Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wpeters on January 05, 2014, 10:39:09 PM
-
Wonder if the first B-24 is pilot wounded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfYMtSiFuIc
-
:salute these brave guys.
Some good footage. Of particular interest is the low 6 and dead six attacks on B17's/24's where tye attacker appears able to place his cannon rounds with relative impunity from 200 down to 50 yards. A marked difference from in game where trying a similar tactic would have your fighter shredded from 1k out :huh
-
:salute these brave guys.
Some good footage. Of particular interest is the low 6 and dead six attacks on B17's/24's where tye attacker appears able to place his cannon rounds with relative impunity from 200 down to 50 yards. A marked difference from in game where trying a similar tactic would have your fighter shredded from 1k out :huh
Yeah, I was thinking that.. Especially the one where the guy in the 110 just sits there, dead six off the b17 for like three minutes. Got me thinking how likely it was for turret gunners to be killed? Tail gunners specifically?
-
i'd think tail end charlie was most vulnerable . not just from direct fire but also from fragments from tail strikes . they were the heaviest losses in Lancaster
.
-
i'd think tail end charlie was most vulnerable . not just from direct fire but also from fragments from tail strikes . they were the heaviest losses in Lancaster
.
Not to mention how many B17's I've seen with the vertical stabilizer all shot to hell. Can't be healthy for lil' charlie...
-
I did a little experiment using b26's in the Dueling Arena. I had an enemy fire mg rounds directly into my b26 tail gunner's position. The result was 9 total b26's shot down and no tail gunner positions ever were damaged only until after the b26's entire tail was shot off did the tail gunner appear on the damage list.
I did this experiment because after numerous times of pouring dozens of hit sprites into a b26 tail gunner's position without any apparent damage. I remember approaching a single b26 and making multiple hits on the tail gunner's position. I then approached at its low 6 thinking the tail gunner has to be damaged, but to no avail I would still get shot down.
-
:salute these brave guys.
Some good footage. Of particular interest is the low 6 and dead six attacks on B17's/24's where tye attacker appears able to place his cannon rounds with relative impunity from 200 down to 50 yards. A marked difference from in game where trying a similar tactic would have your fighter shredded from 1k out :huh
In AH bomber defensive fire is OP. IIRC HiTech said it was intensional to give the bombers a chance in the MA. However, in scenarios it heavily skews the battle in favor of the bombers. In real life the Luftwaffe lost one fighter for every three heavy bombers shot down, and most of those fighter losses would be to the Allied escorts.
-
Two takeaways.
One, I suspect the fighters in AH are far more stable firing platforms than real life.
Two, Most bomber deaths would likely be pilot kills.
On the second point, it is amazing how much damage those bombers took without turning into torches or blowing wings. Knowing the 110 gun packages those 20mm rounds likely tore all the way through the plane fuselage, likely injuring and/or killing most crew.
Isn't it true that more Army Air Corps crewmembers died over Europe than all Marines in the Pacific? Not a slight on the Marines, just a measure of the carnage over the skies of Europe.
boo
:salute
-
But fighters are also still more effective in AH vs bombers than in real life.
As per wikipedia, the Schweinsfurt-Regensburg mission had 376 bombers (escorted for the first leg only) facing 400 Luftwaffe fighters.
In the end, 60 bombers and about 25 German fighters were shot down.
If we transpose that to AH we'd have about 12 formations of B-17s (=36 planes) facing about the same number of fighters. No way such a raid would lose only 6 bombers... the chances are high only 6 would actually reach the factories.
Or battles are much more bloody for all sides.
-
Luche, how many of those 400 Luftwaffe fighters actually made the intercept? In real life most of the 109s fuel (including DT) was used just to get to the intercept. In AH the intercept is usually just a few minutes away after take-off. I agree that the bombers are at a disadvantage in the MA... because they are so easy to intercept. However in scenarios it's different. In real life if you had a 109 or 190 on the tail of your B-17 or B-24 it usually meant death. Back then, getting on the tail of that bomber was the challenge, not pulling the trigger.
-
Notice also, that no B-24s in the film go Zippo-mode when they get a scratch. B-24's in-game flammability is a bit overdone, IMO.
I did a little experiment using b26's in the Dueling Arena. I had an enemy fire mg rounds directly into my b26 tail gunner's position. The result was 9 total b26's shot down and no tail gunner positions ever were damaged only until after the b26's entire tail was shot off did the tail gunner appear on the damage list.
I did this experiment because after numerous times of pouring dozens of hit sprites into a b26 tail gunner's position without any apparent damage. I remember approaching a single b26 and making multiple hits on the tail gunner's position. I then approached at its low 6 thinking the tail gunner has to be damaged, but to no avail I would still get shot down.
Meanwhile, the B-29 tail gunner gets killed easily. Was there armor for the tail gunner in any of the bombers in the real war?
-
most of that footage makes me cringe, as the thought that the guys in bombers were sitting ducks :( :salute to all of them not just Americans, but all of them. I couldn't imagine that
-
most of that footage makes me cringe, as the thought that the guys in bombers were sitting ducks :( :salute to all of them not just Americans, but all of them. I couldn't imagine that
+1. Those guys r some of the bravest men in the war.noing also if you were shot down the least of your worries were the Germans capturing you.
-
Here is the complete Luftwaffe training film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuxpnx4Tic
There are a couple of bombers that flame-ball...
-
Luche, how many of those 400 Luftwaffe fighters actually made the intercept?
I thought about that too. But even when assuming that only half of the fighter force (~200, this mission report (http://www.303rdbg.com/missionreports/078.pdf) speaks of 300 making attacks) came to attack the bombers (so 12 sets B-17s vs 20-30 fighters) in AH, a loss of only 6 bombers would be a astonishing thing - and the bombers in AH usually fly significantly faster than in RL.
Both bombers as well as fighter suffer much higher losses in AH than in real life. This holds true for scenarios as well, unless the bombers go through undetected.
-
Yeah, I was thinking that.. Especially the one where the guy in the 110 just sits there, dead six off the b17 for like three minutes. Got me thinking how likely it was for turret gunners to be killed? Tail gunners specifically?
If I recall correctly, that bomber was being abandoned. It was by it's lonesome. The thing to note though is this; If you look closely, you will see the tail gunner firing on the 110 (there is a puff of smoke from the guns. Hard to see, but it is there). Eventually you see the gunner stop, either from being injured/killed and/or gun problems as you see the tail take a big hit. Not likely for him to leave his position at that time. The ball turret gun is pointed straight down, which if I recall correctly, is the position it would be in when the gunner gets in/out of the gun. So, chances are he wasn't in it when the 110 hits it.
The obvious difference is that our planes have "hp" for each part vs RL counters. If you put x rounds into a part, it will ALWAYS fail and fall off. In RL, if you put that same amount of that same ammo (or heavier) into that part, there is no guarantee that the part will fail, let alone fall off. Example: I recall someone say that when they put around 20(?) rounds of 20mm from a P-38 into the tail of a B-17, it will ALWAYS fall apart. This is simply not so in RL. It's highly unlikely that 20 or so rounds from a 20mm will cause the tail of a B-17 to fall apart. And If you look up photo's of damaged bombers, you will see damage those planes returned home with, that are simply IMPOSSIBLE for our bombers to suffer. We are shot down, period.
Wasn't the WWI Arena a test bed for a more detailed damage system? I THINK the reason it wasn't brought over to WW2 was that it was going to push requirements beyond a chunk of the player base, that and the necessity to update all planes to fly with the new damage system. :headscratch:
-
In game we can <tab> and have all available guns from 3 planes fire at one target. IRL I doubt there was such a concentration unless it was broadcast via radio.
-
Look at how many hours most of you have playing AH...
That should answer the question right there
-
Look at how many hours most of you have playing AH...
That should answer the question right there
I have flown many thousands of hours, I dont seem able to catch and overtake bomber formations, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been able to attack the nose of a bomber. They always seem to be going Mach 3 and climbing like rockets.
It takes me forever to climb to even medium height (20k or so) bombers, whe I do arrive, I struggle to get ahead or above. Others can seem to manage this with alacrity, so I guess it's just something I'm doing wrong :headscratch:
-
I have flown many thousands of hours, I dont seem able to catch and overtake bomber formations, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been able to attack the nose of a bomber. They always seem to be going Mach 3 and climbing like rockets.
It takes me forever to climb to even medium height (20k or so) bombers, whe I do arrive, I struggle to get ahead or above. Others can seem to manage this with alacrity, so I guess it's just something I'm doing wrong :headscratch:
Your choice of interceptor will play a big factor into your intercept, as well as when you spotted the bombers. Depending on when I spot incoming bombers (dar), I will take either the 152 with 100%+DT or the 410 with the BK.5, 100%+DT's. If spotted early, then I can afford to take the 410 as it does take a little bit of time to get up to alt. If late, then the 152 as it will get upto alt fairly quick. I have no major trouble catching and over taking bomber formations, even at 30k in a fully loaded 410 slinging the BK.5. And the 152 is MUCH better vs the 410. I will admit that it is a bit of a pain to over take them at that alt however, and is the reason why I will take the BK.5 when I use the 410. Sit 2k off their tail and enjoy the show. :devil
In the end, you have to be very patient to intercept high altitude bombers. If you want to increase your success, taking aircraft that are suited for high altitude intercept would be the way to go. Will still be a little bit of a pain, but you may notice it being easier. I would suggest the Ta 152 out the door, despite her fickle nature. Another option, I have been told, is the P-47M. I have yet to take the 47M up as an interceptor so I could say how well she does up high.
-
Both bombers as well as fighter suffer much higher losses in AH than in real life. This holds true for scenarios as well, unless the bombers go through undetected.
I'm of the opinion this has to do more with the accuracy and experience of fighter sticks (and the damage modeling to some degree) in Aces High compared to their historical counterparts. This is even more exaggerated since Aces High sticks don't have to worry about fatigue, fear, G loads, and can 'combat' from the comfort of their desk chair.
-
You'll notice a lot of those bombers in LW guncam videos are stragglers, they've fallen out of formation for one reason or another.
-
I'm of the opinion this has to do more with the accuracy and experience of fighter sticks (and the damage modeling to some degree) in Aces High compared to their historical counterparts. This is even more exaggerated since Aces High sticks don't have to worry about fatigue, fear, G loads, and can 'combat' from the comfort of their desk chair.
Biggest being AH sticks have THOUSANDS of hours logged. I personally have flown the 109-k4 in AH more years than WW2 lasted!
I think in one tour midway had 3000 hours, ONE TOUR!
Makes a HUGE difference (except in midways case ;) )
-
Biggest being AH sticks have THOUSANDS of hours logged. I personally have flown the 109-k4 in AH more years than WW2 lasted!
I think in one tour midway had 3000 hours, ONE TOUR!
Makes a HUGE difference (except in midways case ;) )
that is ten hours a day!!!!!!