Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Tinkles on February 23, 2014, 08:38:11 PM
-
I seen this a few days ago and thought I would get some opinions on the components and overall price.
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51-r2/pd.aspx
What caught my attention was the payment plans, instead of 'pay for it all now then receive' you can pay it monthly, giving you time to pay it off while owning it.
Sound too good to be true?
-
The link you provided has so many options available to customize what you order that its hard to tell exactly what components you are interested in. Alienware tends to be overpriced for what is inside the machine however, but they make some of the best looking rigs around imo.
Maybe link or post a little bit more detailed specs for us?
:salute
-
The link you provided has so many options available to customize what you order that its hard to tell exactly what components you are interested in. Alienware tends to be overpriced for what is inside the machine however, but they make some of the best looking rigs around imo.
Maybe link or post a little bit more detailed specs for us?
:salute
Overall what I'm interested in is a rig that doesn't have a bottleneck. That can play the Aces High with no lag with most eye-candy on, and still play games like skyrim, far cry 3 etc. Yet still be top-of-the-line for at least another 5 years, while still being affordable. In terms of affordable, I'm not really on a set budget, just getting a hands on of what to look for.
With a case that has room for the parts (pre-built or I make it), and has room for upgrades in the future.
That's basically what I am looking for.
P.S. Like I said before, the only thing that caught my attention about it, was 2 things, #1 they gave Windows 7 Premium editions with the option of grabbing windows 8 instead if you wanted it. Most other sites offer windows 8 as default only, no windows 7 (I want windows 7). The second thing was they gave options for payment plans for 1 year before interest kicked in, meaning I could purchase it, play on it, while putting a fair chunk of my paycheck to it and paying it off while using it. Instead of saving up and buying it as a 'whole'.
:salute
-
be aware that most "no interest for a year" plans will charge you interest from the beginning if not paid within a year. I just checked dell will charge you interest from the begining if you even owe a dollar over a year.
semp
-
You should check out www.cyberpowerpc.com (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com)
It's a great site, you can basically select whatever components you want and build your own PC online and have it shipped to you fully built and tested.
When you compile all of your components it will tell you what is compatible and what isn't, and tell you how much power it uses and expected FPS.
I built a monster machine on this site and spent about 2000 bucks total. Have been building and buying pc's off their site every few years.
Play around there for a little while and see what you come up with. I think you'll be happier there then alienware.
There is also pre-built stuff on the site to buy if you don't want to bring it together yourself, but that's half of the fun. If you have questions about your build, make a forum account and show the fellas what your interested and they will help you get it right.
You can post your build specs here when your done for us to see as well. :cheers:
-
If you can't pay for it up front, you either don't need it or can't afford it. Those payment plans are for suckers. Save up the money first and then buy. Trust me. Or trust a financial advisor like Dave Ramsey, who will tell you the same thing. Pay cash or don't get it.
-
Tinkles, you can't buy a PC with no lag. Lag happens on the internet regardless of your PC specs.
-
Tinkles, you can't buy a PC with no lag. Lag happens on the internet regardless of your PC specs.
Your hardware can lag, not all lag is internet related, but majority is.
-
Your hardware can lag, not all lag is internet related, but majority is.
My bad, perhaps he was referring to playing offline. :lol
I expect he meant minimal lag.
-
If you can't pay for it up front, you either don't need it or can't afford it. Those payment plans are for suckers. Save up the money first and then buy. Trust me. Or trust a financial advisor like Dave Ramsey, who will tell you the same thing. Pay cash or don't get it.
True enough if you don't have the money to pay for it in the first place but, if you do, then it's wise to use other people's money for as long as possible then pay it off before the interest kicks in. Even in todays low interest rate environment the earnings on that money over time put you ahead. Trust me. I'm in the financial services industry.
It's also why you should use a cash back rewards credit card for most of your monthly purchases but only if you have the resources and discipline to pay it off in full every month.
-
True enough if you don't have the money to pay for it in the first place but, if you do, then it's wise to use other people's money for as long as possible then pay it off before the interest kicks in. Even in todays low interest rate environment the earnings on that money over time put you ahead. Trust me. I'm in the financial services industry.
It's also why you should use a cash back rewards credit card for most of your monthly purchases but only if you have the resources and discipline to pay it off in full every month.
There are a few market research studies out there that show that even if the credit card is paid off in full at the end of the month, overall spending is up to 17% higher when using credit instead of cash. It has nothing to do with interest rates and everything to do with psychology and having opportunity cost slap you in the face with EVERY purchase, right at the register. People who follow your advice deal with opportunity cost up to a month (or even a year in the case of "1 year no payments") later, diluting its effect on spending habits. People who must confront the opportunity cost ramifications at the time of purchase are far less likely to spend that extra little bit, even when they can afford to. 17% is not chump change, but that's the average spending impact even with people who have the discipline and income to pay off their credit cards at the end of each month and don't carry a balance.
This is why banks and stores always pressure people to get the store credit cards and then offer discounts. If the store gives you a 10% discount for using their store credit card, you know damn well that their research shows that people who use their cards buy more than 10% more stuff. The store knows that changing someone from a cash buyer to a card buyer, even a debit card, will net them in excess of 10% more profit from that same customer. Why do you think they put so much pressure on people to use their cards? They know darn well they'll get the money back through increased spending due to the psychological effects of not having to confront the opportunity cost of the purchase until well after the purchase has been made, instead of at the time of purchase.
Those financing deals are for suckers, period. They're so good at explaining why it's a "good deal" that even "financial experts" have bought into it. Its funny, the MBA types (I have an MBA btw) know exactly what scam they're running when they offer those financing deals, because the fundamentals of that sort of thing is part of the syllabus. At least, my MBA course had enough of that to let me see exactly what's going on there. People are horrible about understanding opportunity cost when it isn't an immediate decision. That's the scam, and the big stores and banks are raking in the bucks every time a financial expert recommends using those financing "good deals" because of the psych effects it has on even financially secure and disciplined people.
-
I'm a pretty financially responsible kind of guy... I wanted to buy a corvette about 12 years ago, but would have had to finance part of it so I waited. Some pay raises kicked in, and just a couple of years later I had enough cash to get that corvette, and suddenly it looked like a waste of money. When I had only $20k to put down on a new vette (at 5 year 1% financing and no interest the first year), the opportunity cost looked like $20k, which at my salary level could be made back in a year, no problem. When I had $70k saved up to get the vette, suddenly the opportunity cost thought process was holy crap look at all these other much better things I can do with $70k, no way I'm going to dump it into a stupid car.
Everyone gets bit by this. It's why Dave Ramsey almost always starts off with "sell the car", when people in financial trouble have expensive cars or big car loans, even when they have very low interest rate on the car loan. If you want to be rich, act like rich people. They're not financing their cars or computers just because of a low interest rate or deferred payment, and those rich people didn't do that before they were rich either.
I know this is sort of off topic, but the OP was discussing financing deals, and the answer there is that the company is offering those financing deals because THEY benefit from it, not the buyer. They know darn well that buyers will act more sensibly if they pay cash, up front. Deferring the payments leads to spending more, and the companies offering those payment plans know this because they hire MBAs instead of personal financial advisors :devil
-
Eagl,
Thats some of the best advice I've ever heard on these boards,and I understand when you have saved up and have the cash that just got to have car,boat,plane,etc. really makes you think twice before parting with those hard saved dollars!
About the only place I'd break from this is in buying a house but unless you're born with a silver spoon most people just have no choice but to borrow. I was lucky with this,my wife is a banker,or was and she got great rates and we paid the mortgasge off weekly! Ya weekly,it's tough to get that first month under your belt because you end up paying 2 payments that first month but after that it's really no different than paying off monthly! Well except the amertization goes from 25 to 13 years..... :O,then if you can make just a small payment on the principle,usually allowed on the aniversery,you can cut that further! and save about 1/2 the cost of your mortgage.
This can be done on loans or CC payments,though you should check your regulations closely but if you make a payment even just 2 or 3 days early you can save considerably. This is a major reason for direct pay and auto banking,the banks make huge profits from people not understanding all the facts and there rights!
I'm not rich by any standard,but I owe nothing and have a couple of bucks in the bank for a rainy day or that just have to have Vet!!!! :devil
:salute
PS: Like you Eagl I cant part with it! :rofl
-
What caught my attention was the payment plans, instead of 'pay for it all now then receive' you can pay it monthly, giving you time to pay it off while owning it.
Sound too good to be true?
It's called "financing" Tinkles, and while it may look too good to be true, the truth is that money, like everything else, has a price. What you pay for with financing is time utility - i.e., you can have something now but pay for it later. As for that part about paying: multiply the payment times the number of payments to know the total nominal cost of borrowing. I say "nominal" because future money is worth something less than money now, but that's a topic for some time later in your life.
My advice: don't carry a lot of debt in your life - instead carry a lot of cash.
-
Morfiend
You're right, the exception to the cash-only rule is the house mortgage. You can minimize the impact on your life by going with a 15 yr mortgage, and again accepting the hard reality that if you can't make the payment for a 15 yr mortgage, then maybe you need to wait a bit longer to build up the down payment, or pick a smaller house.
That said, I recently had to both buy a new house and refinance another house I own and am having trouble selling. To make that work, I did the re-fi at 15 years and the new purchase at 30 years. I'm putting whatever I can budget against the 30 yr mortgage to get it closer to that 15 yr term, but I also know that I broke a basic rule of thumb. By "the rules", I would have been better off renting a smaller house until I settled the old house by selling it or getting it stabilized as a rental, and only then buying the new house. But I landed in Las Vegas at the very bottom of a huge housing market crash, and gambling mentality is so freaking infectious that I couldn't resist buying at the low point. So I'm stuck with 2 mortgages and my renters just moved out. So now I'm double glad I never got the vette, haha.
Well, there is one other exception to cash only... If you can't keep food on the table or the power/water on in the house, you do what you gotta do including feeding the kids on credit and just not paying off the CC until you figure something out or increase income or sell everything non-essential, move to a cheaper place, etc etc. But someone feeding their kids on credit probably shouldn't own any car but a $500 beater, shouldn't own a TV or smartphone, shouldn't have cable tv service, etc. Lots of "essentials" really aren't, and those should be ditched long before it gets to that point.
-
My current job involves, in part, studying people in really poor conditions... Some of these places have zero electronics other than a single phone and one solar panel to charge it. The only vehicle they own or share with other families is one beat up pickup truck or tractor, and everything else they own is made out of mud, sticks, and goat hair. They seem to survive both harsh summers and bitterly cold/snowy winters just fine with what they have. The American concept of 'poverty' would be considered unbelievably wealthy to these people, and strangely enough many of them don't seem to want any part of our way of life. Maybe they have a point.
-
My current job involves, in part, studying people in really poor conditions... Some of these places have zero electronics other than a single phone and one solar panel to charge it. The only vehicle they own or share with other families is one beat up pickup truck or tractor, and everything else they own is made out of mud, sticks, and goat hair. They seem to survive both harsh summers and bitterly cold/snowy winters just fine with what they have. The American concept of 'poverty' would be considered unbelievably wealthy to these people, and strangely enough many of them don't seem to want any part of our way of life. Maybe they have a point.
I dont find that so strange,they have a simple but meaningfull life and thats a good thing in my eyes!
We get force fed so much stuff,keeping up with the Kardashians has us running around chasing our tails! I suppose if I was to be honest I'd have to admit to living like that at 1 time but I had an unfortunate accident and was just days away from loosing everything I had worked for.
Then it was over and things got much better for me but comming so close to loosing everything changed me and I vowed to never be in that position again! So I cleared all debt,paid off the house and only bought a couple toys for my kid!
I'm comfortable,my house is just the right size for the two of us and we dont "need" more!
:salute
-
I think many people need to have that moment or event in their life that changes how they look at a lifestyle of "things". My parents never bought anything on credit and gave me a great example of how to live debt free, and I wasn't doing too bad on my own, but my ah-ha moment was when I bought quicken one year and entered in a year's worth of income and expenses, and realized I'd spent about $20k on computer parts that year. Oops. I plead youth and ignorance, your honor :) It was $300 for a new cpu whenever AMD or Intel came out with the next generation, $250 for the latest graphics card every 6 months, a new mobo to get the benefits of a faster memory controller, the latest sound card, a fast intel NIC because my cheapo realtek network adaptor *might* be adding latency, etc etc. Every purchase made sense at the time but it added up to a stupidly huge amount of money. Luckily I was young unmarried and had zero debt at the time, otherwise I could have been in a world of hurt financially if I'd done all that on credit. Every one of those purchases was on a credit card that I paid off in full at the end of the month, and no one month's bill looked unusually large, until I added it up at the end of the year. Holy crap.
Ever since then, I have a "tech junk" budget that I try to stick to, and I buy it on a debit card not a credit card so it is reflected in the checking account balance that same day. It is enough that I could, if I wanted or needed to, buy a new mid-range computer every year. But I don't and haven't bought a whole new computer in about 4 years, so I always have wiggle room in my tech junk budget to get one neat extra every year. This year I splurged on an ipad mini, and recycled old parts to build up a computer for my kids instead of coming up with a completely new build, and I still have about $600 budgeted this year for tech junk in case anything breaks.
-
eagl I dont think he's asking about economic lessons. he's just asking about computer parts. it's his choice how to pay for it.
semp
-
I seen this a few days ago and thought I would get some opinions on the components and overall price.
I'd buy this:
Inspiron Desktop 3000 with i5-4440 processor ($500). Note that this is *not* the "Small Desktop" version but the normal-sized "Desktop" version.
GeForce GTX 650 Ti graphics card: $130 from Newegg.com -- or GTX 650 Ti Boost if you can get one for about $160 from Newegg.com, TigerDirect.com, or BestBuy.com.
Seasonic 600 W power supply: $65 (or some other reputable 600 W power supply, maybe Thermaltake, from Newegg.com)
total = $695
This will run AH very well for (if history is any judge) years. If you find some years down the road that it isn't sufficient for what you want, but another $700 setup at that time.
In my opinion, this method of buying a $700 system every several years instead of a more-expensive system less frequently will save you money and provide better performance over time. That's what I do. My current system is like this (Dell based, graphics card from Newegg, etc.) but bought for $700 several years ago. So, it is significantly less capable than the $700 system outlined above, yet I fly AH with everything maxed out except for the "local reflections" or whatever it is called, where I have the slider minimized; and I get 60 fps everywhere, including in thick clouds (which I use in special events at times).
-
eagl I dont think he's asking about economic lessons. he's just asking about computer parts. it's his choice how to pay for it.
semp
No. He said this:
What caught my attention was the payment plans, instead of 'pay for it all now then receive' you can pay it monthly, giving you time to pay it off while owning it.
Sound too good to be true?
Hence the economic lesson being completely on topic, since that's the question that was actually asked.
You could have figured that out yourself but you chose to ignore it. Hitting too close to home? Or maybe you just wanted to be the first to actually go off topic in the thread, and just couldn't resist trying to be snippy and/or witty? You picked a bad day to threadjack and/or go trolling. Bugger off and let the adults discuss the merits of buying crap you can't afford, or at least be quiet and listen and learn something.
-
There are a few market research studies out there that show that even if the credit card is paid off in full at the end of the month, overall spending is up to 17% higher when using credit instead of cash. It has nothing to do with interest rates and everything to do with psychology and having opportunity cost slap you in the face with EVERY purchase, right at the register. People who follow your advice deal with opportunity cost up to a month (or even a year in the case of "1 year no payments") later, diluting its effect on spending habits. People who must confront the opportunity cost ramifications at the time of purchase are far less likely to spend that extra little bit, even when they can afford to. 17% is not chump change, but that's the average spending impact even with people who have the discipline and income to pay off their credit cards at the end of each month and don't carry a balance.
There's also an opportunity cost in not using other people's money. If the simple use of credit causes you to spend 17% more that you would have otherwise then you shouldn't use credit. For a fiscally responsible individual the use of no interest and rewards credit can provide at least modest gains.
Credit companies don't really care if the consumer spends more or if they don't (if they do that's a bonus for them), they make their money by charging the retailer every time you make a purchase on credit. A 17% increase in purchases is miniscule on a net margin basis in comparison to the charges to the retailer.
If you want to be rich, act like rich people. They're not financing their cars or computers just because of a low interest rate or deferred payment, and those rich people didn't do that before they were rich either.
Most rich people aren't using credit to make nominal purchases yet it doesn't mean they don't use credit. The scales are just different. They use other people's money all the time. Normally the people they borrow from are called "shareholders" or "bondholders" and a great many of them got rich by leveraging their businesses.
Well, there is one other exception to cash only... If you can't keep food on the table or the power/water on in the house, you do what you gotta do including feeding the kids on credit and just not paying off the CC until you figure something out or increase income or sell everything non-essential, move to a cheaper place, etc etc. But someone feeding their kids on credit probably shouldn't own any car but a $500 beater, shouldn't own a TV or smartphone, shouldn't have cable tv service, etc. Lots of "essentials" really aren't, and those should be ditched long before it gets to that point.
OK, this one takes the cake as the worst financial "advice" I've ever heard. I agree with sell everything and spend nothing on anything non essential but you'de actually encourage a poor person to dig themselves into a hole they're likely never to be able to get out of? Most people, regardless of social status have friends and family. There are social programs designed to keep people from starving. There are many other options and most people in that situation won't be eligable for credit to begin with.
Finally, I'm familiar with Dave Ramsey. While I'm sure he's helped thousands to get out of and control debt I wouldn't qualify that as a "trusted financial advisor" unless I'm simply unfamiliar with his work in helping people accumulate and structure assets, minimize taxes, protect income, finance businesses, protect families and possesions, protect assets in old age, establish an estate plan and the many many other things that "trusted financial advisors" do.
I'm sure you're a smart guy but I'm also sure you're not an expert in personal or business finance based on your prolific posts here. Perhaps you should concentrate on your areas of expertise and put your MBA to better use.
-
... and the RACE TO THE BOTTOM IS ON!!!
-
:O
Eagl did you take Bustr's coffee ? :lol
My original intentions were to get the computer then pay it off before the interest kicked in. Instead of just paying 20-50 dollars a month like they would want me to. The marketing behind it is quite simple, you pay little increments until you owe them nothing. However, the increments are small enough so that you cross the 'interest line' and owe them another '19.99-29.99%' in interest fees. If I understood it correctly ;)
However, I already decided to go a different route.
I am extremely grateful for all the quality information in this thread, I did indeed take it to heart and learn from it.
I feel like the kid raised by a village. :lol
:salute
-
+1 to all the great advice in this thread
-
I'm going to add one last thing to this conversation.
You're right, the exception to the cash-only rule is the house mortgage. You can minimize the impact on your life by going with a 15 yr mortgage, and again accepting the hard reality that if you can't make the payment for a 15 yr mortgage, then maybe you need to wait a bit longer to build up the down payment, or pick a smaller house.
In the recent past you could get a 15 year mortgage for under 3% and a 30 year mortgage for under 4%. Both are slightly over those percentages now but for the sake of discussion I'll use those interest rates.
To make things easy I'll assume an average person in a 25% tax bracket. That means with their mortgage interest deduction on their taxes at the start of the loan (as only the interest is decuctable) their effective interest rates are 2.25% and 3.00% respectively for a fifteen and thirty year morgage.
Over the past thirty years the S&P 500 index has gained, on average, 6.5% per year. Assuming you're invested in a tax sensitive investment and are a buy and hold investor your earnings are subject only to a 15% long term capital gains tax for an effective return of 5.5%.
By taking out a 30 year mortgage and investing the money you'de be paying to reduce that to 15 years you'd gain 2.25% on that money after taxes, or double the amount you'd save by paying it off in 15 years.
The caveat to this is that paying off the mortgage guarantees you a 2.25% savings where investments are variable and pose a risk of loss. Over the past thirty years inflation has averaged just under 3% per year compounding the loss in early repayment since inflation compounds where mortgage interest doesn't. In fact, in the recent past taking out a mortgage has provided a positive spread on the money borrowed vs inflation (literally, the banks/government were paying you to borrow).
The only way that early repayment makes sense in todays interst rate environment is if you're ultra conservative and can't stomach market volitility, if it's an emotional or economic decision such as wanting the mortgage to be repaid prior to retirement or, in some cases, if you've crossed the line where mortgage interest no longer provides a meaningful tax deduction.
-
Bald,
I dont doubt your figures but unfortnately where I live the interest on your mortgage isnt tax deductable so in that case it's in your best interest{pun intended} to reduce the amertization to as short a period as possible. This only applied to myself and I wasnt suggesting other do the same as I did or do.
Oh and 25% bracket,most here would jump for joy to be in that bracket but thats another discussion for another day! :rofl
:salute
-
Bald,
I dont doubt your figures but unfortnately where I live the interest on your mortgage isnt tax deductable so in that case it's in your best interest{pun intended} to reduce the amertization to as short a period as possible. This only applied to myself and I wasnt suggesting other do the same as I did or do.
Oh and 25% bracket,most here would jump for joy to be in that bracket but thats another discussion for another day! :rofl
:salute
Yes, well the deduction only reduces the effective borrowing rate. At question is whether inflation outpaces the effective rate on your borrowing. If it does, you should hold the debt since every year devalues that principal. Fact: inflation favors the debtor. I suspect inflation outpaces mortgages rates right now despite the reported CPI metrics. Why? because the FEd doesn't like to report higher inflation (political pressure), and, as with any metric, there are a number of ways to game it. For example, the Fed can substitute "like value/use" goods to the preexisting basket with which they measure CPI. There are also a variety of layers, as with unemployment (consider that the U6 counts disaffecteds while the typically reported rate does not) - the same applies to reported inflation.
Do a little experiment if you like: go get commodity price data and check any commodity's trace against the various periods of quantitative easing we've had. If you believe that 1 commodity can fluctuate due to specific variation, do 10 of 'em. The result will be quite enlightening. I did this experiment, I want to say, around the March 2010 round. Guess what commodities do when you print currency..?
So, when I told the kid not to hold debt but rather cash, I could've been more clear. Better to hold assets that hedge you against a nutjob with a printing press. THe object lesson is the same, though. Besides, if he's going to lay out for a computer, why not get one that can run more than one OS? I've got a whole network of those badboys - and I run AH on the damned oldest one using windows, no less. Mac... the other red meat.
-
Please, PLEASE don't stop participating in this thread....................... ..........................
Did I say that I love you guys?
Y'all can shoot me & my Spitty down all the time.................just don't stop adding meaningful conversation to this thread!
I didn't achieve a MBA & so I need all the help I can get!
:D :aok :salute
-
The only company I'd recommend is Digital Storm in CA. . I'd never buy another computer from anywhere else. Their support is that good.
I checked out Alienware. far to much $ for what you get. And Dell blows. Totally blows.
-
And Dell blows. Totally blows.
Having bought hundreds of them in my lifetime (including for mission-critical machine control), I disagree. :aok
-
I agree Brooke, although I think I understand where Rich is going with that - some of their "you build it menu" type home PC's are made from some substandard parts by today's standards at least, and aren't a good bang for the $ compared to building it yourself from Newegg or some place like that.
That said, my company has used the Dell line of "Rugged" Laptops for a while, and they have been absolutely bulletproof. Almost literally - our PSD and Embassy security division in Afghanistan uses them, as does our maritime protection detail guys and supervisors - the IT department was very, very impressed with these little jobbies. They are in service in some of the harshest climates around, cold during the night, hot during the day, and while at sea, subjected to all kinds of water particulates both airborne and otherwise.
-
Having bought hundreds of them in my lifetime (including for mission-critical machine control), I disagree. :aok
Have you ever thought how much price premium you've spent for the Dell label in your lifetime? I bet not :x
-
I wouldn't trust anyone claiming to be a financial advisor who is not a squillionaire living on a private island :old:
-
Have you ever thought how much price premium you've spent for the Dell label in your lifetime? I bet not :x
Yes, I have thought about that. Buying Dells the way I buy them saved me lots of money. That's why I did it. I've been comparing and buying computers since the early 1980's. I've bought and used many non-PC types (Ohio Scientific, TRS-80, PET, Sun workstations of various sorts, NeXT, Apollo, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, the first Macs and later Macs, some CP/M computers, HP workstations, DEC workstations) and many PC types (IBM, PC's Limited (precursor to Dell), Gateway, Dell, Compaq, Grid, build it yourself, ones built by local computer shops, HP, and probably some I have forgotten, like Packard Bell or AT&T or Honeywell or something like that, PC Brand, etc.). In experimenting with lots of different brands, I have been most happy with Dell (hence the reason I stayed with them for many years after finding that out experimentally). If I were more happy with another brand or with build it yourself, I'd be doing that instead.
There are several ways I think about cost of a PC: how much it costs initially to obtain it, how much it costs for upkeep, and reliability (or more precisely the costs when there are reliability problems or upkeep hassles). Dells (the ones I buy) are inexpensive for the performance they deliver, typically less costly than a build-it-yourself of comparable performance; have the lowest maintenance cost of any other route or brand I've tried; and likewise have very low failure rates.
-
Morfiend
You're right, the exception to the cash-only rule is the house mortgage. You can minimize the impact on your life by going with a 15 yr mortgage, and again accepting the hard reality that if you can't make the payment for a 15 yr mortgage, then maybe you need to wait a bit longer to build up the down payment, or pick a smaller house.
That said, I recently had to both buy a new house and refinance another house I own and am having trouble selling. To make that work, I did the re-fi at 15 years and the new purchase at 30 years. I'm putting whatever I can budget against the 30 yr mortgage to get it closer to that 15 yr term, but I also know that I broke a basic rule of thumb. By "the rules", I would have been better off renting a smaller house until I settled the old house by selling it or getting it stabilized as a rental, and only then buying the new house. But I landed in Las Vegas at the very bottom of a huge housing market crash, and gambling mentality is so freaking infectious that I couldn't resist buying at the low point. So I'm stuck with 2 mortgages and my renters just moved out. So now I'm double glad I never got the vette, haha.
Well, there is one other exception to cash only... If you can't keep food on the table or the power/water on in the house, you do what you gotta do including feeding the kids on credit and just not paying off the CC until you figure something out or increase income or sell everything non-essential, move to a cheaper place, etc etc. But someone feeding their kids on credit probably shouldn't own any car but a $500 beater, shouldn't own a TV or smartphone, shouldn't have cable tv service, etc. Lots of "essentials" really aren't, and those should be ditched long before it gets to that point.
Wow I am just a retired grubby old GI but I have lived your advice all my life. Total amount of personal debt is about 30k on a 4 bedroom house. I just purchased. I have two cars. A 2012 Sentra I bought used paid for in cash < try getting a car salesman to quit talking payments some day >. and a 69 Camaro I will probably sell and add the money to my little girls college fund. My oldest graduated two summers ago from Oregon State with a total of $4,000.00 in student debt. She lived at home did some part time work and my Dad and I helped with the rest. Some people in my family say I am tight enough to sit on a quarter and pull a booger out of GW's nose.
-
I wouldn't trust anyone claiming to be a financial advisor who is not a squillionaire living on a private island :old:
I am an engineer first, but my beloved employer ( Ford ) sponsored an MBA for me last century. One project I did during that study, just for laughs and a grade, was a look at the correlation between mutual fund performance and mutual fund loads. The answer: there is none.
Therefore, I'd recommend you not even trust the "squillionaire", especially given some of the notoriously bad advice given some of those clowns ( consider Buffett, his public pronouncements, if followed, could cost a fool quite a bit).
The best thing to do is diversify and, in those cases in which you do assume some specific risk, do so based on your own thinking and information. That's what I do anyway.
Forget analysts ratings, too. Most of those guys are twenty something recent graduates whose experience in anything like a real industry is near nil.
-
Yes, I have thought about that. Buying Dells the way I buy them saved me lots of money. That's why I did it. I've been comparing and buying computers since the early 1980's. I've bought and used many non-PC types (Ohio Scientific, TRS-80, PET, Sun workstations of various sorts, NeXT, Apollo, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, the first Macs and later Macs, some CP/M computers, HP workstations, DEC workstations) and many PC types (IBM, PC's Limited (precursor to Dell), Gateway, Dell, Compaq, Grid, build it yourself, ones built by local computer shops, HP, and probably some I have forgotten, like Packard Bell or AT&T or Honeywell or something like that, PC Brand, etc.). In experimenting with lots of different brands, I have been most happy with Dell (hence the reason I stayed with them for many years after finding that out experimentally). If I were more happy with another brand or with build it yourself, I'd be doing that instead.
There are several ways I think about cost of a PC: how much it costs initially to obtain it, how much it costs for upkeep, and reliability (or more precisely the costs when there are reliability problems or upkeep hassles). Dells (the ones I buy) are inexpensive for the performance they deliver, typically less costly than a build-it-yourself of comparable performance; have the lowest maintenance cost of any other route or brand I've tried; and likewise have very low failure rates.
So you're actually claiming with an honest face that after Dell puts their profit on top of it, their ready built machine is cheaper for you than self build? :)
Dell and other OEMs commonly use 6-7 year old hardware in their setups, not forgetting the nice little proprietary power cables etc. nice stuff.
-
So you're actually claiming with an honest face that after Dell puts their profit on top of it, their ready built machine is cheaper for you than self build? :)
Dell and other OEMs commonly use 6-7 year old hardware in their setups, not forgetting the nice little proprietary power cables etc. nice stuff.
Yes. I've priced it out in the past (figuring assembly labor at zero), and the Dell was cheaper. Of course, pricing changes all of the time, so that calculation can change over time. But if you figure in labor (which you must if this is done in a business as opposed to hobby use), that skews it a lot. Also, in a business setting, custom-built just doesn't cut it over 5+ years. Personnel moves on, records get misplaced, etc., so long-term maintenance of such machines becomes a hassle. It's always easy to deal with that with Dell. You put in your tag #, and everything you need to know is there. Also, they keep up to date even with computers 5 years old or more. The reliability has been awesome as well. I use these machines for tasks where a single machine crash can cost thousands of dollars in lost raw material for product and a week delay in products that are time critical for customers.
The Dell machines I buy are not 6-7 year old hardware. Dell does not use proprietary cables.
-
A current example of Dell vs. build it yourself.
Dell Inspiron 3000 desktop
i5-4440
Windows 8.1
8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1 TB HD
DVD+/-RW
case, KB, mouse
cost = $550
This setup is much better than my current setup (which is a Dell i5-2400 system that cost me $500 over 2 years ago), but my current system runs AH at 60 fps with everything maxed out except the local-reflections slider (or whatever it is called), which is set at none. That includes in heavy clouds, and I have maximum anti-aliasing forced on for my graphics card (an nVidia GTX 550 Ti). This is the Dell setup I'd buy today if I were buying a new computer today.
Estimate for build it yourself for such a system using near lowest-end estimates from equipment at Newegg, except as noted.
i5-4440 $195
Windows 8.1 64-bit OEM $100
8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM $100 (crucial.com)
1 TB HD $60
DVD+/-RW $20
case $40
KB $15
mouse $10
300 W PSU $25
motherboard LGA 1150 $80
total = $645. That's counting labor to decide on which particular parts to buy and to assemble it at $0/hour. It takes at least a few hours to shop for the parts and to assemble, and if you put that in at $15/hour, you are at $700 for this system.
Please feel free to correct me if you think that I have overestimated the cost of any of the build-it-yourself system's components or to refigure it all based on what pricing you think you can get. My guess is that it will still be challenging to beat the Dell price by a significant amount, especially if you count the labor as anything more than $0/hour.
-
The Dell machines I buy are not 6-7 year old hardware. Dell does not use proprietary cables.
Are you sure? It's not that long ago that I saw a 80 gigabyte hdd in a Dell setup :D You can't buy that stuff retail anywhere for like 10 years. Large OEMs buy huge mass quantities of hardware and then they sell the antique in basic business setups for years after. What looks like a sweet deal becomes pretty rotten once you really look into the hardware setup.
And Dell used to have reverse power pin order in their motherboards which meant that if you replaced the PSU with a new one, you fried your mobo and who knows what else. Same happened if you connected that Dell PSU to a regular mobo. Same connector, reverse cable order. Sweet.
-
Are you sure?
We've been over this before. Dell does not use proprietary connectors, Sam I Am. They do not use them in a boat. They do not use them with a goat. They do not use them Sam I Am. They do not use proprietary connectors. ;)
I think that your information is about a decade out of date with regard to Dells.
-
I'm a pretty financially responsible kind of guy... I wanted to buy a corvette about 12 years ago, but would have had to finance part of it so I waited. Some pay raises kicked in, and just a couple of years later I had enough cash to get that corvette, and suddenly it looked like a waste of money. When I had only $20k to put down on a new vette (at 5 year 1% financing and no interest the first year), the opportunity cost looked like $20k, which at my salary level could be made back in a year, no problem. When I had $70k saved up to get the vette, suddenly the opportunity cost thought process was holy crap look at all these other much better things I can do with $70k, no way I'm going to dump it into a stupid car.
Everyone gets bit by this. It's why Dave Ramsey almost always starts off with "sell the car", when people in financial trouble have expensive cars or big car loans, even when they have very low interest rate on the car loan. If you want to be rich, act like rich people. They're not financing their cars or computers just because of a low interest rate or deferred payment, and those rich people didn't do that before they were rich either.
I know this is sort of off topic, but the OP was discussing financing deals, and the answer there is that the company is offering those financing deals because THEY benefit from it, not the buyer. They know darn well that buyers will act more sensibly if they pay cash, up front. Deferring the payments leads to spending more, and the companies offering those payment plans know this because they hire MBAs instead of personal financial advisors :devil
My wife occasionally says "I'd like to go out and spend it like I have it."
To which I have to remind her that the people that have it. Usually dont spend it like they have it. Thats why they have it
-
eagl I dont think he's asking about economic lessons. he's just asking about computer parts. it's his choice how to pay for it.
semp
In that case for about $1,000 He can build a system himself that will last him at least 5 years. Thats how old my best bang for buck Intel E8400 system is (built in Sept 2008) and still going pretty strong.
If memory serves correct Alienware often goes for twice that
-
A current example of Dell vs. build it yourself.
Dell Inspiron 3000 desktop
i5-4440
Windows 8.1
8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1 TB HD
DVD+/-RW
case, KB, mouse
cost = $550
This setup is much better than my current setup (which is a Dell i5-2400 system that cost me $500 over 2 years ago), but my current system runs AH at 60 fps with everything maxed out except the local-reflections slider (or whatever it is called), which is set at none. That includes in heavy clouds, and I have maximum anti-aliasing forced on for my graphics card (an nVidia GTX 550 Ti). This is the Dell setup I'd buy today if I were buying a new computer today.
Estimate for build it yourself for such a system using near lowest-end estimates from equipment at Newegg, except as noted.
i5-4440 $195
Windows 8.1 64-bit OEM $100
8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM $100 (crucial.com)
1 TB HD $60
DVD+/-RW $20
case $40
KB $15
mouse $10
300 W PSU $25
motherboard LGA 1150 $80
total = $645. That's counting labor to decide on which particular parts to buy and to assemble it at $0/hour. It takes at least a few hours to shop for the parts and to assemble, and if you put that in at $15/hour, you are at $700 for this system.
Please feel free to correct me if you think that I have overestimated the cost of any of the build-it-yourself system's components or to refigure it all based on what pricing you think you can get. My guess is that it will still be challenging to beat the Dell price by a significant amount, especially if you count the labor as anything more than $0/hour.
Often comparisons like those arent apples to apples. For that extra $150 you can often get better individual parts. Not all parts with similar surface specs are the same
-
Often comparisons like those arent apples to apples. For that extra $150 you can often get better individual parts. Not all parts with similar surface specs are the same
My comparison is apples to apples. That's the whole point of it. It is comparing what it would cost to build one's own equivalent to that Dell system and finding that the Dell is cheaper.
"For that extra $150 you can often get better individual parts." I'm perplexed by that. The build it yourself system costs more than the Dell, not the other way around. Do you mean that the parts I list for the build-it-yourself system could be better than what I list and still cost $645? I picked all of the cheapest stuff on Newegg. If you pick better stuff, it will likely cost even more than what I list. But that's beside the point anyway as I was already assuming that it's fine stuff (even if I was picking stuff so cheap that it isn't fine stuff). I was being obliging in favor of the build-it approach, and still the Dell is cheaper.
My thesis:
-- You can't beat the price of that Dell system.
-- That Dell system gives me the performance I'm after in AH today and likely for a couple years to come, so I don't desire to pay for more performance or features that don't matter to me.
-- Dell systems for me have had perfect reliability, so you can at best match it, not beat it there.
-
I seen this a few days ago and thought I would get some opinions on the components and overall price.
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51-r2/pd.aspx
What caught my attention was the payment plans, instead of 'pay for it all now then receive' you can pay it monthly, giving you time to pay it off while owning it.
Sound too good to be true?
If you haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, don't do it. We used the X51 for a trade show (replacing the Aurora R3s we used to use) and at least a quarter of the X51s suffered failures from over heating.
ack-ack
-
If you haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, don't do it. We used the X51 for a trade show (replacing the Aurora R3s we used to use) and at least a quarter of the X51s suffered failures from over heating.
ack-ack
He didn't get that one. He is waiting for 3 or so months and purchasing something else last we talked.
-
Yes, well the deduction only reduces the effective borrowing rate. At question is whether inflation outpaces the effective rate on your borrowing. If it does, you should hold the debt since every year devalues that principal. Fact: inflation favors the debtor. I suspect inflation outpaces mortgages rates right now despite the reported CPI metrics. Why? because the FEd doesn't like to report higher inflation (political pressure), and, as with any metric, there are a number of ways to game it. For example, the Fed can substitute "like value/use" goods to the preexisting basket with which they measure CPI. There are also a variety of layers, as with unemployment (consider that the U6 counts disaffecteds while the typically reported rate does not) - the same applies to reported inflation.
Do a little experiment if you like: go get commodity price data and check any commodity's trace against the various periods of quantitative easing we've had. If you believe that 1 commodity can fluctuate due to specific variation, do 10 of 'em. The result will be quite enlightening. I did this experiment, I want to say, around the March 2010 round. Guess what commodities do when you print currency..?
So, when I told the kid not to hold debt but rather cash, I could've been more clear. Better to hold assets that hedge you against a nutjob with a printing press. THe object lesson is the same, though. Besides, if he's going to lay out for a computer, why not get one that can run more than one OS? I've got a whole network of those badboys - and I run AH on the damned oldest one using windows, no less. Mac... the other red meat.
I dont disagree but you fail to remember dont live in the US and have different rules for taxation and the like. I was able to reduce my mortgage from 25 years to 15 simply by paying the mortgage on a weekly basis not once a month! As I said the first month you do this can be tough because you must pay the whole month and then the first weeks payment and depending on your payments some can find this most difficult.
I also took advantage of the fact I could pay up to 10% of the principle on the aniversery date of the mortgage,I didnt always make the whole 10% payment but even a couple thousand nocks down the principle and the interest owing! I was looking at paying mostly interest for 25 years and after it's all said and done it would amount to 3 times the cost of the house if I would have paid as my bank would have liked me to.
We dont get to writeoff interest on the mortgage like you can in the US so it's in most Canadians best INTEREST to shorten the time they pay on their mortgage.
AS always YMMV.
:salute
-
He didn't get that one. He is waiting for 3 or so months and purchasing something else last we talked.
That's correct.
I do my research well before hand :D