Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: save on March 01, 2014, 07:51:02 PM

Title: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 01, 2014, 07:51:02 PM
Why make the GV game more cartoonish than it already is, and allow for in-field repair, whereas a damaged aeroplanes has to exit to get their damage fixed ?
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 06:25:21 AM
Why make the GV game more cartoonish than it already is, and allow for in-field repair, whereas a damaged aeroplanes has to exit to get their damage fixed ?

I agree it is incredibly cartoonish. However the GVers will cry blood tears and cut on themselves if it's removed. My opinion is that the better compromise would be to introduce a thirty second delay much like when you land an aircraft on the rearm pad.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Bruv119 on March 02, 2014, 06:29:11 AM
I agree with Save for once.    :eek:

People like Erwin are ruining the game by parking Wirbs in spawns or on hills near furballs and getting supplies.   This then means we have to egg him and get called names.   
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: FLOOB on March 02, 2014, 08:03:24 AM
I would agree if shrubery didnt flip tanks over.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 08:09:28 AM
I would agree if shrubery didnt flip tanks over.

Don't run into the shrubbery.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Tilt on March 02, 2014, 08:22:09 AM
It's far too quick..... The 30 seconds required on the re arm pad should also apply in the field IMO.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: RotBaron on March 02, 2014, 08:26:49 AM
I agree it is incredibly cartoonish. However the GVers will cry blood tears and cut on themselves if it's removed. My opinion is that the better compromise would be to introduce a thirty second delay much like when you land an aircraft on the rearm pad.


Would you like your world's biggest violin for that whine Revo?
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 08:44:33 AM

Would you like your world's biggest violin for that whine Revo?


We're asking for changes to be made to a broken mechanic. You want ENY limits removed so you can club whoever has the fewest number of defenders with perk rides and Runstangs.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: atlau on March 02, 2014, 09:15:20 AM
Let sups right a flipped tank and give them more ammo.. but the instant repair has always seemed ridiculous to me.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 02, 2014, 09:33:44 AM
Have you resupplied a tank with 75-120 mm shells through the hatches ?
I have many time's.
Its a PITA, specially the rounds stored low, off the ready-shelf, the 30 sec's is an absolute minimum.


Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Chalenge on March 02, 2014, 10:16:27 AM
You are complaining that a game is a game?  :lol
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
You are complaining that a game is a game?  :lol

The game mechanic is broken.  :)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 02, 2014, 12:23:17 PM
Have you resupplied a tank with 75-120 mm shells through the hatches ?
I have many time's.
Its a PITA, specially the rounds stored low, off the ready-shelf, the 30 sec's is an absolute minimum.




I have. Eight years as a tanker in the Marines. I have also experienced many times the recovery operation in turret deep mud and throwing track in sand and fixing it in sand.  So I also know the difference between real world tanking and what this game is. I will assume that the current set up is meant to allow the GVers to keep themselves in the fight by supporting each other. This means someone has to stop tanking for a spell and get in a jeep or a half-track and selflessly run supplies out to the cripple much the same way we waited for the M88 to show up from battalion and drag us out of the muck.

I believe the point Hi-Tech is making with this arrangement is that teamwork pays off. For the realists in here I will have to say when the day comes that a tree or a bush can no longer mug and rape a 30 ton full tracked vehicle that will be the day I side with you for a more realistic game on the ground. Until then, it is still just a game with a multitude of imperfections.  :old:

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1/32311_10200137265263977_1113664154_n.jpg?lvh=1)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: FLOOB on March 02, 2014, 12:28:03 PM
This isnt a wish its a complaint. Like many of the threads started here.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 12:32:56 PM
This isnt a wish its a complaint. Like many of the threads started here.

Just because you like abusing a broken mechanic doesn't mean it should stay. :)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: HawkerMKII on March 02, 2014, 01:07:47 PM

Would you like your world's biggest violin for that whine Revo?


Good one Rot :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: mbailey on March 02, 2014, 01:33:43 PM
Just because you like abusing a broken mechanic doesn't mean it should stay. :)

Broken in your opinion....just fine for many others
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 01:53:08 PM
Broken in your opinion....just fine for many others

I'll use an example of a time I have used the broken mechanic just so that nobody can accuse me of whining.

I upped a Tiger II into a spawn on one of the TT maps. (Can't remember which one) I downed a few panzers and such before somebody figured out what I was in. Latrobe and two others in T-34's used berms as cover to flank me and we engaged in a fight at point blank range during which I was able to kill all of them multiple times despite being repeatedly turreted, tracked, and having my engine killed because some kind soul decided to help me out by spamming M3's and supplies. The mechanic is clearly broken, and again, just because you like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Delirium on March 02, 2014, 02:17:49 PM
The current situation would be better if;

1. The duration it takes to repair and reload was increased.

2. A graphically represented crew is visually fixing or entering the tank and could be fired upon, preventing the repair/reload.

3. VH supplies were changed to 2 different types consisting of repair OR reload, but neither one could perform the other task.

3. Reload supplies were dependent on the weight capacity of the vehicle that carried it. Why should a Jeep carry enough supplies to reload a Tiger? Better yet, how could a Jeep carry that many shells to allow a Tiger to full reload twice?
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Tinkles on March 02, 2014, 03:17:08 PM
The current situation would be better if;

1. The duration it takes to repair and reload was increased.

2. A graphically represented crew is visually fixing or entering the tank and could be fired upon, preventing the repair/reload.

3. VH supplies were changed to 2 different types consisting of repair OR reload, but neither one could perform the other task.

3. Reload supplies were dependent on the weight capacity of the vehicle that carried it. Why should a Jeep carry enough supplies to reload a Tiger? Better yet, how could a Jeep carry that many shells to allow a Tiger to full reload twice?

#1  +1

#2 Interesting.. if possible +1

#3 I like it +1

#4  So Jeeps would be able to carry repair supplies, and m3/251s would be able to carry repair and reloading supplies?  If so, +1

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 02, 2014, 03:20:55 PM
The current situation would be better if;

1. The duration it takes to repair and reload was increased.

2. A graphically represented crew is visually fixing or entering the tank and could be fired upon, preventing the repair/reload.

3. VH supplies were changed to 2 different types consisting of repair OR reload, but neither one could perform the other task.

3. Reload supplies were dependent on the weight capacity of the vehicle that carried it. Why should a Jeep carry enough supplies to reload a Tiger? Better yet, how could a Jeep carry that many shells to allow a Tiger to full reload twice?

 :aok

If we're going for realism then the jeep could partially resupply an M8 or an M16 and even the Wirble. But the M3 would be needed to resupply the heavier equipped GVs. If Hi-Tech is so inclined he could consider adding a deuce and a half to the game to make the resupply/repairs even more believable.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/GMC_2_Half-ton_6x6_Truck.jpg/300px-GMC_2_Half-ton_6x6_Truck.jpg)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Stresser on March 02, 2014, 04:38:22 PM
Like a few others have already said, I have a bigger problem with the shrubs and trees flipping tanks. IMHO the vehicle supplies repairing tanks is a "workable" simulation for field repair and recovery.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 04:44:17 PM
Like a few others have already said, I have a bigger problem with the shrubs and trees flipping tanks. IMHO the vehicle supplies repairing tanks is a "workable" simulation for field repair and recovery.

Quit running into shrubs and trees.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 02, 2014, 04:55:19 PM
Quit running into shrubs and trees.

Just like in real armored combat, tank commanders here must utilize the natural surroundings for cover, camouflage and concealment. We need to get close to them to gain an advantage. And when we do, unlike real trees, they knock the ever loving snot out of us.  :bhead
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Tinkles on March 02, 2014, 05:01:50 PM
Just like in real armored combat, tank commanders here must utilize the natural surroundings for cover, camouflage and concealment. We need to get close to them to gain an advantage. And when we do, unlike real trees, they knock the ever loving snot out of us.  :bhead

But you have to understand that is a game mechanic flaw. Which will be addressed in the new terrain engine. Have patience, there is a good chance it may be fixed or addressed in some way with the new terrain update.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: EagleDNY on March 02, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
It's far too quick..... The 30 seconds required on the re arm pad should also apply in the field IMO.

+1 on that
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Oldman731 on March 02, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
I have. Eight years as a tanker in the Marines.


So you and Save have much in common.

That is a great photo.

- oldman
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 02, 2014, 06:27:45 PM
Towing a damaged tank could be an alternative option, but only heavier/same weight tanks should be able to do it.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: RotBaron on March 02, 2014, 10:12:54 PM
We're asking for changes to be made to a broken mechanic. You want ENY limits removed so you can club whoever has the fewest number of defenders with perk rides and Runstangs.


NO, quite the contrary. In all reality, I don't really care for my personal reasons. I'm flying the G-14 and A-5 as my main rides lately (except for immediate base def.) However, I do see a lot of ppl lodging valid complaints often about the fact that eny is limiting them from this or that, yet they are not the ones trying to horde. Clubbing the other side, would you say that is what the horde does??? ENY does not stop the horde buddy. You might know that if YOU actually flew in the MA anymore.

Check my stats, come back and tell me about my runstangs and all the perk rides I fly, lmao!  
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: RotBaron on March 02, 2014, 10:24:39 PM
The game mechanic is broken.  :)

It is? Seemed to work fine for me, I dropped supplies to a buddy and he got them  :x    No complaints.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 02, 2014, 10:26:54 PM

NO, quite the contrary. In all reality, I don't really care. I'm flying the G-14 and A-5 as my main rides lately. However, I do see a lot of ppl lodging valid complaints often about the fact that eny is limiting them from this or that, yet they are not the ones trying to horde. Clubbing the other side, would you say that is what the horde does??? ENY does not stop the horde buddy. You might know that if YOU actually flew in the MA anymore.

Check my stats, come back and tell me about my runstangs and all the perk rides I fly, lmao!  

It is far from a valid complaint. As I said before the wish stems from a desire to be able to club whichever side has the fewest number of defenders.

ENY exists to balance the MA when one side has substantially more players. It may not stop the horde but at least you don't have to fight Ponies, LA7's, and Spit16's while outnumbered three or four to one. The solution to all of this is to switch to a side with fewer players, then they can climb back in the 5 ENY ride of their choice.

On a side note as I said before I have been flying off and on all day, I am well aware of what happens in the MA.  

Of course you would be far better off bringing this up in the proper thread, rather then trying to derail this one because you're upset.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 03, 2014, 11:21:24 AM
Have you resupplied a tank with 75-120 mm shells through the hatches ?
I have many time's.
Its a PITA, specially the rounds stored low, off the ready-shelf, the 30 sec's is an absolute minimum.



if you can resupply and repair a tank in real life--why shouldn't we be able to do it in the game-a game that is modeled after real planes -gv's and ships--cause if you leave a burning cv group alone long enough in will repair itself and the cruiser will reappear..
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: bozon on March 04, 2014, 03:17:03 AM
if you can resupply and repair a tank in real life--why shouldn't we be able to do it in the game-a game that is modeled after real planes -gv's and ships--cause if you leave a burning cv group alone long enough in will repair itself and the cruiser will reappear..
reloading of ammo should stay. It is the fixing of major damage to the tank that is disputed. at most the supplies should fix a broken track and the turret MG. no fixing of the main gun, engine or armor.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: LCADolby on March 04, 2014, 04:09:05 AM
Planes rearm but do not repair in 30seconds. GVs repair and rearm instantly, GVers get so many concessions, the lucky pockeybits. :old:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: icepac on March 04, 2014, 12:27:10 PM
"in field repair" encourages spawn camping.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 04, 2014, 02:14:48 PM
"in field repair" encourages spawn camping.

Yeah because chronic spawn campers need encouragement to do so.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: danny76 on March 04, 2014, 03:51:37 PM
Have you resupplied a tank with 75-120 mm shells through the hatches ?
I have many time's.
Its a PITA, specially the rounds stored low, off the ready-shelf, the 30 sec's is an absolute minimum.




I always enjoy the trapping of fingers twixt tank round and hatch ring. Exquisite pain :old:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 04, 2014, 04:37:32 PM
I always enjoy the trapping of fingers twixt tank round and hatch ring. Exquisite pain :old:

In the Marine tank battalions that's what we have Lance Corporals in Nomex for.  :lol
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: USRanger on March 04, 2014, 06:19:22 PM
But you have to understand that is a game mechanic flaw.


It's not a flaw.  It is a product of current technology.  Does anyone here have any idea how many trees and bushes are on an MA terrain?  It's in the tens of thousands (the largest object group in the game).  If the game had to keep track of every single tree or bush that was knocked over, the server would probably assplode.  It's simply not doable if we want to keep all the other things we have in game.  It's not a flaw, it's just way too much for the game to keep track of.  A rough estimate of a 512x512 mile MA terrain is 30,000 to 40,000 trees & shrubs.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 04, 2014, 07:09:05 PM
It's not a flaw.  It is a product of current technology.  Does anyone here have any idea how many trees and bushes are on an MA terrain?  It's in the tens of thousands (the largest object group in the game).  If the game had to keep track of every single tree or bush that was knocked over, the server would probably assplode.  It's simply not doable if we want to keep all the other things we have in game.  It's not a flaw, it's just way too much for the game to keep track of.  A rough estimate of a 512x512 mile MA terrain is 30,000 to 40,000 trees & shrubs.

The maps on T-34 vs Tiger are quite huge. And this game is played p2p direct with no powerful server hosting the action and you can knock down trees. Plus the terrain is better detailed as is the realism of the vehicles. I wish AH has this modeling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P_5mTe6W-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P_5mTe6W-w)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: USRanger on March 04, 2014, 07:17:17 PM
I watched a couple minutes of it.  That game looks really cool, reminds me of Red Orchestra.  But does it also have hundreds of people in the arena in a hundred different aircraft that the server has to keep track of bullet hits/damage on?  I'm asking because I don't know, never played it.  I'd rather have the trees we have now than give up bullet holes a' plenty on my plane.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: RotBaron on March 04, 2014, 11:47:04 PM
It is far from a valid complaint. As I said before the wish stems from a desire to be able to club whichever side has the fewest number of defenders.

ENY exists to balance the MA when one side has substantially more players. It may not stop the horde but at least you don't have to fight Ponies, LA7's, and Spit16's while outnumbered three or four to one. The solution to all of this is to switch to a side with fewer players, then they can climb back in the 5 ENY ride of their choice.

On a side note as I said before I have been flying off and on all day, I am well aware of what happens in the MA.  

Of course you would be far better off bringing this up in the proper thread, rather then trying to derail this one because you're upset.

This was quite the proper thread for your whine, you attack me in another thread calling it a whine, I reciprocated.


You don't spend any time in the wee morning hours when there is eny any way, so how do you know? I'm there almost every day, I know, the same thing happens ever morning. Just as Bill Cosby would have said, whoever the lower side countries are almost always gang the larger country. You know how much larger? Usually by about 8-10 players, and with that the eny difference as high as from zero on one country, to well over 25 on the other. Try it some morning, it's been happening to Knights a lot lately, I'm sure that's just lately, but that's where you fly Teacher. Come in about 5-6am EST, see what you think.

Also You really think it's necessary and without it there would be ponys and la7s all over the place when the whole MA has 30 ppl in it???   :headscratch:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: danny76 on March 05, 2014, 04:19:45 AM
In the Marine tank battalions that's what we have Lance Corporals in Nomex for.  :lol

Thats me! But British Army not keen on shelling out for Nomex. Everything hurts on tankks. Hence the phrase 'panzer rash' :old:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Tilt on March 05, 2014, 08:39:24 AM
It's not a flaw.  It is a product of current technology.  Does anyone here have any idea how many trees and bushes are on an MA terrain?  It's in the tens of thousands (the largest object group in the game).  If the game had to keep track of every single tree or bush that was knocked over, the server would probably assplode.  It's simply not doable if we want to keep all the other things we have in game.  It's not a flaw, it's just way too much for the game to keep track of.  A rough estimate of a 512x512 mile MA terrain is 30,000 to 40,000 trees & shrubs.

To be precise trees and bushes are not objects. They are like clutter.......  If they were objects they would be individually capable of being set hard or soft, destructible, non destructible.

Clutter can also be set hard or soft. But only as a generic type.

We have hard trees and soft grass and small bushes. Indeed parts of the trees are soft and other parts hard.

The next trick IMO would be to make clutter react to "masks".

One type of mask maybe defined as a shell crater where by all clutter within the crater is switched off.

Another mask may be defined by vehicle tracks whereby all clutter within a set of vehicle tracks is switched off.

Having established this principle then we have to make clutter react to a form of "damage". This does not have to be the same as object damage in game.

We could imagine various damage thresholds..... Let's assume 3 for this purpose.

No damage> light damage> medium damage> heavy damage.

Craters due to bombs or shells  or the area between and just infront of  a Tiger2 tracks would impart heavy damage..... Removing all clutter within this mask.

A jeep would only impart light damage capable of removing light bushes just infront of and between its tracks.

A T34 might only impart medium damage capable of removing small trees in front of and between the tracks.

To the player a jeep driver would hit and bounce off small and large trees as it does now. A Tiger 2 would seem to drive through all trees masking off and removing the tree as it fell between its tracks. The T34 would still bounce off the large tree but drive through the small tree.

The next question is how and when this clutter would re appear. Obviously if a jeep parks over a clutter mask path made by a Tiger the risk is that a tree suddenly grows under it flipping it over.

There are a number of solutions here. The clutter could transition thru soft to hard as it re appears from the mask. Indeed if it transitioned from fully soft > light> medium> heavy then even a jeep would mask it locally as it went thru the light stage.

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: BnZs on March 05, 2014, 09:28:59 AM


ENY exists to balance the MA when one side has substantially more players. It may not stop the horde but at least you don't have to fight Ponies, LA7's, and Spit16's while outnumbered three or four to one. The solution to all of this is to switch to a side with fewer players, then they can climb back in the 5 ENY ride of their choice.

Unless they switched to a side that previously had fewer players within the last 12 hours, then they can't switch.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 05, 2014, 11:27:28 AM
-1

Just a bunch of whining :cry Someone must be dying at the spawn alot! :rofl
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 07, 2014, 01:16:45 PM
Guess how many times we had to dig them out when the snow where 1,5 meters deep.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/12995013514_9f16cf2712_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 07, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
Guess how many times we had to dig them out when the snow where 1,5 meters deep.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/12995013514_9f16cf2712_b.jpg)

You sure coulda used a few of our M88A2 Hercs back then, eh?

(http://www.deagel.com/library1/medium/2006/m02006112200120.jpg)

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 08, 2014, 04:33:30 AM
nah  :)

Since IKv 91 is a light tank destroyer, we normal "float" ontop of snow, due to low ground pressure and relatively wide tracks. The darn thing can even swim.

But in some snow conditions snow can build up under the belly, and the tracks wont reach down. We normally have a tow wire at each tank attached in such conditions, and one of the other tanks in the platoon quickly get you out of the mess you will be blamed for  :cool:

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 08, 2014, 06:51:23 AM
Yeah but the 88 could pick you straight up and carry you to level ground.  :lol
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: BnZs on March 08, 2014, 06:53:22 AM
I tend to agree with the OP here. A spawn camper who gets their turret busted should have to go home to get a new tank. I think it would be better.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: BnZs on March 08, 2014, 06:55:39 AM
Also, some bushes are already insubstantial-you drive right through them. They could do that with all the bushes, hedges, and trees AFAIC.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: -ammo- on March 08, 2014, 07:15:29 AM
Never mind :)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 08, 2014, 07:32:29 AM
I watched a couple minutes of it.  That game looks really cool, reminds me of Red Orchestra.  But does it also have hundreds of people in the arena in a hundred different aircraft that the server has to keep track of bullet hits/damage on?  I'm asking because I don't know, never played it.  I'd rather have the trees we have now than give up bullet holes a' plenty on my plane.

Check out this page for more info and images of WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger. I play this game quite a bit and I wish it would be molded into a MMOG. The performance and damage modeling is spot on. The terrain is excellent as is how the trees and shrubs react to tracked vehicles. The maps are huge and no server monitored this action. The game play is P2P and I have hosted several sessions in the past that include BOT tanks and live players. Granted the amount of players is on a much smaller scale but it proves it can be done. I would love to see this modeling come to AH or see this game developed further. Sadly I feel there is not enough interest worldwide but I think it would make for a fantastic MMOG. Especially if someone took the time to add more playable vehicles to it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/WWII-Battle-Tanks-T-34-vs-Tiger/258954727514161 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/WWII-Battle-Tanks-T-34-vs-Tiger/258954727514161)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 10, 2014, 01:01:41 PM
This is what i expect of a tank-sim,
not  a load of tank parts that magically bolt itself to a damaged tank.

Check out this page for more info and images of WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger. I play this game quite a bit and I wish it would be molded into a MMOG. The performance and damage modeling is spot on. The terrain is excellent as is how the trees and shrubs react to tracked vehicles. The maps are huge and no server monitored this action. The game play is P2P and I have hosted several sessions in the past that include BOT tanks and live players. Granted the amount of players is on a much smaller scale but it proves it can be done. I would love to see this modeling come to AH or see this game developed further. Sadly I feel there is not enough interest worldwide but I think it would make for a fantastic MMOG. Especially if someone took the time to add more playable vehicles to it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/WWII-Battle-Tanks-T-34-vs-Tiger/258954727514161 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/WWII-Battle-Tanks-T-34-vs-Tiger/258954727514161)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ink on March 10, 2014, 04:42:03 PM
To be precise trees and bushes are not objects. They are like clutter.......  If they were objects they would be individually capable of being set hard or soft, destructible, non destructible.

Clutter can also be set hard or soft. But only as a generic type.

We have hard trees and soft grass and small bushes. Indeed parts of the trees are soft and other parts hard.

The next trick IMO would be to make clutter react to "masks".

One type of mask maybe defined as a shell crater where by all clutter within the crater is switched off.

Another mask may be defined by vehicle tracks whereby all clutter within a set of vehicle tracks is switched off.

Having established this principle then we have to make clutter react to a form of "damage". This does not have to be the same as object damage in game.

We could imagine various damage thresholds..... Let's assume 3 for this purpose.

No damage> light damage> medium damage> heavy damage.

Craters due to bombs or shells  or the area between and just infront of  a Tiger2 tracks would impart heavy damage..... Removing all clutter within this mask.

A jeep would only impart light damage capable of removing light bushes just infront of and between its tracks.

A T34 might only impart medium damage capable of removing small trees in front of and between the tracks.

To the player a jeep driver would hit and bounce off small and large trees as it does now. A Tiger 2 would seem to drive through all trees masking off and removing the tree as it fell between its tracks. The T34 would still bounce off the large tree but drive through the small tree.

The next question is how and when this clutter would re appear. Obviously if a jeep parks over a clutter mask path made by a Tiger the risk is that a tree suddenly grows under it flipping it over.

There are a number of solutions here. The clutter could transition thru soft to hard as it re appears from the mask. Indeed if it transitioned from fully soft > light> medium> heavy then even a jeep would mask it locally as it went thru the light stage.



I like reading stuff like this.... :aok

thanx for taking the time....


a couple thoughts/questions....

wouldn't it be better to have the destroyed clutter just be "destroyed" for the duration of the map?

or possibly once the clutter has been destroyed,if there is collision between an object and terrain the clutter could not "regrow"?



at this point I envy the guys that can script.....
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Slade on March 10, 2014, 04:45:10 PM
[Silliness]
Planes should just need to fly over a rearm pad.  No need to land to use them as it is not considered a new sortie.  

Most planes in WWII had the easy ability to land 4-12 kills per sortie.  If they didn't they must have been slackers or something.
[/Silliness]
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: bustr on March 10, 2014, 05:21:49 PM
In Waffles post about the new Large Field object. My impression was a smaller area like 4mile x 4mile would become a focus inside of which a higher degree of detail would be programmed.

We don't tank battle across many more miles than 4x4 at any given spawn or field with our GV. Is it possible then the plan is to introduce destructible ground clutter into a smaller area knowing there is a very high probability no one is going to drive out from the area another few miles to fight?

I've had an encounter with a tank that after we finally killed it, we found it had about 20 boxes of supplies sitting around the area it was hiding and killing every aircraft spawning on a small field. This was back when the 88 was first introduced. I nailed it about 12 times and watched the smoke come out each time then disappear. Some one on range kept calling out M3 they were killing but, some M3 were getting through because I nailed one trying to reach the tank. Eventually our ord came up and the tank was bombed. That's when the 20 boxes of supplies were found.

If Hitech is bent on having Mario Bros power ups for our tanks. At least have ord and fuel that work instantaneously while the repair power up takes some time. I hear too many stories like mine from above and watch them in TT on the new map. An indestructible battle station being resupplied every few minutes with lines of supplies next to him. I took part with a dozen guys shooting at the same tigerII hitting him at last count about 10 rounds per tank while he slowly killed all of us. One of our bomb****s finished him reporting back he had a regimental supply depot laying around his position.

That is lame even for our game that prides itself on being better than the other gamey games.

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: RotBaron on March 11, 2014, 03:33:45 AM
Bustr: Maybe resupply only once per 30seconds?
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 12, 2014, 02:05:19 PM
[Silliness]
Planes should just need to fly over a rearm pad.  No need to land to use them as it is not considered a new sortie.  



Most planes in WWII had the easy ability to land 4-12 kills per sortie.  If they didn't they must have been slackers or something.
[/Silliness]


In ww2 gunnery was much harder than in a computer range finder, and kills where done 300 yards and below.
If AH meet that conditions, we would see less kills. estimate 3-5% of all kills where friendy kills, since the icons are harder to spot IRL.  :cool:
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 12, 2014, 05:11:00 PM
I'll use an example of a time I have used the broken mechanic just so that nobody can accuse me of whining.

I upped a Tiger II into a spawn on one of the TT maps. (Can't remember which one) I downed a few panzers and such before somebody figured out what I was in. Latrobe and two others in T-34's used berms as cover to flank me and we engaged in a fight at point blank range during which I was able to kill all of them multiple times despite being repeatedly turreted, tracked, and having my engine killed because some kind soul decided to help me out by spamming M3's and supplies. The mechanic is clearly broken, and again, just because you like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.
ok so your complaining that somebody gave you supplies several times to fix your 100 to 250 point perked tank...and your complaining about it.wow,talk about looking at a gift horse in the mouth...would you had your tank blow up instead????
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 12, 2014, 05:22:37 PM
lets see--in wwii you had trucks to deliver mechanic's and supplies to damaged tanks--although i doubt they could carrie enough 75mm and 88mm and 105mm shells to resupply a tank-i'll give you part of that..and they did not have mechanic's with wing's to fly up to the planes that were damaged or out of ammo..so planes have to rearm and refuel..but maybe they should limit the amout of supplies a m3 can carry..or have an m3 only carry 1 box at a time per damaged vehicle..
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: FLOOB on March 12, 2014, 05:25:01 PM
ok so your complaining that somebody gave you supplies several times to fix your 100 to 250 point perked tank...and your complaining about it.wow,talk about looking at a gift horse in the mouth...would you had your tank blow up instead????
Yes that was his point.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 12, 2014, 05:28:20 PM
It is? Seemed to work fine for me, I dropped supplies to a buddy and he got them  :x    No complaints.
heck--last night 3-11-14 i ran supplies to friendlies 3 or 4 times..if i'm in a non-perked tank-and enough people are hollering for supps i'll tower (usualy giving away a free kill to someone)and run supplys to friendlies.it's no big deal to me.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 12, 2014, 05:29:58 PM
Yes that was his point.
so he wanted to lose his high dollar tank'weired.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 12, 2014, 05:34:11 PM
so he wanted to lose his high dollar tank'weired.


I was out-maneuvered and out-driven during that fight. I absolutely deserved to lose my Tiger II and they absolutely deserved to win. I came out on top purely because I was able to abuse a silly, gamey mechanic and it should be changed.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Zoney on March 12, 2014, 05:35:28 PM
I was out-maneuvered and out-driven during that fight. I absolutely deserved to lose my Tiger II and they absolutely deserved to win. I came out on top purely because I was able to abuse a silly, gamey mechanic and it should be changed.

Why did you pick up the supplies?
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: FLOOB on March 12, 2014, 05:47:23 PM
Because he was using a "broken game mechanic", just like he said.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 12, 2014, 06:06:24 PM
Why did you pick up the supplies?

Because when something is available you tend to use it. Remove temptation.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: bozon on March 14, 2014, 03:13:14 AM
Why did you pick up the supplies?
When they fight, most player will use any tool available to them even if they do not think it should be possible.
Win first, do justice later.
ReVo is a fine example and should be commended that he brings forward his case as an argument to change a broken game mechanic.

lets see--in wwii you had trucks to deliver mechanic's and supplies to damaged tanks--although i doubt they could carrie enough 75mm and 88mm and 105mm shells to resupply a tank-i'll give you part of that..and they did not have mechanic's with wing's to fly up to the planes that were damaged or out of ammo..so planes have to rearm and refuel..but maybe they should limit the amout of supplies a m3 can carry..or have an m3 only carry 1 box at a time per damaged vehicle..
Tanks were and still are resupplied in the field between fights. This usually means just fuel and ammo. Repairs in the field are done by towing the tank back from the fire line to a safe location (or on the spot if the tank was left behind after the fire zone has advanced forwards) and doing minor damage repair. It is not like the field mechs carry an entire workshop with them. There's only so much they can do with a screwdriver a can-opener and a piece of gum. My dad did this in two wars. He has some funny stories about improvisations they did, but it's not like they repaired half-destroyed tanks.

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: save on March 14, 2014, 04:20:48 AM
The supply (fuel and ammo) is not at hand in the immediate battle zone, you are not likely going to park  ammo truck (or lightly armoured apc) next to a tank that is in a forward position, shooting or get shot at.

Normally you go some minutes off position to get your fuel and ammo, and get fed at the same time.
I have been involved in some repairs on tanks of various brands, rods are my favourite tool  :)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: ReVo on March 15, 2014, 06:51:58 AM
I don't mind the idea of M3's being able to resupply/repair vehicles. I just think that there should be a thirty second to one minute timer on the repairs and ammunition resupply. I am fine with supplies instantly righting an overturned tank.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 15, 2014, 08:48:53 AM
I don't mind the idea of M3's being able to resupply/repair vehicles. I just think that there should be a thirty second to one minute timer on the repairs and ammunition resupply. I am fine with supplies instantly righting an overturned tank.

Well if everyone is going to remain up in arms over the realism of recovery and resupply then, like I said earlier, add a deuce and a half to the game for plausible resupply and then also add the M32 TRV or the Bergepanther (SdKfz 179) to the game for tank recovery. To sweeten this deal Hi-Tech could award points for successful recovery operations under the vehicle tab.

(http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-mike/mike-number-us/m32_series/m32b1/m32b1_002.jpg)

 :rock

(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130203054833/world-war-2/images/d/df/Bergepanther_Ausf._A.jpg)
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Triton28 on March 15, 2014, 09:48:46 AM
I've been playing a lot of Arma 3 lately.  Their process for repairing broken vehicles requires everyone to be out and one person to use a "repair kit" item.  It doesn't take that long but you can't really do it under fire.  To me that's a good compromise between realism and ffs I just want to play a game. 
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 19, 2014, 01:08:32 PM
Because when something is available you tend to use it. Remove temptation.
just because you don't like or want to be resupplied-doesen't mean others don't want to be resupplied--if i drive to a far spawn say 3-to-5 map miles and get damaged i want to be supplied/repaired..and so do others--esp if they have a perked tank.
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: lunatic1 on March 19, 2014, 05:43:48 PM
We're asking for changes to be made to a broken mechanic. You want ENY limits removed so you can club whoever has the fewest number of defenders with perk rides and Runstangs.
dang it gv mechanics are not broken--there just underpaid
Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: stabbyy on March 21, 2014, 03:14:16 AM
"in field repair" encourages spawn camping.

theres an achievement for killing a GV within 30 seconds after it spawns... that encourages it to....but wait....it was put...in the game...OMG!

play smarter...


the problem im seeing is people just want to be able to pick apart wounded gv's much like la/190/51s run down smoking rtb planes cant tell you how many times ive seen a p51 sit at 15k over a furball just to dive in on first thing that starts leaking and headin home

that being said i do have a problem with the amount of ammo that does get supplied it should be dependent on the tank IE 88 is much bigger then a 37mm

so it would be like this
sup=1 box=400 20mm 50-37mm-25/75mm-9/88mm/(i realise this is not accurate just to give you an idea)


as for the people crying for "infield repair" well this is true it does take time...but most tanks"tracked" and other small issues could repair them selves which then means... a tank could assualt towns/bases get tracked in the process....turn its self into a gun emplacement... kill everything around it.. then repair its own track(Without need for sups) and then drive on to kill more... even that tanks have replacement treds on them..literally

so while you whine about instant resup.... everything else that comes from a more realistic element would produce more whines im sure

future post
"Omg tanks are to accurate they can like fix them selves and use stuff as cover"


but  agreed on shrubbery needs fixed first and for most... nothing like a tree/hill throwing a 90ton tanks 1500ft threw the air



Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: danny76 on March 21, 2014, 03:52:11 AM


as for the people crying for "infield repair" well this is true it does take time...but most tanks"tracked" and other small issues could repair them selves which then means... a tank could assualt towns/bases get tracked in the process....turn its self into a gun emplacement... kill everything around it.. then repair its own track(Without need for sups) and then drive on to kill more... even that tanks have replacement treds on them..literally

Ever changed the tracks on a tank? Or replaced pads or links? :cry


but  agreed on shrubbery needs fixed first and for most... nothing like a tree/hill throwing a 90ton tanks 1500ft threw the air

Which 90 ton tank would that be? :old:




Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 22, 2014, 10:38:30 AM
Yes. I have changed track, pads, pins and links before. Many, many times on both the M60A1 and the M1A1. I also helped a Challenger I crew do this in the desert and a Leopard crew do this in Europe more than once. I've also assisted on suspension work on both the the Japanese Type 74 and Type 90. Our pioneer gear on the tank, also known as SL-3 inventory in the Marines, equips the tank crew to make repairs to track. We carry spare track blocks, as do our platoon mates so block sharing is an option if more track is blown off that we have on our hog.

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1069833_199712080192869_1459077722_n.jpg)

The real problem occurs if there is extensive damage to the suspension components such as the roadwheels, roadarms, torsion bars, final drives, idlers or track adjusters. Then you need the support of battalion maintenance and possibly an ARV to assist.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/2504_1091749821015_1102445_n.jpg)

That is why I suggested the adding of the Bergepanther or M32 ARVs.

And though there were 90 ton behemoths produced in WWII, we all know they were rare and experimental. I believe the chap means 25 to 30 tons. You are just splitting hairs with that comment Danny.

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: danny76 on March 25, 2014, 06:36:56 AM
I believe that messing in the running gear of a tracked vehicle ranks amongst the most effective knuckle removing activity known to man, coupled with the pleasure of pry bars twisting and smacking you in the nuts/chin/shins. :cry

OK Blinder, I was being pedantic with the 90 ton thing :frown:

Title: Re: Stop vehicle in-field repair.
Post by: Blinder on March 26, 2014, 07:56:21 PM
I believe that messing in the running gear of a tracked vehicle ranks amongst the most effective knuckle removing activity known to man, coupled with the pleasure of pry bars twisting and smacking you in the nuts/chin/shins. :cry

OK Blinder, I was being pedantic with the 90 ton thing :frown:



You are forgiven, my son.  :angel: