Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BBP on March 02, 2014, 07:11:36 AM
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I would like to get comments from Pilots who fly planes like the Niki, Ki-84, Spits,Fm2,109-f,1o90-g2,109-g2, and so on. All the Dog Fighters that depend on "E" from starting at a higher altitude. You dive on your opponent and the chase is on. At what point do you give up on the battle and return to a higher altitude? How many turns can be made before your MPH is down to say 200? If you are successful in making a quick kill do you go for two? So I guess I'm asking about "E" management after the dive and you are on the deck. How long do you stay down and at what point do you decide to return to a higher altitude? Any comments on this subject would be appreciated from the mid-war type plane pilots.
Thanks,
KIMOSABE
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Not sure I understand your question. Are you asking how you BnZ the aircraft you listed?
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In all of those you listed, except the FM2 and Spits I, V and Seafire II, I would try to fight in the vertical as much as possible to maintain my E for as long as possible. Also try to fight uphill.
The downside of this tactic is that there are points, sometimes extended periods, where you have hung yourself out to dry and are ripe for being picked so you have to maintain good SA.
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No not BnZ............More dog fighting. But You can't use up all your e or you will be stuck without being able to recover.
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No not BnZ............More dog fighting. But You can't use up all your e or you will be stuck without being able to recover.
I think the environment is going to dictate how slow you get.
If your in a furball with lots of enemy swarming around 200-250 range is were you want to stay, or your best cornering speed. If there is only you against 1 or 2 then stall speed is ok as long as you can handle the plane your in AT stall speed.
Your not going to out run most of the planes your going against in the MA, nor out dive them. Your survival will depend on good shooting and good SA.
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Choose a vertical maneuver over a horizontal maneuver when you have the opportunity. As Vietnam Ace Duke Cunningham said "You meet a better class of people in the vertical".
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Choose a vertical maneuver over a horizontal maneuver when you have the opportunity. As Vietnam Ace Duke Cunningham said "You meet a better class of people in the vertical".
Vietnam Ace... As well as former congressman and convicted felon for corruption. Irony!
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Sent you a PM.
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I would like to get comments from Pilots who fly planes like the Niki, Ki-84, Spits,Fm2,109-f,1o90-g2,109-g2, and so on. All the Dog Fighters that depend on "E" from starting at a higher altitude. You dive on your opponent and the chase is on. At what point do you give up on the battle and return to a higher altitude? How many turns can be made before your MPH is down to say 200? If you are successful in making a quick kill do you go for two? So I guess I'm asking about "E" management after the dive and you are on the deck. How long do you stay down and at what point do you decide to return to a higher altitude? Any comments on this subject would be appreciated from the mid-war type plane pilots.
Thanks,
KIMOSABE
When you get slow you accelerate. Problem solved.
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Yea, by then its to late.
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Yea, by then its to late.
Accelerate earlier. You can ease your turns or fly straight. Maintaining good SA will let you know when it's safe to accelerate. If you can't accelerate safely you're even less likely to be able to climb out. Just build what speed and altitude you can as circumstances allow. If it's one bandit you can afford to get slow but if you have multiple threats you can't fixate on one target. Watching your threats will tell you when you have to pull off your target.
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instead of trying to explain how to "E" fight
(essentially I think all fighting is E fighting)
I will post up 3 films....all good examples of E fighting out numbered....and how to avoid HO shots....
things you should notice....I am very rarely in my front view....I use the hat switch for views....always always always be scanning around you for incoming threats. :old:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ol6ok0wc4ppb22g/5killz4minutes_short.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9sky9cxgl70x3sj/7killsinKI84.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/519sngmbr2s8r1t/something_aint_right_with_that.ahf
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Best I can tell the OP is asking at what E state should a turney plane abandon a furball. Not sure though. Seems counterintuitive. Are you getting the answer you were looking for OP?
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BBP maybe you should ask Latrobe to review a set of your films. I'm sure a film analysis will produce some good suggestions.
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From that list I can only speak for the 109s as I haven't flown the other planes enough to tell how well they can use, keep, and regain energy.
The 109 is a fantastic energy fighter. It's got an excellent climb rate to gain altitude quickly (Potential Energy). It's pretty good at accelerating, and picks up speed quickly in a dive (Kinetic Energy). It's also pretty ok at holding its E (in my opinion anyways). Not as well as something like a P51, but still pretty good.
When I have altitude and I want to BnZ my opponent in my 109 then I'll position to dive in on his rear. This way he won't be able to shoot back. If he sees me and starts turning then I'll try to predict where he's going to be and I pull 1 turn to pull a lead pursuit on him. I don't keep a constant turn because this will continuously bleed E. I predict his flight path, where in that flight path I can intercept him at gun range, pull 1 immediate turn to point my nose there, and then let off the turn and let him fly through my gunsight. If he sees this an changes his maneuver to avoid my shot then I won't push for the shot. I'll instead pull up into a climb, use all that speed I have (kinetic energy) and out climb him, regaining my altitude (potential energy) and drop back down for a second attempt from his rear. The key is I use very little E in my maneuvers while my opponent is using a lot of his E maneuvering to avoid my shots. Eventually he will run out of E and I can get a shot on him, or he will keep diving to regain E, eventually run out of altitude to convert into E, slowly run out of E, and I can then get a shot on him.
Let's look at it from the other side. Let's say I'm the low plane and my opponent has the altitude advantage. The very first thing you must do in this situation is neutralize the altitude advantage your opponent has. Remember this saying "Speed is life, but Altitude dictates the fight!" The one with altitude decides when to start the fight and when to end it. People say that the faster plane can always out run their opponent and reset the fight... well this doesn't work if your opponent has the altitude advantage. They can easy dive, build up excessive speed, and catch you. So how do we neutralize the altitude advantage? It requires patience. You must either take the time to climb for altitude and get up to their altitude, or wait for them to make a mistake and come down to your altitude. What you must do is go into a slow climb away from your opponent while keeping enough speed that you can maneuver if they make an attack run on you. BE PATIENT! You have to wait for your opponent to make the first move. If you make the first move then your opponent will just stay high, re-position, and you will have wasted E for no reason. Wait for them to make the first move and make an attack run. What I do is when I see them coming down, I'll nose down a bit to pick up extra speed (I'm usually slowly climbing at around 200-220mph), turn into them to defeat their attack, and depending on what they do I'll do 1 of 2 things. Either they make the mistake of not immediately going vertical and I see a chase to reverse my turn and get a quick snap shot before they pull away. If I can hit them then I can damage them, maybe even kill them. Even if I miss, seeing bullets pass by them may scare them into making another mistake and they'll try to turn instead of climb. This will waste their E advantage, bring them down to my altitude, and I'm already starting this fight on their 6. The other thing that could happen is I see them play it smart, go vertical, and regain their altitude. If this happens then I go pure defensive again. I regain the little altitude I lost in my maneuver and continue my slow climb away from my opponent. I do NOTHING but slowly climb away from them until THEY make the first move and start another attack run. If they make the first move and I start maneuvering to avoid their shot but then I see them break off their attack run because they see what my plan is and they do a high yo-yo to reposition for my 6 then I simply stop maneuvering. I level my wings, keep slow climbing and wait for them to make the first move. Eventually they will either get tired of missing and come down to my altitude for a turn fight, or I will finally get to their altitude and I can start working for the overshoot and go on the offensive. The key is PATIENCE! You must be patient!
Remember, just because someone has the altitude advantage it's not an automatic "I win" card. They have to dive on you to shoot you, and that builds up speed which makes forcing the overshoot easier. :devil
I would much rather my fights start with either me having the altitude advantage or my opponent having the altitude advantage. If it starts Co-Alt then I has to spend some time working to gain one of the advantages: Positional, E, or Altitude.
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A couple of things that rarely come up are the "energy egg", BFM, and how they relate. It seems most players learn "how to" by watching others and their videos. Having a good grip on energy management and how to employ the ride you're in are essential to really understanding what you are doing. :salute