Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hotcoffe on March 10, 2014, 08:56:51 AM
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace... Where frame rate determines your sync with actually what you looking on the screen and ping determines what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side (thus the player with lower ping has a advantage which like looking into future compared to player with lower ping)
so just enjoy the game and stop complaining about rubber bullets , impossible maneuvers others pulling or how easily you take damage while other players seems indestructible.
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I'm getting a headache just trying to decipher the title.... :huh :headscratch: :bhead
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace... Where frame rate determines your sync with actually what you looking on the screen and ping determines what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side (thus the player with lower ping has a advantage which like looking into future compared to player with lower ping)
so just enjoy the game and stop complaining about rubber bullets , impossible maneuvers others pulling or how easily you take damage while other players seems indestructible.
Don't look now bud, but this smacks mightily of complaining :aok
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Rudder pedals do take some getting used to :)
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doing fine with pedals :) loving them...
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace...
And here I thought it was just due to my lacking the skill, reflexes and continually making tactical ACM mistakes that were holding me back! :O
Damn...this IS good news! SO all I need to do is buy a super computer with as lag free a connection to HTC as I can find and I too can be a "super ace"!! Will I get a plaque with that and a side order of fries?!?! :rolleyes:
Dude....seriously....if you really believe this you are kidding yourself. Not saying good frame rates and low lag connections won't help....but don't lose sight of the big picture. Blaming external issues for skill gaps is counter productive.
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And here I thought it was just due to my lacking the skill, reflexes and continually making tactical ACM mistakes that were holding me back! :O
Damn...this IS good news! SO all I need to do is buy a super computer with as lag free a connection to HTC as I can find and I too can be a "super ace"!! Will I get a plaque with that and a side order of fries?!?! :rolleyes:
Dude....seriously....if you really believe this you are kidding yourself. Not saying good frame rates and low lag connections won't help....but don't lose sight of the big picture. Blaming external issues for skill gaps is counter productive.
Well obviously you miss understood it, you can improve on your skills become a good pilot decrease the rate of your deaths etc... look at vudu15 for example. What i am try to say that people are complaining about stuff that has nothing to with the their skill etc... like rubber bullet issue or dropping a bomb right on top of gv, while gv still sits there in the bomb crater etc... list goes on...
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Well obviously you miss understood it, you can improve on your skills become a good pilot decrease the rate of your deaths etc... look at vudu15 for example. What i am try to say that people are complaining about stuff that has nothing to with the their skill etc... like rubber bullet issue or dropping a bomb right on top of gv, while gv still sits there in the bomb crater etc... list goes on...
I didn't misunderstand what you intially wrote. Read your original post through then compare with what you just posted, which explains your position with a bit more clarity.
For the record, now that I clearly understand your intent, I would agree that it doesnt help complaining about these particular things. :aok
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an other example is the people complaining about damage modelling or collision modelling...
AH has one of the best damage modelling and collision modelling out there(please not that i am not talking about the graphics of it)... yet people still keep complaining about them all the time because the problems they having is an unavoidable inheritance of TCP/IP protocol ... (which is a loseless model, meaning that either a package is delivered completed or it needs to be delivered again...)
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace... Where frame rate determines your sync with actually what you looking on the screen and ping determines what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side (thus the player with lower ping has a advantage which like looking into future compared to player with lower ping)
This is very much wrong for the most part.
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This is very much wrong for the most part.
feel free to correct it than...
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feel free to correct it than...
For the start, I have a ping of 160 to 200 ... I don't know how you define "super ace", but I think I can hold my own... and if the rank stuff is indicating anything for you, see "latest tour winners". ;)
Second, of course ping has some kind of impact about "what you see on your screen", but ti's not "looking into the future" by any means. I think the big misconception is hiding in this:
what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side
The game isn't played on the server. What you see is what you get. If you have the enemy in your gunsight and pull the trigger and your rounds hit him on your screen, they hit. There is no guesswork involved about how things are 'looking on the server'. Yes, things may look somewhat different on your screen as well as on your enemy's screen which can have some impact on defensive maneuvering... but that actually applies to both players about the same. There is no significant advantage to be gained from having a <50 vs a 150ms ping
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This is very much wrong for the most part.
Lusche is quite right. The speed of your connection has very little to do with anything related to flying and shooting down anyone. The frame rate only becomes an issue when you are consistently below about 20FPS and the issue there is not being able to maintain fluid motion in really high speed maneuvers. The speed of the connection only becomes an issue when ping times are consistently above 300ms.
The game is designed for a 28.8Kbps dial up modem connection. If your connection is slower than that, then you are going to have a lot of problems.
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I agree with Lusche....
I have been playing since 04, and have all kinds of connections...from the most stable to a crappy satellite connection like I have now....
it does not make a bit of difference for the most part....when my connect isn't great I see planes around me all of them warping....that's how I know it is ME that is actually warping....but even then when I get rounds into someone they work just fine.
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I agree with Lusche....
I have been playing since 04, and have all kinds of connections...from the most stable to a crappy satellite connection like I have now....
it does not make a bit of difference for the most part....when my connect isn't great I see planes around me all of them warping....that's how I know it is ME that is actually warping....but even then when I get rounds into someone they work just fine.
I have seen a plane litterally teleport behind me when my network connection was showing very clear.
Once. In 9 years. :)
But clearly some people do have problems which can be related to their connections. Not much to be done about that.
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bellow ,you can see how the frame rate effects what you see. Also on top of this like another 2 frames loss per second lets say if you having average of 200ping.
now lets say under ideal situation you would aim where the target will be in 2 secs.
lets say you have 15frame rate and 2secs latency(total latency), so you must now predict and aim 4secs ahead and hope that your target wont change direction during that time.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/69f9/cu7db1c66c67d184g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/cu7db1c66c67d18/framerate.png)
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My ping is ~170..I will never be good at this game :cry
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My ping is ~170..I will never be good at this game :cry
Mine averages between ~65-90.
Hoplite pwns Bat. :rolleyes:
:D
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Warping has nothing to do with the ping times of a connection. It has to do with wide latency swings in the connection or poor quality connections (you can have a 1Gb/s Internet connection with a 5ms ping and warp all over the place).
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Warping has nothing to do with the ping times of a connection. It has to do with wide latency swings in the connection or poor quality connections (you can have a 1Gb/s Internet connection with a 5ms ping and warp all over the place).
Yups.
I warp rarely with Time Warner. When I had AT&T DSL I saw and/or was warping MUCH more.
Not that I think TWC is a great ISP. :mad: Hopefully the Comcast acquisition will be positive but, based on friends who have Comcast, I have my doubts.
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bellow ,you can see how the frame rate effects what you see. Also on top of this like another 2 frames loss per second lets say if you having average of 200ping.
now lets say under ideal situation you would aim where the target will be in 2 secs.
lets say you have 15frame rate and 2secs latency(total latency), so you must now predict and aim 4secs ahead and hope that your target wont change direction during that time.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/69f9/cu7db1c66c67d184g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/cu7db1c66c67d18/framerate.png)
Not true at all. Your aim is not impacted like that in Aces High. You use the same lead, no matter what the Internet connection is doing, nor the frame rate.
What you are describing is a server based flight model. Aces High is not server based. It is client based. This introduces some other types of anomalies, such as bullets appearing to not come directly from the gun that is shooting at you, or a collision occurring with a plane on your computer, but not the other, when the aggregate Internet connection pings between you, the server, and the other pilot are really high.
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the ping is not a real latency , but it should give you a really good idea about the latency you gonna have.And also it shows if you can reach the targeted IP... lets say you ping the target 5 times, if you dont get 5 response that shows that you are lossing data ...
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Lusche is quite right. The speed of your connection has very little to do with anything related to flying and shooting down anyone. The frame rate only becomes an issue when you are consistently below about 20FPS and the issue there is not being able to maintain fluid motion in really high speed maneuvers. The speed of the connection only becomes an issue when ping times are consistently above 300ms.
The game is designed for a 28.8Kbps dial up modem connection. If your connection is slower than that, then you are going to have a lot of problems.
Hmmm I thought you said it was your threwput, Latency, different upload and download speeds and the consistency of those speeds?
I was paying for 60/15megs up/down connection on cable.... I didn't always receive these figures and they no longer offer it. The highest they offer now is "up to 25mb's" and 5 down.
After hearing what I percieved you explained, I decreased my game connection to 5/1.5megs up/down and noticed quite a bit of improvement. My ping is still the same to Dallas but the time my computer receives the info was changed.
The connection is now forced to be limited at 5/1.5 by the provider and maintains the connection numbers more stably to the game server. :aok
There was a thread a few weeks back on connection I noticed one that really stood out, I believe it was "Mensa's", and had a higher upload then download at really very high figures connected from the UofFlorida I think.
If you have a higher up load then down, do you have to shoot WAY behind the guy instead? :headscratch:
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the ping is not a real latency , but it should give you a really good idea about the latency you gonna have.And also it shows if you can reach the targeted IP... lets say you ping the target 5 times, if you dont get 5 response that shows that you are lossing data ...
Ping (ICMP ECHO) packet loss does not translate to TCP/IP packet loss as TCP/IP automatically retries until the packet is sent, or a timeout occurs, or a hard error occurs.
However, if you are getting ICMP ECHO packet losses, then it is a safe bet you will get UDP packet loss.
Aces High uses both TCP/IP and UDP. If there is packet loss detected on the UDP protocol, the game will attempt to switch to TCP and not use UDP at all.
Hmmm I thought you said it was your threwput, Latency, different upload and download speeds and the consistency of those speeds?
I was paying for 60/15megs up/down connection on cable.... I didn't always receive these figures and they no longer offer it. The highest they offer now is "up to 25mb's" and 5 down.
After hearing what I percieved you explained, I decreased my game connection to 5/1.5megs up/down and noticed quite a bit of improvement. My ping is still the same to Dallas but the time my computer receives the info was changed.
The connection is now forced to be limited at 5/1.5 by the provider and maintains the connection numbers more stably to the game server. :aok
There was a thread a few weeks back on connection I noticed one that really stood out, I believe it was "Mensa's", and had a higher upload then download at really very high figures connected from the UofFlorida I think.
If you have a higher up load then down, do you have to shoot WAY behind the guy instead? :headscratch:
Yes, I failed to mention variance in latency. The faster your Internet connection is, above the aggregate throughput to the other end is, the more variance you will experience between packets and the more likely you will suffer dealing with warps.
Think of the Internet acting like someone turning a faucet open and closed all the time. If the pipe the water is running through is larger than the maximum flow, then the water will come out of the end of the pipe in spurts.
If the pipe is the average size of the variation in water flow, then the water will flow smoothly out of the end with very little change in the output. This is the ideal game connection for Aces High.
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Ping (ICMP ECHO) packet loss does not translate to TCP/IP packet loss as TCP/IP automatically retries until the packet is sent, or a timeout occurs, or a hard error occurs.
However, if you are getting ICMP ECHO packet losses, then it is a safe bet you will get UDP packet loss.
Aces High uses both TCP/IP and UDP. If there is packet loss detected on the UDP protocol, the game will attempt to switch to TCP and not use UDP at all.
Yes, I failed to mention variance in latency. The faster your Internet connection is, above the aggregate throughput to the other end is, the more variance you will experience between packets and the more likely you will suffer dealing with warps.
Think of the Internet acting like someone turning a faucet open and closed all the time. If the pipe the water is running through is larger than the maximum flow, then the water will come out of the end of the pipe in spurts.
If the pipe is the average size of the variation in water flow, then the water will flow smoothly out of the end with very little change in the output. This is the ideal game connection for Aces High.
so you took it one lvl up , but in essence if you have Ping package loss you are almost guaranteed to have TCP/IP package loss or latency ,since TCP/IP is all or nothing... its more or less the same logic in losseless data compression and lossly data compression (TCP/IP and UDP) .
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace... Where frame rate determines your sync with actually what you looking on the screen and ping determines what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side (thus the player with lower ping has a advantage which like looking into future compared to player with lower ping)
so just enjoy the game and stop complaining about rubber bullets , impossible maneuvers others pulling or how easily you take damage while other players seems indestructible.
OP, I think Hitech's signature has some useful words for you..
"There is always a small microcosm of people who need to explain away their suckage."
SlapShot
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blueberry
for once before commenting try to read the whole post.
ohh sorry forgot you dont have the brains for that...
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I tired to read it, but all I heard is someone trying to justify to the masses that skill is based on internet. No point to read any further, you are explaining away suckage. :salute
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Yes, I failed to mention variance in latency. The faster your Internet connection is, above the aggregate throughput to the other end is, the more variance you will experience between packets and the more likely you will suffer dealing with warps.
Think of the Internet acting like someone turning a faucet open and closed all the time. If the pipe the water is running through is larger than the maximum flow, then the water will come out of the end of the pipe in spurts.
If the pipe is the average size of the variation in water flow, then the water will flow smoothly out of the end with very little change in the output. This is the ideal game connection for Aces High.
There was a thread a few weeks back on connection I noticed one that really stood out, I believe it was "Mensa's", and had a higher upload then download at really very high figures connected from the UofFlorida I think.
If you have a higher up load then down, do you have to shoot WAY behind the guy instead? Or does it not matter?
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I tired to read it, but all I heard is someone trying to justify to the masses that skill is based on internet. No point to read any further, you are explaining away suckage. :salute
All I hear is another Puppet rearend :aok
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I would love to get into a back n forth here, as I am in the mood for it.. but I shall step back from here now as to avoid taking this to far off course.
Enjoy trying to prove that internet reflects skill. Peace. :salute
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ok before people get anymore confused let me try to explain this quickly :
Lets say you expecting to recieve 10 packages:
Think as TCP/IP: As package which a has 5 items in it and a checklist, when you receive the package you need to the go through the check list and make sure all the 5 items are in the package.If not the sender will send you the package again before sending the next package. Also the sender has to make sure that you receive the package , if you don't receive it , the sender will keep sending same package until you receive it (you either receive a damaged package or you don't receive it at all and the sender keeps sending the same package, thus the latency lag or what ever you want to call it occurs. (until time out where the sender stops trying))
UDP: Sender sends the package and does not care if you receive it or not or it is damaged, it just keeps sending the next package.
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I would love to get into a back n forth here, as I am in the mood for it.. but I shall step back from here now as to avoid taking this to far off course.
Enjoy trying to prove that internet reflects skill. Peace. :salute
here since you have not bother to read it at the beginning of the topic i ll post it again :
Well obviously you miss understood it, you can improve on your skills become a good pilot decrease the rate of your deaths etc... look at vudu15 for example. What i am try to say that people are complaining about stuff that has nothing to with the their skill etc... like rubber bullet issue or dropping a bomb right on top of gv, while gv still sits there in the bomb crater etc... list goes on...
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I would love to get into a back n forth here, as I am in the mood for it.. but I shall step back from here now as to avoid taking this to far off course.
Enjoy trying to prove that internet reflects skill. Peace. :salute
That's because you're the MAN, Bluberry, and you've learned that when you approach a bridge with a Troll, it's so much easier to just cross a different bridge. Well done sir :cheers:
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That's because you're the MAN, Bluberry, and you've learned that when you approach a bridge with a Troll, it's so much easier to just cross a different bridge. Well done sir :cheers:
Nice troll :aok
Edit:
You just made me think of something.... I have some people that keep wanting to cross my land, to do so they have to jump my fence and sneak through.
I have asked several of them not to trespass across my property as is disturbs my dogs and It's my property. For some reason they think they just have a right to a shortcut instead of going around...Well after a few years and the cops back and forth a few times.... they still seem to think its their right to take the short cut instead of going around.
So I was talking to a buddy the other day and found my answer. I just slathered some boat grease on the top rail of the black fence and sat back and watched.... :rofl
Problem solved,
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so you took it one lvl up , but in essence if you have Ping package loss you are almost guaranteed to have TCP/IP package loss or latency ,since TCP/IP is all or nothing... its more or less the same logic in losseless data compression and lossly data compression (TCP/IP and UDP) .
Not quite accurate. ICMP ECHO packet loss does not guarantee TCP packet loss. It all depends on the nature of the ICMP ECHO packet loss. Most routers are configured to give ICMP messages a low priority as they are mostly used for error messages. Some routers ignore the ICMP ECHO message, like the one before the last hop to us.
TCP is all or nothing, but it has built-in retries and timeouts to help insure delivery.
A proper comparison is, if TCP/IP packets are not being delivered, then there is a very good chance, nothing is going to get delivered on that connection.
There was a thread a few weeks back on connection I noticed one that really stood out, I believe it was "Mensa's", and had a higher upload then download at really very high figures connected from the UofFlorida I think.
If you have a higher up load then down, do you have to shoot WAY behind the guy instead? Or does it not matter?
The connection speed/latency/variance has nothing to do with your aim at an object on your screen.
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Not quite accurate. ICMP ECHO packet loss does not guarantee TCP packet loss. It all depends on the nature of the ICMP ECHO packet loss. Most routers are configured to give ICMP messages a low priority as they are mostly used for error messages. Some routers ignore the ICMP ECHO message, like the one before the last hop to us.
TCP is all or nothing, but it has built-in retries and timeouts to help insure delivery.
A proper comparison is, if TCP/IP packets are not being delivered, then there is a very good chance, nothing is going to get delivered on that connection.
The connection speed/latency/variance has nothing to do with your aim at an object on your screen.
Ty
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I would love to get into a back n forth here, as I am in the mood for it.. but I shall step back from here now as to avoid taking this to far off course.
Enjoy trying to prove that internet reflects skill. Peace. :salute
what the op is trying to say is that there's a bunch of guys with crappy computers and crappy connections that keep complaining how thre's no way they could have missed that shot and that the game is full of "rubber bullets"... and so on.
and a good portion of these people always claim to have "superior skills" above the average player base but the game itself is holding them back.
to those he's just giving an advise to either fix whatever is wrong be it internet or computer or both or shut up and enjoy the game.
semp
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To solve your problem fly the Yak9T close up to the bandit and bam!!!
Big fat cannon shell will show them who is boss :old:
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bellow ,you can see how the frame rate effects what you see. Also on top of this like another 2 frames loss per second lets say if you having average of 200ping.
now lets say under ideal situation you would aim where the target will be in 2 secs.
lets say you have 15frame rate and 2secs latency(total latency), so you must now predict and aim 4secs ahead and hope that your target wont change direction during that time.
Believeing that the internet affects where to aim is a common error but as Skuzzy said you only have to consider lag when you are being shot at. Since you are shooting at a target on your PC there is no lag. But you only get shot at by other players on their PCs. This is why enemies often have a better shot at you then they appear to. Even if 2 players have different connections they both have to deal with their combined lag when fighting. Each one has the same disadvantage when they're defensive.
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My ping is around 150... I better give up dreaming of being a "super ace".
:cry
Ping is a pain, having to wait that extra second for the server to destroy the guy you shoot, wasting ammo.
For some reason a lot of 30mm have been fired then snatched by the internet and hidden it a cupboard rather than making the enemy go boom.. People say that they aren't FE side but Server side :headscratch:
Not to mention defending, you can be killed, even though you watched the guy miss firing 100 yards off you.
If only Fibre Optic was as fast a copper... I miss my copper wire connection, even thought the bandwidth wasn't so good, it was 10% faster for ping.
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To solve your problem fly the Yak9T close up to the bandit and bam!!!
Big fat cannon shell will show them who is boss :old:
110G has two slightly less fat cannons....and two relatively slim ones. It is a tater salad coming out of the nose! :D
Yak9T has a bigger cannon....but it's just overcompensating for other......ahhhh...*ahem*......deficiencies. ;)
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The 110 is German and smells of leather shorts and big fat sausage :old:
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leather shorts and big fat sausage
*Steptoe and sons voice*
You diiirty old maaan!
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the reality is this is a computer game and does not matter how good you are in ACM etc... everything comes down to 2 things FPS and Ping , if you are having fps less than 60 and ping above than 50 don't even bother to become a super ace... Where frame rate determines your sync with actually what you looking on the screen and ping determines what you do see on your screen and actually whats being registered on the server side (thus the player with lower ping has a advantage which like looking into future compared to player with lower ping)
so just enjoy the game and stop complaining about rubber bullets , impossible maneuvers others pulling or how easily you take damage while other players seems indestructible.
You don't understand how the net code works. Anything you hit on your front end will get the damage. Lag only makes judging angles harder on your end so if you or the opponent lags a lot you may get hit even when his nose points away.
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And here I thought it was just due to my lacking the skill, reflexes and continually making tactical ACM mistakes that were holding me back! :O
Damn...this IS good news! SO all I need to do is buy a super computer with as lag free a connection to HTC as I can find and I too can be a "super ace"!! Will I get a plaque with that and a side order of fries?!?! :rolleyes:
Dude....seriously....if you really believe this you are kidding yourself. Not saying good frame rates and low lag connections won't help....but don't lose sight of the big picture. Blaming external issues for skill gaps is counter productive.
so, back when I was playing, after investing in a poop hot rig, track ir, the best of CH gear, and payed extra for the highest bandwidth that AT&T offered, it turns out I didn't suck but it was all just the nightly lottery which I lost again, and again, and again? Well dang..
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The 110 is German and smells of leather shorts and big fat sausage :old:
So that is what that smell is?!?
*gag*
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This game is awesome for the price, if I had $5000 I would buy it :old:
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I heard HiTech is building a small community around Hitech HQ with direct fiber optics to each home, which negates any internet lag and produces Top Guns.
When will they be for sale? :rock
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The 110 is German and smells of leather shorts and big fat sausage :old:
And BEER! :aok
(http://www.peoriagermans.net/Images/prost.jpg)
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And BEER! :aok
(http://www.peoriagermans.net/Images/prost.jpg)
:rock