Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: FLOOB on March 11, 2014, 11:17:13 PM
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after witnessing a lancaster killing tanks divebombing in low speed high angle dives, and tanks that are somehow killed by bombs that don't hit them, I was going to complain about it but then I thougt wtf for, nothing is going to change.
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Hahahahaha! get over it you put yourself there
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That's true, I did log on.
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after witnessing a lancaster killing tanks divebombing in low speed high angle dives, and tanks that are somehow killed by bombs that don't hit them, I was going to complain about it but then I thougt wtf for, nothing is going to change.
Do know that Lancasters were used by 617 squadron in high angle diving attacks in 1943?
Do you know that a bomb landing near a tank could and did hammer the crew inside and could flip tiger tanks?
(http://www.battlefieldhistorian.com/itemimages/bhc008037zoom.jpg)
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Why does aces high allow players like dolby?
Dolby may not always be the friendliest fellow in game, but unlike most of you he will put up a fight and provide me with my fifteen bucks worth of entertainment. I'll take an As$*$@! who fights over one hundred friendly and outgoing ack huggers and runtards.
On the subject of divebombing lancs..
I'll be happy to support your wish to eliminate this somewhat silly practice when the broken GV mechanics are fixed.
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a formation of 3 Lancasters would not have...ahhhhhnvm
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Did you know that the tiger tank in that photo was not missed by a bomb? That is not what I would call near, I would call that a hit.
Define high angle, like split-S dive or high angle for a lancaster?
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lacnstukas :banana:
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'High angle dives"???? Please elaborate. I want to learn more of this.
I do know that both the Lancaster and Ju88 did shallow dive bomb runs (no sight used) against static defenses/targets early in the war. But actual high angle dive bomb vs a specific target? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Are you suggesting that the bombs not release beyond a certain angle? What's the angle? Or that the wings should break off?
Can you elaborate on what the 'correct way' is?
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Were it up to me no 4 engine bomber would be able to bomb anyway but level.
To think it was common practice for the RAF to dive bomb precious and expensive lancasters to destroy tanks is insane. If it even happened at all. I think Lancstukas are one of the gamiest aspects of Aces High.
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Dolby may not always be the friendliest fellow in game, but unlike most of you he will put up a fight and provide me with my fifteen bucks worth of entertainment. I'll take an As$*$@! who fights over one hundred friendly and outgoing ack huggers and runtards.
On the subject of divebombing lancs..
I'll be happy to support your wish to eliminate this somewhat silly practice when the broken GV mechanics are fixed.
You know that's hurtful, right!?
:confused:
:(
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Dolby may not always be the friendliest fellow in game, but unlike most of you he will put up a fight and provide me with my fifteen bucks worth of entertainment. I'll take an As$*$@! who fights over one hundred friendly and outgoing ack huggers and runtards.
On the subject of divebombing lancs..
I'll be happy to support your wish to eliminate this somewhat silly practice when the broken GV mechanics are fixed.
Dolby has never struck me as anything but a nice guy, and very formidable opponent.
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Dolby is probably the nicest Welsh person to play Aces High, and one of the best sticks to ever come out of Llanfairfechan :salute
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What the hell does dolby have to do with this?
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What the hell does dolby have to do with this?
Dolby is the guy with the unicorn suit on, nothing more. Ignore him. Focus on the topic at hand.
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You know that's hurtful, right!?
:confused:
:(
Dolby, let us be honest for a moment. You (Much like me) have not always been the kindest soul to fly the unfriendly skies. But I am sorry if I have hurt your feelings. :cry
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Did you know that the tiger tank in that photo was not missed by a bomb? That is not what I would call near, I would call that a hit.
Define high angle, like split-S dive or high angle for a lancaster?
How would you define a high angle for a lanc? The only lanc's I see bombing GV's are either level or in a pretty shallow dive.
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Rolling over into a dive and losing the drones.
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I think Rick Astley would like to weigh in on this issue.
(http://www.mattcutts.com/images/rick-astley-trenchcoat.jpg)
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I recall there once being a talk on knight country channel of something called the B-17 lanccorgstuka. Some fictional plane plane we make out of B-17's, lancs and a stuka. And a corgis! A cute little puppy! :)
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Best way to clear a camped spawn. Now my favorite is to bring in lancs to a heavily camped spawn at 10k and smash gv's using the bomb sight, I've bagged as much as 7 kills with the cookie cutter.
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And thats great but it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
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Do know that Lancasters were used by 617 squadron in high angle diving attacks in 1943?
Do you know that a bomb landing near a tank could and did hammer the crew inside and could flip tiger tanks?
(http://www.battlefieldhistorian.com/itemimages/bhc008037zoom.jpg)
Do we have any records of what altitudes were used when doing divebombing while in heavy bombers?
When I think of heavy bombers, I think of the large b17/b24 raids of mutli altitude bombers flying level in various formations. So when I see one dive-bombing akin to a stuka, I start asking questions.
I think bomb payloads should determine what altitude bombers can release their ordinance.
For example: if we had the Lancaster skip-bomb (I don't know the nick-name/technical name), then the lancaster would be able to release at only certain altitudes and speeds. Like what we have with torpedo bombers.
If you have GP bombs, then you can release at say.. a minimum of 5000 ft and upwards of 35k, so if you are under 5000ft your bombs don't register (like if you drop torpedos too fast, or dropping bombs under the current limit conditions of less than 800ft.)
If you select one (single) bomber (no formation), then you can do violent manuvers. If you select a formation, your turning movements should be.. dulled in a way, at least until you lose your two drones. So we don't have 'skipping/warping" drones, and the 'easy exploits' with that.
I have seen some player take b29s and carpet bomb the V87 spawn, landing nearly 30 kills while being under 2000ft. :lol
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think all heavy bombers shouldn't be able to drop ordinance unless at 5000 ft+, and not be able to do violent manuvers unless they have NO formation. I have no problems with bombers, I do however have problems with players abusing the loopholes in the system, which is what I am sort of asking for them to fix here.
I don't view this 5000 ft minimum limit any different than the minimum 800ft for bombs to arm that we have now. Heavy bombers carry more ordinance, and have bombsights.. they have no need to be divebombing (with formation). If they do NOT have a formation, then I would be more 'merciful' on that, maybe droppig it to 2000ft or something like that. But at the very least heavy bombers shouldn't be able to do heavy evasive manuvers like that with a formation, without sure.. but not with a formation.
Apologies if this is viewed as a hi-jack.
:cheers:
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And thats great but it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
I agree, let's get back on topic
Not many people can fly the Emil like Dolby, and although he sometimes has a hot temper he is well known for his fighting spirit and is the antithesis of the horder or ack runner type of player
He also makes great movies about Aces High!
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hmmm--broken gv mechanics--broken aircraft mechanics--broken cv mechanics--broken vh-town-airfield mechanics--broken mechanic mechanics..where will it end??????????????????????
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hmmm--broken gv mechanics--broken aircraft mechanics--broken cv mechanics--broken vh-town-airfield mechanics--broken mechanic mechanics..where will it end??????????????????????
At least have the patience to wait on AH3 / Revamped AH2, when all these problems will be addressed. It's foolish to keep making wishes and comments like these when it has already been announced that HTC is working on things that will address the problems you just listed.
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I know the B-17 and B-24 have limits on pitch angles for bomb release -- has to do with the bombs clearing structure as they leave the bomb bay. Model those restrictions….if exceeding the limit pitch angles then bombs don't drop.
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At least have the patience to wait on AH3 / Revamped AH2, when all these problems will be addressed. It's foolish to keep making wishes and comments like these when it has already been announced that HTC is working on things that will address the problems you just listed.
I think he was being sarcastic.
As to the OP, in a perfect world we all have an idea of what we think the game should be about, and how it should be played. What you have to understand is in the "sandbox" that is the Main arena all things are possible and you can do pretty much anything you want that the game mechanics allow, this includes divebombing with a Lanc.
If you want something a bit more realistic, scenarios or FSO might be where the OP should be flying, not the Main arena.
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All I see in the MA are Lancasters 'diving' at 25° and everybody scream "Stuka" :rolleyes:
I have yet to witness sucessfull and efficient 70° formation dive bombing runs in a heavy bomber formation in the MA. Which is odd as I'm told they are occuring all the time
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All I see in the MA are Lancasters 'diving' at 25° and everybody scream "Stuka" :rolleyes:
I have yet to witness sucessfull and efficient 70° formation dive bombing runs in a heavy bomber formation in the MA. Which is odd as I'm told they are occuring all the time
I think most are complaining about the gross abuse of a bomb truck. The Lancaster carpet bombing a gv spawn point, or other such rally point, at 800-150 ft, using 1000 lb bombs does get to be a bit much. I've not ever seen a true "dive bombing" Lancaster bomber.
I have however seen a Ju88 "dive bombing" at 45°+ angles. ;)
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I've not ever seen a true "dive bombing" Lancaster bomber.
I have seen it thats what prompted me to post this. I dont have a problem with the level bombing of spawn points. But the dive bomb just makes aces high look stupid.
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All I see in the MA are Lancasters 'diving' at 25° and everybody scream "Stuka" :rolleyes:
I have yet to witness sucessfull and efficient 70° formation dive bombing runs in a heavy bomber formation in the MA. Which is odd as I'm told they are occuring all the time
As i said the guy dive bombing lost his drones when he dove, i dont know why he bothered bringing them.
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You need to find the vertical dive test data from Avro for the maximum speed achieved by the Lancaster without shedding the wings.
Those tests usually happened from 25-30k to allow time to pull out. I will bet HTC has a copy. Which means offline you can climb to 25k, point strait down and I think it's between 400 and 450 that you can still pull out by. Keep track of the max G during the pullout. That will be your limit at lower alts dive bombing. Same test can be performed with the other 4 engine bombers. But, then most of the dive bombing I've witnessed hasn't been more than 60 degrees for short dives.
I have faith in Hitech that he includes the maximum G load limits of his airframes in the game. I suspect no one has reached them often with airplanes constructed to carry massive amounts of weight, so are constructed accordingly. We see whines all the time when fighter jockeys find the maximum G load for their airframe.
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I know the B-17 and B-24 have limits on pitch angles for bomb release -- has to do with the bombs clearing structure as they leave the bomb bay. Model those restrictions….if exceeding the limit pitch angles then bombs don't drop.
Colmbo, would you be able to find these numbers?
- oldman
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Colmbo, would you be able to find these numbers?
- oldman
I've been trying to remember where I that info. They might have been on a placard in the bomb bay of the aircraft…in which case someone else is going to have to check on them since I'm a few thousand miles from the airplanes.
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Found the info for the B-17, it's in the airplane operations manual.
The angle for glide or climb is dependent upon which bomb is being dropped AND from which bomb bay station it is dropped from. Some limits are very low -- just 2 or 3 degrees while others are as high as 50 degrees. There is a note that states "Angles shown allow 10 degrees for safety. However, under perfectly smooth flying conditions, if in the airplane commander's opinion conditions warrant it, these give angles may be exceeded by not more than 5 degrees.
I will try and scan the page and post an image of it in the morning.
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Lanc hand book.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/42679113/1945-Pilot-s-and-Flight-Engineer-s-Notes-Lancaster-Mark-I-Mark-VII-Mark-III-Mark-X
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Found the info for the B-17, it's in the airplane operations manual.
The angle for glide or climb is dependent upon which bomb is being dropped AND from which bomb bay station it is dropped from. Some limits are very low -- just 2 or 3 degrees while others are as high as 50 degrees. There is a note that states "Angles shown allow 10 degrees for safety. However, under perfectly smooth flying conditions, if in the airplane commander's opinion conditions warrant it, these give angles may be exceeded by not more than 5 degrees.
I will try and scan the page and post an image of it in the morning.
Lancaster's bay is long and shallow. That would larely eliminate the problems the short and deep bay on the B-17 caused for the bombs mounted higher up.
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Very true Karnak.
Here's the B-17 angles and bomb bay stations scans:
(http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/aceshigh/angle.jpg)
(http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/aceshigh/bombbay.jpg)
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Lancaster's bay is long and shallow. That would larely eliminate the problems the short and deep bay on the B-17 caused for the bombs mounted higher up.
Page 15 of Scribd link. Page 29 of actual book.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/42679113/1945-Pilot-s-and-Flight-Engineer-s-Notes-Lancaster-Mark-I-Mark-VII-Mark-III-Mark-X
"Bomb Clearances angles."
Dive 30 deg.
Climb 20 deg.
Bank 10 deg..........(With S.B.C.25 deg.).
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and also remember most people in the game cannot judge angles correctly. 15-20 degrees = 45-60 to them.. shallow glide = dive bomber
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and also remember most people in the game cannot judge angles correctly. 15-20 degrees = 45-60 to them.. shallow glide = dive bomber
Sadly this is true.
I have though seen a lanc dive at 30+ degrees, he however was going too fast and yanked the stick too hard.. ripped his wings off, and collided with my wirble :lol
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ooopz
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Can we please get the Dolby thread hijack back underway?
Thank you.
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Page 15 of Scribd link. Page 29 of actual book.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/42679113/1945-Pilot-s-and-Flight-Engineer-s-Notes-Lancaster-Mark-I-Mark-VII-Mark-III-Mark-X
"Bomb Clearances angles."
Dive 30 deg.
Climb 20 deg.
Bank 10 deg..........(With S.B.C.25 deg.).
Lyric this is what I was looking for. So does this mean the bomb will impact the plane or another bomb or the rack etc?
How is this modeled? If so, how? I.E. [the bomb does not release]
:salute
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How is this modeled? If so, how? I.E. [the bomb does not release]
:salute
It is not modeled in AH.
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Get rid of F3 mode in pilot's position.
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Get rid of F3 mode in pilot's position.
No.
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This is what the fork I'm talking about.
http://youtu.be/arBtkA7KZXg
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This is what the fork I'm talking about.
http://youtu.be/arBtkA7KZXg
Pretty kewl! What a target!
- oldman
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No, it's not kewl. It's lame and I wish it would be changed.
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At least have the patience to wait on AH3 / Revamped AH2, when all these problems will be addressed. It's foolish to keep making wishes and comments like these when it has already been announced that HTC is working on things that will address the problems you just listed.
i'm not the one making wishes mannn,just conversaten--and i can wait.the OP is the one with the thread..i'm just the one griping about the phrase..broken mechanics--
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This is what the fork I'm talking about.
http://youtu.be/arBtkA7KZXg
wish i could make a bomber do that----heck i'd like to make my fighter do that.
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after witnessing a lancaster killing tanks divebombing in low speed high angle dives, and tanks that are somehow killed by bombs that don't hit them, I was going to complain about it but then I thougt wtf for, nothing is going to change.
:aok
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This is what the fork I'm talking about.
http://youtu.be/arBtkA7KZXg
i witnessed last night what your talking about..knight's a7-town was flat wf--airfield flat-everything burning...nothing left to destroy-lancstuka still diving on base dropping bombs..diving-climbing-twisting turning--what i call sky danceing..low speed--NEVER!!! lost a drone-v6 was next-low level bombing which is okay-but i hit lead bomber 6 times with a manned gun-at least i saw 6 sparkies--never lost a part-never smoked.maybe it was just bad shooting.
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This last month I've noticed it taking more 37mm from the manned field guns to cause any real damage to bombers. In many cases I'm still getting the kills but, only after several fighters continue chewing on the bombers. The sparkling light shows are still as good as ever......
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This is what the fork I'm talking about.
http://youtu.be/arBtkA7KZXg
bombs released at about a 35 degree point... was the nose down at 90 at some point...sure but that does not mean it bombed you at 90 degrees
if your mad about the fact i bombed you(which i think i have this spot on as this post was made not 15minutes after i killed you in said lancs)
for your answer... i killed engines dropped flaps flew about 3000yards over you...rolled it... started to pull up dropped bombs around a 20 degree angle as i was around -1500 on the dive indicator
i also salvo'd 5 at 0.33 delay so no chance at a near miss
as for your orginal post... "lanc stukas" are merely something of the peoples imagination you can do it with any plane... 10-15 degree dive is all you need but most people say its 45-70 il simplify
people: 45° 70° 90°
actuality: 10-15° 20-30° 45-65°
this goes hand and hand with many things... as for the record if you drop bombs at 90° they fall with you...meaning if you keep that dive for 1000feet and touch one you blow yourself up again makin it very hard to pull off....it can be done yes... but most drops occur between 15-25degrees
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bombs released at about a 35 degree point... was the nose down at 90 at some point...sure but that does not mean it bombed you at 90 degrees
if your mad about the fact i bombed you(which i think i have this spot on as this post was made not 15minutes after i killed you in said lancs)
for your answer... i killed engines dropped flaps flew about 3000yards over you...rolled it... started to pull up dropped bombs around a 20 degree angle as i was around -1500 on the dive indicator
i also salvo'd 5 at 0.33 delay so no chance at a near miss
as for your orginal post... "lanc stukas" are merely something of the peoples imagination you can do it with any plane... 10-15 degree dive is all you need but most people say its 45-70 il simplify
people: 45° 70° 90°
actuality: 10-15° 20-30° 45-65°
this goes hand and hand with many things... as for the record if you drop bombs at 90° they fall with you...meaning if you keep that dive for 1000feet and touch one you blow yourself up again makin it very hard to pull off....it can be done yes... but most drops occur between 15-25degrees
Based off of the Lancaster handbook he has a point with anything steeper than 30 degrees in a dive.
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i think people who dive bomb in bombers are skill less in level bombing--they miss there target so they drop down and dive on it..
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bombs released at about a 35 degree point... was the nose down at 90 at some point...sure but that does not mean it bombed you at 90 degrees
if your mad about the fact i bombed you(which i think i have this spot on as this post was made not 15minutes after i killed you in said lancs)
for your answer... i killed engines dropped flaps flew about 3000yards over you...rolled it... started to pull up dropped bombs around a 20 degree angle as i was around -1500 on the dive indicator
i also salvo'd 5 at 0.33 delay so no chance at a near miss
as for your orginal post... "lanc stukas" are merely something of the peoples imagination you can do it with any plane... 10-15 degree dive is all you need but most people say its 45-70 il simplify
people: 45° 70° 90°
actuality: 10-15° 20-30° 45-65°
this goes hand and hand with many things... as for the record if you drop bombs at 90° they fall with you...meaning if you keep that dive for 1000feet and touch one you blow yourself up again makin it very hard to pull off....it can be done yes... but most drops occur between 15-25degrees
You obviously didnt watch the video and no you didnt kill me.
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At first I thought this was a violation of posting rule 10 or 3, but I see I was wrong.... This was the thread I was thinking about. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,221368.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,221368.0.html) (circa 2007).
I am guessing HTC isn't going to make any changes on this one...