Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: BnZs on March 26, 2014, 10:33:28 PM
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Basically because tapping the button 3-5 times when you need to reel them in quickly can be awkward.
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Basically because tapping the button 3-5 times when you need to reel them in quickly can be awkward.
Not unrealistic. Raising and lowering flaps takes a certain amount of time and is a moderate distraction from whatever else you might be doing.
- oldman
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Basically because tapping the button 3-5 times when you need to reel them in quickly can be awkward.
If you can use a program like thrustmaster's Target software, it is easy to program just have the command sent over and over again like say five times to match the maximum number of flap positions you might use. One press and they go all up.
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Not unrealistic. Raising and lowering flaps takes a certain amount of time and is a moderate distraction from whatever else you might be doing.
- oldman
I'm not suggesting we change the *time* to deploy/raise flaps mind you. It does take time for the hydraulics to work. But on most planes you could command the flaps to be raised just by pulling the handle back to the raised position, yes?
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What I think he wants is like we have shift-w for GV's to go to full speed. He's looking for full retract though
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What I think he wants is like we have shift-w for GV's to go to full speed. He's looking for full retract though
I dunno much about GVs. Pretty much looking for something equivalent to just pulling the flaps handle back to the up position and letting them reel in.
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I'm not suggesting we change the *time* to deploy/raise flaps mind you. It does take time for the hydraulics to work. But on most planes you could command the flaps to be raised just by pulling the handle back to the raised position, yes?
Don't know, I've never flown one of these WWII planes like Colmbo, Puma and Hitech have. I imagine that the flap control was located in different places on different planes, and that some were mechanical, some hydraulic and, for all I know, some electric. My point was mainly that changing flap position in flight is a distraction from whatever else you're doing, roughly equivalent, I imagine, to having to push a button multiple times in this game.
- oldman
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not on the 109s and a couple of other planes.
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Basically because tapping the button 3-5 times when you need to reel them in quickly can be awkward.
not historical-sorry.
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Basically because tapping the button 3-5 times when you need to reel them in quickly can be awkward.
Wow! Is the game to hard for you that it needs to be dumbed down some more because hitting a button 3-5 time is just to over the top?
The GVs have the "full forward" button and many complain they want the stand transmission back so they can hit the button 3-5 times to get going.
Ya just cant make every body happy I guess.
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not historical-sorry.
Nor very realistic, dependent on the situation. From an energy management perspective, it could be argued that being in a situation of maneuvering with full flaps and needing to clean all the way to "up" would indicate a lack of energy preservation and/or inadequate BFM to maintain an overall advantage on the opponent. :salute
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yep-i have the flaps up-down programed to buttons on my throttle,no problem with this
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Not unrealistic. Raising and lowering flaps takes a certain amount of time and is a moderate distraction from whatever else you might be doing.
- oldman
:huh you have got to kidding.
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Nor very realistic, dependent on the situation. From an energy management perspective, it could be argued that being in a situation of maneuvering with full flaps and needing to clean all the way to "up" would indicate a lack of energy preservation and/or inadequate BFM to maintain an overall advantage on the opponent. :salute
yep i have full forward programed to by throttle and stop/reverse to my joystick and instant stop to my throttle----------in case you haven't noticed by now--i have an x-52
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Fugi, before I answer this I must I find myself wondering if you actually know anything about how flaps work in any airplane, or are arguing with the amount of knowledge you vehemently insisted that a P-51 pulling 6 gs at high speed turns better than some other plane pulling 6 gs at high speed :D
Many planes deploy and retract flaps with a handle. The entire button system is unrealistic for those planes if you want to go that route. I could have asked for flaps to be on an axis like throttle but that would require more coad. In any case a control configuration wish like this is no more unrealistic than being able to hit a button and auto trim for climb or level flight. Some of you seem to be under the erroneous impression I am asking for the flaps to function faster than they actually would. This is not the case. My idea is actually closer to how flaps function on many planes.
Wow! Is the game to hard for you that it needs to be dumbed down some more because hitting a button 3-5 time is just to over the top?
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not historical-sorry.
Got to 26:20 of this film to see how the flaps of the P-51 were operated historically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caJtGXMdxGM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caJtGXMdxGM)
It is a simple handle you move back and forth to your desired flap settings. Commanding all flaps to raise (or all flaps to lower, for that matter) is no more complicated than using the throttle on your joystick. Now HTC can't simply put flaps on an axis of course because they've made the decision for gameplay to have flaps auto retract at speeds they are not rated for. In any case, as you can see what I wished for is if anything a little closer to reality, not further.
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not on the 109s and a couple of other planes.
Indeed, but nothing can *perfectly* simulate all the quirks of every plane. You can't make everyone flying a 109 turn a little wheel to operate flaps, for instance.
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Another issue with flap deployment is the airspeed restriction for a given flap setting in flying the real thing. Not sure if HT has the real world speeds/settings programmed for each particular aircraft in game.
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Another issue with flap deployment is the airspeed restriction for a given flap setting in flying the real thing. Not sure if HT has the real world speeds/settings programmed for each particular aircraft in game.
I get why the flap policy is the way it is, I really do. Their options are to auto-restrict us to what the book restrictions were (to the best of their knowledge) or try to "guess" exactly where excess airspeed would actually damage the flaps. I think they have the best work-around. It is kind of like how they limit you to historically specified WEP times, instead of arbitrarily and unrealistically deciding high power settings should destroy your engine after 15 minutes or the like. In that context, my wish doesn't make anything less realistic, if anything it takes things slightly in the other direction.
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On aircraft that you could do that too in real life that'd be fine. The Mustang you can put the handle to whatever notch you need. The B-17 and B-24 you can't do that, for the B-17 with it's electric flaps you have to hold the switch in the UP or DOWN position until the desired flap deflection is reached; same for the B-24 except the flaps are hydraulic and you're holding a handle in the correct position --- and the flap handle on the B-24 is a bit tricky to use so getting the flaps "just right" takes some practice.
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:huh you have got to kidding.
Nope, I'm not kidding.
- oldman
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From an energy management perspective, it could be argued that being in a situation of maneuvering with full flaps and needing to clean all the way to "up" would indicate a lack of energy preservation and/or inadequate BFM to maintain an overall advantage on the opponent. :salute
If one is involved in nose-to-nose turning than full flaps for minimum turn radius usually makes sense. If the opponent straightens out and you have to follow at these usually low speeds then getting them all in to gain as much energy as possible makes sense. If nose to nose becomes a nose to tail chase, then getting to whatever flap setting allows best sustained turn rate makes sense.
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If one is involved in nose-to-nose turning than full flaps for minimum turn radius usually makes sense. If the opponent straightens out and you have to follow at these usually low speeds then getting them all in to gain as much energy as possible makes sense. If nose to nose becomes a nose to tail chase, then getting to whatever flap setting allows best sustained turn rate makes sense.
True. In addition, the skillful application of BFM can allow one to maintain energy state and turn rate without extending all of the available flaps.
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True. In addition, the skillful application of BFM can allow one to maintain energy state and turn rate without extending all of the available flaps.
Extending all flaps usually reduces sustained turn rate, but usually increases the minimum turn RADIUS. Those are the immutable laws of physics, unalterable by any amount of skill. :D
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Extending all flaps usually reduces sustained turn rate, but usually increases the minimum turn RADIUS. Those are the immutable laws of physics, not having much to do with skill. :D
...and greatly increases drag. Skill is always a factor. A common saying the world of fighter pilots is "Hamburger is still hamburger, no matter what you wrap it in". :salute
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...and greatly increases drag. Skill is always a factor. A common saying the world of fighter pilots is "Hamburger is still hamburger, no matter what you wrap it in". :salute
Drag is generally a good thing in the situations where one has any business getting large amounts of flap out. I've tried countering the "fly slow" game with energy and geometry or by going with the fly slow game myself. Countering with the same isn't inherently "better", but it's often quicker at times when getting the kill NOW can make a difference.
Ah, but we're not real fighter pilots, so there is the rub. The game is mostly just knowing what the principles of physics and geometry imply you should do. And even that is no more than half I'd guess-I've seen a guy go from being hopeless to decent just because I showed him how to set his stick up a little better. It makes you think. :salute
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Ah, but we're not real fighter pilots, so there is the rub. The game is mostly just knowing what the principles of physics and geometry imply. And even that is no more than half I'd guess-I've seen a guy go from being hopeless to decent just because I showed him how to set his stick up a little better. It makes you think. :salute
Some are and it shouldn't be a rub, if one has the desire to learn the real world applications. Agree that equipment set up is important in game. That eliminates a great deal of frustration for someone new to the game. Good on ya for being helpful. :aok
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Ah, but we're not real fighter pilots
Heh.
- oldman
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Fugi, before I answer this I must I find myself wondering if you actually know anything about how flaps work in any airplane, or are arguing with the amount of knowledge you used while vehemently insisting that a P-51 pulling 6 gs at high speed turns better than some other plane pulling 6 gs at high speed :D
Many planes deploy and retract flaps with a handle. The entire button system is unrealistic for those planes if you want to go that route. I could have asked for flaps to be on an axis like throttle but that would require more coad. In any case a control configuration wish like this is no more unrealistic than being able to hit a button and auto trim for climb or level flight. Some of you seem to be under the erroneous impression I am asking for the flaps to function faster than they actually would. This is not the case. My idea is actually closer to how flaps function on many planes.
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Fugi, before I answer this I must I find myself wondering if you actually know anything about how flaps work in any airplane, or are arguing with the amount of knowledge you vehemently insisted that a P-51 pulling 6 gs at high speed turns better than some other plane pulling 6 gs at high speed :D
Many planes deploy and retract flaps with a handle. The entire button system is unrealistic for those planes if you want to go that route. I could have asked for flaps to be on an axis like throttle but that would require more coad. In any case a control configuration wish like this is no more unrealistic than being able to hit a button and auto trim for climb or level flight. Some of you seem to be under the erroneous impression I am asking for the flaps to function faster than they actually would. This is not the case. My idea is actually closer to how flaps function on many planes.
Well as none of us are flying a plane it is unimportant how much knowledge I have about how flaps in a plane work.
This is a game and by pushing buttons, and yanking joysticks we get certain results in the game. To me this wish is like many others where players can't be bothered with using the proscribed button combinations and so ask for more and more "short cuts".
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Indeed, but nothing can *perfectly* simulate all the quirks of every plane. You can't make everyone flying a 109 turn a little wheel to operate flaps, for instance.
so the current system is a good compromise...problem solved.
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Pressing 3-5 times the button takes so much time... :neener:
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Pressing 3-5 times the button takes so much time... :neener:
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It is not a matter of time, it is a matter of awkward X-Box-fashion thumb-dancing for a function that in reality was most commonly handled by simple lever. It is absurdity to decry my simple request too "unrealistic" in a game with one-button engine start/stop, autolevel and autoclimb, automatic trim, automatic takeoff, one button WEP on/off, auto-retracting flaps, etc.
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so the current system is a good compromise...problem solved.
It is really not. Putting flaps on an axis would come closer for the 109.