Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on April 11, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
-
Going in another direction from the mass production thread let me ask ; What aircraft that had the biggest impact in the war do we still NOT have in AH?
Off the top of my Head I'd say the Beau but I havnt studied it.
-
Pe-2, Wellington or Beaufighter.
EDIT:
Or PBY-5
-
Yak -1 ?
-
Worthy to be in AH? As in able to be used to some degree of effectiveness? Easy.
Take your pick between the Wellington or Pe-2. I vote for the Wellington. :aok
Sooner or later the Pe-2 should get the mod.
-
Pe-2, Fw-200.
-
Pe-2, Wellington or Beaufighter.
EDIT:
Or PBY-5
I agree with this, but think the Pe-2 will be a hanger Queen like the 111, except for scenarios. It was junk in fighter ace. No thanks.
-
Pe-2, Fw-200.
Fw200 had little impact on the war, even at its peak effectiveness early in the war in the Atlantic.
-
No direct effect on the war, but a game changer in the game.
P-51A and Mustang Mk.Ia
Faster than B or D below 8k, lighter and more maneuverable. The Mk.Ia has four hispanos...
Historically significant aircraft missing...
F4F-3
P-47D-21. Paddle prop razor back
P-38H P-38G handling with much better performance
High Altitude 109G models
Do 217
Ju 288 (fast medium bomber)
Lagg-3
MiG-3
Yak-1 (Yak-7b is similar in performance)
Fw 190A3
Spitfire LF Mk.V (clipped wings)
He 219
Ju 88C-6 (potent bomber killer
Ki-44
-
Fw200 had little impact on the war, even at its peak effectiveness early in the war in the Atlantic.
As far as I know, the convoy hunting was the biggest threat the UK faced during the war, as said by Churchill himself. The Condor was widely used to spot those convoys, which would later be hunted down by U-boot wolfpacks. Some argue that the PBY sunk a lot of tonnage, but we can't forget that german u-boots alone sank almost three times the tonnage sunk by all allied countries. And a lot of those ships whent down thanks to airplanes like the Fw-200. It was ultimately replaced by some versions of 88s, 290s and 177s, but it set the first stone. That's why I consider it important.
-
As far as I know, the convoy hunting was the biggest threat the UK faced during the war, as said by Churchill himself. The Condor was widely used to spot those convoys, which would later be hunted down by U-boot wolfpacks. Some argue that the PBY sunk a lot of tonnage, but we can't forget that german u-boots alone sank almost three times the tonnage sunk by all allied countries. And a lot of those ships whent down thanks to airplanes like the Fw-200. It was ultimately replaced by some versions of 88s, 290s and 177s, but it set the first stone. That's why I consider it important.
Good info :rock
Nevertheless the wings fell off a lot :old:
-
Widewing,
I think most of those would be very nice additions to AH, but I can't agree that they were all historically significant. The He219, for example, accomplished very little.
-
Ju52 - thousands made and no axis representation.
High-alt 109g (höhen)
190a2 (Focke-wulf 1941-1942)
beaufighter
Yak1
Lagg-3
Early La-5
Ju-288
p47c
vehicles
Stug3
Kv1
-
No direct effect on the war, but a game changer in the game.
P-51A and Mustang Mk.Ia
Faster than B or D below 8k, lighter and more maneuverable. The Mk.Ia has four hispanos...
Historically significant aircraft missing...
F4F-3
P-47D-21. Paddle prop razor back
P-38H P-38G handling with much better performance
High Altitude 109G models
Do 217
Ju 288 (fast medium bomber)
Lagg-3
MiG-3
Yak-1 (Yak-7b is similar in performance)
Fw 190A3
Spitfire LF Mk.V (clipped wings)
He 219
Ju 88C-6 (potent bomber killer
Ki-44
Good list all-around. However you're missing the SB2C. Even if its performance wasn't spectacular, it was still a significant aircraft, seeing as it equipped all Navy dive-bomber squadrons from 1944 through the end of the war. I'd also add the Ki-45 (Japan's primary heavy fighter) to the list.
-
Ju-52 transport aircraft. Im pretty sure it had a very large effect on the war.
-
As far as I know, the convoy hunting was the biggest threat the UK faced during the war, as said by Churchill himself. The Condor was widely used to spot those convoys, which would later be hunted down by U-boot wolfpacks. Some argue that the PBY sunk a lot of tonnage, but we can't forget that german u-boots alone sank almost three times the tonnage sunk by all allied countries. And a lot of those ships whent down thanks to airplanes like the Fw-200. It was ultimately replaced by some versions of 88s, 290s and 177s, but it set the first stone. That's why I consider it important.
In the first year. Then the maritime strike threat from the Germans tailed off. Partially due to problems with the Condors, partially because they had limited numbers due to Doenitz insisting they be used for recce only. He didnt want to risk airframes on attacks, especially since they were so fragile to begin with. Also its replacement, JU-290, came to little to late. The JU-88 was a good strike platform but had limited range, production problems, and got ate up by Mossies and Beaus. Also I think the JU-88 was wanted in a lot of versions and in a lot of places.
By the time the Allies were able to float escort carriers it was over. The chance to strike allied shipping from the air in a significant manner was virtually impossible.
-
CAC Boomerang.
Savoia Marchetti SM79
Kawanishi H8K
-
As far as I know, the convoy hunting was the biggest threat the UK faced during the war, as said by Churchill himself. The Condor was widely used to spot those convoys, which would later be hunted down by U-boot wolfpacks. Some argue that the PBY sunk a lot of tonnage, but we can't forget that german u-boots alone sank almost three times the tonnage sunk by all allied countries. And a lot of those ships whent down thanks to airplanes like the Fw-200. It was ultimately replaced by some versions of 88s, 290s and 177s, but it set the first stone. That's why I consider it important.
U-boats sank 14.69 million tons (all Allies), losing 785 submarines of 1,158 deployed. That's 12,686 tons per sub, and 18,713 tons sunk per loss.
USN Subs sank 5.63 million tons (Japanese only), losing 48 of 233 submarines deployed. That's 24,120 tons per sub, and 117,083 tons sunk per loss.
So, while the U-boat campaign is very impressive in size and scope, the U.S. campaign against Japan was far more efficient, and markedly more successful at strangling the enemy war effort. The powerful U-boat effort was so vast that it forced the Allies to respond with innovative anti-sub technology, weapons and tactics that eventually crushed the U-boat threat. Losing bases in France was the last major blow. If we look at Japan, we see that they were not only unable to respond on the Allied scale with ships and aircraft, they never seemed to fully grasp anti-sub methodology (as utilized by the Allied navies).
There's an interesting paper on the above and more at: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/wwii-campaigns.html (http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/wwii-campaigns.html)
-
CAC Boomerang.
Savoia Marchetti SM79
Kawanishi H8K
If any fighter had minimal affect on the war, it was the Boomerang. I don't believe it shot down anything. It saw use in close support and strafing in New Guinea and Borneo. It was effective, but very limited in it's contribution to the war.
On the other hand, the other two saw a great deal of service. However, since we don't have water landing as an option (or more importantly, taking off), I don't see the H8K in the game without a major change to the programming.
-
However, since we don't have water landing as an option (or more importantly, taking off), I don't see the H8K in the game without a major change to the programming.
I suspect that the PT-Boat code would work pretty well for water take offs and landings.
-
The thing is, there is already a major change being worked on by HTC. Water will be different, judging by the video. :aok
-
So, while the U-boat campaign is very impressive in size and scope, the U.S. campaign against Japan was far more efficient, and markedly more successful
While everyone knows that I'm not a big fan of the Third Reich, the question has been raised: What if US subs had to face what the Nazi subs had to face?
- oldman
-
While everyone knows that I'm not a big fan of the Third Reich, the question has been raised: What if US subs had to face what the Nazi subs had to face?
- oldman
I sincerely doubt we'd have done any better than the Germans, and quite possibly worse.
-
There's an interesting paper on the above and more at: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/wwii-campaigns.html (http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/wwii-campaigns.html)
Now I got some interesting reading for the weekend! :aok
There's a book that that follows the Luftwaffe's bomber usage (and development) year by yeah, mostly reconaissance aircraft and flying boats. Shame that I've only found it in spanish... It's called Objetivo América, by Manfred Greihl. It's centered on the german plans to bomb the USA, but since thay all failed most of the material is on the use of long-range bombers by the Luftwaffe. It's even got a chapter about mid-air refueling, quite an interesting read! There's blueprints and photos of some stuff that's hard to find. But I mostly recommend this read because it has the transcripts of conversations in the german Air Ministry, like the brilliant moments where heavy bombers where laughed at (those will never affect the way! silly americans :old:), or when heads of different design bureaus (Messerschmitt, Dornier, Arado) outright called each other names or laughed at the contender's bombers proposals. It really helps understanding germany's failure to manufacture a heavy bomber in 9 years of war! :headscratch:
Now that I checked...I have two copies of this book. Don't ask why, I don't really know! Maybe I'm a bit of an impulsive buyer :uhoh
(http://s11.postimg.org/6m97qztcj/IMG_20140413_103701.jpg)
Here's one of the interesting illustrations. It shows the range of several bombers, taking off from France.
(http://s11.postimg.org/x8lofyxjn/IMG_20140413_103914.jpg)
The range of the Fw-200 goes from 1500 to 2200km, depending on bomb load and extra fuel tanks carried. I believe this map was from 1942, there's some more maps (circa 1943-44) that also show ranges for Ju-290, He-177 and even Me-264 if they were used as reconaissance machines over the Atlantic.
And I'm done with my mighty wall of text...for now! :old:
-
They were much more effective flying out of Norway when operating against allied convoys. The JU390 or Me264 never made it past prototype but even if they had the presence of escort carriers would have also limited their effectiveness I believe.
If we look at Japan, we see that they were not only unable to respond on the Allied scale with ships and aircraft, they never seemed to fully grasp anti-sub methodology (as utilized by the Allied navies).
Technical, strategic, and Industrial limitations werent the only limitations that hurt the Japanese. Cultural ones were just as damaging. I think convoy escorting was considered a dishonorable career move by many in the IJN, which was the most forward thinking arm of the Japanese armed forces. I think there was just no enthusiasm for it. The concept of a glorious death while fighting the one huge decisive battle is not a really good naval strategy. This was probably a factor in their failure as developing effective anti-sub operations.
Not that it mattered. When they finally saw disaster staring them in the face they were not able to produce neither enough anti-sub platforms nor technically enough advanced ones either. Thats why they did a crash production course on those crummy little coastal defense type ships.
So I think your statement is true due to cultural reasons, as so many of their failures were, and also by the fact they just didnt think a long war was possible. They werent very good at adopting either as conditions changed. But still they had to be aware of the USN submarine fleet, as well as America's production capability, as well as their own heavy dependence on import by sea, most of all oil. So who really knows what they were thinking?
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/wwii-campaigns.html
Great read.
-
Ju-52 transport aircraft. Im pretty sure it had a very large effect on the war.
:aok
-
Would like to see the Cr42 and Gladiator or the M.C. 200.
CAC Boomerang.
Savoia Marchetti SM79
Kawanishi H8K
...ya ok but no Boomerang.
-
:aok
It was actually just a bad joke. Tante Ju would be a pretty bad hangar queen. Some better ones down there:
Wellington, Beaufighter, Halifax
Cr-42, G-55
D-520
Lagg-3, Pe-2
109/AS, Ju-188
Ki-44, J2M
and so on
-
Beau
F4F-3
Ki-44
A-36
-
If any fighter had minimal affect on the war, it was the Boomerang. I don't believe it shot down anything. It saw use in close support and strafing in New Guinea and Borneo. It was effective, but very limited in it's contribution to the war.
On the other hand, the other two saw a great deal of service. However, since we don't have water landing as an option (or more importantly, taking off), I don't see the H8K in the game without a major change to the programming.
So what! ......there were approximately 8-10 ta152H1 that made it in the war without getting sabotaged or blown up by the US and saw service for what a month? and never flew it's intended purpose?
Plus Boomerang was used for 3 years in 5 full squads and was built 250 in number.
Plus the Australians and Kiwi's that support this game would love it and deserve it.
Plus it would be fun as hell.
Plus I would love to fly it.
++++1
-
No direct effect on the war, but a game changer in the game.
P-51A and Mustang Mk.Ia
Faster than B or D below 8k, lighter and more maneuverable. The Mk.Ia has four hispanos...
Historically significant aircraft missing...
F4F-3
P-47D-21. Paddle prop razor back
P-38H P-38G handling with much better performance
High Altitude 109G models
Do 217
Ju 288 (fast medium bomber)
Lagg-3
MiG-3
Yak-1 (Yak-7b is similar in performance)
Fw 190A3
Spitfire LF Mk.V (clipped wings)
He 219
Ju 88C-6 (potent bomber killer
Ki-44
+1000 on the 51's
MS-406
D-520
Hawk75
-
biggest impact in the war do we still NOT have in AH?
Was the criteria.
Ive always been pro-D520 but it had very little impact, what few actually made it to front line combat.
The Hawk probably more so. The French flew it well as did the Finns. In fact I think the Hawk 75 was flown by quite a few countries. When it had 2 0.50s and 4 .30 cal guns it couldnt be underestimated in the early war. The 0.50s were in the center line and were effective.
Both machines kept me in Battleground Europe for probably longer then i would have been. The Hawk 75 was just a great plane to fly in that game. It could turn with anything in the LW, had very good dive and roll, and was heavily armed for early war.
-
P-51A and Mustang Mk.Ia
Faster than B or D below 8k, lighter and more maneuverable. The Mk.Ia has four hispanos...
I've long wanted to see this added, primarily just for the laughs over the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would ensue.
Widewing, in your opinion how would this aircraft compare to the LA7, arguably the best under 8k fighter in the game....in fact, there really isn't that much "arguably" about it, at least IMO. Is it more maneuverable than the LA7 with regards to roll/turn rates? How does it stack up to the current plane set so far as speed and acceleration sub 8k? I think that if it was at least close to the LA7 in terms of accel/speed at low alt, and was close or even a bit better so far as roll and rate/radius, with the 4 20mm laser weapons of mass destruction, it would be THE go to plane for under 8k, which is a huge percentage of MA fights as we all know.
No better person to ask than WW, so hopefully you can respond Widewing, as I'd love to know the specifics of how this early version of the Mustang would truly stack up in game. As I was saying I would love to see it added, and not just for my semi-serious humor related reasons, it'd be really nice to have an aircraft other than the LA7, which could perform LA7-ish tasks.
-
My preference is:
Yak-1 (For Eastern Front mid-war, Yak-1 was very important)
B6N (Most-produced Japanese torpedo bomber, taking over for the early-war B5N)
D4Y (Most-produced Japanese dive bomber, taking over for early-war D3A)
Pe-2 (Most-produced Soviet attack plane other than Il-2, for Eastern Front)
TBD (Important for Battle of Coral Sea and Midway)
Beaufighter (Multi-role, would add a lot of flavor to events)
-
For me I think:
- Yak-1
- Pe-2
- Beaufighter
Not in any specific order
-
Most definitely Beaufighter, one of the most historically significant aircraft of the war :old:
-
No direct effect on the war, but a game changer in the game.
P-51A and Mustang Mk.Ia
Faster than B or D below 8k, lighter and more maneuverable. The Mk.Ia has four hispanos...
Historically significant aircraft missing...
F4F-3
P-47D-21. Paddle prop razor back
P-38H P-38G handling with much better performance
High Altitude 109G models
Do 217
Ju 288 (fast medium bomber)
Lagg-3
MiG-3
Yak-1 (Yak-7b is similar in performance)
Fw 190A3
Spitfire LF Mk.V (clipped wings)
He 219
Ju 88C-6 (potent bomber killer
Ki-44
a mustang with hispano's? Yes please and the m
Ki-44 double yess