Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: artik on May 13, 2014, 06:22:46 AM

Title: Warning: Malware may be in this thread. DO NOT OPEN IT!
Post by: artik on May 13, 2014, 06:22:46 AM
I want to run an interesting game: build an air force for virtual country based on the planes available in AH - but with their real properties:

For example Me-262 had problematic engines - not AH ones. The Me-163 would blown up frequently on the ground and had very long turnaround time.

The constrains:

- Think you would fly this planes as well - so no "cannon fodder"
- Think of fixed budget - if you want all the bombers be B-29 it they would drink your budget in both planes as fuel
- Think of real world reliability
- Think of real world flying and no AH
- Prepare the force for both defense and offense, from the sea attack and from the ground
- No need to create navy, or transportation arms (AH has quite few capable naval planes and only 1 cargo plane)
- Provide the rationale for the selection



As a reference, samples of WW2 prices:

B-29   US$639,188
B-17   US$238,329
Mustang US$50,985
Lanc   £45-50,000 ~ $200,000




My own selection:

Me-262 - 35% - air superiority and interception - also it is a dangerous plane and has many maintenance problem, but its clear superiority overcomes other problems and costs. Also jet fuel is more affordable than avgas.

P-51D - 15% - long range escort and close support - most capable fighter with long range and decent bomb load

Ar-234 - 5% - almost uninterceptable recon and pin-point strike

B-29 - 5% - very long range strike for special missions - small numbers due to high cost.

Mosquito XVI - 35% - long range recon, tactical and strategical bomber - much cheaper than B-17 & others, much more survivable due to high speed and yet has decent bomb load - comparable to B-17.

F4U-1C - 15% - close air support that does not require escort. It has radial engine making it much more survivable, it has 4 canons that are great for strafing, good ord load.

Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: SilverZ06 on May 13, 2014, 06:29:29 AM
I'm pretty sure this has already been done. ...... in WWII. :aok
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: artik on May 13, 2014, 06:37:23 AM
I'm pretty sure this has already been done. ...... in WWII. :aok

In WWII we had constrains, unequal resources, different goals and strategy. More than that - they hadn't learned WW2 lessons yet  :neener:
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Saxman on May 13, 2014, 07:35:36 AM
Amazed you'd take the F4U-1C over the -4, which is a dramatically better performer.
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: artik on May 13, 2014, 07:54:15 AM
Amazed you'd take the F4U-1C over the -4, which is a dramatically better performer.

Yes but 4x20mm hispanos are much more efficient against soft targets - it is ground support role. I'd take Templest if it had radial engine, but with liquid cooled engine it is prone to even small caliber ground fire.
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: caldera on May 13, 2014, 04:03:25 PM
I would forgo heavy bombers entirely and stick with a tactical bombing campaign.

Bombers: B-26, A-20, Mossie XVI

Ground attack:  P-47D-40, Mossie VI, Hellcat

Escort: P-51D

Interceptor: P-47M, La-7, Spit VIII
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Plawranc on May 13, 2014, 06:56:14 PM
I would forgo heavy bombers entirely and stick with a tactical bombing campaign.

Bombers: B-26, A-20, Mossie XVI

Ground attack:  P-47D-40, Mossie VI, Hellcat

Escort: P-51D

Interceptor: P-47M, La-7, Spit VIII

You know..... I think someone else thought of that idea. As far as I recall it didn't end well.
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Lusche on May 13, 2014, 06:59:35 PM
I would need much more information about the strategic situation... you now, geography, probable opponents and such stuff. No airforce is built in a total vacuum ;)
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Arlo on May 13, 2014, 07:10:23 PM
I would need much more information about the strategic situation... you now, geography, probable opponents and such stuff. No airforce is built in a total vacuum ;)

Now you're just sayin' that because of the air part.  ;)

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/299/4/b/jedi_starfighter_2560x1600_by_stevenbinion-d31jqhq.png)

The upcoming scenario excited me because I thought it would include an element that ROC and I had discussed earlier - an
Axis and Allies style of play where COs on each side used points (bucks) to procure their planes, GVs and fleets for each frame. They would also use those logistical points to conduct research and development. Will the Germans develop and build the 262 sooner? I would anticipate that would be tried. Would the Americans do the same with the B-29? The British with the Spit XVI? The Russians with the TU-2 or LA-7? The Japanese with the Nikki? The Italians with .... erm .....

 :D
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: GScholz on May 14, 2014, 09:57:22 AM
Me-262 - 35% - air superiority and interception - also it is a dangerous plane and has many maintenance problem, but its clear superiority overcomes other problems and costs. Also jet fuel is more affordable than avgas.


You overstate the problems. The 262 was easy to fly, and very easy to maintain. Engines lasted for only 5-6 sorties, but were easy to replace. The problem was producing enough engines with Germany's war situation. Your fantasy air force does not have that problem, or it would also affect all your other aircraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxRR2KgY5mo
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: caldera on May 14, 2014, 06:46:54 PM
You know..... I think someone else thought of that idea. As far as I recall it didn't end well.

You are so right.  All they needed were B-29s and KC-135s to refuel them over the Atlantic (and Siberia) and they would have won for sure!
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: ROC on May 14, 2014, 07:26:44 PM
Quote
an element that ROC and I had discussed earlier
That is in the development stage at this time Arlo.  It's a very complex and intriguing design concept.  I'm testing some things in this particular scenario that support the underlying framework that a resource based event would require.
If, for example, the COs can handle plane allocations over simple "2 life" restrictions, then we have opened the door to "here's 25.5 Billion Dollars, and planes cost x,y or z, have a blast". 

We peaked the scenario design concepts as they were formed, so now, we are at the base level of the new foundation, and we go up from here :) 
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Arlo on May 14, 2014, 07:34:38 PM
That is in the development stage at this time Arlo.  It's a very complex and intriguing design concept.  I'm testing some things in this particular scenario that support the underlying framework that a resource based event would require.
If, for example, the COs can handle plane allocations over simple "2 life" restrictions, then we have opened the door to "here's 25.5 Billion Dollars, and planes cost x,y or z, have a blast". 

We peaked the scenario design concepts as they were formed, so now, we are at the base level of the new foundation, and we go up from here :) 

Ohhhh yeah (BIG smile)  :D
Title: Re: Mind Game - build an air force using planes available in AH.
Post by: Skuzzy on May 15, 2014, 06:38:17 AM
This thread is locked as Chrome browsers are reporting it contains malware.