Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ozrocker on June 19, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
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Everyone knows the posting/chat rules, yet they always want to push to see
what they can get away with.
Then have the gall to complain when they get muted :headscratch:
Don't discuss things that are a no-no and you won't get muted :aok
Quite simple.
If you're not sure if something is violation the posting or chat rules,
read the "Posting Rules" :aok
We all know that Politics, Religion, etc. are a no-no.
Cursing on 200 as well.
When you violate common sense rules, expect the result :aok
:cheers: Oz
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:aok
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Rule 5
#
:old:
:neener:
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.
Sometimes you can call Liberals baby-hating, America-destroying commies, and get nothing. Others, you can say "the country is going to hell" and get a warning.
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.
I guess Mods aren't on 24/7. ;)
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.<snip>
This is only a problem for those who chose to violate the forums or game.
In the game, you roll the dice as there may or may not be a moderator around.
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.
Sometimes you can call Liberals baby-hating, America-destroying commies, and get nothing. Others, you can say "the country is going to hell" and get a warning.
And why would you need to do either? What has either statement have to do with the game. Do those types of discussions improve the gameplay somehow that I don't see? I can see a bit of verbal reparte' as heathy and fun from time to time but that is not what this is about.
I'm not your capitive audience. I log in to have some fun and be with friends. I shouldn't have to detune 200 to avoid seeing what the rule breakers post to dominate the channel. I shouldn't have to mute you, and wouldn't have to if you would just kindly, please, play by the rules.
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This is only a problem for those who chose to violate the forums or game.
In the game, you roll the dice as there may or may not be a moderator around.
Regardless, it allows some to get away with it. Then everyone monitoring 200 sees it going down and sees nothing happen to those perpetrating that heinous rule violation.
Some will assume mods don't care, and participate next time. Some will be annoyed at uneven application of the rules (this sometimes happens even when a mod is on), some will take part to try to spite the mods.
You can argue about how to fix it, or if it needs to be fixed. But the results are not unexpected.
Make a rule that your kids can't play tag in the house only on Wednesday and Friday on alternate weeks, and don't tell them about it, of course they're going to be confused and resentful when you yell at them.
Don't enforce a rule... Well then it's not a rule.
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.
Sometimes you can call Liberals baby-hating, America-destroying commies, and get nothing. Others, you can say "the country is going to hell" and get a warning.
See rule #14 :old:
:ahand
:bolt:
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Regardless, it allows some to get away with it. Then everyone monitoring 200 sees it going down and sees nothing happen to those perpetrating that heinous rule violation.
<snip>
You never know what is actually happening, unless the person chooses to make it public themselves. It is always after the fact.
Using the, "Hey, he got away with it" as a defense has never been a good idea.
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I think the problem is that the rules aren't equally and consistently enforced.
Sometimes you can call Liberals baby-hating, America-destroying commies, and get nothing. Others, you can say "the country is going to hell" and get a warning.
Well, players should have the maturity to keep topics that are irrelevant to the game, outside of the game. They attack other players and start obvious 'off rail' discussions, and get all mad when they get punished for it. Some people who comment on it get 'hit' by the moderator, however, I view it like this. If you contribute to the conversation, no matter which side you pick, you contributed and are no better than the one who started it. If you comment on it, you open the door to get nailed by the moderator for giving a reason for the starter of the subject to reply.
Most of the complaints I've heard on being 'muted' was a few mins to an hour, and in extreme cases a week. The problem is players look at it like they own the game, when they are actually renting to play it. They are playing in HTC's court, and get all mad if they get punished, but don't look at what they contributed to the argument (from starting it to various comments in aforementioned argument) but instead look down at HTC for enforcing their rules. And even then, a few mins to an hour isn't anything to complain about. If you can't live without talking to someone for that amount of time, then take a break and come back when you have a cool head.
If it's longer (like a week), then use that time to reflect. What gets me is those who 'suffer' the week penalty, and do the same actions and get that week penalty again! A revolving door...
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Mama says "don't pull the tiger by the tail and you won't get bit".shortly after that we had her committed.everyone knows a tiger may bite you no matter if you're pulling the tail or not..btw none of this story is true..I've just been up way to long..night night
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You never know what is actually happening, unless the person chooses to make it public themselves. It is always after the fact.
Using the, "Hey, he got away with it" as a defense has never been a good idea.
No, but predictably it happens. If you didn't see it coming, you should have.
You guys being the administrative staff of the game, you're always "right", but once again, I would argue that selective enforcement of a rule weakens the rule.
But then if you cared about strict enforcement, you would have a mod on 24/7.
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If you contribute to the conversation, no matter which side you pick, you contributed and are no better than the one who started it. If you comment on it, you open the door to get nailed by the moderator for giving a reason for the starter of the subject to reply.
agreed.. earlier this week I was guilty of chiming in on a political subject, which I usually avoid because I know how annoying it is.
I ended up openly requesting on 200 that I hoped a mod was on and would mute us :)
there was, and he did :aok :D
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agreed.. earlier this week I was guilty of chiming in on a political subject, which I usually avoid because I know how annoying it is.
I ended up openly requesting on 200 that I hoped a mod was on and would mute us :)
there was, and he did :aok :D
:aok
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I can see this one getting out of hand really quickly.
Let's just put this to bed.
If someone acts badly, they have made the choice to accept the consequences for their actions. It is irrelevant, as to whether or not a moderator is available.
There is no acceptable justification or rationalization for acting badly or inappropriately.
No, but predictably it happens. If you didn't see it coming, you should have.
You guys being the administrative staff of the game, you're always "right", but once again, I would argue that selective enforcement of a rule weakens the rule.
But then if you cared about strict enforcement, you would have a mod on 24/7.
It is not "selective" enforcement. That implies moderators chose not to act.
Five full time people just to babysit one arena 24/7. Does that make any sense to anyone?
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I can see this one getting out of hand really quickly.
Let's just put this to bed.
If someone acts badly, they have made the choice to accept the consequences for their actions. It is irrelevant, as to whether or not a moderator is available.
There is no acceptable justification or rationalization for acting badly or inappropriately.
It is not "selective" enforcement. That implies moderators chose not to act.
Five full time people just to babysit one arena 24/7. Does that make any sense to anyone?
That the player community lacks maturity to play nice and act appropriately. :old:
I think HTC do a fine job, they are human and can only do so much. To expect them to sit there and babysit supposedly full-grown adults, is quite sad.
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agreed.. earlier this week I was guilty of chiming in on a political subject, which I usually avoid because I know how annoying it is.
I ended up openly requesting on 200 that I hoped a mod was on and would mute us :)
there was, and he did :aok :D
:lol
:aok
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Let me be clear, I'm not trying to defend them.
And fine, inconsistent enforcement, have it your way. It still weakens the rule.
24/7 babysitters makes sense if you want the rules enforced 24/7. But then that's not a priority, it would seem. This isn't a criticism, simply an observation.
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so, oz is an in game admin..
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Five full time people just to babysit one arena 24/7. Does that make any sense to anyone?
Yes.
Reliance on the players is the way of AcesHigh, recruit some players to do the job.
There must be 20 sensible AH players around, just find them.
In the past I've been a mod in another game, and the mods in AH are a little inconsistent by comparison. "Sack of cheese its" ring a bell?
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There must be 20 sensible AH players around,
I would not bet on that :uhoh
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There must be 20 sensible AH players around, just find them.
More than that. Not all of the MA population tunes 200.
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Yes.
Reliance on the players is the way of AcesHigh, recruit some players to do the job.
There must be 20 sensible AH players around, just find them.
In the past I've been a mod in another game, and the mods in AH are a little inconsistent by comparison. "Sack of cheese its" ring a bell?
The moderators, themselves, are not inconsistent. That implies a moderator treats people differently. Not the case, at all. They are monitored, so we do know exactly what they do and do not do.
Are they always online? Nope.
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For a MMO I consider 5 moderators to be a very low number. EVE even has more branches/departments of in-game moderators than that.
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I have heard EVE is a tad larger than AH... :old:
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I have heard EVE is a tad larger than AH... :old:
Just a bit.
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The problem is that if one person violates the rules and insults another player and is not moderated, the target of the insult is in a position where he/she cannot respond in kind. This kind of justice only works if it is equal and universal. If you take away people's right to stand up for themselves in your chat system you must at all times provide moderation, or the result will be this kind of mess.
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Every player in every arena has the power to report offensive or non-game related text and voice communications. After a requisite number of reports is issued, an offending player is muted for a pre-determined length of time.
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And if a player really crosses the line, even a single screenshot sent in can do wonders... :old:
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Every player has tools to protect themselves from abuse. You do not need to be able to be abusive back. That does not solve the problem. It just makes it worse.
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Every player has tools to protect themselves from abuse. You do not need to be able to be abusive back. That does not solve the problem. It just makes it worse.
I agree completely, but where are these tools described in the available game documentation? What tools are available? What are the procedures for reporting abuse? I can't find this information in the Help section of your website, nor is it in the FAQ. Where does a new player (or an old one for that matter) go to learn the rules and how to report violations?
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And if a player really crosses the line, even a single screenshot sent in can do wonders... :old:
I've had issues with that before, but I do have a recent screen shot I would like to report. Thanks for the heads up! :aok
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And why would you need to do either? What has either statement have to do with the game. Do those types of discussions improve the gameplay somehow that I don't see? I can see a bit of verbal reparte' as heathy and fun from time to time but that is not what this is about.
I'm not your capitive audience. I log in to have some fun and be with friends. I shouldn't have to detune 200 to avoid seeing what the rule breakers post to dominate the channel. I shouldn't have to mute you, and wouldn't have to if you would just kindly, please, play by the rules.
Zoney please refrain from having common sense here. This isn't going to be mistaken for a think tank anytime soon. :rofl
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One issue I have seen is a player has a disagreement with an other or there is bad blood. One of the players grabs his friends and they all report the other player, both may be at fault but the one who acts first with the most friends gets the other player muted, now to me this seems unjust, and an abuse of the system.
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One issue I have seen is a player has a disagreement with an other or there is bad blood. One of the players grabs his friends and they all report the other player, both may be at fault but the one who acts first with the most friends gets the other player muted, now to me this seems unjust, and an abuse of the system.
You can then file a complaint with HTC, and if you were gang-reported unjustly, the mute will be lifted and the guilty people will be punished.
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It was not me that this happened to. That being said I didn't have film or I would have done just that.
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I agree completely, but where are these tools described in the available game documentation? What tools are available? What are the procedures for reporting abuse? I can't find this information in the Help section of your website, nor is it in the FAQ. Where does a new player (or an old one for that matter) go to learn the rules and how to report violations?
you know those messages you get when you log in into an arena, one of them advises you how to report a player's behavior.
semp
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It was not me that this happened to. That being said I didn't have film or I would have done just that.
You don't need film. Just hit the report button and they can check the logs and see what happened and dole out what ever punishment is merited.
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The problem is that if one person violates the rules and insults another player and is not moderated, the target of the insult is in a position where he/she cannot respond in kind. This kind of justice only works if it is equal and universal. If you take away people's right to stand up for themselves in your chat system you must at all times provide moderation, or the result will be this kind of mess.
The GMs in Eve don't monitor what is going on in chat 24/7, they only monitor what is going in chat once they receive a report of a violation. It would cost too much money and man power to monitor chat 24/7 in a game as large as Eve.
ack-ack
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The problem is that if one person violates the rules and insults another player and is not moderated, the target of the insult is in a position where he/she cannot respond in kind. This kind of justice only works if it is equal and universal. If you take away people's right to stand up for themselves in your chat system you must at all times provide moderation, or the result will be this kind of mess.
totally agree with you, let hitech give everybody's address so you visit the other player and truly stand up for yourself :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:.
we really do need sarcasm font.
semp
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The problem is that if one person violates the rules and insults another player and is not moderated, the target of the insult is in a position where he/she cannot respond in kind. This kind of justice only works if it is equal and universal
You know, just because one person says something ignorant and offensive does not mean they are due, or owed, a response. You do realize that most of the instigators are looking for a reaction. Going into it knowing this, is the person reacting to the instigator enabling them? Ignore them, it's really not that complicated a process. You have it within the game to control your reaction, and whether or not you continue to read the offending text. If you choose to continue reading it, and accept being insulted, it's on you. .report and .ignore and .getonwithlife
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and .getonwithlife
I must have been asleep and missed this specific dot command.... lol
All of you know, there will always be continuous new topics and posts about Mutes, until AH is no more....... been seeing the same ol repeated stuff for over 14 years... well not quiet that long, but close....... was hardly even a word about them back then, people coming here already knew of Good & Bad etiquette in the game ( and on the boards, most times )
TC
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Is someone mad at complainers? And themself complaining.? :rofl
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You know, just because one person says something ignorant and offensive does not mean they are due, or owed, a response.
They certainly are. Preferably by a moderator.
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They certainly are. Preferably by a moderator.
I would think your children would know that..
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I remember many years ago when I was in my 20's being pulled out of a group of speeders on the freeway and and issued a ticket. In my righteous indignation I just knew I had an iron clad case due to disparate prosecution. After carefully out lining my irrefutable position to the judge he looked up at me and said "well son my officers cant get em all, but he got you". I rather doubt that the mods are sitting there intently watching the screen for infractions, I bet that they take a leak, grab a beer and even do a little flying at times.
shamus
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Plain and simple on 200.
Moderate yourselves and someone won't have to do it for you :aok
You all know what's ok and what's a no-no :aok
:cheers: Oz
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so, oz is an in game admin..
No, I'm not. I have however been here for 12 years and have never
been muted Sir :aok
:cheers: Oz
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I agree completely, but where are these tools described in the available game documentation? What tools are available? What are the procedures for reporting abuse? I can't find this information in the Help section of your website, nor is it in the FAQ. Where does a new player (or an old one for that matter) go to learn the rules and how to report violations?
Right click on roster name, click report text or report voice chat :aok
A log will be created and reviewed.
:cheers: Oz
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I thought this thread was about people who can't talk... :confused:
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I thought this thread was about people who can't talk... :confused:
it's become a babbling brooke :rofl.. yup yup
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Right click on roster name, click report text or report voice chat :aok
A log will be created and reviewed.
:cheers: Oz
Thanks, I know. Been here a while now. :)
Was more concerned for the new guys who gets thrown into the proverbial meat grinder. After finally getting a few rungs up on the learning-curve ladder and gets a kill, perhaps a HO; gets bashed on 200 or private ch and knows none of the rules and has no "tools" available because he/she doesn't know they exist.
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I agree completely, but where are these tools described in the available game documentation? What tools are available? What are the procedures for reporting abuse? I can't find this information in the Help section of your website, nor is it in the FAQ. Where does a new player (or an old one for that matter) go to learn the rules and how to report violations?
That's fair. I'll get a video up on our Youtube channel this weekend covering that topic and point to it from the FAQ and help forums.
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I am usually only careful of what I say if I see that my father or one of my sons is playing at the same time. And usually people who are willing to open their trap shouldn't whine about being muted for it.
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Everyone knows the posting/chat rules, yet they always want to push to see
what they can get away with.
Then have the gall to complain when they get muted :headscratch:
Don't discuss things that are a no-no and you won't get muted :aok
Quite simple.
If you're not sure if something is violation the posting or chat rules,
read the "Posting Rules" :aok
We all know that Politics, Religion, etc. are a no-no.
Cursing on 200 as well.
When you violate common sense rules, expect the result :aok
:cheers: Oz
Is this some kind of poetry?
I'm confused by the strange line construction.
I'm sure it's clear to others, but not me.
For this I have the deepest compunction.
Roses are red,
Violets are poo,
I hate to admit it,
But that's he best I can do.
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That's fair. I'll get a video up on our Youtube channel this weekend covering that topic and point to it from the FAQ and help forums.
Skuzzy, if you need some footage of what not to do, I can get you some videos of Mazz Muppet rants. Say the word buddy.
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I thought the OP was some kind of extended Haiku myself.
Five full time people just to babysit one arena 24/7. Does that make any sense to anyone?
I can understand the reluctance to try and find enough players to maintain 24/7 monitoring, yet how is it unnecessary when the bbs forums are all moderated retroactively, especially after the weekend? Is there a difference in priority regarding what is said on the bbs compared to 200 based on the permanent record of the bbs compared to the live nature of ch 200?
Members on the bbs are moderated and punished accordingly retroactively, especially over the weekend when there is no moderator around on the bbs at times I've noticed. Due to the nature of ch 200 being a live comms channel, when there is no moderator on live, the same characters get away with their actions often, unless they are reported and somebody takes a look at what they said, again, retroactively like the bbs.
I found ROC's final words funny. The "ignore and get on with life" statement to be exact, and the "you don't have to read it or let it bother you" notion. I've said the same thing about the bbs many times - if you don't like something or someone, don't read it, nobody forces anyone to click that mouse button and read. Yet most seem in favor of massive moderation of the bbs, yet champion a "just ignore it" attitude on channel 200. Very strange.
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The few times I was muted I know I deserved it. I had a few too many in me and I went on the infamous 200 channel and started spewing meanness at the other players there. I won't say what was said but alot was tollerated. I think the final straw was when i told a player his wife had bigger ones than he did. I can see where mutes get deserved but I have seen where mutes are not deserved.
Example of a mute I got that I feel wasn't deserved .. I tuned to 200 to see what was going on, a fellow country man was in a heated debate with some one else and there were rather sly profanities being tossed at my felllow countryman and when he had enough he called the other guy a sweetheart and got muted .. art of concealment in text is ok. but to come out and say something such as that gets you muted where is the line drawn?
I am maybe 1 of many who have asked this question. So now i have 2 rules to live by..
1. Stay off 200 if you dont want a mute
2. If you want to tune to 200, refer to rule#1.
LawnDart
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The few times I was muted I know I didn't deserve it. Both happened on our squad channel and I was typing in Finnish. The first time I was bragging about the big bag of potato chips I had, the second was when I typed I'd grab a squaddie by his ears and kiss him on the forehead. Apparently the moderator was a homophobic healthy food apostle.
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The few times I was muted I know I didn't deserve it. Both happened on our squad channel and I was typing in Finnish. The first time I was bragging about the big bag of potato chips I had, the second was when I typed I'd grab a squaddie by his ears and kiss him on the forehead. Apparently the moderator was a homophobic healthy food apostle.
:lol
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The player age range of 10-80 or so years old, demographics of international gameplay does make for
a much varied view of life, politics and just day to day living. I would hate to be a moderator in that theater.
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The few times I was muted I know I didn't deserve it. Both happened on our squad channel and I was typing in Finnish. The first time I was bragging about the big bag of potato chips I had, the second was when I typed I'd grab a squaddie by his ears and kiss him on the forehead. Apparently the moderator was a homophobic healthy food apostle.
Moderators do not have access to the squad channel. The squad CO's are left to take care of those channels.
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Moderators do not have access to the squad channel. The squad CO's are left to take care of those channels.
I don't think Bizman even meant that he was muted by a moderator but by the auto "banned words" filter. :) Bag is P_u_s_s_i in Finnish so one can see why the filter might have not liked it. :D Although in similar cases the filter has warned me before muting ("continued profanity will result in 10 mins...etc").
http://rowena.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/Finland/Cute-products/1184068_JjNwnj/55380399_NNBHk3m#!i=55380399&k=NNBHk3m (http://rowena.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/Finland/Cute-products/1184068_JjNwnj/55380399_NNBHk3m#!i=55380399&k=NNBHk3m) ...Nowadays it only reads in english ("megabag") in the same bag of chips. :D
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I don't think Bizman even meant that he was muted by a moderator but by the auto "banned words" filter.
Years ago, typing F4UC 10k on the radio would get you a language warning as well :)
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Years ago, typing F4UC 10k on the radio would get you a language warning as well :)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Years ago I wrote over 200 to another player and said `nice shot` to which I got a warning..... when I looked at the text I had hit the letter just left of O,the I and it didnt say nice shot at all..... :devil
I believe it`s the only warning I`ve ever gotten!
:salute
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Is this some kind of poetry?
I'm confused by the strange line construction.
I'm sure it's clear to others, but not me.
For this I have the deepest compunction.
Roses are red,
Violets are poo,
I hate to admit it,
But that's he best I can do.
Is it poetic to you?
I just write it in a manner as to not create a wall of text that runs entirely across the screen, instead of creating smaller sentences and more of them, which seems to me to be a more presentable structure :aok
:cheers: Oz
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Skuzzy, if you need some footage of what not to do, I can get you some videos of Mazz Muppet rants. Say the word buddy.
Haha.. those are great
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I thought the OP was some kind of extended Haiku myself.
:rofl
P.S. you know I got still got love for you ozrocker ;)
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Let me be clear, I'm not trying to defend them.
And fine, inconsistent enforcement, have it your way. It still weakens the rule.
24/7 babysitters makes sense if you want the rules enforced 24/7. But then that's not a priority, it would seem. This isn't a criticism, simply an observation.
No rule, or Law for that matter, is enforced equally 24/7/365. It is NOT possible. Rules are to define parameters of accepted action, or boundaries to comply with to "even the field", so to speak.
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I don't think Bizman even meant that he was muted by a moderator but by the auto "banned words" filter. :) Bag is P_u_s_s_i in Finnish so one can see why the filter might have not liked it. :D Although in similar cases the filter has warned me before muting ("continued profanity will result in 10 mins...etc").
http://rowena.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/Finland/Cute-products/1184068_JjNwnj/55380399_NNBHk3m#!i=55380399&k=NNBHk3m (http://rowena.smugmug.com/Street-Scenes/Finland/Cute-products/1184068_JjNwnj/55380399_NNBHk3m#!i=55380399&k=NNBHk3m) ...Nowadays it only reads in english ("megabag") in the same bag of chips. :D
on the red channel (squad only) there isnt a filter.
semp
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on the red channel (squad only) there isnt a filter.
Ahh...Good to know! :D Finns are using common channel (ch136) since we are under several squads. I assume that's what Bizman meant (that is what I meant anyway). There's actually very little traffic on our squad channels.
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Yepp, 136 is what I meant. And I did get the "continued profanity..." warnings, which I of course quoted in my next message. Can't remember exactly, but I may have thought there's a real person moderating our channel and I may have tried to ask "him" directly what "he" thought was wrong in my chips. As a outrageously awesome fellow player might say, "auto filters are poo! :old:"
And just for those who might wonder about the kissing thing: I used the word p_u_s_s_a_a_n (I'll kiss) which is a loan of the Swedish language word p_u_s_s_a (to kiss) or p_u_s_s (a kiss) - we used to share a king with the Swedes until about two hundred years ago.
Actually, now that I think about it, I was muted once on a public channel. I was commenting something that someone said and probably my words were worse than my intention or there was some misunderstanding from the moderator's part. I had been PM'ing with the said someone for quite a while that day like many times previously, so we knew each other's way of thinking somewhat. He was active on 200, too, so I made a comment of something he just had said. Lesson learned: Never mix PM with 200 even with the same opponent.