Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vraciu on June 19, 2014, 03:04:23 PM
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Six victories in eight minutes. Alex Vraciu... 70 years ago today. http://www.alexvraciu.net/
He was in the midst of a five mission tear that garnered a Medal of Honor nomination (downgraded to a Navy Cross, unfortunately). A great fighter pilot and true gentleman.
:salute
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:salute
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What an achievement. Six defenseless Judy dive-bombers flying straight and level, picked off one by one. Certainly Medal of Honor worthy... :huh
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What an achievement. Six defenseless Judy dive-bombers flying straight and level, picked off one by one. Certainly Medal of Honor worthy... :huh
Consider the damage he prevented by taking them out.
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Consider the damage he prevented by taking them out.
They were on their way home.
Edit: That's not correct. You're right; they were heading for the Lexington. Still... a MoH for shooting down six dive-bombers during the Marianas Turkey Shoot? :huh
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What an achievement. Six defenseless Judy dive-bombers flying straight and level, picked off one by one. Certainly Medal of Honor worthy... :huh
I don't think it is appropriate to denigrate the actions of a combat veteran who was risking his life or the gratitude of his country in honoring his actions. It just seems classless.
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They were on their way home.
Edit: That's not correct. You're right; they were heading for the Lexington. Still... a MoH for shooting down six dive-bombers during the Marianas Turkey Shoot? :huh
Somebody needs to knock some respect into you.
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:rolleyes:
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MoH was a nomination, not given. Good effort.
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What an achievement. Six defenseless Judy dive-bombers flying straight and level, picked off one by one. Certainly Medal of Honor worthy... :huh
First off, he was flying an airplane with unlocked wings, oil smeared over the windshield, and a malfunctioning engine that would only produce partial power. He flew into friendly AA and attacked the Judys as they were diving in for their bomb run. He destroyed his last victim in its vertical dive onto the Lexington. He nearly had a 7th, also in the vertical, but AA blew it up right in front of him. (His gunnery was insanely good, too.)
He also was nominated for the Mission Beyond Darkness, sinking the largest ship prior to that mission a couple days earlier, and three other victories before and after 19 June. He had set the record for Naval Aviators. All told, his nomination was worth at least two Navy Crosses, if not the MOH.
Unfortunately, Navy Junior Grade Lieutenants did not impress Adm. Murray (sacked for ineptitude at Midway and sent to a desk job). Never mind that seven Admirals/soon-to-be-Admirals all approved the award-including Halsey and Spruance--and the Navy's own chairman for the Medals Review Committee in 1947 stated the downgrade was an injustice. Had he been a Marine, a Commander, or naval academy grad it probably would have gone through.
He was Butch O'Hare's protege' and he made good on the lessons he learned. Hard to believe it was 70 years ago...
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I was reading his story. he was a good shot. he also followed a zero home and straffed him as he was landing. wonder if the japanese pilot called him a no skill dweeb :).
semp
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I was reading his story. he was a good shot. he also followed a zero home and straffed him as he was landing. wonder if the japanese pilot called him a no skill dweeb :).
semp
:lol
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Somebody needs to knock some respect into you.
:cheers:
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Kind of strange for you to pick Vraciu as your game ID and not ever fly the Hellcat.
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I was reading his story. he was a good shot. he also followed a zero home and straffed him as he was landing. wonder if the japanese pilot called him a no skill dweeb :).
semp
No doubt he would've, had he had a channel 200 and had he still been living. Bet what was left was pretty crispy, given the lack of self-sealing tanks.
As for the commentary, sure, in retrospect, it looks pretty easy. Consider, though, that the pilot in question could not have known with perfect certainty that, just for example, there weren't any escorts about or that he wouldn't get hit by his own flak. There was no kill shooter back then.
As for the turkey shoot, it was only called that ex post facto. It took real courage to go out and fly into that unknown -for the men of both sides. Nobody knew, before it actually happened, what the outcome would be. The same could be said for Bodenplatte. Neither side had perfect knowledge of the other.
It is only the most vulgar of historians that evaluates the past by the standards of today and with the benefit of hindsight. Being generous, I attribute this to simple failure of imagination as opposed to malice.
If you happen to be German (but especially if not), I'd suggest a quick perusal of Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soldier, specifically Captain Wesreidau's speech. The latter neatly predicted both the outcome and the ignorance of those that would evaluate what had transpired. Besides, the speech is both profound and prophetic and worthwhile under any context.
Finally, I sense a bit of ad hominem here, just because it was Vrac who posted. That seems unnecessary and an unfair transit to the subject of the post; a completely different individual.
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Always admired this guy from when I met him @ the Intrepid in the 90s
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Kind of strange for you to pick Vraciu as your game ID and not ever fly the Hellcat.
He flew lots of airplanes. Won the High Individual and Squadron Aerial Gunnery Trophies in the swept-wing FJ Fury.
Was also courted by Leroy Grumman to provide his input on the F8F. Was on a carrier deploying to the Pacific in F8Fs when the war ended.
I picked him because he is a personal friend and a fantastic fighter pilot. What I fly is irrelevant.
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No doubt he would've, had he had a channel 200 and had he still been living. Bet what was left was pretty crispy, given the lack of self-sealing tanks.
As for the commentary, sure, in retrospect, it looks pretty easy. Consider, though, that the pilot in question could not have known with perfect certainty that, just for example, there weren't any escorts about or that he wouldn't get hit by his own flak. There was no kill shooter back then.
As for the turkey shoot, it was only called that ex post facto. It took real courage to go out and fly into that unknown -for the men of both sides. Nobody knew, before it actually happened, what the outcome would be. The same could be said for Bodenplatte. Neither side had perfect knowledge of the other.
It is only the most vulgar of historians that evaluates the past by the standards of today and with the benefit of hindsight. Being generous, I attribute this to simple failure of imagination as opposed to malice.
If you happen to be German (but especially if not), I'd suggest a quick perusal of Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soldier, specifically Captain Wesreidau's speech. The latter neatly predicted both the outcome and the ignorance of those that would evaluate what had transpired. Besides, the speech is both profound and prophetic and worthwhile under any context.
Finally, I sense a bit of ad hominem here, just because it was Vrac who posted. That seems unnecessary and an unfair transit to the subject of the post; a completely different individual.
:salute
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Always admired this guy from when I met him @ the Intrepid in the 90s
The lion in winter. One of--if not THE--nicest, humblest, and decent men I have ever met in my life. I remember reading about him in CARRIER WAR in 1st grade. That picture holding up his six fingers was seared into my memory. I was a fan right then.
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He flew lots of airplanes. Won the High Individual and Squadron Aerial Gunnery Trophies in the swept-wing FJ Fury.
Was also courted by Leroy Grumman to provide his input on the F8F. Was on a carrier deploying to the Pacific in F8Fs when the war ended.
I picked him because he is a personal friend and a fantastic fighter pilot. What I fly is irrelevant.
you were friends with him?
semp
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you were friends with him?
semp
I still am. He is with us. 95 years young. He is the highest scoring American Ace still alive.
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I still am. He is with us. 95 years young. He is the highest scoring American Ace still alive.
so you are a personal friend of his? I was named after Paul McCartney, I love his music from the beginning to the last one recorded. I own every single song. but we arent exactly friends.
so the question still stands.
semp
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so you are a personal friend of his? I was named after Paul McCartney, I love his music from the beginning to the last one recorded. I own every single song. but we arent exactly friends.
so the question still stands.
semp
I already said it. YES. I am a personal friend of Alex Vraciu. He lives in Danville, CA. I eat dinner with him regularly--when I am in the area on an overnight--and he won't ever let me pay for it. That's the kind of guy he is. A war hero who won't let anyone pick up the tab.
What does this have to do with anything?
The man is all class. Take your pedantic nonsense to another thread, please. Have some flippin' respect. Sheesh.
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These colonials pilots look like hollywood actors :)
There was a massive colonial population in my home town during WWII
My town has a reputation for having good looking people :rofl
I will try and feel sorry for those Japanese pilots he owned but if I can't I won't loose any sleep :rofl
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What made Vraciu cooler than most pilots wasn't his fighting in the air, it was the unpilot-like manly fighting he did on the ground when he lead resistance fighters in the Phillipines.
Also, as I've seen in interviews, he's very cool and non emotive like me. Manly indeed.
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I already said it. YES. I am a personal friend of Alex Vraciu. He lives in Danville, CA. I eat dinner with him regularly--when I am in the area on an overnight--and he won't ever let me pay for it. That's the kind of guy he is. A war hero who won't let anyone pick up the tab.
That's truly awesome. I envy you.
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I already said it. YES. I am a personal friend of Alex Vraciu. He lives in Danville, CA. I eat dinner with him regularly--when I am in the area on an overnight--and he won't ever let me pay for it. That's the kind of guy he is. A war hero who won't let anyone pick up the tab.
What does this have to do with anything?
The man is all class. Take your pedantic nonsense to another thread, please. Have some flippin' respect. Sheesh.
in that case if you are using his name dont be a buttonhole sometimes on the bb.
semp
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:rofl
That's two very funny posts in a row.
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Jesus Christ people someone can't even post a historical event with out it turning into a spiral cluster ****, how about lets stop with the personal attacks for say 5 minutes.
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in that case if you are using his name dont be a buttonhole sometimes on the bb.
semp
+2
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That's truly awesome. I envy you.
:salute
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Jesus Christ people someone can't even post a historical event with out it turning into a spiral cluster ****, how about lets stop with the personal attacks for say 5 minutes.
:cheers:
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I don't think it is appropriate to denigrate the actions of a combat veteran who was risking his life or the gratitude of his country in honoring his actions. It just seems classless.
Thank you Bodhi +1
He did more in 8 minutes for his country than most people do in a lifetime
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Good post V thanks for shaRing :salute :cheers: :salute
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Thank you Bodhi +1
He did more in 8 minutes for his country than most people do in a lifetime
:salute He saved a. Lot of lives smacking down those Judys. Imagine if the last one he flamed had hit the Lexington... Carnage.
Good post V thanks for shaRing :salute :cheers: :salute
:salute
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I think it's a great accomplishment. Yet I see no need to rewrite history.
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I think it's a great accomplishment. Yet I see no need to rewrite history.
I wasn't aware anyone did.
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I'm sorry but I see absolutely no reason that this guy should receive a Medal of Honor for this. Yes, he did a good job, his job, to shoot down enemy planes.
You should consider reading about Medal of Honor recipients and what they sacrificed and imperiled to earn those medals.
Vraciu wasn't even close.
<S> The real Vraciu, sir, thank you for your service.
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I'm sorry but I see absolutely no reason that this guy should receive a Medal of Honor for this. Yes, he did a good job, his job, to shoot down enemy planes.
You should consider reading about Medal of Honor recipients and what they sacrificed and imperiled to earn those medals.
Vraciu wasn't even close.
<S> The real Vraciu, sir, thank you for your service.
Then every Marine who scored five or more in one hop didn't deserve it either. Vraciu was nominated for FOUR missions. Not one. He sure deserved more than a single Navy Cross. He was a heroic, tenacious, impressive son of a gun.
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Then every Marine who scored five or more in one hop didn't deserve it either.
Did anyone? While shooting down five aircraft in one sortie is a great feat of skill and airmanship it is hardly the same as throwing yourself on a hand grenade or charging enemy machine gun bunkers alone. I was under the impression that the MoH was reserved for only the most extreme acts of valor, like the British VC.
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Yeah, I just looked for awhile myself and couldn't find anyone who got the MOH for the reason stated.
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Did anyone? While shooting down five aircraft in one sortie is a great feat of skill and airmanship it is hardly the same as throwing yourself on a hand grenade or charging enemy machine gun bunkers alone. I was under the impression that the MoH was reserved for only the most extreme acts of valor, like the British VC.
Again, Vraciu pressed his attack in an airplane with UNLOCKED WINGS, oil smeared windscreen, a malfunctioning engine, and into the teeth of friendly AA. Nevermind what he did the next day at Mission Beyond Darkness where he held off the Jap CAP singlehanded so our DBs could sink a carrier. Add in the two missions prior and his having set the record for victories by a carrier pilot and I say he more than fulfilled the requirements. Either that or give him three Navy Crosses and call it a day.
I will defer to the judgment of Burke, Spruance, and Mitscher (among others). They (among others) agreed he met the requirements for the award. What was done to him was a travesty in this regard.
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See Rules #2, #4, #5
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(http://alexvraciu.net/images/Alex-Vraciu-Robbed-of-Medal-McKinlay-1992.gif)
VP-l6/Pi5/jjl
Fighting Squadron Sixteen Fleet
Post Office San Francisco, California
26 June 1944
From: Commander, Fighting Squadron Sixteen. [LCDR Paul Buie - Later Rear Admiral]*
To: The Secretary of the Navy
Via: (1) Commander, Air Group Sixteen. [CDR E. M. Snowden - Later Rear Admiral]*
(2) Commanding Officer, U.S.S. LEXINGTON. [CAPT E. W. Litch - Later Rear Admiral]*
(3) Commander. Task Group 58.3. [Admiral Marc Mitscher]*
(4) Commander. Fast Carrier Task Forces, Pacific Fleet. [Admiral Raymond A. Spruance]*
(5) Commander Air Force, Pacific Fleet. [Admiral George D. Murray]
(6) Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet. [Admiral Chester W. Nimitz]
Subject: Recommendation for award in the case of: Alexander VRACIU, Lt.(jg). A-V(N). USNR, (I24731)
Reference: (a) SecNav Circular Letter of 7 March 1944.
(b) Pacific Fleet ltr. 30L-44 of 23 May 1944.
(c) CTF 58 Itr. serial 169 of 19 June 1944.
Enclosures: (A) Suggested Citation for Congressional Medal of Honor.
1. This squadron was assigned the mission of conducting air operations against enemy aircraft, installations, and personnel at various enemy bases in the Marianas, in support of a landing by our forces on 15 June 1944 on Saipan Island, while assigned to a Task Group operating under Commander, Fast Carrier Task Forces, Pacific Fleet. On 19 June 1944 during the course of these operations, our naval forces were heavily attacked by enemy carrier based aircraft; and fighter pilots of this Squadron played an important part in intercepting and defeating these attacks, shooting down 45 enemy planes. On 20 June 1944 pilots of the Squadron escorted our carrier based bomber and torpedo planes in a long range strike which inflicted heavy damage on the enemy fleet.
2. These air operations included 388 sorties (exclusive of normal Anti-Submarine and Combat Aif Patrols where there was no contact with the enemy) over the two-week period from 11 June 1944 to 25 June 1944, inclusive, and resulted in the following damage to the enemy:
(a) Forty-eight aircraft destroyed (airborne).
(b) Four aircraft probably destroyed (airborne).
(c) Sixteen aircraft destroyed (on ground).
(d) One 6,500 ton AK sunk.
(e) One 2,000 - 2,500 ton AK damaged.
In addition, more than 500 strafing runs were made against anti-aircraft positions, temporarily or permanently silencing many anti-aircraft guns; thirteen trucks were burned and destroyed; 7 Sampans or launches were set on fire and left sinking.
CERTIFIED TO BE A TRUE COPY
(SIGNED)
R.C. GILLETTE, LCDR, USN
Director, Officer Records Division(1)
(Page 1 of 2)
* [Award Recommended by 1-5, Buie, Snowden, Litch, Mitscher, Spruance]
VF-16/PlS/jjl
Fighting Squadron Sixteen
c/o Fleet Post Office
San Francisco, Calif.
26 June 1944
Subject: Recommendation for award in the case of:
Alexander VRACIU, Lt.(jg), A-V(N), USNR, (124731)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. In compliance with paragraph eight (8) of reference (a), a brief summary of the part taken in these actions by the subject officer (listed also in paragraph four (4) below) and a description of the especial achievement or outstanding acts of service accomplished by him are set forth herein:
(a) Lt.(jg) Alexander VRACIU, A-V(N), USNR, led a team of fighters carrying 500 pound bombs in an attack on enemy shipping in Tanapag harbor, Saipan, on 12 June 1944. In the face of intense anti-aircraft fire, he made a low level or "masthead" bombing attack against the largest Japanese ship in the harbor, a 6,500 ton AK, and sank it with a direct hit on the stern at the waterline. On 14 June 1944 in the course of a strike against enemy positions in the Islands north of Saipan and while at an altitude of 3000 feet, he sighted an enemy search plane at an altitude of 18000 feet. He approached the enemy plane so skillfully, keeping in its "blind spot" that despite its altitude advantage he was able to overhaul it and shoot it down in flames. On 19 June 1944, during the large-scale a attacks by Japanese carrier based aircraft against U. S. Naval Forces, near the Marianas Islands, he was one of thirteen pilots of this Squadron launched to meet the first wave of the attack. He intercepted a formation of 30-40 enemy dive bombers (Judies) at a distance of approximately 30 miles from our forces and single-handed, in the face of enemy fighter opposition, succeeded in shooting six of them down in flames, thus contributing tremendously to the breaking up of this attack on our ships. On 20 June 1944, he was one of a nine-plane fighter escort, which escorted our bombers and torpedo-planes on a strike of over 300 miles, against the Japanese battle fleet; and while covering the torpedo planes as they went in to attack, engaged five or six different enemy fighters (Zekes), shot one of them down in flames and damaged another, thus materially assisting our torpedo planes in pressing home attacks which resulted in the probable sinking an enemy carrier. He then returned 300 miles to base and landed safely aboard one of our carriers under extremely hazardous conditions, including total darkness. The planes destroyed by Lt.(jg) VRACIU in these actions raised to nineteen his total of planes shot down in the air. This is believed to be a record for U.S. carrier based pilots.
4. The following officer is recommended for the award shown below, with citation as suggested in the appropriate enclosure hereto:
CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL OF HONOR
Alexander VRACIU Lt.(jg), 124731 A-V(N),USNR
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Yer a forum troll. Not surprised you missed it, either...
Pardon me sir, but I shall not stoop to calling names or arguing with people on the boards.
I gave my opinion as I have read yours, thank you.
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Pardon me sir, but I shall not stoop to calling names or arguing with people on the boards.
I gave my opinion as I have read yours, thank you.
And then missed the ocean from a boat. Well done!
Stooping seems to be your MO, tbqh. I have always treated you with respect. Your attacks on me of late are without warrant or provocation. Disappointing....
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And then missed the ocean from a boat. Well done!
Stooping seems to be your MO, tbqh. I have always treated you with respect. Your attacks on me of late are without warrant or provocation. Disappointing....
this is why I dont like players using names of actual war heroes. sometimes the way you act brings a bit of disrespect to the name you use. does he act this way when you disagree with him?
semp
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this is why I dont like players using names of actual war heroes. sometimes the way you act brings a bit of disrespect to the name you use. does he act this way when you disagree with him?
semp
Well, at least I see why you use "Semp". :)
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this is why I dont like players using names of actual war heroes. sometimes the way you act brings a bit of disrespect to the name you use. does he act this way when you disagree with him?
semp
I actually look at it another way: it's an attempt to transfer some honor from the name onto the user... but, either way - and reserving judgment on Vrac (no reason, at this time, to have any hard feelings toward him), here - I share this concern.
Now, otoh, a Man who names himself after a giant rubber lizard, well, you just KNOW he's got it going on - and in so many ways.
consider an example: One year, in the course of our regular USTA season of recreational interclub play, we did well enough - the boys and I - to advance to regionals. While there in Indiana, I noticed some dude all dressed like Nadal; same headband, outfit, even the same yellow Babolat racquet. It turned out he was a 3.0 and played a push game. I know because I watched him.
Back in the day, you'd call that a drugstore cowboy, a second-hander.
Edit: some might also call it a "rump rustler" or, how you say, "turd burglar". I find that last name particularly descriptive. Imagine the perp, dressed in a mask and dark clothing. He discretely tiptoes across the flow and stops before a slumbering lump. With a quiet <snap> the glove goes on. Out of a small sack, a nondescript tube is pulled, its contents generously applied to the thumb and index finger of the gloved hand...
The rest, you can imagine.