Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bozon on July 01, 2014, 02:13:51 AM
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The loss of all dar bars is not a good gameplay mechanic. Does it "punish" the defending country and gives an advantage to the side that downed the HQ? Sure, but it also ruins the game to the HQless players and makes them logout or waste their precious online time. It is worse if you have just logged on and see an empty clipboard map. I am also sure that this is very unwelcoming to new players that now have no idea what to do. It is bad for gameplay and for keeping players.
The darbars is what allows players to find the fight. In an age of 255 field maps and 150 players online 1/5 of which are in tower and 1/4 of which are in GVs, it simply makes players fly around aimlessly, till they decide F it! and logout. Flying C47s to HQ multiple times to get it back up is not what I want to do in this game. This is not a @#$% RPG that makes the game like a job. On smaller maps it is easier to find a fight, but HQ gets knocked out much more often due to the shorter ranges to it from enemy bases. It is bad anyway.
So, what should be the penalties of losing HQ? anything except preventing players from fighting! I don't really care if it completely prevents any structure from respawning or it means instantly losing the war. However, for practical purposes here are some ideas:
* Darbar should not be removed EVER.
* Let it remove all dot dar (friendly also) from the HQless country. That is fine and no friendly dar is a big minus, but still alows one to know if there is a fight somewhere in the sector.
* Halve the effect of resupply both by players and by AI convoys as long as HQ is down. This will give the strategic advantage to the other counteries and make HQ important to the strategy (aka "win the war") players.
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"....... makes the game like a job. "
Enough said I think.
I totally agree, even though I was really for making the strategic game more important. I think that this is one of those areas like the town capture that needed adjustment. Strategic strikes should stir the opponents. However, so much of the game depends on radar information, as Bozon has pointed out, could there be other concessions to take the blackout, OUT OF the game?
* My proposed concession from another thread, was HQ is down, the mission planner for that country would be disabled. This is based on the premise that somehow, HTC would find a way to make the mission planner more desirable to use than presently (no fault with the planner itself, just not enough perks for using it).
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its quite simple,defend the HQ
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+ Eleventy Billion. These are excerpts from the last similar request:
Look out the tower window of a flashing base...ok, coast is clear - I can take off. Fly around for a few minutes without spotting anything but still flashing. Is it a set of 25k bombers? Are they north, south, east or west? Or they coming, going or just passing through the dar circle? Is it one tank or a bunch? A 10k P-51 steamroller mission or a single noe porker. Maybe just a goon parked somewhere. Several other bases are flashing. Should I try my luck there? Is there a fight going on? Who the hell knows?
Nuke the HQ all day long, for all I care. There has got to be a consequence that's better than making it tougher to find the bad guys. Things like disabling all town ack, disabling perk planes, increasing perk plane cost, disabling base capture, adding downtimes to strats or even lowering the base count needed to reset the map. Something that doesn't decrease the chance of combat.
edit: I like the idea of disabling all auto-ack when the HQ is down - even for CV groups. Manned guns would still work. That's a big time reward for dropping the HQ. One that doesn't make it harder to find the invaders. Also, harden the HQ enough to prevent a single set of noe Lancs from killing it.
And when the HQ goes down, there should be a system message on country text that says: HQ has been destroyed: auto-ack is disabled until HQ is resupplied.
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its quite simple,defend the HQ
More simple: log off and hope for another better day in AH.
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Can we turn it like this?
We need a new transport / support class. Then when HQ is down, i can run the C-47 many times to HQ without ruining my bomber scores.
And jeep, M3 and LVT2 belongs to that class too.
Now if you run supplies to somewhere, it is like a punishment for scores.
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Then when HQ is down, i can run the C-47 many times to HQ without ruining my bomber scores.
Unless you are strictly going for #1 spot in bombers, there's hardly a way to "ruin" your bomber score by a couple of HQ resupply runs.
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Unless you are strictly going for #1 spot in bombers, there's hardly a way to "ruin" your bomber score by a couple of HQ resupply runs.
Yes there is. Same thing with vehicles.
You get nothing but extra sorties for resupply runs.
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Agreed Bozon. In these times anything which makes it harder for a fight to occur is problematic. This along with the hangar destruction=no uppers thing are the two most inherently anti-combat parts of this combat sim.
EDIT: I forgot about the temporal-rule-that-shall-not be named. Together with HQ destruction and hangar destruction, it form a triad of failure when it comes to actually having fights in this combat game.
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Yes there is. Same thing with vehicles.
You get nothing but extra sorties for resupply runs.
But that doesn't actually 'ruin' you score. Unless, as already stated, you are going for the #1 spot in bombers.
Otherwise, the effect of a few extra sorties is very small on your rank, most of the time not even noticeable.
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Agreed Bozon. In these times anything which makes it harder for a fight to occur is problematic. This along with the hangar destruction=no uppers thing are the two most inherently anti-combat parts of this combat sim.
I can live with destroyed hangars. They up relatively quick, I can come from another field which will only take a couple of minutes more, or find another fight. HQ down is much worse because I cannot find that other fight.
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I can live with destroyed hangars.
But can the game? Keep in mind that you are almost certainly a 30+ aviation buff. 15 minutes is an eternity to the general pool of people who might pay $15 a month to play a combat game, IF said game didn't hand them boredom for their money most of the time.
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Can we turn it like this?
We need a new transport / support class. Then when HQ is down, i can run the C-47 many times to HQ without ruining my bomber scores.
And jeep, M3 and LVT2 belongs to that class too.
Now if you run supplies to somewhere, it is like a punishment for scores.
Are you going to be aiming to be No1 bomber?
are you in the top 500?
if not what difference does it make?
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-1
Because it would make the game easier.
The HQ can be defended, just like it can be attacked and most times it's impossible to sneak in on it so you have plenty of time to set up an intercept.
Fighting without any dar isn't impossible, it's just harder. Communication is key when HQ is down and it's pretty easy. You can see who is near you on range and help each other out. You can type on your country channel and give or get instantaneous communication across the entire map, and you can give your SA a good workout.
HQ down is no different than how we fly FSO's, and those are mightily fun as I recall. In FSO, I understand you know what the mission is and where to expect an attack. Well, in the Main Arena, you got a pretty good idea what the enemy is also doing especially if you communicate with your mates.
I also like it because it is a bit different for just a short period of time, freeing us for a moment from the relentless grind of the same missions over and over and over.............
I'd be curious what the percentage of downtime for HQ actually is, which would quantify the OP's complaint. Come on Lusche, what ya got?
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+1
At least suspend it till the MA population increases.
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Come on Lusche, what ya got?
Nothing
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The HQ isnt down very often, its a few % of the total time. It takes a lot of time to perform a drop on HQ and most of the time its back up again by the time u land afterwards. Its not a big deal and it takes less effort to resup it than to kill it.
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Zimme you must not be a Knight, or possibly this occurs more often when numbers are low (when the chance for enough action to resupply is even worse). In any account, anytime that the HQ is down, no matter how "infrequent" you say it is, the effects are devastating.
Do they really have to be?
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I remember one evening, first our HQ was killed, together with close by VH to prevent M8 run's (educated guess).
We started to fly in C47s
Bish had left fighter protection ( and where 30 more in numbers) over our HQ, after their initial success against our unprotected C47, we threw them out of there.
This took some 10-15 minutes.
We started flying C47's again until it was open.
2 minutes after field was resupplied HQ, HQ was down again
Bishops owned fields not that far off from our HQ at that particular time.
I logged.
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The loss of all dar bars is not a good gameplay mechanic. Does it "punish" the defending country and gives an advantage to the side that downed the HQ? Sure, but it also ruins the game to the HQless players and makes them logout or waste their precious online time. It is worse if you have just logged on and see an empty clipboard map. I am also sure that this is very unwelcoming to new players that now have no idea what to do. It is bad for gameplay and for keeping players.
The darbars is what allows players to find the fight. In an age of 255 field maps and 150 players online 1/5 of which are in tower and 1/4 of which are in GVs, it simply makes players fly around aimlessly, till they decide F it! and logout. Flying C47s to HQ multiple times to get it back up is not what I want to do in this game. This is not a @#$% RPG that makes the game like a job. On smaller maps it is easier to find a fight, but HQ gets knocked out much more often due to the shorter ranges to it from enemy bases. It is bad anyway.
So, what should be the penalties of losing HQ? anything except preventing players from fighting! I don't really care if it completely prevents any structure from respawning or it means instantly losing the war. However, for practical purposes here are some ideas:
* Darbar should not be removed EVER.
* Let it remove all dot dar (friendly also) from the HQless country. That is fine and no friendly dar is a big minus, but still alows one to know if there is a fight somewhere in the sector.
* Halve the effect of resupply both by players and by AI convoys as long as HQ is down. This will give the strategic advantage to the other counteries and make HQ important to the strategy (aka "win the war") players.
I bolded the key points. Outstanding observations and suggestions. +100 :aok
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This is one of those wishes, that will continue to echo, with very few objections.
Let's rewind. A couple of years ago, there were wishes that the strategic game play be given some "teeth". I was absolutely in favor of this, and even stated my reasoning that risking slow moving bombers running deep into enemy territory to "flick the light switch" for a few moments was not worthy of the effort.
Since then, as I was away from the game for some time, I return to find the current state of factory strats and downtimes in existence, and applaud HTC for their ingenuity. However, THE BALANCE moved too far in the favor of the STRAT ATTACKERS. This is something that can easily be remedied, and truly needs to be addressed ahead of any upcoming visual changes to the game.
There are entire threads discussing the balance aspect and what it means in terms of encouraging interaction that is the basis for online play. Granted some interaction has to do with strikes on non player controlled targets, but frontline action should not be forced to suffer, nor players frustrated by extended outages of radar clues for where interaction shall occur.
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So, how about mobile radars?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg_radar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg_radar)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Wurzburg_type_A.jpg/688px-Wurzburg_type_A.jpg)
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Also, if each base has its own radar tower, shouldn't radar at your takeoff base be independent of the HQ?
Either way, it's bad for game play, and it's bad for noobs, which is even worse. If the vets don't like it, too bad; they aren't going to leave over the effect of killing the HQ.
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More simple: log off and hope for another better day in AH.
I have done that. specially in the small maps where hq is down every 5 minutes. no point defending it. I just log off, go play wot and come back next day.
semp
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I have done that. specially in the small maps where hq is down every 5 minutes. no point defending it. I just log off, go play wot and come back next day.
semp
And yet folks are calling for small maps all the time??? Am I missing something here?
I say screw the small maps, and just put the large ones on Hiatus. Medium maps appear to be where it's at! :)
Now a question I keep forgetting the answer to (save the obvious ones):
Which are "Small" Maps?
Which are "Medium" Maps?
Which are "Large" Maps?
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Which are "Large" Maps?
Compello, Ozkansas, Tagma - 20x20 sectors
Which are "Small" Maps?
Basically all others, at 10x10 sectors - though a map like beta2 is effectively using even a lot less than that for its terrrain.
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Compello, Ozkansas, Tagma - 20x20 sectors
Basically all others, at 10x10 sectors - though a map like beta2 is effectively using even a lot less than that for its terrrain.
So we do not have any "Medium" maps... :( I thought Crater MA was a "Medium" map, and I thought the "Large" maps were bigger. :lol I never did really count out the sectors. I was thinking large maps were 40x40 or something.
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Downing the HQ is an annoyance. Does nothing for the game.
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+1 :aok
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More simple: log off and hope for another better day in AH.
:lol Reading is so VERY essential
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This is one of those wishes, that will continue to echo, with very few objections.
Let's rewind. A couple of years ago, there were wishes that the strategic game play be given some "teeth". I was absolutely in favor of this, and even stated my reasoning that risking Darn fast bombers flying 300mph+ in formation at 30k running deep into enemy territory to "flick the light switch" for a few moments was not worthy of the effort.
Since then, as I was away from the game for some time, I return to find the current state of factory strats and downtimes in existence, and applaud HTC for their ingenuity. However, THE BALANCE moved too far in the favor of the STRAT ATTACKERS. This is something that can easily be remedied, and truly needs to be addressed ahead of any upcoming visual changes to the game.
There are entire threads discussing the balance aspect and what it means in terms of encouraging interaction that is the basis for online play. Granted some interaction has to do with strikes on non player controlled targets, but frontline action should not be forced to suffer, nor players frustrated by extended outages of radar clues for where interaction shall occur.
Fixed !
Bomber normally flew well below 200mph to keep formation intact. Here they speed like rabbits on laxative.
To be able to find any fight anywhere on a big map, radar bar is needed.
Flying around aimlessly for 15 minutes to find a con is plain stupid for a game that should be promoting fights.
Changes for HQ down could be :
Change so only ENY 10+ planes are allowed (or increase with X ENY depending how much was hit of all strategy combined objects)
Kill comms : used same ways as mute.
But do not kill the fights.
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Perhaps HQ disables country channel and CH 200 only?
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Perhaps HQ disables country channel and CH 200 only?
No no. This will create a similar problem as disabling all darbars - make people want to log off. It will also hurt mostly the new players and those that are not in squads since the latter have their own txt and vox channels or use external programs for voice chat.
Bombing HQ is a strategic mission and should have a strategic consequence not a tactical one! Strategic consequence could be affecting down time (I suggested to do this by lowering the effectiveness of resupply, including AI which will add to down time on top of strat factories penalties), affecting the ability to base capture (no troops while HQ down), affecting ENY limit (I do not recommend this), and affecting dot dar including the friendly dots (as it does now). The latter loss of friendly dots makes finding each other difficult. Also, you do not see the location of the person speaking on range on the map. Both effects are pretty devastating by themselves and affect also the furballers, but not enough to make them logout in disgust.
-1
Because it would make the game easier.
The HQ can be defended, just like it can be attacked and most times it's impossible to sneak in on it so you have plenty of time to set up an intercept.
Fighting without any dar isn't impossible, it's just harder. Communication is key when HQ is down and it's pretty easy. You can see who is near you on range and help each other out. You can type on your country channel and give or get instantaneous communication across the entire map, and you can give your SA a good workout.
HQ down is no different than how we fly FSO's, and those are mightily fun as I recall. In FSO, I understand you know what the mission is and where to expect an attack. Well, in the Main Arena, you got a pretty good idea what the enemy is also doing especially if you communicate with your mates.
It does not make the game easier - it makes finding a fight easier.
Defending or attacking the HQ is simply a matter of time investment. Put bombers on auto-climb, go to the supermarket, come back and fly to HQ at 35k. To defend: put fighter in auto-climb, watch the screen in a blanc stare for 20 minutes, snap out of it and fly around hoping to find the 35k bomber flying at 300+ mph, get pinged from 1000 yards to the radiator and pilot wound. Both activities are not what I and many others want to do in AH.
FSO operation are designed to make the forces meet. FSO where you do not meet the enemy are merely two hours of formation flying. Try doing FSO and let all COs choose their own targets and TO bases anywhere on the map. See how long till no one shows up to these events.
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+ Eleventy Billion. These are excerpts from the last similar request:
Look out the tower window of a flashing base...ok, coast is clear - I can take off. Fly around for a few minutes without spotting anything but still flashing. Is it a set of 25k bombers? Are they north, south, east or west? Or they coming, going or just passing through the dar circle? Is it one tank or a bunch? A 10k P-51 steamroller mission or a single noe porker. Maybe just a goon parked somewhere. Several other bases are flashing. Should I try my luck there? Is there a fight going on? Who the hell knows?
Nuke the HQ all day long, for all I care. There has got to be a consequence that's better than making it tougher to find the bad guys. Things like disabling all town ack, disabling perk planes, increasing perk plane cost, disabling base capture, adding downtimes to strats or even lowering the base count needed to reset the map. Something that doesn't decrease the chance of combat.
edit: I like the idea of disabling all auto-ack when the HQ is down - even for CV groups. Manned guns would still work. That's a big time reward for dropping the HQ. One that doesn't make it harder to find the invaders. Also, harden the HQ enough to prevent a single set of noe Lancs from killing it.
And when the HQ goes down, there should be a system message on country text that says: HQ has been destroyed: auto-ack is disabled until HQ is resupplied.
I for one, +1 the cost of perk planes/disable perk planes for the time that the HQ is down (gives a big incentive to defend it). Also Auto-ack a big +1 to, because it would give more incentive to destroy it.
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put fighter in auto-climb, watch the screen in a blanc stare for 20 minutes, snap out of it and fly around hoping to find the 35k bomber flying at 300+ mph, get pinged from 1000 yards to the radiator and pilot wound.
Story of my life :lol
+1 on changing downed HQ effect. I wouldn't shorten its downtime or make resupping easier, but the options Bozon presented sound pretty good. I wouldn't touch eny either...
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Making troops unavailabe by killing HQ seems as a good idea, dars can still be up but u cant take bases w HQ down. Still allows people to fight and u can bomb HQ as a way to prevent your team from getting steamrolled.