Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: FLOOB on July 23, 2014, 02:20:12 PM
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They are gamey. That is all.
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Sacriledge, gamey things in a game, the horror> -1
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I'm not fond of them either although I don't feel too strongly about it, I'd give this a +1.
Consider this scenario. One side has a a major object down at a field. A player can time to the second when to begin his attack run on the hangar/ord/whatever just by spamming a .dt command. It makes it easier for the attackers to keep the defenders objects down with smaller/virtually no window for stuff to sneak out whereas if there were no .dt commands, the enemy would have to see it to know it needs to be dropped.
If there were no .dt commands, they could be using a stopwatch, and some do. That would require a level of commitment and presence over the area from the start, as opposed to flying to a base and using your MFD to determine and prioritize which targets are going to be available when you get there.
Wiley.
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I never got the purpose for this. We have such a reputation for the fog of battle as our randomizer agent. Then boingggg, we get a precision timer for buff and jabo pilots to eternally crap on base defenders. I've been part of the M3 slobs who resupplied endlessly to get ords up just to have a buff box pass over 30 seconds later. Or the energizer bunny conga line of radar and VH hanger porkers who show up 30 seconds after either pops up.
This is kind of schizophrenic to the stated goal of this game, to promote combat.
The {dt} command promotes combat avoidance.
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Ya know, if they are using it to time when to hit it as soon as possible, you could use it to know when they were going to time their attack and.......................... .....
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if only they could make the dt commands for your on country.
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if only they could make the dt commands for your on country.
^^^ this ^^^^
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Ya know, if they are using it to time when to hit it as soon as possible, you could use it to know when they were going to time their attack and.......................... .....
If you're in position, yup. Hadn't thought of that I usually am just in a 'kill everything red over the base' frame of mind. Still, it lets the attackers be surgical and you know as well as I do a jabocide requires a fair bit to go right for the defender to stop him.
Wiley.
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+1
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How about we modify the request and only display friendly fields and not enemy fields.
Before we had the ability of displaying down time, we had to set a timer to determine when
a hanger would pop.
DHawk
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If you're in position, yup. Hadn't thought of that I usually am just in a 'kill everything red over the base' frame of mind. Still, it lets the attackers be surgical and you know as well as I do a jabocide requires a fair bit to go right for the defender to stop him.
Wiley.
That's a fact Jack! But killing one 2 seconds before he drops is giggley fun.
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Let's just say I was very much surprised at the introduction of .dt that it was working on enemy objects...
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Let's just say I was very much surprised at the introduction of .dt that it was working on enemy objects...
No kidding. This almost seems like bad coding that was never fixed. Frankly I think HTC should have addressed this two ways:
1) make .dt results available ONLY for friendly fields
2) introduce some randomness into the refresh time for objects that are destroyed. (Say +/- 20%)
That way friendly forces would know exactly when assets were available, but the enemy would have only a rough idea. Seems far more realistic.
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No kidding. This almost seems like bad coding that was never fixed. Frankly I think HTC should have addressed this two ways:
1) make .dt results available ONLY for friendly fields
2) introduce some randomness into the refresh time for objects that are destroyed. (Say +/- 20%)
That way friendly forces would know exactly when assets were available, but the enemy would have only a rough idea. Seems far more realistic.
That's a nice idea. I'd vote for it.
Wiley.
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No kidding. This almost seems like bad coding that was never fixed. Frankly I think HTC should have addressed this two ways:
1) make .dt results available ONLY for friendly fields
2) introduce some randomness into the refresh time for objects that are destroyed. (Say +/- 20%)
That way friendly forces would know exactly when assets were available, but the enemy would have only a rough idea. Seems far more realistic.
You know making since around here can get you shot right Cthulhu? +1 :aok
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I don't see .dt as gamey. Information and planning aides yes. In real life situations repair times would be known.
-1
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In real life situations repair times would be known.
Not at all. They would make (educated) guesses, but these had been spectacularly wrong at times, for all sides.
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Not at all. They would make (educated) guesses, but these had been spectacularly wrong at times, for all sides.
Admiral Nagumo... "Hey, we have plenty of time to rearm our planes for a strike on the American carriers... HANG ON, DO YOU HEAR SOMETHING???
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You know making since around here can get you shot right Cthulhu? +1 :aok
Well, it does appear to be a rare commodity sometimes. ;)
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Maybe we could get a fog of war effect for the DT commands? Perhaps assign the HQ an additional point of usefulness and make it so if the HQ is destroyed DT commands either don't work, or are drastically inaccurate.
I don't mind the DT commands too much, I think it wouldn't hurt if they weren't spot on - to the second - on reconstruction times though.
Perhaps I am too attuned to such a luxury to give an adequate opinion on the matter. *shrug*
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If we do make a change, I would vote to have dt commands work for friendly fields, and not for enemy fields. But we used to be able to guess at re-spawn time based on whether the hangar was on fire, or just smoking. If we modify dt commands, we should get the fire and smoke effects back.
In other words, I can get an accurate read on how much longer I have to wait for a friendly hangar, or ordnance bunker, etc to re-spawn. But for an enemy hangar, I can only estimate based on whether the first is burning hot, or spewing thick black smoke, or light smoke.
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If we modify dt commands, we should get the fire and smoke effects back.
They never had been changed.
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Not at all. They would make (educated) guesses, but these had been spectacularly wrong at times, for all sides.
Of course repair times in real life were WAG. The dt commands in AH simulation, simulates the WAG schedule repair but the game side of AH simplifies it into down to the second. It is a game. Have the DT be random and often wrong and watch this board light up.
Again -1
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Have the DT be random and often wrong and watch this board light up.
Again -1
I never supported the wish for randomness.
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They never had been changed.
Are you sure? It seems to me that fires stop smoking long before "5 minutes" remaining time when the downtime has been extended. I guess I could test it, but I am lazy. I will try and take a look at a strat up close the next time I have the opportunity.
Up to the second information has been helpful in determining how much time I decide to waste on a dying effort. A 5 minute window was all we had before, and only on burning structures. Down times on town buildings and popping AA guns was a bonus, especially since the premise for foiled captures is based on this "game" rule.
Let's not take anymore time talking about "game" rules. Although my opinion seems to differ from the vocal majority, I do respect their opinion. Also note, my typing speed may have given me an unfair advantage over some ;)
{edit in failed attempt to look less g33kish- why doesn't my Klingon translator work here?}
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I think the .dt commands are good for the countries. It seems like there is far more involvement in trying to repair a town or bring ords back up at a base. Those times vary so much depending on the strat damage and it allows players of the affected country to contribute to the war cause. It gives the plummeted country (many times knights) a better chance of coming back into the battle, rather than giving up. The commands allow a country to more effectively distribute it's resources. Every player has the ability to use them, so there is no advantage one country has over the others. I find that many players are too lazy or are unaware of the .dt commands. I'm constantly asked: "how long is this or that down for?". I use them a lot for my sorties to plan hitting strats, taking out ords, hangers, troops, etc. and even planning a base capture by looking at the gun and town building downtimes. It adds more strategic planning possibilities. Again, there is no advantage one player or country has over the others. In war times, countries plan.
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Are you sure? It seems to me that fires stop smoking long before "5 minutes" remaining time when the downtime has been extended.
They misinterpreted the mechanism - the smoke was showing (and still is) for a fixed duration , but the downtimes for things like ords or radar were fix as well (unless manually resupplied).
Now we have variable downtimes for the objects because of the factories (sometimes up to 150 minutes), but the "smoking time" is still the same.
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As a former admin, I used the dt commands exclusively to help setup bases and tweak the setup. I couldn't imagine doing a setup without them... just saying... :old:
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As a former admin, I used the dt commands exclusively to help setup bases and tweak the setup. I couldn't imagine doing a setup without them... just saying... :old:
Perhaps they could be admin controls only?
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They misinterpreted the mechanism - the smoke was showing (and still is) for a fixed duration , but the downtimes for things like ords or radar were fix as well (unless manually resupplied).
Now we have variable downtimes for the objects because of the factories (sometimes up to 150 minutes), but the "smoking time" is still the same.
I believe this is what Mongose meant when he said "get back" the effect. Actually, meaning to say get back the ability to effectively time repairs when an object stops smoking.
However, I never remember any difference in the color or thickness in smoke, other than when viewed from different distances. This is where I believe he is mistaken (and you are correct "no change there").
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^^^ this ^^^^
:aok
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The dt command is out of place in an environment that purports some illusion of the fog of war. If we were playing team squad capture the flag in the AvA. Yes, knowing the time of things to the second would be part of the competition environment.
In the MA the dt command is evolving into a greif tool. For those who want to track down time. Give them a dt command instead that tells the real time at the moment for object rebuild based on the strat condition and a stop watch timer in their clip board. Obviously they will have to be the original person to take down an object or, at least for missions, everyone be tasked with voicing target destroyed so the mission leader or designate can keep a timer. As is, the current dt is a little too post WW2 gamey, and post WW2 analog bombing control computerish.
It's wonderful knowing your VH and FH are about to come back so everyone holds on for 60 more seconds. The greifing comes in with them being dropped 10 seconds like clock work after they come back up at the end of every rebuild cycle. Five years ago during our super hoard period, this command would have made the super hoards that much worse. Think of the vTards at their worst with this command.
There was never a real problem that this command solved.
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Bustr,
I agree that this is not a perfect mechanism, however tinkering with it could produce grave results. Maybe you haven't noticed what it was a fix for, because it rolled out at the same time as other strategic rules changed.
I believe that downtime (dt) commands go hand and hand with the resupply town rules (a whole other thread). Take it away and base capture effort will be even less than it is now, halting most of the fluid game play that used to be present before the heavy handed hordes became necessary.
As for the hordes, they moved so swiftly, they didn't need hangars down and hardly if ever, needed them down twice.
I do not think it was an oversight, it was a necessity, otherwise most would not bother to invest in strategic system game play at all. It also, does more to guide the action than dar bar does (for those that use it properly).
Without going into any depth on the matter, it should stay as long as one field supply delivered can foil an organized team effort, instantly.
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Hordes never "became necessary" and neither did dt commands.
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Hordes never "became necessary" and neither did dt commands.
Then why do they (hordes) work, when most individual attempts fail? How many maps did Bishops successfully roll in their hay day?
Was I wrong? Did dt commands evolve at the same time the strat downtime effect was added? In any case maybe the game developers felt they were necessary.
It is easy for us to ponder one way or the other, we only stand to lose a favorite pass time. The game developers stand to lose a livelihood if they stray to far from what their customers feel is entertaining.
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Did dt commands evolve at the same time the strat downtime effect was added?
Yes.
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1) make .dt results available ONLY for friendly fields
2) introduce some randomness into the refresh time for objects that are destroyed. (Say +/- 20%)
That way friendly forces would know exactly when assets were available, but the enemy would have only a rough idea. Seems far more realistic.
+1 :old:
LtngRydr
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+1 on .DT for your country only. There is no justifiable reason to know exactly when the enemy supplies will be delivered or their hangers will pop.
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+1 Removing the ability to see the status of nmy fields also open up for reccon flights (i asume everyone would love that). The only way to see whats down at an nmy field should be to go over there and look. no .dt or right clicking on minimap.
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No kidding. This almost seems like bad coding that was never fixed. Frankly I think HTC should have addressed this two ways:
1) make .dt results available ONLY for friendly fields
2) introduce some randomness into the refresh time for objects that are destroyed. (Say +/- 20%)
That way friendly forces would know exactly when assets were available, but the enemy would have only a rough idea. Seems far more realistic.
Math isn't very hard to do so :bolt:
I used to just use my phone timer to time buildings and hangers and such. It honestly isn't that hard, taking the DT commands away would just make people go back to timing it by hand. I mean people actually did that and I was surprised when I first heard of it but it happens. I know a few guys on bish who know EXACTLY how many town buildings must go down for WF. :rolleyes:
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Math isn't very hard to do so :bolt:
I used to just use my phone timer to time buildings and hangers and such. It honestly isn't that hard, taking the DT commands away would just make people go back to timing it by hand. I mean people actually did that and I was surprised when I first heard of it but it happens. I know a few guys on bish who know EXACTLY how many town buildings must go down for WF. :rolleyes:
or guys that had the numbers on all acks in order to know the locations of the guns and which one that are up...
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I used to just use my phone timer to time buildings and hangers and such. It honestly isn't that hard, taking the DT commands away would just make people go back to timing it by hand. I mean people actually did that and I was surprised when I first heard of it but it happens. I know a few guys on Bush who know EXACTLY how many town buildings must go down for WF. :rolleyes:
But only you see that timer running. You may relay them to your country, but information tends to dilute quickly. , With .dt only for friendly items, there would indeed be a lot of 'fog of war', a lot of uncertainties for example when attacking a town.
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But only you see that timer running. You may relay them to your country, but information tends to dilute quickly. , With .dt only for friendly items, there would indeed be a lot of 'fog of war', a lot of uncertainties for example when attacking a town.
If things weren't already so skewed towards defending towns (especially with resupply features), then maybe it would be worth it to bring poorly defended troops to the slaughter.
Right now, things that foil a base capture:
- shoot one trooper with a plane, vehicle, shore battery
- one town auto ack pops
- pilot bails and hides in map room or vicinity to shoot one trooper
- town building pops and changes the flag
- all of the above hinge on troop carriers being available within range, due to damaged hangars or barracks
- also, the mechanism for capture is predictable, so troop carriers are actively hunted with not much fog of war, from where they will be coming
Is there any wonder why large groups pick targets to capture where there is less resistance? Let's not forget the NOE surprise grabs. It is no wonder why this is preferred over actual combat promoting captures.
.dt commands have strengthened the number of folks willing to become troop transports. Take it away and you might as well decrease the dar bar altitude to zero.
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.dt commands have strengthened the number of folks willing to become troop transports. Take it away and you might as well decrease the dar bar altitude to zero.
:headscratch:
Sorry, can't follow that logic at all.
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From the troop carrier's (player that is) point of view, wouldn't you want all of the best intelligence before you put your troops in harms way (in this case it is more like the player that delivers the troopers is at risk)?
I was being dramatic (concerning reducing dar height to zero), but the point was give the dang troop carriers an even shot. With the .dt commands I have noticed an increase in the number of troop carriers. I am suggesting, this is because they have some greater expectation of succeeding again.
In other words if dar height was set to zero, there would be no NOE raids and every map would either be overrun by the country with the best hording team, or it would stay up for the entire week like Trinity did.
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Before u bring in troops u have people to check if guns are down, no gv.s in town etc. I dont see that removing ability to check downtime on nmy object would change that. Only things that would change is that u have to go over to the base in order to check whats down and not. I will hide my m3/c47 until someone says that town is ready for troops. It will be a risk that something pops just before troops reaches map room but other than that i dont see that it will be any problems for goons.
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Then Zimme you are one of the fortunate ones. I practically abandoned troop carriers, coming from an original view of it once being one of my most satisfying achievements.
I returned after a forced absence of a year or more and discovered extended strat downtimes and other features like resupplying towns to decrease downtime. So, the present state of the town can be completely reversed with as little as one or two base supplies. You do know this don't you?
Check the town all you want, but unless you have checked the .dt command for town buildings or ack guns, OR someone has destroyed all supply point bunkers.... be ready to launch your troops into oblivion (or wherever they go when a town ack pops).
:rofl No problem for Goons? You are most likely not a Knight