Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Rob52240 on August 12, 2014, 11:16:58 AM
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Do you experts think that this will run the game smoothly with the new graphics engine? I want to make sure it isn't lacking something before I order it.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1G9W74 :airplane:
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Not too bad at all. There's two things that I'd change, though. The first and most important is the power supply. Instead of the no brand "standard" 800 W one I'd choose NZXT HALE82 V2 700W ATX 80 PLUS BRONZE for only $24 more. That one seems to be manufactured by Seasonic, who have the best reputation at the moment. The other thing is a little more a matter of trusting new technology: Instead of a SSD/HDD combo I think separate disks would be a safer bet in case of a failure, enabling to change only the defect component. Oh yes, you could choose a faster video card or processor, but those would badly break your budget. Oh, and I dislike doors in computer cases. They look "elegant" as the marketing jargon says, but I'd rather take something that breathes through a large grille the size of the entire front panel like Cooler Master HAF912 (+7) or CyberPowerPC X-Titan 100 (-5) or X-Titan 200 (+3)
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what bizman said. or you could build a nicer one yourself for about the same amount of money with better components including a faster vc. the standard is a crappy one, dont be fooled by the 7.
semp
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Thanks guys.
So semp, are you suggesting a different processor? The power supply suggestion makes perfect sense, and I already do the same on motherboards by always buying Asus.
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cpu is great it's the video card that is crappie.
semp
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Not sure you need that much processor, actually. I chose an i7 because I do a lot of video processing, but it is not at all clear that it would be needed for the next update of AH.
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what semp said, better video-card
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Not sure you need that much processor, actually. I chose an i7 because I do a lot of video processing, but it is not at all clear that it would be needed for the next update of AH.
Agreed. I use a late-model i5 myself and have no issues. Agree the video card isn't great. Save some money going with a i5 processor and get a better video card.
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rob, I really would encourage you to build your own computer. it isnt too complicated and for the amount of money you are spending you can go from ok components to way better components and you will learn a thing or two about computers.
watch a couple of videos on youtube. it's pretty easy.
semp
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Just reminding that the X79 chipset motherboards only support LGA 2011 which only supports i7 processors. The 4820K isn't actually much more expensive than a high end i5 like 4790K or i5-680, but the LGA 2011 motherboards cost three times as much as a LGA 1150 motherboard comparing the cheapest ones. Rob, look at www.pcpartpicker.com (http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/) and build some compilations based on different chipsets with similar speed specifications to find the best bang for the buck. Just out of curiosity I compiled an LGA 1150 based rig otherwise similar to what you suggested and ended up to $1023, including the Fatal1ty headset and keyboard and mouse of the same price level.
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From experience with 3 2011 x79 systems, 3820, 3930k and 4930k - the 3570k, 4570k, 4770 CPUs and their respective socket MB's perform nearly as well, and are far less expensive and perform in a better $/fps ratio than the x79, so long as editing huge video files and stuff like that isn't your primary use.
Another thing to consider OP is that the new x99 intel chipset as well as new Nvidia and AMD video cards are coming out in a few months or maybe even sooner, and along with them typically comes a corresponding drop in the current cards that are available. So, the 7" series should drop quite a bit once the 8" series get here. The socket 2011 will have a "new" socket 2011"x" that the new 5 series 8 cores will fit into, so again, a corresponding drop MAY happen with the stuff available right now. The very best thing you can do is wait a couple/few months and see. Price drops may or may not happen. I know the 3930k and the 3820 I bought in December of 2012 still are the same price as they were when I got them on sale, but many other chipsets and motherboards dropped significantly. Keep your eye on the really decent $/performance ratio chips like the 4670k as well as the x79 and stuff like that, as well as the 7 series Nvidia cards. IMO in a few months you'll very likely be able to build a faster, yet cheaper, system than you linked in the OP, something that will also likely run the new version of AH better and for a longer period of time.
Again, just take a breath and wait a little bit, as now isn't the best time to buy due to all the new stuff coming shortly.
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I'll be sure to get a better video card.
What would you suggest for a video card?
Semp, I've considered building it myself but I've bought 8 from this company so far since 2001 and have no complaints. I also like having a warranty.
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I'll be sure to get a better video card.
What would you suggest for a video card?
Semp, I've considered building it myself but I've bought 8 from this company so far since 2001 and have no complaints. I also like having a warranty.
all the parts have a warranty. The card that you need is a 760 or 770. For 400 less you can build it yourself with all better components.
semp
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Rob, I can understand that loyalty, I too deal with a company that is medium/large here in Western Canada that has built me around the same number of machines, maybe a few more, since around that same time frame, 2000/2001. They've always treated me right, so I stick with them. I could easily assemble the components and install all the first time software stuff, but they do that for me free of charge since I've been there so long (it costs 50$ which IMO is cheap considering they instantly switch out any faulty stuff on site, and spend the hours installing stuff, and then let it sit for a day or two going through some tests to make sure it's all working).
Again, if you can wait a short time, that 760 or 770 card will probably be a fair bit cheaper when the 8 series come out. They are already out in the gaming laptops. Same with the x79/x99 socket 2011 stuff - again, it may not drop, a 3820 is still much the same price as nearly 2 years ago, but it may come down now that the new socket x99 stuff if otw in a short time.
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I believe that since the user base and price point will be so different that in this case the prices will not vary much.
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when will the 8 series Nvidia cards come out?
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Soon Rob, no exact date released yet however. And as I eluded to earlier with my own experience buying the x79 and 3930k and 3820k chips, the price on the MB and CPU's didn't drop much, even to this day, and it was late Nov 2012 I built both of those systems, so Chalenge does raise a valid point. Unless you're looking at the higher end 780s, or even the 770s, the prices may not come down all THAT much, it is hard to predict.
I guess my point is you may be able to buy slightly newer and more current stuff if you wait a short period, as the newer x99 boards may not be all that much if any more expensive than the current x79, if as Chalenge mentions, the prices don't drop much. You'll be better off getting the latest stuff if it is around the same price, as it'll be upgradeable for a longer period of time. Example, they aren't going to be making any new CPUs for my 2 390$ motherboards, the x79 Sabertooth and ROG board. However, the new socket 2011-a or whatever they'll call it, the x99, will have most likely another round of new CPUS in the future, just as the x79 did with the 4820/4930 and whatnot.
All I'm saying is unless you need it NOW, waiting for a couple months at most may either save you a bit of $, or at the very least let you get into the latest tech motherboard/cpu for close to the same price as the x79 setups now, as again, the $ of those haven't changed a whole lot over the last couple of years. One of two things will happen - they'll either come down now as they are phased slowly out, OR they won't, in which case, like I said, the newer x99 stuff will be close enough in $ to be worth the extra few percent it may cost you to go with the most current, and hence the stuff with the most longevity upgrade wise. That's all.
The rumors are flying that it'll be the end of August or mid Sept at the latest that the new Hawell-E Intel x99 platform stuff will be launched, so it won't be too long now. Some of the rumored eVGA x99 MB prices are in the 250$ or less range as well, so like I said, compare that to the current x79 mb price in your OP link, and you'll see what I'm getting at.
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Soon Rob, no exact date released yet however. And as I eluded to earlier with my own experience buying the x79 and 3930k and 3820k chips, the price on the MB and CPU's didn't drop much, even to this day, and it was late Nov 2012 I built both of those systems, so Chalenge does raise a valid point. Unless you're looking at the higher end 780s, or even the 770s, the prices may not come down all THAT much, it is hard to predict.
The good old days of no competition for Intel are back it seems! :rock
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--- upgradeable for a longer period of time. ---
That's a point I've been thinking about quite some time. I understand the logic and I've upgraded to better components myself. My question is, how long should a motherboard last? Mine is over seven (7) years old socket 775 one, for which I upgraded the processor from E6750 to a second hand E8500. Based on what some people here have written it's ancient, although still capable to run AH. A common opinion seems to be though, that a gaming rig should be upgraded every three or four years, in which time there will be totally new sockets, chips, CPU's, RAM speeds or even generations using another slot design.
So, how long should a motherboard be upgradable?
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August 29 (x99 release)
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That's a great question Biz - Chalenge probably has a better grasp of that than I ever will, he'll answer I'm sure.
For me, and this is just personally, I would say around 4 or so years. I've always found since I got into PC gaming, and since around the time of the P2 400/450 sort of timeframe, that every couple of years I've needed to upgrade to "keep up with the Jones". Stuff will work well beyond that, and AH being a game that is really friendly to older hardware is a good example too. However for the really elite cutting edge games out there, there are some that will crush my current 3930k system at 1440p, or crush my 3 screen 3820k system as well. There are a few games out there that 3 or 4 unit 780ti's in a 4930k cpu system can smoke even, depending on the detail and res.
But I go by a playable level of FPS, say 60 "most" of the time being ok by me, and I find that to keep that up, every 2 years I get a new CPU, and every 4 or so, a new complete system including of course the mother board and cpu. So, for me, I find I can get away with a MB in the last couple of upgrade seasons for around 4. I bought the MB in the last post, x79 Sabertooth and an ROG almost 2 years ago, and with the 4930k plunked into both of them, they'll run OK with a 780ti, and a 680 SLI setup for most games in that optimal sort of performance zone. Again, I CAN smoke them with a few of the higher end resource hogs, especially if I'm using 3 screens or 1440p. I'm just getting into the 4k stuff now, so we'll see how that plays out.
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I'm pretty sure there are people here that use the same board longer than I ever have. I would only add that the weakest link is probably the thermal compound, if there is any. So, if you maintain the thermal areas of the board it should last as long as long as you can buy components for it.
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I just retired a linux running on an intel 3.0 ghz... and if it was not for the power supply, it would be running in the basement for some more years.
My old 1366 i7 930 are now waiting to be a Linux server with 4 gig of memory
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I'm pretty sure there are people here that use the same board longer than I ever have. I would only add that the weakest link is probably the thermal compound, if there is any. So, if you maintain the thermal areas of the board it should last as long as long as you can buy components for it.
How long would that be? I'm not too familiar with motherboard generations, I just look what's compatible now when someone asks. But I have a feeling that there has been some quite short lived processor/socket combinations during the last few years. How long do Intel or AMD have their flagships in production or otherwise available? Or better yet, will the yet unreleased more effective processors be compatible with current motherboards? And if the new processors were compatible, would the old RAM cause a bottleneck? Bus speeds?
My idea about parts is to compare the fastest and most expensive components to the nearest affordable ones to find out where the price jumps without giving any significant performance gain and then choose the best performer from the cheaper ones. For some parts I have had to lower my criteria to fit my budget, but as a rule of thumb I find it a good way to get the best bang for the buck for a long living rig.
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Evga released this image of what must be the x99 Classified.
http://instagram.com/p/r-UeBQuIc3/
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Biz, it's time to upgrade, if for no other reason than to make use of the UEFI boot scheme. Probably you already know about its existence, so I won't bore you with the details of transitioning unless someone asks. The reason that I think it is a great time to move over is to make use of coming changes, like greater capacity drives. For anyone not familiar with the difference it is a limitation of MBR that drives larger than 2.19 TB must be broken into smaller partitions. GPT partitions can make use of partitions up to 9.4 ZB (zettabytes), or one billion TB (for capacity comparisons you could put the entire world wide web on 4 ZB as of 2013). While we are not in any danger of seeing ZB size drives anytime soon, we will probably be seeing 20-100 TB drives sometime next year. Even if that does not come true there are already 4TB Enterprise drives, and 6TB NAS drives.
Another use for UEFI is cryptography, of course, so as you are checking motherboards for UEFI you might also consider checking for trusted platform module (TPM) support. I moved to ASUS boards from EVGA myself because I wanted to test out the TPM modules they sell (HP and Intel sell them also).
Skuzzy may have a few comments on this, as my research indicated that Microsoft insists that any system with the Windows 8 logo on it (Motherboards inclusive) will include TPM keys with the UEFI secure boot system. So, when you setup a UEFI system on a board that shipped with the Windows 8 logo you might want to audit the keys and remove their keys (unless you trust them).
Lastly, when I switched from MBR to GPT (and UEFI) I noticed an immediate speed increase in boot times. Even with an SSD this is not as immediate as the promise of instant-on, but it is very, very fast.
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Is AH going to upgrade graphics and knock off half of its already low number of subscribers. When AH became AH2 they lost a lot of people including half my squad. I had a chitty chitty bang bang computer back then,but they should be able to keep as many systems able to play on it as possible. If they are going to change it when is that going to happen? :joystick:
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Is AH going to upgrade graphics and knock off half of its already low number of subscribers. When AH became AH2 they lost a lot of people including half my squad. I had a chitty chitty bang bang computer back then,but they should be able to keep as many systems able to play on it as possible. If they are going to change it when is that going to happen? :joystick:
It's the opposite. HTC is hurting their business by dragging the low spec users along. They have a potential customer base of 100 million which they sacrifice to keep the few thousand along. All the competition is graphically vastly superior, even the new upgrade will be only dx9 meaning a decade old tech. AH is a niche product so I think its a tough spot. If they upgrade the graphics it will raise a lot of interest but then the learning curve will limit subscribing. If they keep the ancient graphics requirements they limit new interest but keep part of the current subscribers.
So far it seems that user base is dwindling so perhaps the first approach would be worth the risk. Who knows.
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. . , even the new upgrade will be only dx9 meaning a decade old tech. . .
Are you sure? I could swear I saw ambient occlusion at work in the tower shot they released.
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Correct Chalenge.
Every feature of DX11 can be done in DX9. It just takes code. Whether it is written by HTC or Microsoft, does not matter, as long as the function accomplishes the same thing.
Yes, we have ambient occlusion support.
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Biz, it's time to upgrade, if for no other reason than to make use of the UEFI boot scheme. Probably you already know about its existence, so I won't bore you with the details of transitioning unless someone asks. The reason that I think it is a great time to move over is to make use of coming changes, like greater capacity drives. For anyone not familiar with the difference it is a limitation of MBR that drives larger than 2.19 TB must be broken into smaller partitions. GPT partitions can make use of partitions up to 9.4 ZB (zettabytes), or one billion TB (for capacity comparisons you could put the entire world wide web on 4 ZB as of 2013). While we are not in any danger of seeing ZB size drives anytime soon, we will probably be seeing 20-100 TB drives sometime next year. Even if that does not come true there are already 4TB Enterprise drives, and 6TB NAS drives.
Another use for UEFI is cryptography, of course, so as you are checking motherboards for UEFI you might also consider checking for trusted platform module (TPM) support. I moved to ASUS boards from EVGA myself because I wanted to test out the TPM modules they sell (HP and Intel sell them also).
Skuzzy may have a few comments on this, as my research indicated that Microsoft insists that any system with the Windows 8 logo on it (Motherboards inclusive) will include TPM keys with the UEFI secure boot system. So, when you setup a UEFI system on a board that shipped with the Windows 8 logo you might want to audit the keys and remove their keys (unless you trust them).
Lastly, when I switched from MBR to GPT (and UEFI) I noticed an immediate speed increase in boot times. Even with an SSD this is not as immediate as the promise of instant-on, but it is very, very fast.
Valid points, I can't disagree. On the other hand, based on personal experience I'd still say they don't mean a thing for many regular users, not even people playing computer games. Let me explain by using myself as an example: My current hdd is a whopping 320 GB and it's only half full. Both of my daughters have an account to this rig, but since they can backup their personal data on a 1 GB memory stick, I'd say that for the most part I'm responsible of this fill rate. I can't see any benefit in a larger hdd, since I could easily clean half of the currently used space by simply removing programs and stuff I haven't used for several years.
As for cryptography, I don't believe anyone would be look at my files a second time. Not even my AH films folder, not to mention my e-mail which for the most part is filled with a certain newsletter.
Last but not least, I have articulated my point about faster boot times several times on this forum. If I boot my computer once or twice a day, saving a couple of minutes won't add anything to my productivity. It's funny how the boot time increase gets so much attention in media. A local IT magazine said, that for an individual it wouldn't make any big deal, but in large companies the savings would add. Come on! If it takes one person a quarter of an hour to type a one page business letter, fifteen people can't type the same document in one minute. Saving mere minutes a day only adds productivity in assembly lines and I doubt they'd use Windows PC's there.
But that's only me, my needs are modest. All I need my computer for is e-mail, Internet and AH, plus occasionally plugging a customer's hard disk in for data restoration and a few hundred photos. I know there's hardcore gamers among us whose single games take some 100 GB each. Or photographers with myriads of RAW images. Or movie enthusiasts with a huge library of titles. Not to mention those who are into 3D modelling. Our needs vary.
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That being the case it sounds like you have the situation under close enough scrutiny to know when the time arrives for you to upgrade again. I did forget to mention the relative security of UEFI even without cryptography, but you already said you are (EDIT:) not concerned about that.
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They have high resolution graphic packages for people to load ...Isnt there a way to have it both ways? Lower resolution for older systems and as high of resolution as they can for those with high end gaming PC`s? Just asking :joystick:
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Yes, I'm aware of current technology or at least capable to find out, that's not why I'm asking. As a matter of fact I'm currently on a course (again) to learn the latest Windows/Servers.
I just want to get opinions about a partial upgrade vs a totally new build for an average gamer and also what the schedule should be. My opinion is to get a decent rig for two-three years and then do a minor second hand upgrade for half of that time, getting the flagship gear which were high out of budget at the time of the initial build.
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They have high resolution graphic packages for people to load ...Isnt there a way to have it both ways? Lower resolution for older systems and as high of resolution as they can for those with high end gaming PC`s? Just asking :joystick:
You can already dull down the graphics quite a lot. Although AH1 used to be much easier on the computers, getting those graphics into the current game is impossible due to the new structures among other things. If it were only about skins and surface details, it could be done. But there's much more to consider. The early birds were quite clumsy looking, almost like camo coloured winged coffins instead of the sleek round cigars they now are. I recall trying some pre-AH flying sim way back then, it looked like a child's drawing. You know, a flat dull green ground. blue sky, a yellow sun in the left corner, blue windows on houses with solid red roofs. And everything that should've been round had six edges, not to mention that every slanted line looked like a saw blade. I believe you wouldn't like to see the enemy plane as a grey + sign, would you?
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EVGA x99 FTW sneak peek.
http://instagram.com/p/sBOXGCOIec/
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Is AH going to upgrade graphics and knock off half of its already low number of subscribers. When AH became AH2 they lost a lot of people including half my squad. I had a chitty chitty bang bang computer back then,but they should be able to keep as many systems able to play on it as possible. If they are going to change it when is that going to happen? :joystick:
out of curiosity. how do you know that 1/2 the subscribers are gonna get kicked out due to graphics when ah3 or whatever is released?
semp
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I agree Semp, I would think it likely that only the very, very, very bottom end systems may be put out by the new version. I would also bet that a 1000$ system new would probably run it pretty well, considering what you can build for that. Probably even a much cheaper PC will run it. Until the beta comes up, it's all supposition, but sweeping broad statements like 1/3 or 1/2 the current players will be priced out is a little alarmist.
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IIRC Skuzzy gave a hint about the current rigs people are playing AH with and the percentage of sub-par computers compared to recommended requirements was quite low. Every now and then someone pops up on this forum asking why his ten years old office computer can't run AH fluently any more. I suppose anyone who can find the download link should also be able to read the requirements under "Game info". Or, as I've noticed among pre-teens here without almost any knowledge of the English language, people just learn how a certain word like "download" looks like and then next-next-next-next-ready to get the game installed. Could that be described as a less flashy text based GUI of putting a disk into a gaming console and start a game from it?
Just a thought: How about displaying the minimum requirements in a window during the installation? Would that reduce the amount of unhappy new or returning customers who might never even heard about such a thing, believing that any "new" $300 laptop would run any game?
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Are you sure? I could swear I saw ambient occlusion at work in the tower shot they released.
I didn't comment on the previews earlyer but to me at least they remind of boxed sims 10-15 years ago. It's a step to the right direction for sure, I'm not just sure if it's enough when we compare the current generation graphics of the competition.
The paradox is that AH as a game is everything BUT the graphics. But in order to attract new customers and get people to try it out, the game has to look real photorealistic and flashy.
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Last but not least, I have articulated my point about faster boot times several times on this forum. If I boot my computer once or twice a day, saving a couple of minutes won't add anything to my productivity. It's funny how the boot time increase gets so much attention in media. A local IT magazine said, that for an individual it wouldn't make any big deal, but in large companies the savings would add. Come on! If it takes one person a quarter of an hour to type a one page business letter, fifteen people can't type the same document in one minute. Saving mere minutes a day only adds productivity in assembly lines and I doubt they'd use Windows PC's there.
I have seen corporate laptops that take no less than 20 minutes to boot. Worst one Ive seen was 40 minutes. Users keep their computers running for weeks on end just because they're afraid to boot it.
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I have seen corporate laptops that take no less than 20 minutes to boot. Worst one Ive seen was 40 minutes. Users keep their computers running for weeks on end just because they're afraid to boot it.
Thats usually because of the significant overhead from the resident software reinstalled by the corporation, the scheduled updates and jobs pr econfigured into the software. Antivirus, workstation backup jobs, data loss prevention (DLP) tools,content monitoring filters, workstation security profiles, data integrity monitoring, hard drive encryption, log monitoring and host intrusion detection software...all that trying to start during boot can slow a system to a crawl...and yes I know of companies that configure their PCs to load ALL the software I mentioned at start up...
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I have seen corporate laptops that take no less than 20 minutes to boot. Worst one Ive seen was 40 minutes. Users keep their computers running for weeks on end just because they're afraid to boot it.
Now that's ridiculous! With half an hour boot times there must be something serious going on, something that even the fastest SSD can't fix, only make it more tolerable. Notice that I didn't say something seriously wrong... I'm aware that connecting to multiple network drives can take some time as well as a some other server related security things, but twenty to fourty minutes! I really hope that the IT crew in those companies are both aware of the issue and capable to justify it to their superiors.
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Now that's ridiculous! With half an hour boot times there must be something serious going on, something that even the fastest SSD can't fix, only make it more tolerable. Notice that I didn't say something seriously wrong... I'm aware that connecting to multiple network drives can take some time as well as a some other server related security things, but twenty to fourty minutes! I really hope that the IT crew in those companies are both aware of the issue and capable to justify it to their superiors.
Heh in the good old NT4 times of my ex job with roaming profiles, when the people from the head office came to visit they logged on in the morning and by the time of the second coffee break (1400 hours) their computer had usually loaded all the porn movies etc. that their roaming profiles contained. I tried to clean our CEOs profile once, he had porn on the profile. But I would have had to clear his profile of every single workstation in the company that he ever used. Joy.
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Heh in the good old NT4 times of my ex job with roaming profiles, when the people from the head office came to visit they logged on in the morning and by the time of the second coffee break (1400 hours) their computer had usually loaded all the porn movies etc. that their roaming profiles contained. I tried to clean our CEOs profile once, he had porn on the profile. But I would have had to clear his profile of every single workstation in the company that he ever used. Joy.
Yes, back in the good old NT4 times when only companies and authorities had fast enough connections to download anything. I remember some municipal IT personnel ranting about some people using the net for downloading porn. Today with fast home Internet and highly editable group policies things like that shouldn't be an issue. And in cases like Zerstorer explained if the incompetence of the IT crew hasn't provoked any reactions from the "time-is-money" folks, they either have money to burn or are going down fast.