Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lyric1 on August 13, 2014, 01:09:10 AM
-
Two issues.
#1.
Is there any plans HTC may have to address the bomb & bail plague that just seems to be getting worse?
#2.
Proxy kills.
Has something changed with bombers & even being within 2.5K you get nothing now when they bail?
No answer on the bug forums on this topic so I will try here.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,363896.0.html
film1_0401.ahf (http://www.4shared.com/file/biXZj5pice/film1_0401.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/bombampbail_zps12ea2152.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/bombampbail_zps12ea2152.jpg.html)
-
Hitech needs to add a "Beavis and Butthead" sound effect laugh when they bomb and bail cause you know that's what they're doing :furious
-
Hitech needs to add a "Beavis and Butthead" sound effect laugh when they bomb and bail cause you know that's what they're doing :furious
:rofl
-
I think they should increase the range from 2.5k considerably.
-
Isn't it 1.5k?
-
You can check ManueverKillRange in the arena settings. In the MA, it's set to 6000 (feet), which is 2k yards on the plane's icon.
-
whats the difference between a bomber who bails from being caught by a fighter or a fighter who runs from a bomber ?
or a fighter that runs from a fighter ? in all cases its to escape being caught.
or what about the guy who ups a 190 and porks ords/dar and ditches ?
if you punish one you must punish the other
.
-
whats the difference between a bomber who bails from being caught by a fighter or a fighter who runs from a bomber ?
or a fighter that runs from a fighter ? in all cases its to escape being caught.
if you punish one you must punish the other
I think the bail proxy should be at least icon range (6k) for all aircraft. :aok
-
Not until the bombers are lightly (or legitimately) perked and there is far more emphasis on successfully landing (i.e., earning perk points), will there be any change in the bomb-n-bail types.
The easiest thing HTC could do is shuffle the ranking of "landed, ditched, bailed, crashed, captured, killed" (or whatever it is). Put bailing at the bottom. Give the player a reason to stay alive and in the air as long as possible.
I agree though, few things irk me as scouting out and intercepting enemy bombers only to get a few thousand yards away and watch them bail. I've started to record every occurrence like that and I've sent a few friendly PM's asking them why they were so shy for an engagement. The excuses are rather lame.
-
I think the bail proxy should be at least icon range (6k) for all aircraft. :aok
This ^^
As a frequent bomber pilot (Who doesn't bail when engaged) it would not bother me at all.
-
Two issues.
#1.
Is there any plans HTC may have to address the bomb & bail plague that just seems to be getting worse?
I don't answer loaded questions.
#2.
Proxy kills.
Has something changed with bombers & even being within 2.5K you get nothing now when they bail?
Nothing has changed.
HiTech
-
I think that in this case the issue is that 2.0k can be anything from 1750 yards to 2250 yards, and if you're over then you're over.
-
I think the bail proxy should be at least icon range (6k) for all aircraft. :aok
:aok
I'd go beyond icon range to vis range where they even show up as a dot.
-
I think the bail proxy should be at least icon range (6k) for all aircraft. :aok
:aok
-
A gv it's 6k to get successful landing?
Is it 2k in a gv to avoid giving the other guy a proxy?
2k for bomb and bail'rs giving the other guy a proxy?
-
I don't answer loaded questions.
Nothing has changed.
HiTech
On question #1 not sure how I would ask without it being considered a loaded question.
So I will just let that issue go.
On question #2 it boils down to urban legend/myth on my part 2.5K is not the range for proxy kills it is in fact 2K or less.
There is still an issue with proxy kills though.
The thread I posted in the bug forum has two films in it the second film is correct as the first aircraft explodes at 2.1k & should not have given me the proxy.
The first film though I am in range of the two remaining aircraft when he towers & I am awarded only 1 proxy.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,363896.0.html
-
AW style system messages......
Goober has been shot down
Goober has crashed
Goober has bailed
Goober has crashed a healthy plane/ vehicle
Goober has bailed from a healthy plane / vehicle
-
AW style system messages......
Goober has been shot down
Goober has crashed
Goober has bailed
Goober has crashed a healthy plane/ vehicle
Goober has bailed from a healthy plane / vehicle
Better still.
Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.
-
Better still.
Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.
To prevent the above:
1. drop bombs
2. nose down
3. rip wings.
4. bail.
And anyone using bomb&bail tactics is not interested in things like score anyway.
-
Better still.
Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.
Awesome. That will really cut down on the bomb and bailing. Unfortunately, there will be an oddly identical increase in
Goober has crashed a healthy plane/vehicle.
But that's apparently much better?
Oh wait, the next suggestion is the same thing will apply if they crash a healthy plane, right?
So he takes it through ground ack before he piles it in, making sure it pings him.
How is that an improvement?
Wiley.
-
On question #1 not sure how I would ask without it being considered a loaded question.
So I will just let that issue go.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,363896.0.html
The question presumes the existence of a bomb and bail plague. How could HTC remedy a plague that does not exist?
The question also presumes that it is within HTC's power and duty to regulate every little chitty and gamey act of its players.
It also presumes the existence of viable remedies.
I must be bored b/c I find that I really don't care about this.
-
To prevent the above:
1. drop bombs
2. nose down
3. rip wings.
4. bail.
And anyone using bomb&bail tactics is not interested in things like score anyway.
Goober has bailed.
Maybe players will note Goober bails quite alot.
The single biggest difference moving from AW to AH (14 years ago!) was the style of system message.
In AW there was no system message celebrating successes............. only failures. If Goober was shot down, crashed or bailed the whole arena was told. Indeed if you shot down an aircraft the only clue as to who it was .... was the subsequent system message of his demise..... no hint as to who had the kill. ( excepting macro's)
IMO this changes the game ephos considerably.
It must have been a very conscious decision by HT to adopt positive system messages. I assume AH's are much the same as WB's.
I remain however a fervent believer in BB's philosophy of "shame". As a motivating or de motivating influence.......
In AH only "Glory" is reported via system messages........ which whilst being all very " positive" IMO also encourages dweebish game play.
Actually BB argues that MMOG's should avoid shame to grow successfully. (His perspective is the learning curve as a demotivating factor not through time lost but shame incurred) But in making this point we see the power of shame........
So if we want to discourage stuff I would advocate the game model should provide an element of shame either directly or via a route that players would recognise.
For any one interested......
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131802/glory_and_shame_powerful_.php?print=1
-
A gv it's 6k to get successful landing?
Is it 2k in a gv to avoid giving the other guy a proxy?
2k for bomb and bail'rs giving the other guy a proxy?
If this is true, no one responded directly, why is it different for gv's? Bomb and bailers should need to be 6k too.
-
If this is true, no one responded directly, why is it different for gv's? Bomb and bailers should need to be 6k too.
It's not really different.
Proxy kill range is the same for both.
A GV ditching in enemy territory with enemy between 2k - 6k will get a "captured" result - a bailer will get a "captured" as well.
-
That was written by AW BlueBaron. Why does Hitech differ in his own analysis of player motivation as seen in this game? Both men developed for AW with Hitech moving on to develop two more air combat simms.
Mr. Baron was originally a political consultant, who are a breed hired to manipulate the worst out of people to benefit the personal fortunes of politicians. Not the politicians constituency, just his donors. His views on motivation result in the kinds of problems Skuzzy had to Mega WhupBan in our forums recently. Yes you can motivate with negative reinforcement and end up with an arena dominated by a minority of ch200 screeching narcissists. That's how we lost ch1. And needed a second MA instead of cramming 600 players together in the same arena. The rancid nature of community induced negative motivation without help from Hitech was reaping it's own reward. In politics it is a powerful way to get your guy elected and cover up his failings the rest of the time. You end up with an elite class and low information voters fed garbage by political consultants. Very aristocratic.
-
I was vulching a base yesterday (ack up) and ups this a6m. I kill him and then comes a formation of b25s I get shots in and he bails formation. Then he continues uping formations and as I get close he bails. I rack up 22 kills and head home to land.
Next sortie I fly back to the same base. Two spits around and the 25s are at about 3k. I go after the 25s and he bails, 3 kills. I fight with the spits and stay close to the field. The 25s keep uping under the fight and when I get a chance I poke at the formation 25s and he continues to bail as I get close. I rack up 14 total kills as a 190, stuka join the fight with the spits. So now the 4 vs 1 dogfight is getting epic. Then here come the formation 25s. This time guns blazing for the ho. I add him into the equation and as I get close he bails again. With time I succumb to the enemy. Nevertheless a good two sorties.
He bailed I got kills. I think we both got our kicks.
-
rgr
don't know what the solution is, but lately I just don't even chase bombers anymore if there are any ftrs around at all
-
I was vulching a base yesterday (ack up) and ups this a6m. I kill him and then comes a formation of b25s I get shots in and he bails formation. Then he continues uping formations and as I get close he bails. I rack up 22 kills and head home to land.
Next sortie I fly back to the same base. Two spits around and the 25s are at about 3k. I go after the 25s and he bails, 3 kills. I fight with the spits and stay close to the field. The 25s keep uping under the fight and when I get a chance I poke at the formation 25s and he continues to bail as I get close. I rack up 14 total kills as a 190, stuka join the fight with the spits. So now the 4 vs 1 dogfight is getting epic. Then here come the formation 25s. This time guns blazing for the ho. I add him into the equation and as I get close he bails again. With time I succumb to the enemy. Nevertheless a good two sorties.
He bailed I got kills. I think we both got our kicks.
At the time of writing the player in question seems to have bailed 74 times from 93 sorties........
You are right of course...... This player obviously gets his kicks this way.
-
What if...
if you bomb and then bail without receiving any damage yourself you get no points for bomb hits.
That would mean that if you have, prior to bomb drop, been engaged in a fight and received hits you could bail after bomb drop. But atleast you had engaged in a fight. Or after bomb drop you need to find somebody to give you damage, if you plan to bail -that is, but then again you have to give someone a chance of shooting you down or get a proxy kill of you.
You could further enhace the equation by adding the bailing over enemy territory without received damage. If the territory modifier was added you'd need to get back over friendly territory or have received damage before bailing out to receive points for bomb hits.
-C+
-
I'm not sure that there is any formula or method that HTC could use to punish bomb n bailers without punishing 'legit' players.
I don't like them either, I used to enjoy going after bombers. Lately though, almost every set I've encountered has bailed on me, except a select few. And those I have killed, have mostly been me in the 88, because they didn't see me coming. :D
-
What if...
if you bomb and then bail without receiving any damage yourself you get no points for bomb hits.
Would change nothing. Bomb'n'Bailers are not interested in points. It's all about 'war efficiency'.
Furtheremore, you could always just rip your wings before bailing. Or simply ride it down.
-
In AH only "Glory" is reported via system messages........ which whilst being all very " positive" IMO also encourages dweebish game play.
So very true.
But hey....everyone's a winner!
- oldman
-
At the time of writing the player in question seems to have bailed 74 times from 93 sorties........
You are right of course...... This player obviously gets his kicks this way.
were you chasing him every single time? I also have a lot of bails. Hard to get that achievement without baling.
semp
-
See rule #7
-
One solution might be some sort of delay: bailing from a perfectly good bomber would cause delay before one can take off again. But like charge mentioned, certain parameters are needed to avoid all bombers getting delay every time they bail or crash. Parameters like, there should be damage caused by another player or AI. Bailing or crashing a bomber without such damage would give 10 minutes of tower time (or more) to the player in general (so one can't roll M3 or ack Buster either).
But this of course might need some work and is somewhat far fetched too :(
/Edit. and of course, this might cause one more of those, "I can't bail from my bomber and play the game the way I want to so I quit my account and see you all" kinda threads...
-
One solution might be some sort of delay: bailing from a perfectly good bomber would cause delay before one can take off again. But like charge mentioned, certain parameters are needed to avoid all bombers getting delay every time they bail or crash. Parameters like, there should be damage caused by another player or AI. Bailing or crashing a bomber without such damage would give 10 minutes of tower time (or more) to the player in general (so one can't roll M3 or ack Buster either).
But this of course might need some work and is somewhat far fetched too :(
/Edit. and of course, this might cause one more of those, "I can't bail from my bomber and play the game the way I want to so I quit my account and see you all" kinda threads...
Now by parameters I hope you do not mean take a perfectly good game and screw it up in some poor attempt to make the loudest whiner feel better. This game is awesome because a player can do what he wants when he wants how he wants. Please do not turn it into some PC induced mediocrity.
-
I had my first bail today ... I'm all emotional. Spoted a low goon trying to sneck in. Dove from 13K to chase him on the deck ... and 'poof'. No kill :lol Glad I blew all my alt, I still could hear him giggling after he augered. :cheers:
-
Now by parameters I hope you do not mean take a perfectly good game and screw it up in some poor attempt to make the loudest whiner feel better. This game is awesome because a player can do what he wants when he wants how he wants. Please do not turn it into some PC induced mediocrity.
My point exactly: /Edit. and of course, this might cause one more of those, "I can't bail from my bomber and play the game the way I want to so I quit my account and see you all" kinda threads...
-
Shoot them down before they get to target. If it's this big of a problem, put the effort into a solution that actually accomplishes something. Bomb and Bailer problem solved, proxie kill issue resolved.
-
whats the difference between a bomber who bails from being caught by a fighter or a fighter who runs from a bomber ?
or a fighter that runs from a fighter ? in all cases its to escape being caught.
or what about the guy who ups a 190 and porks ords/dar and ditches ?
if you punish one you must punish the other
.
well said!
Helm ...out
-
One solution might be some sort of delay: bailing from a perfectly good bomber would cause delay before one can take off again. But like charge mentioned, certain parameters are needed to avoid all bombers getting delay every time they bail or crash. Parameters like, there should be damage caused by another player or AI. Bailing or crashing a bomber without such damage would give 10 minutes of tower time (or more) to the player in general (so one can't roll M3 or ack Buster either).
But this of course might need some work and is somewhat far fetched too :(
/Edit. and of course, this might cause one more of those, "I can't bail from my bomber and play the game the way I want to so I quit my account and see you all" kinda threads...
I crashed the first 8 or 9 b29's that I ever attempted to use. then again 2 or 3 years ago I crashed another 8 out 9 because somebody dare me to take from off from a certain field. just thursday, I lawndarted several 109e's as I would forget that you cant dive at more than 400mph. also I was in my pony being chased after picking a couple of guys. a 109 had speed and alt, was looking back waiting for him to get closer when I hit the water. I hadnt been damaged.
I have also bailed out of many bombers because the cv was already destroyed or I made a mistake and took off from the wrong field.
why I should I be penalized for the above just to fix a non-existent problem. yesterday I saw so many bombers that it was ridiculous. and yet I didnt see a single bomber bail out.
some of us attacked the bombers, but there were others than refused to attack them even though they had speed and alt on them. shouldnt this guys who didnt engaged also be penalized just like those in bombers who bail out for refusing to fight? like you propose?
semp
-
I think the bail proxy should be at least icon range (6k) for all aircraft. :ao+1
-
I crashed the first 8 or 9 b29's that I ever attempted to use. then again 2 or 3 years ago I crashed another 8 out 9 because somebody dare me to take from off from a certain field. just thursday, I lawndarted several 109e's as I would forget that you cant dive at more than 400mph. also I was in my pony being chased after picking a couple of guys. a 109 had speed and alt, was looking back waiting for him to get closer when I hit the water. I hadnt been damaged.
I have also bailed out of many bombers because the cv was already destroyed or I made a mistake and took off from the wrong field.
why I should I be penalized for the above just to fix a non-existent problem. yesterday I saw so many bombers that it was ridiculous. and yet I didnt see a single bomber bail out.
some of us attacked the bombers, but there were others than refused to attack them even though they had speed and alt on them. shouldnt this guys who didnt engaged also be penalized just like those in bombers who bail out for refusing to fight? like you propose?
semp
these guys, refusing to attack bombers? :lol i guess i understand, it is similar to me not chasing a 190 or P-51. It is very unfulfilling to be dragged around with the eventual gain being nothing and therefore a loss.
Like when that kinda dumb guy with a lot of power once said. "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on...aaa....aaa...shame on ME" :huh :rofl
-
I don't see many bailing, but I also don't chase bombers that much. If a bomber bails before he drops to avoid getting shot down, I win. If he bails after he drops to avoid getting shot down or to get back to fighting quicker, I don't really care.
I bail from fighters and gvs pretty often when theres nothing going on, to avoid a long RTB when the enemy is gone and it gets me to some other fight faster or my squad starts an op while I'm on climb out.
-
See Rule #2
-
I slow down for fighters, more fun that way.
-
I'm not sure that there is any formula or method that HTC could use to punish bomb n bailers without punishing 'legit' players.
Well said. And I think this sums up the whole issue. Every suggestion made would end up punishing a 'legit' player. So far we have no suggestions that would not interfere with legitimate gameplay somehow.
In any case, the bomb and bail group are really cheating themselves by treating this as an arcade game rather than a flight simulator. :airplane:
-
Usually, when I run into a bomb n' bailer, I get on ch200 and loose a vile stream of pixelated diarrhea., laced with obscenities, compound words, and physical impossibilities. Then I wipe up and continue flying.
-
Make landed sorties a lot more valuable than bails and ditches.............a lot more valuable.