Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Delirium on September 12, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
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My system is almost 4 years old now and it is starting to show its age. I was thinking about finally overclocking the CPU (the profiles are still in bios from when it was built) and I was considering buying a new video card but I'm not sure which one would be the best for my situation. My motherboard only supports up to PCI-E 2.0 X16.
This minor upgrade just needs to buy me about a year of AH. At that time I will plan on buying a new system.
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.7GHz
Memory: 6144MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 6136MB RAM
Page File: 2051MB used, 10216MB available
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Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
Display Memory: 3535 MB
Dedicated Memory: 723 MB
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Thermaltake Toughpower PSU 750W
+3.3@30A,+5V@28A,+12V1@18A,+12V2@18A,+12V3@18A,+12V4@18A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@3A
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Since you seem to be into nVidia, something like a GTX 760 or 770 might be what you're looking for, depending on your budget. I suppose a 2 GB version would be more preferable in the long run than a 1 GB one. Can't tell whether your CPU would cause a bottleneck or not, but in any case that won't cause any major issues. Your PSU is tough enough for both of those. PCI-e 2.0 should also be compatible both up- and downwards, so no problems in that direction either. Take a look at http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) to find the best bang for your buck.
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Since you seem to be into nVidia, something like a GTX 760 or 770 might be what you're looking for, depending on your budget. I suppose a 2 GB version would be more preferable in the long run than a 1 GB one. Can't tell whether your CPU would cause a bottleneck or not, but in any case that won't cause any major issues. Your PSU is tough enough for both of those. PCI-e 2.0 should also be compatible both up- and downwards, so no problems in that direction either. Take a look at http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) to find the best bang for your buck.
Yes definitely a 2Gb version of 760 or 770. That computer should never have been built with a low-end card like that, it's been bottlenecked all these years. If money was the issue you should have bought a cheaper CPU/mobo/ram and at least mid-level graphics card.
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Ever actually seen Del fly AH on that rig in the MA? Sure doesn't seem like it's hampered him. ;)
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Ever actually seen Del fly AH on that rig in the MA? Sure doesn't seem like it's hampered him. ;)
AH hasn't been able to take advantage of graphics capabilities so it was not affected, but most other recent game titles he may have played have.
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I don't see a 760 or a 770 that is PCI-E 2.0 compatible. Would it be worth it to get a cheaper card considering the 2.0 will hamper the 3.0 based card?
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I don't see a 760 or a 770 that is PCI-E 2.0 compatible. Would it be worth it to get a cheaper card considering the 2.0 will hamper the 3.0 based card?
All cards are backwards compatible. A 770 can't even fully use the 2.0 bus don't worry.
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Del,
If it was me I'd wait a couple weeks and grab a 780 titan when they reduce the prices!
The price has already dropped on rumours,I see titans being about the same price as the 760/770's are now!
I mean you could wait till after September,oh the 30th or so..... :devil
:salute
PS: It will be a great loss to AHTC!
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All cards are backwards compatible. A 770 can't even fully use the 2.0 bus don't worry.
More correctly, the same PCIe bottleneck exists in either version. PCIe is a performance drain for these cards. The GPUs in these cards are the largest chips in the world and could easily flood either bus, but they are designed not to. The goal of Nvidia is to come up with a way to get around the interface. So, we wait to see what Maxwell does, and then Pascal will probably by the true solution (fingers crossed).
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More correctly, the same PCIe bottleneck exists in either version. PCIe is a performance drain for these cards. The GPUs in these cards are the largest chips in the world and could easily flood either bus, but they are designed not to. The goal of Nvidia is to come up with a way to get around the interface. So, we wait to see what Maxwell does, and then Pascal will probably by the true solution (fingers crossed).
Please don't confuse people. It's enough to say the cards do not need a faster PCI-E bus. I just hate it when people waste their money with urban legends or misunderstandings such as 'a pci-e 3.0 compatible card absolutely has to have a 3.0 motherboard'.
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Please don't confuse people. It's enough to say the cards do not need a faster PCI-E bus. I just hate it when people waste their money with urban legends or misunderstandings such as 'a pci-e 3.0 compatible card absolutely has to have a 3.0 motherboard'.
I think that the only person here that is confused is you in that you have repeatedly made the same mistake, which demonstrates you do not understand the technology. What I said is very clear and accurate.
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Del, you might want to read this over at Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8426/the-intel-haswell-e-cpu-review-core-i7-5960x-i7-5930k-i7-5820k-tested/6
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I think that the only person here that is confused is you in that you have repeatedly made the same mistake, which demonstrates you do not understand the technology. What I said is very clear and accurate.
Stop the personal attacks. I have made no mistake, it's 100% fact that a current gen single graphics card does not saturate the PCI-E 2.0 x16 bus. End of story.
If anything, you demonstrate that you don't understand the technology, otherwise you'd know that the current generation cards use offloading to circumvent the limitations of the PCI-E bus. There's absolutely no need to confuse anyone with PCI-E 3.0. Spending money to a new 3.0 compliant motherboard would be wasted money, nothing else. Even the performance gain from the new CPU would be marginal considering the user aims to get a mid-tier card.
It's laughable to even suggest that a 6fps increase (according to your article) would be worth a 600-700 dollar extra investment lol. 100 bucks a frame/s. Maybe that's a great deal to you who knows :D
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Del I did a rebuild a few months back with an EVGA GTX760 2 G. $235 from Newegg. I'm very happy with it.
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So, more details. What's in the rumor pipeline?
I've been drooling over that liquid cooled Radeon R9 295x2. :devil
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If it was me I'd wait a couple weeks and grab a 780 titan when they reduce the prices!
The price has already dropped on rumours,I see titans being about the same price as the 760/770's are now!
I mean you could wait till after September,oh the 30th or so..... :devil
..
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Stop the personal attacks. I have made no mistake, it's 100% fact that a current gen single graphics card does not saturate the PCI-E 2.0 x16 bus. End of story.
Also not what I said.
It's laughable to even suggest that a 6fps increase (according to your article) would be worth a 600-700 dollar extra investment lol. 100 bucks a frame/s. Maybe that's a great deal to you who knows :D
Yeah, that's what I took away from that article. /sarcasm
If you look you will see that the very same socket that Delirium is using is represented by the 990X. You will also see that the performance is very game dependent. Bioshock, for instance, nearly doubles in FPS with SLI. Yet, the real story has nothing to do with SLI, but how capable the 1366 socket is. Most of the MBs made in this world only support 16 PCIe lanes. So if you SLI one of those boards you are still left with 16 PCIe lanes. The 1366 and 2011 support 32, and 40 lanes respectively. So, guess what happens if you have an LGA 1150 board with a GTX 680 plugged in, and then add an x1 audio card?
I have actually built a Quad SLI system and I have seen PCIe 2.0 saturated while switching to PCIe 3.0 doubles the fps.
Nvidia themselves made the same comment I did about the GPUs ability to saturate even PCIe 3.0. These cards are designed to work smoothly rather than saturate your board, which is why they do not.
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Nvidia has new video cards coming in a few days, so wait a week or two for prices to drop.
There is going to be a new data bus to replace PCIe in a future generation being developed by Nvidia, but its only going to be for servers doing compute. It will be a long time before we see anything replace PCIe, even for just graphics, even for high-end PC gaming systems. I would certainly guess more than 5 years, 10 more likely, if it happens at all. The new bus will be for compute-only products.
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Also not what I said.
Yeah, that's what I took away from that article. /sarcasm
If you look you will see that the very same socket that Delirium is using is represented by the 990X. You will also see that the performance is very game dependent. Bioshock, for instance, nearly doubles in FPS with SLI. Yet, the real story has nothing to do with SLI, but how capable the 1366 socket is. Most of the MBs made in this world only support 16 PCIe lanes. So if you SLI one of those boards you are still left with 16 PCIe lanes. The 1366 and 2011 support 32, and 40 lanes respectively. So, guess what happens if you have an LGA 1150 board with a GTX 680 plugged in, and then add an x1 audio card?
I have actually built a Quad SLI system and I have seen PCIe 2.0 saturated while switching to PCIe 3.0 doubles the fps.
Nvidia themselves made the same comment I did about the GPUs ability to saturate even PCIe 3.0. These cards are designed to work smoothly rather than saturate your board, which is why they do not.
The OP is getting a single mid-level card so your SLI stories are not relevant. He has zero need to upgrade his motherboard/cpu/ram for a 770. What Nvidia is planning to do with the direct interchange link is SLI specific and doesn't affect normal users.
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The OP is getting a single mid-level card so your SLI stories are not relevant.
Oh, you decided that for him did you? I didn't see that in the thread. The point of presenting data is so he can make up his own mind.
Right now I would not plan on buying Maxwell. The new cards will use 28nm GPUs and just next spring the GPUs will be 16nm. Del said he wants to upgrade his system but really there is not much advantage to be had outside of his current motherboard with a faster CPU and GPU. Still, without know specifically which MB he has it would be hard to jump to making recommendations.
And once again I find myself making a clarification because of your misstep. The SLI information was given because you made an inaccurate statement.
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Del, if you plan to play other games , buy as high-end as you can afford.
changed my 7870 for a 780gtx, its not much better for AH, but for other games its worlds apart.
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If the card will prevent me from having to upgrade for another year or so, I'm going to do it. Here are the three I'm looking at...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130949
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121837
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121878
I am going to take the advice given and wait a week or two before the purchase to allow the Titans to drop the price a little.
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I also have two more 2gig ram sticks in my desk that exactly match what I have in my machine now. Any problems with me throwing them in there to give me 10gig of ram total?
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I also have two more 2gig ram sticks in my desk that exactly match what I have in my machine now. Any problems with me throwing them in there to give me 10gig of ram total?
You have 2 x 2GB of RAM to go to 10GB total? How did you start with 6 GB of RAM?
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Oh, you decided that for him did you? I didn't see that in the thread. The point of presenting data is so he can make up his own mind.
Right now I would not plan on buying Maxwell. The new cards will use 28nm GPUs and just next spring the GPUs will be 16nm. Del said he wants to upgrade his system but really there is not much advantage to be had outside of his current motherboard with a faster CPU and GPU. Still, without know specifically which MB he has it would be hard to jump to making recommendations.
And once again I find myself making a clarification because of your misstep. The SLI information was given because you made an inaccurate statement.
So instead of getting a single higher end card which is 100% more effective for AH and more trouble free in all games, you're suggesting now a SLI setup with a latest gen motherboard that would end up costing him triple the money. Considering SLI doesn't even work with AH you're giving pretty horrible advice here. What Delirium needs now to get a price efficient and easy boost to his fps is simply a better graphics card. He has all the rest thats needed. Following your advice would end up costing him hundreds of bucks of money for nothing basically.
The only reason why you brought up SLI in the first place was because you probably googled it and found out that no single present card needs more than PCI-E 2.0 x16 to work lol.
Edit: Oh and I see you block private messages, but I can see why you would do that :D
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Just to show how far off Chalenge is with his 'knowledge' here's a screenshot of my GTX660 box running World Of Tanks at maximum graphics settings.
Note the PCI-E use % :D
(http://i61.tinypic.com/153qxwm.png)
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You have 2 x 2GB of RAM to go to 10GB total? How did you start with 6 GB of RAM?
He has triple channel memory, he has to upgrade all 3 sticks to get more ram.
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So basically I need to add 3 sticks at a time, or upgrade the sticks I currently have in the computer. Installing the 2 extra simms won't help much at all?
Here is the ram I currently have.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381
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So basically I need to add 3 sticks at a time, or upgrade the sticks I currently have in the computer. Installing the 2 extra simms won't help much at all?
Here is the ram I currently have.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381
Correct, Del. It needs to be installed in sets of 3.
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Yes definitely a 2Gb version of 760 or 770. That computer should never have been built with a low-end card like that, it's been bottlenecked all these years. If money was the issue you should have bought a cheaper CPU/mobo/ram and at least mid-level graphics card.
GTX 460 was new when this computer was built. Probably around $200.
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GTX 460 was new when this computer was built. Probably around $200.
The 460 wasn't even around when this computer was put together.
Correction, this machine is over 5 years old already. It was built in Feb 2009.
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Del.....I just purchased and installed an EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti. Was on sale at best buy for 170 dollars.
Spectacular performance and very good price.
Morfiend saw the results in our Alpha Testing reports.
I was using and NVidia Geforce 630 GT. The difference between the two were immense.
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GTX 460 was new when this computer was built. Probably around $200.
I paid over 300 for mine around the time they came out.
semp
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I found the same ram I currently have for $35, low voltage and everything. I through in 3 more sticks so I have 12gig of ram total.
Should I have any problem running any video cards, power supply wise? Here are the three I'm looking at...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130949
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121837
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121878
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I found the same ram I currently have for $35, low voltage and everything. I through in 3 more sticks so I have 12gig of ram total.
Should I have any problem running any video cards, power supply wise? Here are the three I'm looking at...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130949
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121837
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121878
Del I had a GeForce 630 GT in my box. My Box had a 350 watt power supply. Not enough for the cards you list or the GTX 750 Ti I purchased.
I installed a new power supply at Morfiends suggestion. I upgraded to a 750 watt Corsair Power supply.
If you plan on running Sli (which some of the cards you posted were able to do) if your PS is 500 watts or under, I would suggest a PS upgrade.
If you do I would suggest 750 watts or greater.
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I have the following outputs on my power supply.
+3.3@30A,+5V@28A,+12V1@18A,+12V2@18A,+12V3@18A,+12V4@18A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@3A
Am I to assume that if a video card requires 42Amps, the best my 750W power supply can put out on those 2 rails is 36 (18x2)Amps?
The video card looks like it only has two plugs on it, hence the 2 rails mentioned above.