Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nypsy on October 04, 2014, 07:48:28 AM
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It was a very good book. I hope the movie is good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MItGoIxoVGk
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+101...!!!
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It was a very good book. I hope the movie is good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MItGoIxoVGk
Hopefully the movie is what the trailer suggest however if i am to just judge by the trailer i (and the directer) i would have to go watch it and perhaps read the book. Unlike many glory filled war movies recently, it seems like it actually shows the emotionally difficult decisions our soldiers have to make overseas. I will not discuss if i agree with the war in the middle east or not but the fact is a soldier is a soldier just answering the call whether they want to or not. Thats why despite the reason of war we should always respect. :rock
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Watched the movie this afternoon, it was very good, IMHO,,I need to get the book.
I felt like I'd been to a funeral when it was over,, not that that was a bad thing,, just don't ever remember going to a movie that left me feeling that way before.
Number one movie I can remember going to but it will be tough for me to watch again!
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Clint Eastwood usually doesn't disappoint. I think it'll be a well done film.
What I'm wondering is did they film the scene where Kyle KOs Jesse Ventura in a bar, and if so will Ventura sue the filmmakers too. :bolt:
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Clint Eastwood usually doesn't disappoint. I think it'll be a well done film.
What I'm wondering is did they film the scene where Kyle KOs Jesse Ventura in a bar, and if so will Ventura sue the filmmakers too. :bolt:
no. It's not in it
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The movie was "OK". Some actual events were not true or enhanced for Hollywood, "at least according to Kyles own words in his book".
Im not sure how the special forces community feels about the Self-aggrandizement , the money making, or the coming out in whats supposed to be a secret community. Thats for them to judge. Not me, not you. These guys, all branches, go thru hell for what? a 1% raise this year? So what right would we have to say anything?
I guess the entire ego and money thing with this Ventura guy left a bad taste in my mouth. That and I remember another war we did the body count thing, its a bad way to go about business. But where the book, the movie, and Eastwood gets it right is the incredible suffering our troops go thru in these foreign war's, especially in that part of the world where Ive personally experienced the unrelenting hate. I suspect that was Kyles main purpose, and why he died the way he did. Helping other Vet's cope.
That should be his legacy. Not the body count.
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I cried that's all I have to say. :salute :salute
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Watched the movie this afternoon, it was very good, IMHO,,I need to get the book.
I felt like I'd been to a funeral when it was over,, not that that was a bad thing,, just don't ever remember going to a movie that left me feeling that way before.
Number one movie I can remember going to but it will be tough for me to watch again!
That's weird I had that same feeling after watching Lone Survivor which IMO was directed and acted very well , I look forward to watching this movie as I've already read the book and as others have said it's good to see a movie that deals with the emotional traumas our soldiers and families go through.
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Just saw it today. Good movie.
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I cried that's all I have to say. :salute :salute
You aint the only one.
It really is a good movie. The baby scene after his first deployment is terrible but besides that it is a great movie.
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Great Movie...Great Acting...Great Warrior
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Watched it yesterday. D!#$ good
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I cried that's all I have to say. :salute :salute
yep
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The movie was "OK". Some actual events were not true or enhanced for Hollywood, "at least according to Kyles own words in his book".
Im not sure how the special forces community feels about the Self-aggrandizement , the money making, or the coming out in whats supposed to be a secret community. Thats for them to judge. Not me, not you. These guys, all branches, go thru hell for what? a 1% raise this year? So what right would we have to say anything?
I guess the entire ego and money thing with this Ventura guy left a bad taste in my mouth. That and I remember another war we did the body count thing, its a bad way to go about business. But where the book, the movie, and Eastwood gets it right is the incredible suffering our troops go thru in these foreign war's, especially in that part of the world where Ive personally experienced the unrelenting hate. I suspect that was Kyles main purpose, and why he died the way he did. Helping other Vet's cope.
That should be his legacy. Not the body count.
Agreed this movie was mediocre. I thought the film meandered and wasn't sure what it wanted to say. Hurt Locker was a much more cohesive film
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Almost as good as Nation's Pride.
And the Ventura thing, never happened. Was a lie by Kyle to promote his book. Ventura sued Kyles estate and won.
http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html)
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So you didn't see the movie,, ok!
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Almost as good as Nation's Pride.
And the Ventura thing, never happened. Was a lie by Kyle to promote his book. Ventura sued Kyles estate and won.
http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html)
Virtually every SEAL asked said that they would take Kyle's word over that of Ventura...
That said, Ventura was told in no uncertain terms, that if he EVER shows up at any SEAL function, party or event, he WILL be leaving on his back. Any courtesy he received in the past is done and over. He is now a pariah.
Meanwhile, Kyle's wife is appealing the verdict... Her lawyers are expected to present an eyewitness, who came forward after the jury decision. I would not be surprised at the case being overturned.
Indeed, I would be delighted.
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Agreed this movie was mediocre. I thought the film meandered and wasn't sure what it wanted to say. Hurt Locker was a much more cohesive film
Is that a troll? Hurt Locker was a pathetic excuse for a war movie.
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Just watched American sniper I thought it was a good movie right up until the last Chapter at which point it became a great movie
:salute Sgt kyle not for his kill rate but his work saving others from the aftermath of war
Just a little footnote the worlds longest range sniper kill , taken by a British shooter who also had a better hit ratio and is still alive
How about a movie about him but that wont happen as The film industry is controlled by the USA and don't want the rest of the world to know that the British Soldier is better trained and less trigger happy hence less blue on blue and lower collateral damage
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Almost as good as Nation's Pride.
And the Ventura thing, never happened. Was a lie by Kyle to promote his book. Ventura sued Kyles estate and won.
http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2014/07/chris_kyle_trial_jurors_warn_t.html)
I dont care if it happened or not. Only a low life would sue a mother and child who just lost a husband and father over a supposed slight in a book saying he lost a fist fight. Has the world gone mad? What kind of jury or judge would even punish this girl and kid like that? Over this? In the end it all comes down to the money doesnt it?
I hope the Military family expels Ventura from it. For sure I bet he'll never show his face at a Navy bar again. Honestly I think all those 'roids he took back in his wrestling days made him kinda whacko.
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Just a little footnote the worlds longest range sniper kill , taken by a British shooter who also had a better hit ratio and is still alive
How about a movie about him but that wont happen as The film industry is controlled by the USA and don't want the rest of the world to know that the British Soldier is better trained and less trigger happy hence less blue on blue and lower collateral damage
Better trained? Doubt it! All the best Brits came to the America a few hundred years ago.
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http://listverse.com/2009/11/13/top-10-snipers-in-history/
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Just watched American sniper I thought it was a good movie right up until the last Chapter at which point it became a great movie
:salute Sgt kyle not for his kill rate but his work saving others from the aftermath of war
Just a little footnote the worlds longest range sniper kill , taken by a British shooter who also had a better hit ratio and is still alive
How about a movie about him but that wont happen as The film industry is controlled by the USA and don't want the rest of the world to know that the British Soldier is better trained and less trigger happy hence less blue on blue and lower collateral damage
Are the British incapable of making a movie? Or do they need the Americans to help with that too.
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How about a movie about him but that wont happen as The film industry is controlled by the USA and don't want the rest of the world to know that the British Soldier is better trained and less trigger happy hence less blue on blue and lower collateral damage
Yes, that is surely what it is all about, leaving British accomplishment out of Hollywood films because, well that is what Hollywood does. They all get together and try to figure out how to insult other countries,(like you just did). They certainly never make movies to make money.
Is there any possibility that no one would want to pay good money to watch a tea drinking, limey gnawing, no teeth ingrate, embellish his wartime exploits on the big screen?
Be thankful you do not speak German, and yes, you're welcome.
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Woah guys..woah.
Respect each other, your nations and the ones who did the fighting on both sides.
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Zoney, that's just crazy talk. U571 was a fine film that gave the British their due.
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Just watched American sniper I thought it was a good movie right up until the last Chapter at which point it became a great movie
:salute Sgt kyle not for his kill rate but his work saving others from the aftermath of war
Just a little footnote the worlds longest range sniper kill , taken by a British shooter who also had a better hit ratio and is still alive
How about a movie about him but that wont happen as The film industry is controlled by the USA and don't want the rest of the world to know that the British Soldier is better trained and less trigger happy hence less blue on blue and lower collateral damage
He's in the Navy....so he is not a Sergeant.
And they aren't saying he is the best Sniper in the world, I'm sure in Sniper School he learned of many historically great Snipers around the world, known for many different shots...
Did they ever confirm that kill? Last I heard the body he "dropped" was never found.
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The movie was "OK". Some actual events were not true or enhanced for Hollywood, "at least according to Kyles own words in his book".
Im not sure how the special forces community feels about the Self-aggrandizement , the money making, or the coming out in whats supposed to be a secret community. Thats for them to judge. Not me, not you. These guys, all branches, go thru hell for what? a 1% raise this year? So what right would we have to say anything?
I guess the entire ego and money thing with this Ventura guy left a bad taste in my mouth. That and I remember another war we did the body count thing, its a bad way to go about business. But where the book, the movie, and Eastwood gets it right is the incredible suffering our troops go thru in these foreign war's, especially in that part of the world where Ive personally experienced the unrelenting hate. I suspect that was Kyles main purpose, and why he died the way he did. Helping other Vet's cope.
That should be his legacy. Not the body count.
I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
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I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
I totally agree in that. But its on the other hand not unique for this movie.
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I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
It must have been written by a kool-aid drinking hippie.
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There's enough ignorance in this thread to qualify as a government agency.
Kyle was a SEAL, left the Navy because his family was #1 priority. I believe he left as a Chief Petty Officer.
He is credited with "over 160" confirmed kills. Most there with him state that the actual count is about double that.
Kyle admitted that he was far from the best shot among snipers. However, that game has many more skill sets than just marksmanship. Kyle didn't consider himself even remotely in the league of Carlos Hathcock. Kyle's humility was very refreshing.
Within the SEALs, Kyle was referred to as the "Legend". It's more than a tongue-in-cheek nickname.
Over 300 Iraq war vets have testified to having been saved by Kyle. Yet, Kyle gave most credit to other snipers.
The film is based on Kyle's book. That book has generated over 2.5 million dollars in income, every dime of which was given to charity. Kyle took none of the profits.
Two Silver Stars, four Bronze stars. There's a push to get one of the Silver Stars upgraded to a CMoH. You can be sure Kyle would object if he were alive.
Two SEALs witnessed Kyle knocking Ventura on his arse, but were deployed when the case went to trial. One has since left the Navy and will testify at the appeal hearing.
Finally, READ THE BOOK! And, read "The Life and Legend of Chris Kyle". Much of Kyle's life and military career were not discussed in Kyle's book.
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I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
I suppose that the idiot who wrote the review failed to notice that the film was based upon a man's personal story.
Some people are so stupid that if breathing wasn't a reflex, they'd immediately suffocate....
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There's enough ignorance in this thread to qualify as a government agency.
Kyle was a SEAL, left the Navy because his family was #1 priority. I believe he left as a Chief Petty Officer.
He is credited with "over 160" confirmed kills. Most there with him state that the actual count is about double that.
Kyle admitted that he was far from the best shot among snipers. However, that game has many more skill sets than just marksmanship. Kyle didn't consider himself even remotely in the league of Carlos Hathcock. Kyle's humility was very refreshing.
Within the SEALs, Kyle was referred to as the "Legend". It's more than a tongue-in-cheek nickname.
Over 300 Iraq war vets have testified to having been saved by Kyle. Yet, Kyle gave most credit to other snipers.
The film is based on Kyle's book. That book has generated over 2.5 million dollars in income, every dime of which was given to charity. Kyle took none of the profits.
Two Silver Stars, four Bronze stars. There's a push to get one of the Silver Stars upgraded to a CMoH. You can be sure Kyle would object if he were alive.
Two SEALs witnessed Kyle knocking Ventura on his arse, but were deployed when the case went to trial. One has since left the Navy and will testify at the appeal hearing.
Finally, READ THE BOOK! And, read "The Life and Legend of Chris Kyle". Much of Kyle's life and military career were not discussed in Kyle's book.
. +1
And in his own words
http://youtu.be/IiVDtNjORbY
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"There’s a story about Chris Kyle: on a cold January morning in 2010, he pulled into a gas station somewhere along Highway 67, south of Dallas. He was driving his supercharged black Ford F350 outfitted with black rims and oversize knobby mudding tires. Kyle had replaced the Ford logo on the grill with a small chrome skull, similar to the Punisher emblem from the Marvel Comics series, and added a riot-ready aftermarket grill guard bearing the words ROAD ARMOR. He had just left the Navy and moved back to Texas.
Two guys approached him with pistols and demanded his money and the keys to his truck. With his hands in the air, he sized up which man seemed most confident with his gun.
Kyle knew what confidence with a gun looked like. He was the deadliest sniper in American history. He had at least 160 confirmed kills by the Pentagon’s count, but by his own count—and the accounts of his Navy SEAL teammates—the number was closer to twice that. In his four tours of duty in Iraq, Kyle earned two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars with Valor. He survived six IED attacks, three gunshot wounds, two helicopter crashes, and more surgeries than he could remember. He was known among his SEAL brethren as The Legend and to his enemies as al-Shaitan, “the devil.”
He told the robbers that he just needed to reach back into the truck to get the keys. He turned around and reached under his winter coat instead, into his waistband. With his right hand, he grabbed his Colt 1911. He fired two shots under his left armpit, hitting the first man twice in the chest. Then he turned slightly and fired two more times, hitting the second man twice in the chest. Both men fell dead.
Kyle leaned on his truck and waited for the police.
When they arrived, they detained him while they ran his driver’s license. But instead of his name, address, and date of birth, what came up was a phone number at the Department of Defense. At the other end of the line was someone who explained that the police were in the presence of one of the most skilled fighters in U.S. military history. When they reviewed the surveillance footage, the officers found the incident had happened just as Kyle had described it. They were very understanding, and they didn't want to drag a just-home, highly decorated veteran into a messy legal situation.
Kyle wasn't unnerved or bothered. Quite the opposite. He’d been feeling depressed since he left the service, struggling to adjust to civilian life. This was an exciting reminder of the action he missed.
That night, talking on the phone to his wife, Taya, who was in the process of moving with their kids from California, he was a good husband. He asked how her day was. The way some people tell it, he got caught up in their conversation, and only right before they hung up did he remember his big news of the day: “Oh, yeah, I shot two guys trying to steal my truck today.”
A brief description of the incident appeared in fellow SEAL Marcus Luttrell’s 2012 book Service: a Navy SEAL at War— but not Kyle’s own best-seller, American Sniper—and there are mentions of it in various forums deep in the corners of the internet. Before Kyle’s murder at the hands of a fellow veteran in February, I asked him about that story during an interview in his office last year, as part of what was supposed to be an extended, in-depth magazine story about his service and how hard he worked to adjust back to this world—to become the great husband and father and Christian he’d always wanted to be.
He didn’t want to get into specifics about the gas station shooting, but I left that day believing it had happened."
http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2013/april/the-legend-of-chris-kyle-01?single=1 (http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2013/april/the-legend-of-chris-kyle-01?single=1)
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Virtually every SEAL asked said that they would take Kyle's word over that of Ventura...
That said, Ventura was told in no uncertain terms, that if he EVER shows up at any SEAL function, party or event, he WILL be leaving on his back. Any courtesy he received in the past is done and over. He is now a pariah.
Meanwhile, Kyle's wife is appealing the verdict... Her lawyers are expected to present an eyewitness, who came forward after the jury decision. I would not be surprised at the case being overturned.
Indeed, I would be delighted.
Approximately three years ago I was having dinner with a friend who'd served in special forces during Vietnam. While we were talking the high school principal came up and my friend introduced him. Come to find out he had been a navy seal. The had a little fun with me sense I had never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane and have spent my time drinking beer while station in Germany. During the course of the conversation the seal said he was there when Kyle knocked Ventura on his ass'.
I had no reason then nor now to doubt his words!
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Got to see it yesterday. I have to say it was a pretty good movie. The thing that amazed me the most was when the movie was over and people were leaving the theater almost most no one was talking, and the very few that were talked in whispers. I don't know if it was because people were tearing up, or in awe, or out of respect. I'm go with the last :salute
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I also saw it yesterday.
When Kyle met with the recruiter, unlike many guys younger than he was when enlisting, he had a notion that his country needed him. When he watched WTC towers fall, he was certain of his purpose, and resolved to do his duty. That is the story here, I think. Fighting spirit is the proper term. Without it, none of us would enjoy the liberty which empowers vigorous debates about right and wrong.
Intellectuals, in my opinion, are free to cast aspersions upon any geo-political-economic events they see fit. But where I live, they should be quite careful to leave the soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardsmen out of the discussion. At a minimum, crossing that line would earn them a fat lip.
I can't agree to 10-year wars run by fuzzy headed politicians (amateurs). It breaks my heart to see so many young people of one generation maimed and destroyed spiritually. Honoring those individuals is the very least we can do. If you haven't supported these servicemen before now, let Kyle's story inspire you.
:salute
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I got to go see this movie .
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Are the British incapable of making a movie? Or do they need the Americans to help with that too.
Britains dont like to make things up and American film producers make films to please the American public.
It is quite appalling that you view these films as a historical representation of historical events.
By the way WWII started in 1939 not 1941.
Has North Korea invaded yet and has Lincoln killed any vampires recently?.
A colonial did admit to me that the film was a bit like a propaganda film WWII, i wont name him just incase the pitchforks come out and a witch trails occurs :old:
Pearl Habour was a very good film especially the romance scenes, and so was Redtails :old:
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Pearl Habour was a very good film especially the romance scenes, and so was Redtails :old:
:rofl
Zack rules. :old:
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Is that a troll? Hurt Locker was a pathetic excuse for a war movie.
I, too, thought Hurt Locker wasn't good. It was a typical mediocre Hollywood movie.
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Britains dont like to make things up
That's what makes Doctor Who, Monty Python, Red Dwarf, Downton Abbey, Gormanghast, and The Tudors so good.
and American film producers make films to please the American public.
And, boy, do they suck at it often.
It is quite appalling that you view these films as a historical representation of historical events.
Well, some are mostly true with some changes to make it a movie (American Sniper, Midway, A Bridge Too Far, maybe Lawrence of Arabia, Galipoli), some don't depict specific historical events but get the larger context completely correct (Das Boot, Battle of Britain, 12 O'Clock High -- and Lincoln Vampire Hunter, of course), and many are complete crap (Pearl Harbor, U571, etc.) -- this last category being the one for which it's appalling. Only a small number are correct in most picky details (like Theirs is the Glory, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, Band of Brothers).
A colonial did admit to me that the film was a bit like a propaganda film WWII, i wont name him just incase the pitchforks come out and a witch trails occurs
Yes -- Col. Seth Rogan. ;)
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I saw it today. My wife and I thought that it was a good movie and were happy to see it.
Judging it just on cinematic aspects (no judgement about the real person or history), I would say that it is good, but I wouldn't be as inclined to see it again as for some others that are my favorites (Lawrence of Arabia, A Bridge Too Far, Midway, Das Boot, Downfall, the first part of Saving Private Ryan, as a few examples).
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The film is based on Kyle's book. That book has generated over 2.5 million dollars in income, every dime of which was given to charity. Kyle took none of the profits.
roadkill, the court case revealed that only 2% of the profits went to charity. The rest went into Kyle's and his family's pocket.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2 (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2)
And it seems he lied about a few other things
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/)
It paints the picture of a man who was a sociopath and a liar.
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I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
I have not seen the film yet but I did hear something very similar to your comments. I'll wait for it to show up on Netflix.
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If anyone thinks a widow with kids is going to give away millions and live on nothing then I have a bridge to sell you.
Nor do I believe kill counts, or believe in the strategy behind them. Look at what their doing now, gloating over all these thousands of ISIS they somehow figured we kilt to try and convince the stupidest among us we actually have a strategy to win a war with airplanes and drones.
Ive known "legends" myself. Their kill counts seems to change from person to person they talk to. There is always an element of hyperbole in most of these stories. Its human nature that by the third time the story is told it has become %50 BS.
The stick up story is easy to prove or disprove. Even were he Jesus there would have been a case report made and a investigation to either justify it or not. Nobody gets to "just walk" after a killing and getting copies of reports is easy.
All this is why I neither tell, nor want to hear, war stories. I had my co-workers calling me "Legend" once after an incident and thought it pretty dumb. Ive never once told anyone that story, we all do what we have to do to survive.
I never knew Kyle, Im sure he was an outstanding troop. But his widow is going to have to learn it only takes one Lie to call into question her husbands legacy. I honestly think spec ops troops should have to sign non-disclosures which legally prevent them from speaking about their combat experiences afterwards. Doing so may give an edge to the enemy.
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Saw American Sniper the other day ..dragged Kathy out to see it even :)
Gotta wonder about people goin off about a 'based on a true story' movie.
The movie was actually better than I thought it would be.
I had never heard of Kyle ..then again, I haven't heard of more than 99% of the people that have been there or are there now.
I do know that nicknames are picked by the people around you IRL and most are delivered with sarcasm ..and the best response is to own it.
ie: I was called 'Wild Willy' when I was in Southeast Asia .. my friends called me that because I was a bit 'ate up'
.. rules and procedure oriented and did not get all crazy downtown
.. much
-evil grin-
..heck I was even a member of the R/C flying club.
We spent most weekends we could building an flyin our planes
..instead of workin on a downtown 'body count' like the 'slut puppies' did.
So the fact that he was called 'Legend' by his friends tells a lot about the man.
Short for Legend in his own mind perhaps. -shrug-
Doesn't matter, he was there doin the deed.
Like many others.
It's a good story anyway, and like others have mentioned, it was quiet walking out when the movie was over.
A damn shame how it ended ..the guy deserved better.
-GE aka Frank (just sayin -tm Pasha)
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Wow, this movie has outgrossed the last 18 anti-war/soldier/US movies combined (there were a bunch from '04-'09, all of which had a common thread)
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Personally I feel it was a story to highlight personal mental hardships and what the guys need to do/think when they are in situations like this...granted it only lightly skimmed the surface of this but it was there enough to make you feel it.... From the sniping itself to the guys who are covered by them...they all have a feeling toward it when they are there and what makes them feel a little safer...and no matter who you are, killing has to pay a toll at some stage.... The fact that he is not here anymore is possibly why they use Kyle (and the already published works by the guy) as it can be shown without causing too much of a rukus... I did think it could be seen as a little propagandist but any nation making a movie about their own is like this... The fact that his life was taken by someone who he knew to be in a similar removed/lost state, that he had fought to get back from is a telling tale also.... as I say... it only skims the surface of the mental hardships but does cover a few from a guy who is for god and country, those who feel safer knowing someone is watching their back...(even if there isn't) the thought is there, to those who are sent and don't want to be there... Possibly not the best movie of this type but I felt ...other than a few jumps which because of the subtlety made it lose momentum ... it allowed the watcher to garner their own thoughts and reflections on things.... unlike For example Fury (another new one..different time but similar get a feel style) It was fully shoved in your face how to feel... loved that movie though.
This was my take on it.... I have seen a few reviews and wonder if they even actually watched it...I think some are so far distanced from how life is sometimes.
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I'd read a pretty scathing critique earlier today about how disingenuous the film was. No mention of Saddam, or WMDs, or any of the ACTUAL reasons the US gave for going into Iraq. Kyle is presented as a one-man army and the rest of the troops were utterly helpless and aimless without him playing Captain America to lead the way. The film acted as if there was no such thing as civilians, and everyone in Iraq was either a US soldier or an Al Qaida militant, and there was nothing in-between.
I suspect that critique is written by someone with an agenda.
This is a movie, not a documentary, so they are going (like all movies do) adjust things to make it work (in the opinion of the film makers) better as a movie. Talking about Saddam, etc., is not what this movie is about. There's one scene of the main character watching the 9/11 terrorist attacks that are portrayed as mattering to him. It's a brief establishing scene. It's not a movie about US government motivations and doesn't invest its time in that area. He's not a one-man army in the film (as the final war scene makes clear). The film isn't about Iraqi civilians and is focused instead on activities on war missions, although, it does have people in between (namely, the poor family members who have terrible things happening to them because of the war). If a person watches this film and does not feel for those people, it is, I think, a willful oversight. It also doesn't have in it: lots of MASH-like operating scenes, life outside the war zone, evacuation of war zones, West Wing-like focus on the politics, information about logistics and supply (although critical to warfare), etc. It's not a move about those elements.
The reviewer might as well complain that Das Boot doesn't cover enough civilian life, doesn't focus on the families of seamen killed by u boats, doesn't thoroughly cover the reasons why Germany was at war, portrays the u boat captain as more important than he was, etc. -- basically, a bunch of nonsense considering what that film was about.
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By the way, I'd love to see a movie made about Simo Häyhä.
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By the way, I'd love to see a movie made about Simo Häyhä.
There was a screenplay being shopped around about his exploits during the Winter War and a movie (Finnish) was supposed to be in development but that was back in 2006.
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movie was alright, it wasnt saving pvt ryan or anything like that. I fell asleep for about 1/2 an hr. then walked out when the credits started, I did hear a couple of people saying the movie was disappointing.
semp
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I'm reading the book right now.. about 3/4 of the way through. It's not exactly well written in my opinion but comes across as someones honest thoughts and memories.
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I dont care if it happened or not. Only a low life would sue a mother and child who just lost a husband and father over a supposed slight in a book saying he lost a fist fight. Has the world gone mad? What kind of jury or judge would even punish this girl and kid like that? Over this? In the end it all comes down to the money doesnt it?
I hope the Military family expels Ventura from it. For sure I bet he'll never show his face at a Navy bar again. Honestly I think all those 'roids he took back in his wrestling days made him kinda whacko.
BINGO
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.
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Britains dont like to make things up and American film producers make films to please the American public.
It is quite appalling that you view these films as a historical representation of historical events.
By the way WWII started in 1939 not 1941.
Has North Korea invaded yet and has Lincoln killed any vampires recently?.
A colonial did admit to me that the film was a bit like a propaganda film WWII, i wont name him just incase the pitchforks come out and a witch trails occurs :old:
Pearl Habour was a very good film especially the romance scenes, and so was Redtails :old:
haha :aok
I thought this film was plop.
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I suppose that the idiot who wrote the review failed to notice that the film was based upon a man's personal story.
Some people are so stupid that if breathing wasn't a reflex, they'd immediately suffocate....
"based" on a man's personal story is the same as part of it is true but some or perhaps most was either enhanced or is misleading in order to make the movie more appealing and thus make more money. as an example it's common knowledge that the book's profits was given to charity. on the other hand it's been said in court that it isnt actually accurate.
saving pvt ryan is loosely based on a true story. it doesnt make it real. is american sniper loosely based on a true story? I dont know I never read the book and then again the book is mostly based on a true story.
not to take anything from kyle's true story, but books and movies are made and changed to make it more appealing and thus sell more. same as lone survivor, it's being criticized as not actually being true to the story, then again, who's to tell what the actually story is?
as for Ventura's story, well it's been proven that it didnt happen. had it happen it would have shown on ventura as he takes blood thinners, and he bruises easily. and it was proven that at the time he didnt have any bruises, dont know about you but if I get hit by a guy of kyle's size, I would for sure show a bruise or two, blood thinners or not. I am always skeptical of witnesses that come in after the fact.
having said that, I admire kyle for his service as well as for his willingness to help others. but to be honest I never heard of him 'till he died. on the other hand we have a vet that is suffering from ptsd now facing murder chargers and execution. I feel for all 3 of them. none of them should have been there.
semp
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Britains dont like to make things up and American film producers make films to please the American public.
It is quite appalling that you view these films as a historical representation of historical events.
Have you ever served in Afghanistan or Iraq? NO? then you have no idea if it is historically accurate, many of my Marine buds who served at that time say it does a damn good job at representing.
I'll take their word as to how historically accurate the film was.
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junky is not if the movie is an actual representation of what happened there, but if it is mostly true or enhanced. saving pvt ryan is an actual representation of what happened in ww2 but it isnt true.
semp
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junky is not if the movie is an actual representation of what happened there, but if it is mostly true or enhanced. saving pvt ryan is an actual representation of what happened in ww2 but it isnt true.
semp
Everyone is aware it's not completely accurate....That's why it says "Based off a True Story" key word BASED, it's not verbatim.
They can be used as historical representation of historical events, this war didn't have "Battles" because it was a COIN fight(Battles have detailed after action reports, many of these are still considered sensitive information).....the only area I am aware of that units have a battle streamer for it is Operation Anaconda which was in 2001.
It isn't completely true but if someone is wondering what it was like, this is a pretty damn good representation.......many vets have already been on TV saying this.
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The movie was "OK". Some actual events were not true or enhanced for Hollywood, "at least according to Kyles own words in his book".
Im not sure how the special forces community feels about the Self-aggrandizement , the money making, or the coming out in whats supposed to be a secret community. Thats for them to judge. Not me, not you. These guys, all branches, go thru hell for what? a 1% raise this year? So what right would we have to say anything?
I guess the entire ego and money thing with this Ventura guy left a bad taste in my mouth. That and I remember another war we did the body count thing, its a bad way to go about business. But where the book, the movie, and Eastwood gets it right is the incredible suffering our troops go thru in these foreign war's, especially in that part of the world where Ive personally experienced the unrelenting hate. I suspect that was Kyles main purpose, and why he died the way he did. Helping other Vet's cope.
That should be his legacy. Not the body count.
apparently we all get a 5% raise then a 8 % deductions :furious
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I saw it. I'll take it over the garbage I usually get to choose from. As a kid that grew up hunting, fishing and being taught that America, even will all her flaws, is a great country, it's refreshing to see a movie about normal (in my world) people.
Just like America, Kyle had plenty of flaws and so does the movie. But, I don't want to live anywhere else, I would want someone like Kyle on the rifle as I cleared houses and the movie is the best I've seen in a while.
I didn't look at it as a war movie. I see it as a movie about man.
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I saw it. I'll take it over the garbage I usually get to choose from. As a kid that grew up hunting, fishing and being taught that America, even will all her flaws, is a great country, it's refreshing to see a movie about normal (in my world) people.
Just like America, Kyle had plenty of flaws and so does the movie. But, I don't want to live anywhere else, I would want someone like Kyle on the rifle as I cleared houses and the movie is the best I've seen in a while.
I didn't look at it as a war movie. I see it as a movie about man.
Concur.. I even went off on a rant on FB at people attacking it and I don't rant anymore.
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Can we dump Michael Moore off in a war zone for a few hours; bet he retracts...
What a slob.
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Can we dump Michael Moore off in a war zone for a few hours; bet he retracts...
What a slob.
Nah, he'd join up with his compatriots and get along just fine. They could sit down together and plot against what used to be core American values.
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Can we dump Michael Moore off in a war zone for a few hours; bet he retracts...
What a slob.
He is so obese, it wouldn't even be a challenge to hit him with an ak47 from 500 yards. :rofl
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Just saw the movie, finally. I agree with a statement I read earlier. It's not a war movie, it's a movie about a warrior. Eastwood did a good job on this one.
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A few screen shots from American Sniper. I have a screener's DVD of the film.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9767/4y4ha77ox0kawhizg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/675d/11ljvr91rf0vvwczg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/d032/zdfxlc7erlxx82ozg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/d57f/ukaf6hn35hrv6cvzg.jpg)
These next ones are from the final minutes of the movie. They show some shots of the many thousands of people who lined Rt 35, standing in the rain for hours to pay homage to Kyle as his funeral procession drove by. This procession is reported as the longest ever seen in Texas, stretching 200 miles in length. I was thinking that when Michael Moore finally has that overdue heart attack, his funeral procession will probably not stack up to Kyle's. It will, however, surely be long enough to wind all the way around a McDonalds....
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/5fc9/s8tefejmdwbgnwzzg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/04f1/4xb3mz6t95x8z7tzg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/94d6/hhvchkgrr43w921zg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7774/xcwa1p27wk99chmzg.jpg)
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7262/udv23m8vc2wy777zg.jpg)
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roadkill, the court case revealed that only 2% of the profits went to charity. The rest went into Kyle's and his family's pocket.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2 (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2)
And it seems he lied about a few other things
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/)
It paints the picture of a man who was a sociopath and a liar.
Lots of bulls**t in this post...
Your conclusion is based upon lousy reporting.
1st, the vast majority of the book royalties remains in an interest bearing account. Kyle's second book has earned close to $400,000 in royalties, and that money is used as income for his wife and kids. You stated that, "The rest went into Kyle's and his family's pocket". No one has made that claim, you just invented it.
Taya Kyle has set up a 501c3 non-profit, the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation assists military couples and families.
2nd, McCoy's article is loaded with inaccuracies. Brandon Webb has stated that Kyle told him that he had also heard that snipers were deployed to New Orleans and had shot at least 30 armed bad guys. Webb stated that Kyle "was clearly bothered by this". Webb is surely reliable. Nowhere did Kyle claim to be involved. Any claims to the otherwise are untrue.
As to the story of shooting two carjackers.... Who knows? No one can prove or disprove the story of several 2nd Ranger Battalion Rangers clearing out drug dealers adjacent to military housing. However, many years later, people still claim that several drug dealers disappeared after threatening retribution on the families of Rangers. My cousin's husband is a retired Lt. Col. formerly commanding a Ranger Regiment, he didn't offer any details, but admitted to having heard the story as well.
As to McCoy's assertion that Kyle's confirmed kill total is in question... Hardly. The Navy credits Kyle with 162 confirmed kills. Hathcock had 93 confirmed, and over 300 claimed.
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The Navy credits Kyle with 162 confirmed kills. Hathcock had 93 confirmed, and over 300 claimed.
To be fair to Hathcock, he was operating under MUCH stricter verification criteria in Vietnam than was faced by Kyle (as I recall, confirmation required third-party verification from someone of officer rank, and who was NOT his spotter), and the conditions on the battlefield in Vietnam often made it impossible.
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Lots of bulls**t in this post...
Your conclusion is based upon lousy reporting.
1st, the vast majority of the book royalties remains in an interest bearing account. Kyle's second book has earned close to $400,000 in royalties, and that money is used as income for his wife and kids. You stated that, "The rest went into Kyle's and his family's pocket". No one has made that claim, you just invented it.
Taya Kyle has set up a 501c3 non-profit, the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation assists military couples and families.
2nd, McCoy's article is loaded with inaccuracies. Brandon Webb has stated that Kyle told him that he had also heard that snipers were deployed to New Orleans and had shot at least 30 armed bad guys. Webb stated that Kyle "was clearly bothered by this". Webb is surely reliable. Nowhere did Kyle claim to be involved. Any claims to the otherwise are untrue.
As to the story of shooting two carjackers.... Who knows? No one can prove or disprove the story of several 2nd Ranger Battalion Rangers clearing out drug dealers adjacent to military housing. However, many years later, people still claim that several drug dealers disappeared after threatening retribution on the families of Rangers. My cousin's husband is a retired Lt. Col. formerly commanding a Ranger Regiment, he didn't offer any details, but admitted to having heard the story as well.
As to McCoy's assertion that Kyle's confirmed kill total is in question... Hardly. The Navy credits Kyle with 162 confirmed kills. Hathcock had 93 confirmed, and over 300 claimed.
One of the best examples of cognitive dissonance that I've seen in a long time. Keep it up, I'll put some popcorn on and settle in for another round.
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One of the best examples of cognitive dissonance that I've seen in a long time. Keep it up, I'll put some popcorn on and settle in for another round.
Perhaps you could use facts to support your position?
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And make sure it is an original text written by you. If you copy paste somthing the information will be dismissed out of hand and you'll be publicly humiliated!
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Or you can include a bibliography, that will cover it.
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Perhaps you could use facts to support your position?
He can't. Why? Because he has nothing to contribute. No facts. His poorly considered comment is based upon the thought process that dispelling falsehoods falls under that definition. Thus, anyone calling BS is exercising cognitive dissonance.
Claim: Kyle pocketed all book royalties from American Sniper.
Truth: Most of the royalties are in an account, earning interest, according to the lawyers. Moreover, almost half of the royalties from his story have been earned after his death. Kyle's estate is receiving royalties from Kyle's other book and the film.
Claim: Kyle said he shot 30 civilians from the Superdome roof.
Truth: Kyle said no such thing. He said he had heard the story of SEALS being involved and was bothered by it. Taya Kyle can prove Kyle was not in New Orleans at the time. So can the Navy.
Claim: Kyle's confirmed kill total is in question.
Truth: It is not. The Navy credits him with 162.
Claim: Kyle lied that he punched Jesse Ventura in the face.
Truth: Still in litigation. Very well could be a tall tale. Defendant is dead and cannot testify in court. Ventura doesn't deny being present. Initially didn't deny (claiming he had no comment, when asked) stating what supposedly led to Kyle claiming to have punched him for, although he now claims he never said it. I like Kyle, but he's no angel. If he lied and did so for profit, and it can be established as such (with real proof, not gross error by the original defense lawyers), then there's a penalty to pay. Justice for all... Yet, it's amazing that people will ignore massive lies by leading politicians, but despise Kyle. It's obvious that some people despise Kyle for reasons other than the Ventura issue.
It seems to me that SysError believes that attempting to correct falsehoods about Kyle falls under the theory of cognitive dissonance... That thinking qualifies as cognitive dissonance on its own...
Another Truth: Ventura's career is a confirmed kill.
While previously tolerated by the SEAL community, he is now a pariah. Disowned. Ventura claims this is Kyle's fault. In reality, it was just the last straw of many. Ventura makes the following claim: "I was told by a SEAL that if I showed up at any SEAL event, even at a bar frequented by SEALs, I would be asked to leave". According to Marcus Luttrell, Ventura was told something a bit less gracious, such that "if he walks in, he will be asked to walk out. If he doesn't walk out, he will be carried out."
Ventura is no stranger to lawsuits. This appears to be how he's earned much of his income at times. He's now suing Kyle's publisher, which clearly indicates that restoring his dubious reputation was really an excuse to grab for the $$$$. In Ventura's defense, he dug himself a hole. His lawyers will get a significant percentage of the award. He doesn't want to pay them out of his pocket, and cannot be expected to. Thus, he cannot refuse the award. Now, seeing a potential payday on his horizon, he's doubled down and sued the publisher. This one he's unlikely to win, but there's no financial risk for him.
For the appeal of original decision, the Kyle estate has far better legal representation, and rumor is that they won't have to pay a dime for it. High power law firms were itching for the opportunity, as publicity on that level can't be bought at any price.
The issue is for many, and will continue to be, is Ventura someone they could believe? I'd argue no. I'd argue that he's obviously paranoid, and at least one McNugget short of a Happy Meal. Yet, even screwballs can find some truth within their insanity. He's moved to Mexico, and keeps moving around "so the drones can't find him"....
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jesse-ventura-freaks-out-cnbc-im-off-the-grid-so-drones-cant-find-me/ (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jesse-ventura-freaks-out-cnbc-im-off-the-grid-so-drones-cant-find-me/)
I suppose his paranoia breeds fear, as he's managed to become hated by the one of the most technologically advanced and lethal spec ops organizations on earth.... ;)
Of course, he has nothing to worry about. They'll just wait for the inevitable outcome of more than a decade of steroid abuse to take its course, and be content to pay their respects at that later time, likely via a common biological function.
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So this bloke shot scum?
If he did well done :old:
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widewing, while I dont really know if kyle's wife has the money in a checking account earning interest or not I dont really care. the truth is that even a paralegal knows how to set up a non-profit and give all the money away tax free. heck I am not a paralegal and even I can do a 1/2 donut google search and find out how to set up a non profit. imagine her with all the attorneys she has, can do.
I dont buy the "due to tax laws" excuse. Whether she keeps it or not it's really her money and she can do what she wants with it as she pleases. If she wants to keep it to raise her family then I am all for it. if she wants to give it to charity then it's awesome of her.
but it's the excuse given that I dont buy.
semp
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widewing, while I dont really know if kyle's wife has the money in a checking account earning interest or not I dont really care. the truth is that even a paralegal knows how to set up a non-profit and give all the money away tax free. heck I am not a paralegal and even I can do a 1/2 donut google search and find out how to set up a non profit. imagine her with all the attorneys she has, can do.
I dont buy the "due to tax laws" excuse. Whether she keeps it or not it's really her money and she can do what she wants with it as she pleases. If she wants to keep it to raise her family then I am all for it. if she wants to give it to charity then it's awesome of her.
but it's the excuse given that I dont buy.
semp
I agree with you. Anyone can set up a non-profit with minimal effort. After her husband was dead, she finally did. However, I'm sure she did so in response to exactly what you are saying. If you are claiming that all profits are going to a charity, then you should make the effort to set up 501c3. If you delay, folks will begin to question you, and they did just that.
The Chris Kyle Frog Foundation financial records are open to public, so anyone who wants can see how much has been spent. That doesn't tell us much. I'm sure a large amount is on hold pending the outcome of the appeal.
I think that Taya Kyle depends on others to manage her funds. Obviously, she had a lot to cope with when her husband was murdered. Like you, I don't have a problem should she decide to keep a significant amount of the royalties. She lost her source of future income, and she must think about her kids and home first.
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http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/news/national/briton-is-world-s-deadliest-sniper-1-7083571
says it all
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http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/news/national/briton-is-world-s-deadliest-sniper-1-7083571
says it all
Quotes The Sun.
Yes, says it all.
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Just saw it yesterday, very compelling.
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http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/news/national/briton-is-world-s-deadliest-sniper-1-7083571
says it all
It doesn't say much, and they can't get simple facts right.
"The Sun said the Briton, who has not been named, had served in the Royal Navy's elite unit for more than a decade and recorded most of his 173 confirmed kills during tours of Afghanistan in 2006/7, having also served in Iraq."
He doesn't have a name and served in an unnamed elite Navy unit
So, this guy got 173 in two short tours? Nonsense, unless he was shooting civilians.
Some things they got wrong... Kyle is credited with 162 confirmed of 255 claimed, not 160. Many could not be confirmed, but were just as dead.
The article claimed that the film was nominated for 2 Oscars.... It has been nominated for 6 Oscars....
Oh yeah, they offered rock solid evidence..... LOLOLOL
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I hope Taya keeps every dime. And she owes nobody any explanation why, she has a fatherless child to raise. One that had so far been raised on a military paycheck.
Its not Taya's responsibility to get help for these stricken Vets. Its ours!
Ive tried to be generous with friends, now ex-friends, with money when they needed help. In the end they all screw you. "Money" and the pursuit of it does something to poison the soul and almost always makes a person strip themselves of all honor and self respect. http://www.westernjournalism.com/scumbag-ex-navy-seal-rips-off-11-fellow-navy-seals-fund-luxurious-lifestyle/#u8LpgZqAIqhR0p51.97 Even among elite warriors.
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This really has been more entertaining than I originally thought it could be. I'm not going correct your errors, ("Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" Napoleon), but I do have a few thoughts which, against my better judgment, I shall offer in a sprint of a revered friendship to a fellow Aces Higher. (And for the record I do not consider you an “enemy”. I decide to provide you with an accurate quote so as to not make you the victim of “lousy reporting”. Let me suggest the word adversary or sparring partner.)
... Thus, anyone calling BS is exercising cognitive dissonance.
I would suggest you look this term up. It is a real term used by Psychologists, although I think that currently a more sharply defined and accepted term is motivated reasoning. Either way, I think that for the general public the terms are interchangeable.
One (and by no means the only) interesting idea/observation that has come up in the field of Psychology in the past several years is the fact that a certain clearly defined sub-set of subjects, when confronted with facts that challenge(s) the validity of emotional held belief(s), dig in further and deeper into their original belief. It would be like if you believed that the moon landings were actually taped on a set in LA and that with every piece of information that proved the opposite - you become more and more convinced that a studio set actually was used.
BTW: We are not talking about a handful guys with aluminum hats. We are talking about a large population set.
Your posts are a good example of someone who behaves that way. The recipe (or the main one anyway) is very simple:
Trash the authority (source) of the argument.
Trash the logic of the argument (optional)
Claim yourself or others as real experts and judger of facts.
If you would like to understand what you are doing you will have to read a book or two.
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts BY Carol Tavris and, Elliot Aronson
and
The case for motivated reasoning. by Kunda, Ziva available at the web site of the American Psychological Association at:
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/108/3/480/
My hope is that someday that the fruit of all this clinical and academic research is reduced to a handful of bumper sticks. That way animated individuals who conduct most of their social research while driving to work on the interstate will become better informed members of society. (It will save them from having to read a book!)
But I digress.
I originally was just going to let your post go, but then I thought about the 501c3 stuff. I have helped non-profits file 990 before, so I kind of know how to read them and I thought lets go read it. It is not there. OK, looks as if the foundation was just set up, they have time. Then I thought wait, where did all this stuff about money being tucked away for tax purposes come from and why a 501c3? There are a number of different types of non-profits and many of them are easier to set up and run (from an IRS reporting perceptive). And she did it as a foundation (private I assume). Ah.
Well boys and girls gather round for just a few basic facts about 501c3 and private foundations. The main (and some would say the ONLY) reason to set up a 501c3 is to provide the donor of a gift, usually of cash and certain goods and services, a means getting a tax break, subject to certain limitations having to do with the circumstances of the donor. (Depending on how they are classified, the non-profit may not have to pay any or most federal and usually state taxes.) Private foundations have a little twist; funding is usually from one source and under IRS rules the foundation must give away a minimum percentage (5% I think) of its assets ever year.
So with that as background:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2
“And now for the kicker: It isn’t true. Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!) While Kyle’s widow claimed, in her testimony, that they never intended to profit from the book, and “wanted” to donate the money to other veterans, she said they were weren’t able to because of — get this! — “gift-tax laws that prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year.”
The National Review, for those of you who do not know, is a conservative right wing magazine started by William Buckley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley%2C_Jr. I, and others, believe that no other publication did more to define modern day conservatism in America than the National Review. (While many disagreed with Buckley and his view points, no one that I know of ever accused Buckley of lying. Not lying, now there is a conservative and liberal idea that we all should support and promote!)
So…
During the Jesse Ventura trail, Taya Kyle under oath, stated that she had been instructed by her lawyers she was “prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year”
It is my understanding that she gave her testimony while producing a voluminous amount of tears.
Not true. Tax laws for a foundation require that a MINIMUM of 5% the foundation’s assets have to be donated every year. Foundations can give as much as they have. However, foundations can count Administrative costs as part of the 5%. So, not too infrequently you find a private foundation stacked with family members with titles such as Vice-President of Knowledge and a salary and expense account to match. (BTW: The IRS deals with this issue all the time and they have guidelines for what are reasonable administrative costs. Given the fact that there was more than one gift (two!), at an exact amount ($26k), you got to wonder what is going on there.)
BTW: as concerned as you are about the family, if you set up a foundation because all you want to do is to avoid paying taxes, then there is a good chance that you will be fined by the IRS and a small chance that you will end up in jail.
Non-Profits have to be set up and run to support a public good mission.
Maybe you could let Kyle’s widow know that she was in error that she can indeed meet her promise of giving 100% of the proceeds to families of fallen servicemen.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/07/09/chris-kyle-video-deposition-to-be-played-in-american-sniper-trial/
I’ve often believed that if you want to understand America you can read the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gaithersburg Address and all of the Constitutional Amendments, and you will not really get it until you dig into the US Tax Code, Regulations and Official Guidance. http://www.irs.gov/Tax-Professionals/Tax-Code,-Regulations-and-Official-Guidance.
Of course there are a couple of other issues out there and open for debate. But the one fact that we now know is that Kyle is a liar. A court of law says so.
I understand why this would brother some people immensely. If he lied about a stupid bar fight, what else did he lie about? Were all of his 200+ kills (162 confirmed), to use his words “damn savages”. Were there innocents that he killed? I do not know, but we have the word of a liar and … ah…well just the word of a liar.
On another issue, Americans across the country are reporting a significant occurrence of acts of intimidation and suggested acts of violence on their persons by patrons of the movie. I hope that we can all agree that such behavior is despicable and should not be tolerated by anyone.
Another issue that really makes me sick in the gut is the host of so called Veteran Charities that prey “on the public's patriotism and generosity, promising assistance to veterans while lining their own pockets”. According to Charity Watch Some of the worst are:
AMVETS
Military Order of the Purple Heart Service Foundation
Paralyzed Veterans of America
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S
Charity Watch, http://www.charitywatch.org/, tries to stay on top of the issue and publishes a guide for donors. http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/donors_guide_to_serving_veterans.html
I found this from a few years ago. Not much has changed. Only more of these scam tax dodging profiteers have emerged. I guess that not too many of them went to Jail….
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/veterans-charity-fraud_n_886259.html
Very very sad.
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He doesn't have a name and served in an unnamed elite Navy unit
Psst, Royal Marine Commandos. Says it in the title.
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I find this argument over kills tedious. The movie is not about the kills. And even if it was, this brit could have a million kills and still wouldn't be the most lethal sniper in American history, which is the only claim the movie makes.
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Blah, blah, blah,
insert arrogant pretentious drivel here
Very very sad.
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you bore me
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I find this argument over kills tedious. The movie is not about the kills. And even if it was, this brit could have a million kills and still wouldn't be the most lethal sniper in American history, which is the only claim the movie makes.
Bingo! its so funny to !!! nobody said "in world history"
:rofl
So the jist is SysError wants everyone to know that Tara Kyle is a crook,
Swoop wants everyone to know the Brits are better than any damn Yank
and Guncrasher wants us all to know how easy it is to become a criminal, I assume to alleviate any blame of Tara Kyle?
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you bore me
Likewise.
If you want to make a cogent point try taking a look how Brooke and a few others present their positions. They are well thought out and logical. The only real point you make is the lack of maturity that you posses and the mistaken belief that you can overwhelm the "sparring partner" with the seething condescending tone that permeates your drivel.
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and you will not really get it until you dig into the US Tax Code, Regulations and Official Guidance.
Just that? Bah -- that's for wimps. To really get it, you need to read the entire US Code.
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... So the jist is SysError wants everyone to know that Tara Kyle is a crook, ...
No, I did not say that. I think that there are significant troubling indicators in the foundations behavior. We should wait and see what the 990 says.
The reason I responded to your post was the issue of scam charity veteran organizations. A good friend of mine, a Vietnam Vet who died about a year ago, was scammed by one. My friend needed real help. He went into army reluctantly, but as he said, as a Patriot. He came out as one big F***ed up pile of s**t. You would be talking to him and out of nowhere he would break down into tears. “Child killer that’s me, men, women and children, all the same to me”. He would tell stories of being the gunner on a Bell chopper and spraying villages and roads. He was usually drunk and often stoned during these “missions”.
The army kicked him out when he was spent. The VA just abused him. He spent years trying to get help for his drug problems and counseling for what we would now call PTSD.
With no real help from the VA (the same politicians who funded the war refused to pay for the treatment that was needed for vets – Does that sound familiar?), he turned to a private veterans charity. Short version of the story is that he ended up owing them money – which he really did not have.
I had completely forgotten about this story until after he died. I was drinking an IPA in his honor when just out of nowhere I remembered it.
I do not have much tolerance for people who engage in tax fraud in the name Veterans
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Likewise.
If you want to make a cogent point try taking a look how Brooke and a few others present their positions. They are well thought out and logical. The only real point you make is the lack of maturity that you posses and the mistaken belief that you can overwhelm the "sparring partner" with the seething condescending tone that permeates your drivel.
Rabbidrabbit I will apologize for my comment. It was uncalled for.
I do not agree with some of your points, but lets just leave it at that.
:salute
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Bingo! its so funny to !!! nobody said "in world history"
:rofl
So the jist is SysError wants everyone to know that Tara Kyle is a crook,
Swoop wants everyone to know the Brits are better than any damn Yank
and Guncrasher wants us all to know how easy it is to become a criminal, I assume to alleviate any blame of Tara Kyle?
when did I say that?
semp
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I appreciate you stepping up.
The truth is no one is perfect including you, me or Chris Kyle. There is a lot of questionable facts floating around and some choose to interpret things as they choose. My take is as follows.
I don't care if Taya Kyle chooses not to donate some or all of the money raised to charitable needs. The sudden death of her husband clearly changed her reality and she needs to take care of her children after the spotlight fades away. She owes them and her deceased husband that.
I don't care if Chris Kyle punched Jesse Ventura or not. Continuing to pursue his wife and children after his death clearly indicates some of the many reasons that no one can defame Jesse Ventura better than Jesse Ventura. Assuming Jesse was right, a classy move would have been to pay his lawyers and return all but one dollar to Kyles widow with his condolences.
The only first hand account of what happened after Katrina is that Brandon Webb said Kyle told him he knew of some who shot in the neighborhood of 30 looters. According to Webb, Kyle never said he did so.
Kyle's official kill record is what it is and there is no reason to question it.
Also not in question is Kyle's military service which was exemplary. Nor can one question his dedication to fellow members of the military which he ultimately died for.
I just don't really care to piss on the graves of the dead for the sake of drama. No one is perfect but taking the sum of what is known of Chris Kyle, I would rather be tilting a beer with him than many other people I have met in my life. That's just me.
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No, I did not say that. I think that there are significant troubling indicators in the foundations behavior. We should wait and see what the 990 says.
The reason I responded to your post was the issue of scam charity veteran organizations. A good friend of mine, a Vietnam Vet who died about a year ago, was scammed by one. My friend needed real help. He went into army reluctantly, but as he said, as a Patriot. He came out as one big F***ed up pile of s**t. You would be talking to him and out of nowhere he would break down into tears. “Child killer that’s me, men, women and children, all the same to me”. He would tell stories of being the gunner on a Bell chopper and spraying villages and roads. He was usually drunk and often stoned during these “missions”.
The army kicked him out when he was spent. The VA just abused him. He spent years trying to get help for his drug problems and counseling for what we would now call PTSD.
With no real help from the VA (the same politicians who funded the war refused to pay for the treatment that was needed for vets – Does that sound familiar?), he turned to a private veterans charity. Short version of the story is that he ended up owing them money – which he really did not have.
I had completely forgotten about this story until after he died. I was drinking an IPA in his honor when just out of nowhere I remembered it.
I do not have much tolerance for people who engage in tax fraud in the name Veterans
I'm really sorry for your friend, some just don't get what they need!
I am also a disabled, ptsd ridden, Army Veteran who volunteers my time to the VA at least once a week, just as Chris Kyle did,
I don't compare someone I don't know who does the same things I do for our veterans as a criminal,,
if they only give $13000 one time, they will still have given more to veterans than most every other person in this conversation!
so be whatever it is your trying to be some other way!
his service to his country is what the movie is about, I'm a veteran an I respect him!
Chris Kyle is a hero's hero to many many military men, cut down for no good reason, while trying to help veterans
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when did I say that?
semp
don't feel bad, it might have been a stretch!
while I dont really know if kyle's wife has the money in a checking account earning interest or not I dont really care.
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It doesn't say much, and they can't get simple facts right.
"The Sun said the Briton, who has not been named, had served in the Royal Navy's elite unit for more than a decade and recorded most of his 173 confirmed kills during tours of Afghanistan in 2006/7, having also served in Iraq."
He doesn't have a name and served in an unnamed elite Navy unit
So, this guy got 173 in two short tours? Nonsense, unless he was shooting civilians.
Some things they got wrong... Kyle is credited with 162 confirmed of 255 claimed, not 160. Many could not be confirmed, but were just as dead.
The article claimed that the film was nominated for 2 Oscars.... It has been nominated for 6 Oscars....
Oh yeah, they offered rock solid evidence..... LOLOLOL
sas sor sbs which this dude is in are special ops totally deniable...... chris kyle is modern day propoganda
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I'm really sorry for your friend, some just don't get what they need!
I am also a disabled, ptsd ridden, Army Veteran who volunteers my time to the VA at least once a week, just as Chris Kyle did,
I don't compare someone I don't know who does the same things I do for our veterans as a criminal,,
if they only give $13000 one time, they will still have given more to veterans than most every other person in this conversation!
so be whatever it is your trying to be some other way!
his service to his country is what the movie is about, I'm a veteran an I respect him!
Chris Kyle is a hero's hero to many many military men, cut down for no good reason, while trying to help veterans
WWhiskey
Thank you for your service.
:salute
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During the Jesse Ventura trail, Taya Kyle under oath, stated that she had been instructed by her lawyers she was “prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year”
It is my understanding that she gave her testimony while producing a voluminous amount of tears.
I'm having some difficulty trying to grasp your point...but are you trying to say that the federal gift tax annual exclusion (per donee) does not apply to 501(c)(3) organizations?
Really?
- oldman
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Very well said rabbidrabbit. :salute
:cheers:
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I'm having some difficulty trying to grasp your point...but are you trying to say that the federal gift tax annual exclusion (per donee) does not apply to 501(c)(3) organizations?
Really?
- oldman
If I understand your comment/question correctly, the US federal gift tax annual exclusion applies to gifts to (usually) family members (usually) as part of an estate planning/financial planning process.
A private foundation has a requirement to donate a minimum percentage of its assets, not, as was reported, what she claimed which was that she was subject to a federal maximum limit. A foundation can choice to liquidate itself and donate all of its assets in one day. It does not happen very often.
(BTW: I did think that the amount two gifts of $13,000 was a bit odd and I thought well maybe she is donating it to her own family members and is applying the annual exclusion rule. Well I looked it up and in 2014 it was $14,000. So it does not fit, and besides I am sure that the families who got her gifts would want to publicly thank her. But still, two gifts of $13,000 is odd).
My point, and what really brothered me about this whole thing is that when we (society) through our government decide to exclude from taxation certain people, organizations and companies, we are saying that that entity is providing a good/service that we value - take your pick; feeding the homeless, setting up a park, providing religious services, creating jobs.... In fact we say we value it so much that you do not have to pay for your share of the cost to fix roads, light the streets, run a police force, maintain an army, pay for the cost of care for wounded veterans.
So when someone says that they are going to give 100% of collected donations to families of fallen warriors, and it appears that that is not what they did, and they provide an answer that at least on first pass does not make any sense, I think we should pay attention. Their 990 will provide a lot more insight.
Please, if you are going to give to charities that serve veterans, please go to an organization like charity watch to find out which organizations do a good job of meeting veteran needs.
http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/donors_guide_to_serving_veterans.html
I would be interested in knowing if others rely on different sources to vet (pun? Ha ha) charities.
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Swoop wants everyone to know the Brits are better than any damn Yank
Don't you dare bring me into this argument, if you re-read the thread you'll find all I've said in the whole thing is a one line note to widewing to point out the article he's disparaging does indeed state the military unit of the unnamed sniper. At no time have I said a damn thing about about us Brits being better. The whole argument of kills is pointless anyway since, as any military trained shooter will tell you, you don't count kills, you don't enjoy the job, you just do the job.
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:neener: Yea get it right it's me that thinks, nay knows The British are best at everything warlike
Leave swoop out of it
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Don't you dare bring me into this argument, if you re-read the thread you'll find all I've said in the whole thing is a one line note to widewing to point out the article he's disparaging does indeed state the military unit of the unnamed sniper. At no time have I said a damn thing about about us Brits being better. The whole argument of kills is pointless anyway since, as any military trained shooter will tell you, you don't count kills, you don't enjoy the job, you just do the job.
I think it's both naive and unfair to expect a soldier not to enjoy his job.
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Pr3d4tor hits the nail on the head,,
A soldier with a gift gets to use his gift to serve his fellow soldiers,, win win!
Unless your the bad guy, then Not so much!
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Bollocks.
Anyone who's ever had a man in his sights will tell you, its not about the kills, its about the lives you save. And if you've never had a man in your sights you don't get an opinion.
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Been there done that. So has a lot of people on this bbs. The killing isn't the enjoyable part for most guys, but even if it was I think it would be naive, unfair and downright hypocritical to expect that they shouldn't enjoy it as long as your freedom and way of life is dependent on them doing "the job". What a terrible thing to say that a man shouldn't enjoy the work that's required of him.
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If I understand your comment/question correctly, the US federal gift tax annual exclusion applies to gifts to (usually) family members (usually) as part of an estate planning/financial planning process.
* * *
(BTW: I did think that the amount two gifts of $13,000 was a bit odd and I thought well maybe she is donating it to her own family members and is applying the annual exclusion rule. Well I looked it up and in 2014 it was $14,000. So it does not fit, and besides I am sure that the families who got her gifts would want to publicly thank her. But still, two gifts of $13,000 is odd).
The annual exclusion applies to any individual to whom a gift is made, not just to family members. During 2009-2012 the exclusion was $13,000 per donee.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Frequently-Asked-Questions-on-Gift-Taxes
Seems to me that what the woman said was exactly correct at the time she said it.
- oldman
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I think it's both naive and unfair to expect a soldier not to enjoy his job.
Some soldiers will always volunteer to join firing squad while other will never enjoy it.
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The killing is just a small part of combat, and combat is just a small part of what soldiering is as an occupation. Similarly, killing is only a small part of hunting game. Combat is a lot of things, but "exciting" is definitively a part of it. Or as Winston Churchill put it: "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
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The annual exclusion applies to any individual to whom a gift is made, not just to family members. During 2009-2012 the exclusion was $13,000 per donee.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Frequently-Asked-Questions-on-Gift-Taxes
Seems to me that what the woman said was exactly correct at the time she said it.
- oldman
I do not think that I (we?) disagree on your first point. I used the word usually, granted in parenthesis, maybe I should have left them off (I do not know). It is just a little unusual to see large out right gifts to people unrelated to you. When you hear of foundations giving large gifts it is usually to charities to build a recreation area for the community, or something large and worthy. And I did not know that the gifts were made in 2013 and not 2014.
Gifts over the annual exclusion are subject to taxation. I agree. However, as I am sure you know, it is the donor (most of the time, unless the donee agrees to assume it) that pays the tax at their effective federal tax rate. So as a 501c3 with a federal tax rate of zero (and yes, there are some circumstances were the rate is not quite zero) any donation amount over the annual exclusion limit would be subject to tax, again at the organization's effective tax rate.
And I'll admit that I may be wrong (but I do not think so) about what tax rate one actually might get taxed at. As I remember it (having dealt with the issue), it is the donor's effective tax rate.
And here on reflection, I will go along with a larger point that I think you might legitimately make, who the hell wants to risk it. IRS agents are probably not too used to dealing with the issue on this scale and an organization might find itself having to hiring a bunch of very specialized tax lawyers and a CPA or two.
OK perhaps someone said $13K is a safe number.
But let me ask you;
Do you know why she didn't make more than just two gifts of $13k?
Is there a limit on how much a foundation can donate?
Were there just two families that qualified under the foundation's donation criteria?
Someone said that the foundation's records were public, I'm not sure where to find them. (Did I remember that correctly? Who said the records were public? can you post a link or provide some advice? Thanks!)
Most (many?) of the comments in this thread/post have been full of admiration for Chris Kyle. I understand that. I would agree with almost all of the measured but enthusiastic statements of admiration expressed here. But there is also some Hero Worship going on here that is at the expense others and, from time to time, the facts. I know that people are not going to agree, and I do not have a problem with myth hero creation (I really don't, the ancient Greeks proved how important Heroes and Myths are to society), but most of the guys here know how to sale soap, they do not have a clue on how to create a myth.
What is happening is that we are becoming polarized over what we all should and do agree on. Vets that need help deserve to be fully helped.
For me, and I would hope (perhaps foolishly) for others, I see enough odd things about the foundation for me to not to be curios and ask questions.
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Your first kill changes you forever. There is no taking it back. You are a different person now. My first few kills scared the watermelon outta me. After that, I derived neither pleasure, nor pain from killing. I stayed neutral (numb?). It's how you keep your sanity when you are in units that see much more intense combat than the average unit. The last couple years I've had some pretty serious mental health issues that came outta nowhere, but hit me like a ton of bricks and won for quite a long period of time. I have to take a med 3 time every day, or I "wig out" really bad with anxiety attacks from hell. It's weird, I had no problem for years except for a much shorter temper, then *bam*, something that you only see on TV and never think will happen to you does.
Killing is not fun. I have more "kills" than I'd like to discuss tonight (catch me on a good night), some of them hand-to-hand, him-or-me, and I can tell you not one kill was ever fun for me, although I regret none and would do every single one all over again. I refuse to hunt animals though. I've never been once in my life, and never plan to. Funny, huh...
:salute
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Your first kill changes you forever. There is no taking it back. You are a different person now. My first few kills scared the watermelon outta me. After that, I derived neither pleasure, nor pain from killing. I stayed neutral (numb?). It's how you keep your sanity when you are in units that see much more intense combat than the average unit. The last couple years I've had some pretty serious mental health issues that came outta nowhere, but hit me like a ton of bricks and won for quite a long period of time. I have to take a med 3 time every day, or I "wig out" really bad with anxiety attacks from hell. It's weird, I had no problem for years except for a much shorter temper, then *bam*, something that you only see on TV and never think will happen to you does.
Killing is not fun. I have more "kills" than I'd like to discuss tonight (catch me on a good night), some of them hand-to-hand, him-or-me, and I can tell you not one kill was ever fun for me, although I regret none and would do every single one all over again. I refuse to hunt animals though. I've never been once in my life, and never plan to. Funny, huh...
Well, Ranger, I guess we'll stop talking about taxes now. Thanks so very much for what you've done on our behalf, and please accept our shared grief for the effect it's had on you and your family. I'm sure that only a very few people here can really understand your experience, and certainly I'm not one of them. Be sure to post here, either generally, or to one or the other of us, when things get rough, if you think that might help.
- oldman
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Your first kill changes you forever. There is no taking it back. You are a different person now. My first few kills scared the watermelon outta me. After that, I derived neither pleasure, nor pain from killing. I stayed neutral (numb?). It's how you keep your sanity when you are in units that see much more intense combat than the average unit. The last couple years I've had some pretty serious mental health issues that came outta nowhere, but hit me like a ton of bricks and won for quite a long period of time. I have to take a med 3 time every day, or I "wig out" really bad with anxiety attacks from hell. It's weird, I had no problem for years except for a much shorter temper, then *bam*, something that you only see on TV and never think will happen to you does.
Killing is not fun. I have more "kills" than I'd like to discuss tonight (catch me on a good night), some of them hand-to-hand, him-or-me, and I can tell you not one kill was ever fun for me, although I regret none and would do every single one all over again. I refuse to hunt animals though. I've never been once in my life, and never plan to. Funny, huh...
:salute
:salute
I've been an avid hunter since I was a kid. I guess it has conditioned me to killing living creatures with relative ease. Shooting people wasn't all that different. I've felt more pity for some of the animals I've killed than some of the scumbags I fought. Them shooting back at me was the terrifying part and has made me wary of crowds and sudden noises, even more than 20 years after the fact. That said I've never killed anyone up close and personal. Mostly from behind a .50 cal.
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<S> to USRanger and other vets.
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This really has been more entertaining than I originally thought it could be. I'm not going correct your errors, ("Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" Napoleon), but I do have a few thoughts which, against my better judgment, I shall offer in a sprint of a revered friendship to a fellow Aces Higher. (And for the record I do not consider you an “enemy”. I decide to provide you with an accurate quote so as to not make you the victim of “lousy reporting”. Let me suggest the word adversary or sparring partner.)
Errors? I have merely stated facts. I realize that facts can be inconvenient relative to one's rant, but truth is truth. Moreover, you haven't actually addressed a single point I made, except to rave on about Psychology and Tax shelters and diversions from the issues I listed.
(snipped arrogant Psychobabble self-justification and reading list of terminally unbearable)
I originally was just going to let your post go, but then I thought about the 501c3 stuff. I have helped non-profits file 990 before, so I kind of know how to read them and I thought lets go read it.
You should have followed your first instinct. You sound like the guy who changed a few tires and now believes he's as qualified as a Goodyear Engineer.
(Snipped self-aggrandizing essay, because no one wants to read it twice)
The National Review, for those of you who do not know, is a conservative right wing magazine started by William Buckley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley%2C_Jr. I, and others, believe that no other publication did more to define modern day conservatism in America than the National Review. (While many disagreed with Buckley and his view points, no one that I know of ever accused Buckley of lying. Not lying, now there is a conservative and liberal idea that we all should support and promote!)
Italicsare mine, as it provides a clue into your mindset.
I would say that I know of Bill Buckley, having done considerable volunteer work for his brother James while in high school and college (beginning in 1970)..... Brilliant man, kind and affable. So was Jim, although he wasn't nearly as cerebral as his brother.
(Snipped more commentary on tax shelters and similar blather)
I’ve often believed that if you want to understand America you can read the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gaithersburg Address and all of the Constitutional Amendments, and you will not really get it until you dig into the US Tax Code, Regulations and Official Guidance. http://www.irs.gov/Tax-Professionals/Tax-Code,-Regulations-and-Official-Guidance.
Your auto-correct is kicking your arse.... At least I'll give the benefit of the doubt.... Gaithersburg Address? I suppose it's safe to say, Gettysburg Address. have you even been on Watter's World?
Of course, this was Lincoln's expression, and it was not fully accepted at the time. It surely isn't given its due merit today. One could easily argue that many see things today as government of the government, by the government for the government. Lincoln's admonition is wasted on the current generation. An old friend of John Adams, writing in a personal letter to Adams just before his death, stated that, "If every second bureaucrat in Federal government were hanged on Sunday, the others would be farmers by Tuesday." It seems that even in its infancy, government was viewed as weak in morality and a danger to the American concept by some, thought to be well educated and wise.
To understand America, one must first understand that America is a concept of liberty and self-governance. That concept is expressed in the various historic documents you name, but to truly grasp the concept, you must go much, much deeper. At the foundation of this country, not everyone agreed to what constituted the basic concept. I recommend seeing Dinesh D'Souza's film, America: Imagine the World Without Her. D'Souza provides a very competent explantion of the "concept" and its affect on the human race over the past 230 years. He also provides many examples of a national affliction I like to call "social Allodynia", or a condition where hot is sensed as cold, and cold as hot.
Of course there are a couple of other issues out there and open for debate. But the one fact that we now know is that Kyle is a liar. A court of law says so.
Actually, a jury determined that. A judge or judges will determine if the jury was incorrect. Besides, we all understand that courts get it wrong. That's why we have an appeal process. in 1973, SCOTUS ruled that an unborn child is not a person. According to Gallup, 63% of Americans believe the court was wrong in total, or in part. Need I mention the Dred Scott decision?
I understand why this would brother some people immensely. If he lied about a stupid bar fight, what else did he lie about? Were all of his 200+ kills (162 confirmed), to use his words “damn savages”. Were there innocents that he killed? I do not know, but we have the word of a liar and … ah…well just the word of a liar.
Do you know (without Google's assistance) what ROEs are?
Rules of Engagement. Yeah, there are rules imposed. Many, even most, believe that politically motivated ROEs are simply bad. They can be when they create unwanted risk. War sucks, and to pick up on Robert E. Lee's point (in modern vernacular), it is good that it sucks, or we would like it too much. ROE's are often in place to protect the innocent. Defining the innocent is where it gets politicized. Of course, the value of ROEs is largely diluted when the "damn savages" have no such morals. When Kyle was in Iraq, the ROEs were in a constant state of change. However, an unjustified shooting could easily lead to finding oneself in prison. I doubt that he pulled trigger on innocents. See the film. Read the book.
There are several things that I'm beginning to believe. You haven't read Kyle's book, nor seen the film. You haven't been in the military, and certainly haven't experienced combat. Did I get those right? Why are those things significant?
You have an opinion, but I don't give many opinions weight. Why? Because, opinions are invariably conclusions drawn in the absence of knowledge.
I'm also an Engineer with nearly 40 years of experience. I prefer to deal in facts. Facts are often classified as data. Data is accumulated and analyzed. Conclusions are then drawn, supported by the facts and only the facts. The area of issue is often the assumption that all data is factual, and not tainted with opinion. Thus, one must be capable of isolating fact and opinion. I don't think you have done so. I don't know that you can. The evidence (IE: Facts) doesn't support that you can at this point.
On another issue, Americans across the country are reporting a significant occurrence of acts of intimidation and suggested acts of violence on their persons by patrons of the movie. I hope that we can all agree that such behavior is despicable and should not be tolerated by anyone.
Now, this is an amazing statement. It's also a stunning strawman argument. You're saying that people who see the film somehow become violent thugs? LOLOLOLOL What does this suggest of those who watch the "Living Dead"? Go see the film. Stop by your library and borrow the book.
Your admonition about charities is surely valid. There are many lousy charities. I urge anyone who wishes to give (for vets, children, etc) to take the time to learn where the money really goes.
I recommend Charity Navigator as a place to begin.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/ (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)
For many years, my wife has been supporting Feed the Children (rated 4 out of 4). She's retired and has the time, and we are blessed with the resources. We now contribute to two children. We exchange letters and help the families provide for special occasions, like Christmas and birthdays as well as the monthly donation to provide healthy food, medical treatment and education. She recently added Wounded Warriors Project (rated just shy of 4 out of 4) to the monthly list. Since 2003, my wife has been sending care packages to soldiers and Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Several of these men (with their families) have become almost like part of our family. Indeed, some have visited us at our home. Giving back is the best way forward, for us as individuals and as a nation. "For, to whom much is given, much is expected".
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I recommend seeing Dinesh D'Souza's film, America: Imagine the World Without Her. D'Souza provides a very competent explantion of the "concept" and its affect on the human race over the past 230 years.
:aok
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I recommend Charity Navigator as a place to begin.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/ (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)
Thanks for the info on Charity Navigator.
Good Day.
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Americans are unable to accept "ANY" criticism :old:
Their first reaction blame everyone else and get angry :old:
A American watched the film and said it was a bit like a Propaganda film, he seemd rather embarrassed :old:
The inability to take criticism is a bit sinister :old:
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How dare you Zackary! If I wasn't Canadian I would be angry and blame you for me being angry! Not that I am sensitive or anything a wot! :old:
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Huzzah!
:old:
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Americans are unable to accept "ANY" criticism :old:
Their first reaction blame everyone else and get angry :old:
A American watched the film and said it was a bit like a Propaganda film, he seemd rather embarrassed :old:
The inability to take criticism is a bit sinister :old:
Most Americans are actualy nice reasonable people trying to live an honest life. They do get drowned out more frequently these days perhaps by an indignation fueled by a culture of victimhood ("This country is going to hell", "You and me are the only ones paying taxes buddy!", "We had individual rights once, do not let that tree of liberty wilt"...). I must say that all this is actually quite profitable for media organizations among others. It is probably why we are not going to see an end to all this any time soon.
But anyway, it is not as if you Brits can claim a blight free past. Some of your greatest hits (on random):
Defense of the Realm Act
India
Rhodesia
The coal miners strikes (both sides)
The English National Soccer Team
(what did I miss?) :neener:
I will say, however, that you guys have shown a capacity to learn. I wish that that was as true here in America. :old:
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But anyway, it is not as if you Brits can claim a blight free past. Some of your greatest hits (on random):
Let us not forget "Penny Lane" by Sir Paul McCartney and those lovable chaps! :old: :D
I must admit I favour this version! :aok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7daIm7zGAc
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:rofl
No one in Liverpool listens to the Beatles, they listen more to American soul music :)
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Most Americans are actualy nice reasonable people trying to live an honest life.
My experience has been that this is universal. We have friends in various nations, and the one thing they all have in common is a desire to be left alone to live in peace. To raise their families without conflict, to have a little prosperity and a little better life for their children and grand children. It is a minority who insist on imposing their will on mankind that makes that common desire so difficult to sustain.
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Americans are unable to accept "ANY" criticism :old:
Their first reaction blame everyone else and get angry :old:
A American watched the film and said it was a bit like a Propaganda film, he seemd rather embarrassed :old:
The inability to take criticism is a bit sinister :old:
When you encounter Americans , as a Brit, you should just say thank you and move on!
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My experience has been that this is universal. We have friends in various nations, and the one thing they all have in common is a desire to be left alone to live in peace. To raise their families without conflict, to have a little prosperity and a little better life for their children and grand children. It is a minority who insist on imposing their will on mankind that makes that common desire so difficult to sustain.
+1 :aok
I have friends, acquaintances and relatives in Italy, England, Slovakia and Ireland. They fit the above description perfectly
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When you encounter Americans , as a Brit, you should just say thank you and move on!
I prove my point :rofl
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Well, what have we learned?
Lot's don't like the film because it isn't an anti-Bush diatribe. Non Americans don't like American war movies because they are too "American" (ya think?) and Jesse Ventura is an a-hole.
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I prove my point :rofl
and you prove mine! Brits rarely do what's right , or good for themselves!
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Americans are unable to accept "ANY" criticism :old:
Their first reaction blame everyone else and get angry :old:
A American watched the film and said it was a bit like a Propaganda film, he seemd rather embarrassed :old:
The inability to take criticism is a bit sinister :old:
Hey Zack, we love you guys anyway.
I've always had a soft spot for Brits. I've always admired the individuality of Britain. Their remarkable national sense of humor. Their love of innovation. Their passion for auto racing, history, and their vivid sense of national identity. Every time I've visited, I felt among friends and family.... Of course, I was among friends and family... ;) My wife's father is/was a Scot, brought here as a child. She has many relatives there. Our last visit was specifically to visit those kind folks.
While there, I dragged her down to Brands Hatch (took the train from Edinburgh to London) for a vintage racing car event. Wonderful! Famous place. We were met later by my oldest step daughter and her cousin for some sight seeing around London. My wife is anxious to go again soon... She is still chasing down her family history.
I love the culture, but still laugh at some things Brits accept with dead seriousness. For example: Brands Hatch names many of its corners after famous Brit race drivers, and some for their location. Between Westfield Bend and Sheene Curve is Dingle Dell. Yep, Dingle Dell. Only Brits could name something Dingle Dell and not understand how hilarious that is to Americans.
My only real complaint for Brits, is their immigration policy, which threatens their wonderful culture... Tighten that up, lads.... Yeah, I know... Pot-kettle....
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My experience has been that this is universal. We have friends in various nations, and the one thing they all have in common is a desire to be left alone to live in peace. To raise their families without conflict, to have a little prosperity and a little better life for their children and grand children. It is a minority who insist on imposing their will on mankind that makes that common desire so difficult to sustain.
:aok
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and you prove mine! Brits rarely do what's right , or good for themselves!
We told Hitler to suck our spuds :)
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We told Hitler to suck our spuds :)
yeah I saw that writing on all the equipment you guys left at Dunkirk :uhoh.
semp
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yeah I saw that writing on all the equipment you guys left at Dunkirk :uhoh.
semp
Fair point, well made. But at least they did not have to ask a Frenchman called Lafayette for help.
Just saying :bolt:
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Fair point, well made. But at least they did not have to ask a Frenchman called Lafayette for help.
Just saying :bolt:
America did much more than that. They sent Adams and Franklin to France to petition the King for help. It took years, and Franklin had become quite the social center of attention in Paris. Adams just wanted to go home.
Of course, it wasn't long after US independence was secured that France went through their own revolution, that finally evolved into a miniature narcissistic sociopath named Bonaparte leading Europe into war and chaos for many years. Napoleon the 2nd insisted on provoking America with his interference in Mexico during our Civil War. Britain sympathized with the Confederacy, but needed the commerce with the Union. The Trent Incident nearly caused a war between the Union and Britain. Lincoln thought one war at a time was the wiser choice. Tensions abated as neither nation wanted conflict.
America eventually paid its debt of blood back to France, at least twice. If anyone thinks that the French didn't appreciate this, just visit the American war cemeteries maintained by France... They remember. Get past any nation's elitists, and you'll find the simple folk, who need no convincing that war is bad... They remember, because they were the ones to bare the suffering of conquerors and their wars for power, riches and idealism.
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Americans are unable to accept "ANY" criticism :old:
Their first reaction blame everyone else and get angry :old:
I can't accept that!
And, besides, whatever it is you are talking about is Bush's fault!
:mad:
;)
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I can't accept that!
And, besides, whatever it is you are talking about is Bush's fault!
:mad:
;)
brooke relax, all the girls shave now, well most of them anyway.
semp
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:rofl
No one in Liverpool listens to the Beatles, they listen more to American soul music :)
Imposable! America is evil and has no soul to speak of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good day guvnor.
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Some famous person said "you judge a nation by the way it treats its least privileged citizens" ( cant remember who )
So lets have a look
U.K free healthcare- USA most expensive on the planet
welfare payments here are enough to get by - USA highest child poverty rate in the western world and adult malnutrition is now worse than the depression in some states
And then when a President who has a plan to correct this gets elected (Obama) the media (Nazi Fox Network) try to discredit him with lies and innuendo
But most Americans I have met in the flesh are decent honest caring people and that goes for all the servicemen and women I have known too .
Thanks to all the people who have given themselves for my freedom and especially THANKS to the American people We couldn't have defeated Hitler without your help
IN conclusion if you are unhappy about something aim your anger at those who deserve it i.e. the ahole politicians and Corporate thieves not the BRAVE
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Oldskool65 is delusional about the US government. Its a outrage.
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Oldskool65 is delusional about the US government. Its a outrage.
Nope he said "free healthcare." It sounds like he's just plain ol' delusional.
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Some famous person said "you judge a nation by the way it treats its least privileged citizens" ( cant remember who )
So lets have a look
U.K free healthcare- USA most expensive on the planet
welfare payments here are enough to get by - USA highest child poverty rate in the western world and adult malnutrition is now worse than the depression in some states
And then when a President who has a plan to correct this gets elected (Obama) the media (Nazi Fox Network) try to discredit him with lies and innuendo
\
America has a history of self reliance. Most of us don't believe in subsidizing welfare as a lifestyle.
The majority of Americans get very good healthcare.
We are more resistant to socialism than you are.
Obama gets very favorable treatment from 90% of the American media.
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Some famous person said "you judge a nation by the way it treats its least privileged citizens" ( cant remember who )
And this is how and why the United States was born.
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Mel Gibson films are as follows:
1. America is right
2.The British are bad
American films are all baically the same.
I apologise for Lord of The Rings, which is fact a load of bott wipe :old:
If i were in charge the world woud be a better place, if fact it would be awesome :old:
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If i were in charge the world woud be a better place, if fact it would be awesome :old:
Zack for overlord! :aok
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If Zack was made emperor the South would have to reclaim it's lands north of the M25. :D
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Nope he said "free healthcare." It sounds like he's just plain ol' delusional.
When I first read it, it reminded me of this:
"And when Charles Manson, who had a marvelous plan for mankind, got convicted, the media (Dianne Sawyer interview) tried to discredit him with lies and innuendo." ;)
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"America has a history of self reliance. Most of us don't believe in subsidizing welfare as a lifestyle." = I'm ok bud screw you hmm so caring
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Americans are the most charitable people on Earth measured in any way you want, provided that private charities are considered and not just government "welfare" systems.
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Prove it!
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-us-ran_n_1159562.html
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Its fake!
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:lol
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"America has a history of self reliance. Most of us don't believe in subsidizing welfare as a lifestyle." = I'm ok bud screw you hmm so caring
Actually it's = I have to work so why should I have to pay so that you don't have to?
We have social security and disability for those who are unable.
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Sorry for going way off topic
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Sorry for going way off topic
I'm really glad you did change that because what you had written down there before was way off base.
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what was originally in my post IS true and was only removed to stop the thread being locked !
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I missed it but going on what you have written so far, we can all be sure it was way off base.
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PNG-worthy even.
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His post from yesterday? Nah, not PNG worthy, just a point of view.
It's the sort of stuff I wish we could discuss here. I wish AH had a politics forum.
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I'm glad I didn't get to see that post then.
I like the Brits and respect what they did in the war especially the RAF. The Allies won the war not the USA.
Now what they like in Britain as far as government, economic or health care system is not necessarily what we should have here or vice-versa.
It's good that countries are not all the same, that would be boring.
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His post from yesterday?
It's the sort of stuff I wish we could discuss here. I wish AH had a politics forum.
:aok
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His post from yesterday? Nah, not PNG worthy, just a point of view.
It's the sort of stuff I wish we could discuss here. I wish AH had a politics forum.
I'm glad it doesn't. I'm actually quite tired of seeing polifights take over everything from quilting forums to movie reviews.
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Americans are the most charitable people on Earth measured in any way you want, provided that private charities are considered and not just government "welfare" systems.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-us-ran_n_1159562.html
I just read the entire CAF report (all 68 pages) (I skip/skimmed a few of the regional summaries and a lot of the tables - no real need to read).
Before I post a comment with my thoughts, I was wondering where you saw the statement about private charities being considered and not just government welfare systems?
Thanks
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I'm glad it doesn't. I'm actually quite tired of seeing polifights take over everything from quilting forums to movie reviews.
I think that you may have just made the foundational statement FOR such an area.
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I think that you may have just made the foundational statement FOR such an area.
Not so much. I think I get why there isn't one here. Let's talk game, WWII, community events and reasonable recreational other stuff. (Polifighting ain't reasonable.)
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I'm glad it doesn't. I'm actually quite tired of seeing polifights take over everything from quilting forums to movie reviews.
I don't mean allowing it in all topics -- I mean I wish that it had a politics forum, like the o'club. Quarantine it there, but allow it there.
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I don't mean allowing it in all topics -- I mean I wish that it had a politics forum, like the o'club. Quarantine it there, but allow it there.
No but no. Take politics to a political forum. Make those who can't post without it involving their political opinion learn to resist that negative urge here. It brings no good to a forum dedicated to leisure. It ...... drags ...... things ...... down.
(I've yet to see opposing political viewpoints reach a positive consensus on anything in the last half of my lifetime. People are stupid, in general, but when it comes to politics .... sheesh.)
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No but no. Take politics to a political forum. Make those who can't post without it involving their political opinion learn to resist that negative urge here. It brings no good to a forum dedicated to leisure. It ...... drags ...... things ...... down.
There are no political forums out there that have a mix of people on them like we have here. If there is, please point me to it, and I will be grateful. Also, politics is a significant part of existence. It's hard to discuss things of significance without politics or culture, or both, being an important part of it. If we had a politics forum here, you would not be required to read it or visit it, so I fail to see how it would cause you any inconvenience.
(I've yet to see opposing political viewpoints reach a positive consensus on anything in the last half of my lifetime.
You can replace "political" with "P-51", "Brewster", "Head-on", "tactics", "WWII", "best tank", "best player", "12-hour rule", "AH features", "terrain", "roll rate", "Allison", "good music", "good movie", "Market Garden", "meat pies", "beer", "aviation gasoline", "advertising", "computer", "antivirus", "Windows", "joystick", "ISP", "weather", or any of one million other descriptors (except for "Pearl Harbor movie" -- everyone is of a mind on that). If that is the criterion for discussion, might as well disallow all discussion.
There are folks (like me) who love to discuss politics. There are folks (like you) who hate to discuss politics. My view is that you can allow it in its own place for the former so that the later don't have to even ever see it.
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Oh, Brooke .... don't think this is about me. I happen to agree with Dale and Skuzzy that political and religious discussions attract nothing but negativity to the forum and the game it serves. It's not like that's an unproven. I've squared off in Bigweek before and I've seen the worst in some of the best people there.
Of course, I've seen almost a couple of decades pass since and I've noticed that I'm starting to get rather more particular in how I choose to waste my time. Guess, when it comes to AH, I'd rather argue about game related matters (and perhaps touch on some non-game related recreational subjects that can be discussed civilly) than inject an unrelated agenda into things that are actually designed more to incite than be insightful (and yes, that is my personal preference). I've yet to see anyone else make a discussion better on the AH forum (or anywhere else) by doing so.
I don't think a separate political argument sub-forum will do anything but give problem children a place to act out on the AH forum (and I think new visitors would unfortunately visit there first and form their opinion about the community based on the most negative things allowed to exist there). When I'm proven wrong and political/religious (some may say they are one and the same) arguments make the AH forums a 'better place for everyone' then I'll keep my personal opinion about it to myself. But I suspect the powers that be, in their wisdom, will not test that theory. :)
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Yes, I know that the odds of a politics forum here are near zero.
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The Trent Incident nearly caused a war between the Union and Britain. Lincoln thought one war at a time was the wiser choice.
I recently finished Shelby Foote's 3 volume civil war set - this is pretty much an exact quote from the first book. I've always imagined what may have happened had the Southerners not been set free, or the British ship damaged, sunk, or even fired directly on. Had Britain entered the war, or even just supplied the South with more arms, supplies, money, and even arranged European mercenaries had British troops not been sent.
As for the politics forum, I'm with Brooke (obviously), but I understand why it isn't here. Back in 2000 during the fracas and hanging chad stuff, this forum turned into a battleground, where friend turned on friend quickly, sort of like the first part of this post, it became a literal modern civil war with words. Unfortunately the other side to that sword is many who didn't like the censure or lack of politics on the forum left, and held a grudge, there are hundreds, nearly a thousand, over at another website who bring this up from time to time, having left Aces High the game, over Aces High the forum, which sucks. I think many will wander back when the new version comes out, there is already a squad with nearly a dozen players from there that have returned, and many more ask about the game there now. I can't ever see a politics forum coming back, but SimHQ did precisely what Brooke has suggested, isolated and quarantined their politics, war, economy, and other sensitive subjects in a manner that hasn't interfered with their huge forum traffic in the other gaming areas. It's even hard to find if you don't know where to look for it, and there are still some rules, but for the most part there is very little mod interaction in their entire bbs, which is far larger than here. So, I believe it CAN be done, but also believe it won't be, at least not here.
and I think new visitors would unfortunately visit there first and form their opinion about the community based on the most negative things allowed to exist there
That argument doesn't hold up very well here, since the game itself and its comm system, both vox and 200, have politics, bad language, and fights over any manner of subject matter, take your pick, popping up on an hourly basis, still to this day. Yet it doesn't receive near the censure or attention and moderation that the forum does. The actual game = do whatever you like, with a 5 percent chance of getting muted, the forum however, behave or die. Using the "defending the new customer" shield..well that shield is in splinters really when you consider the fact that the first thing a player will see is in fact the game, not the forum, HTC itself says most even long term players never read the bbs, much less new sign ups, so stop banging this "protect the children and new customers from the forum" gong. I would bet for every 10 customers that see something negative in the game, maybe 1 sees something negative on the forum, if that. If protecting the newbies is so critical, why is the place where they are most likely to see negative things a free for all still, and always has been?
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'Banging a gong' :lol
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First I obviously disagree with most of the people who read our forums about political/philosophical/cultural matters going by the negative responses
I apologize if I come across a bit adversarial in my posts but I have found if you poke the bear you get an instant and emotional response ,this gives insight to the minds of other posters as you tend to get honest replies ( a tactic learned from a C.IA training technique )
again sorry if I offended anyone
:aok to a political discussion topic
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'C.I.A. training technique' :lol
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Honest it's true although the agent who told me was called Stan Smith hmm
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It's not like that's an unproven. I've squared off in Bigweek before and I've seen the worst in some of the best people there.
While I didn't think so at the time, 3rdUp was right. Politics in a hobby newsgroup is permanently destructive. Bigweek was certainly the most interesting newsgroup I've ever seen, and politics reduced it to a shadow.
The old adage is right: Don't talk politics or religion.
- oldman
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Oh, Brooke .... don't think this is about me. I happen to agree with Dale and Skuzzy that political and religious discussions attract nothing but negativity to the forum and the game it serves. It's not like that's an unproven. I've squared off in Bigweek before and I've seen the worst in some of the best people there.
Of course, I've seen almost a couple of decades pass since and I've noticed that I'm starting to get rather more particular in how I choose to waste my time. Guess, when it comes to AH, I'd rather argue about game related matters (and perhaps touch on some non-game related recreational subjects that can be discussed civilly) than inject an unrelated agenda into things that are actually designed more to incite than be insightful (and yes, that is my personal preference). I've yet to see anyone else make a discussion better on the AH forum (or anywhere else) by doing so.
I don't think a separate political argument sub-forum will do anything but give problem children a place to act out on the AH forum (and I think new visitors would unfortunately visit there first and form their opinion about the community based on the most negative things allowed to exist there). When I'm proven wrong and political/religious (some may say they are one and the same) arguments make the AH forums a 'better place for everyone' then I'll keep my personal opinion about it to myself. But I suspect the powers that be, in their wisdom, will not test that theory. :)
I tend to agree that no good will come of it. I used to belong to a forum dedicated to an authors works. There was a politics sub forum there and I just could not resist participating in it.
Short story is I was so outnumbered and the whole thing left such bitterness that I not only boycott the whole forum, but also the author.
This forum is vital to the game and business. I can certainly understand HTC's reluctance to allow such discussions, despite the fact that I, at the very least brush up against #14 occasionally.