Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Groth on October 13, 2014, 05:35:52 PM

Title: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Groth on October 13, 2014, 05:35:52 PM
http://theweek.com/article/index/269819/speedreads-flying-coffin-wreck-from-world-war-ii-found-in-italy (http://theweek.com/article/index/269819/speedreads-flying-coffin-wreck-from-world-war-ii-found-in-italy)
I don't know if it was easier or harder to get out of then some other planes..thoughts?
                                                                         Original article...http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/flying-coffin-wwii-wreck-found-141013.htm (http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/flying-coffin-wwii-wreck-found-141013.htm)
 JGroth
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: DaveBB on October 13, 2014, 06:36:05 PM
All WWII heavy bombers were extremely difficult to get out of.  Why? Because G-forces pinned the crew to the floor.  It must have been horrific trying to get out of a spinning bomber.  Or a bomber in any sort of uncontrolled maneuver for that matter.
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Puma44 on October 13, 2014, 07:23:08 PM
Why? Because G-forces pinned the crew to the floor.  It must have been horrific trying to get out of a spinning bomber. 
Why would they get pinned to the floor in a spin?
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Nwbie on October 13, 2014, 07:33:14 PM
Why would they get pinned to the floor in a spin?

you ever ride in one of these?
(http://www.historybyzim.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tilt-a-whirl1.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Puma44 on October 13, 2014, 07:38:22 PM
you ever ride in one of these?
(http://www.historybyzim.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tilt-a-whirl1.jpg)
Yeah, and the question still stands.  The kiddy ride isn't in a three dimensional environment.
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: DaveBB on October 13, 2014, 07:44:35 PM
So the bomber gets hit, and the control cables are severed,  it could go into a g-inducing barrel roll type spin.  Or it could go into a flat spin while losing altitude.  In that case, the crew would be pinned to the roof.  In the numerous accounts I have read, crew members recounted being stuck inside the bomber unable to move to the exit.  The only thing that saved them in these cases is the break-up of the bomber, at which point they were either thrown out or could somehow escape.

But the main point is that G-forces played a huge part in bomber crews not being able to escape.  Whether negative or positive G's.
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 13, 2014, 08:07:38 PM
http://theweek.com/article/index/269819/speedreads-flying-coffin-wreck-from-world-war-ii-found-in-italy (http://theweek.com/article/index/269819/speedreads-flying-coffin-wreck-from-world-war-ii-found-in-italy)
I don't know if it was easier or harder to get out of then some other planes..thoughts?
                                                                         Original article...http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/flying-coffin-wwii-wreck-found-141013.htm (http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/flying-coffin-wwii-wreck-found-141013.htm)
 JGroth

One of the reasons why B-24 crews sometimes referred to the B-24 as a flying coffin because it was very difficult for the flight crew and nose gunner to get to the exit at the rear of the plane while wearing parachutes in case they had to bail out.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: colmbo on October 13, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
Why would they get pinned to the floor in a spin?

They wouldn't.  They might get pinned against the side of the fuselage (met two guys that experienced that).

Text with the article is BS.  There are two exits on the 24...one top of fuselage just behind cockpit and on belly aft of the waist positions.  However the crew forward would use the bombbay (pilot, copilot, top gunner) or the nose wheel opening (navigator, bombardier, nose gunner).
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: colmbo on October 13, 2014, 08:48:12 PM
One of the reasons why B-24 crews sometimes referred to the B-24 as a flying coffin because it was very difficult for the flight crew and nose gunner to get to the exit at the rear of the plane while wearing parachutes in case they had to bail out.

ack-ack

If they were going aft to edit they weren't thinking since they crawled right past the nose wheel where they were supposed to exit.
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Puma44 on October 13, 2014, 11:17:35 PM
They wouldn't.  They might get pinned against the side of the fuselage (met two guys that experienced that).
Zactly what I was getting at, Columbo.  Thanks!   :aok
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 14, 2014, 12:17:26 AM
Isn't a spin a 1G manoeuver?
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: DaveBB on October 14, 2014, 05:59:03 AM
Isn't a spin a 1G manoeuver?

There's no way.  In the infamous "Memphis Belle" footage, a B-17 falls out of the formation in a spin, and only two guys get out.  Only two guys got out of this B-17 (actual footage).  It's in a nice gentle "1g spin" as you claim.  
http://youtu.be/Dn8tqacRXK4?t=26m (http://youtu.be/Dn8tqacRXK4?t=26m)
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: GScholz on October 14, 2014, 06:59:33 AM
In a spin g-forces would be difficult to overcome, and even in a normal dive the crew would have to climb to get to the rear of the plane...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3LRKegCdRI&feature=player_detailpage#t=98
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Ratsy on October 14, 2014, 09:04:11 AM
So...when an aircraft departs from controlled flight the 'floor' becomes relative.  I get it.

 :salute
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: earl1937 on October 14, 2014, 11:24:48 AM
Isn't a spin a 1G manoeuver?
:airplane: you are pulling 1G when standing still sir! You, me and everybody else would be spun off the face of the earth, if we didn't pull 1G standing on the surface. I think if a bomber crew was in a spin, they would be plastered against the rear bulk head, if in the rear of the a/c. I doubt if the a/c and crew up front would be able to get out of their seats to bail out. Its hard to say what limitations would be placed on the crew in a spin.
The B-17 shown in Memphis Belle, spinning out of control, if you look closely, they came out of the bomb bay, which suggests it was the radio operator and top turret gunner! Not sure of that though!
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: wpeters on October 14, 2014, 11:46:45 AM
They wouldn't.  They might get pinned against the side of the fuselage (met two guys that experienced that).

Text with the article is BS.  There are two exits on the 24...one top of fuselage just behind cockpit and on belly aft of the waist positions.  However the crew forward would use the bombbay (pilot, copilot, top gunner) or the nose wheel opening (navigator, bombardier, nose gunner).

Another reason it was dangerous was the engineer in the event of a water ditching had to wait til just before impact to release the life raft from the bomber.  In most cases he gave his life to save the rest of the crew.  B-24 sank like a rock.  Very little time on the surface.  Most times under 4 minutes
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: Puma44 on October 14, 2014, 02:20:12 PM
So...when an aircraft departs from controlled flight the 'floor' becomes relative.  I get it.

 :salute
That's correct.  The G forces during the out of control/spin will define the "floor".
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 14, 2014, 04:50:06 PM
I'm not an aero pilot, but I remember spining in a Decathlon and the G meter showed 1G-ish.

Sure the scenery was flying by but inside the cockpit it didn't feel damatic at all. Might have to do with me being close from the axis of rotation, compared to a spider all the way in the back of the fuselage.
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: DaveBB on October 14, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
Frenchy, aren't you a cargo pilot? 
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on October 14, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
Medevac now, was cargo for 10 years why?
Title: Re: Flying Coffin..? Tag writer over-reach?
Post by: DaveBB on October 14, 2014, 05:46:59 PM
A cargo plane isn't too much different than a WW2 bomber.  Plus I was just inquiring about your aeronautical knowledge.