Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on October 19, 2014, 11:02:54 AM
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Enough already! 2/3 of my flights in the last few months I end up with a PW.
And in a D9 I should not be getting Pilot wounds from bbs at 1000+ out from a pure 6 shot.
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pws are annoying as hellllllllllllllllll
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Radiator hits are more annoying.
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I too think HTC has a bit of an issue with the frequency of PW's, AND the number of radiator hits as well. But... good luck in getting them to change anything. They have their "hit boxes" set. Best of luck to get them adjusted or changed.
On the other hand.... stop and think just how far a .50 cal round can penetrate aluminum from 600 yards.
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Many pilot wounds here as well. Continuous problem for me since coming back in 2013. Getting good at landing quick before pilot dies.
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I too think HTC has a bit of an issue with the frequency of PW's, AND the number of radiator hits as well. But... good luck in getting them to change anything. They have their "hit boxes" set. Best of luck to get them adjusted or changed.
On the other hand.... stop and think just how far a .50 cal round can penetrate aluminum from 600 yards.
What's annoying for me is the plate behind the pilot, I've gotten pilot wounds from my 6 with that huge plate behind me(in some planes causing me to not be able to look at my 6). So if the plate does nothing, at least remove it so I can look behind me since it serves no other purpose. :D
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Enough already! 2/3 of my flights in the last few months I end up with a PW.
And in a D9 I should not be getting Pilot wounds from bbs at 1000+ out from a pure 6 shot.
:airplane: Don't have any facts to back me up on this, but I would venture a guess that in a fighter, less than 2 or 3 % of fighter sorties had pilot wounds! Ever see any films of figher sorties ending with oil all over windshield? I haven't and I bet I have seen most of them over the years. An engine hit doesn't always cover the windshield with oil.
The same cannot be said of the bomber crews, as if they were attacked and did manage to get home, some of the crew was wounded most times, sometimes pilot and co-pilot, but I bet the times that both were wounded would also be very little. Something is wrong with the "box" as some have called it, but don't know anything can be done about it.
One that gets me is when a LA7 rams me from front and I am in a jug and he flies off, not even smoking and I have oil all over windshield and 1/2 of a wing gone! I also agree with the "6" shot when in a jug! The thing had armor plating a 1/2 inch thick! Deflection shots from 10-2-4-6 relative, OK, but straight on and straight "6" shots, I don't think so!!
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If you are coming at my bombers, rest assured I am aiming at your cockpit.
That said, I wish that pilot wounds in buffs would take notice that we have a co-pilot on board, and I wish that there we some kind of indicator as to how fast I am bleeding out other than how much my cockpit window looks like an episode of the walking dead.
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If you are coming at my bombers, rest assured I am aiming at your cockpit.
That said, I wish that pilot wounds in buffs would take notice that we have a co-pilot on board, and I wish that there we some kind of indicator as to how fast I am bleeding out other than how much my cockpit window looks like an episode of the walking dead.
I dunno, real life doesn't provide a health meter. I like the idea of planes with 2 pilots having sime redundancy.
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flew for 8 hours yesterday and only had one pilot wound. meh, don't seem to see them that often.
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I guess this is one of the glass half full / half empty things to look at, because each time I get a PW (and it's not that often), I'm glad it's not been an instant death. Most PW's I actually survive, unless in bombers.
Speaking of pilot wounds in bombers: I have been particularly unlucky yesterday. Took a Mossie XVI formation to the City. *boom*, PW. Bail out of the lead bomber and just one second later *boom* PW. :noid
But overall that's nothing I feel complaining about...
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each time I get a PW (and it's not that often), I'm glad it's not been an instant death.
Agreed. PWs are a chance to land the plane.
- oldman
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quit letting people on your Six. :ahand :D
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flew for 8 hours yesterday and only had one pilot wound. meh, don't seem to see them that often.
You also tend to be a 30 thousand feet picker
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I too think HTC has a bit of an issue with the frequency of PW's, AND the number of radiator hits as well. But... good luck in getting them to change anything. They have their "hit boxes" set. Best of luck to get them adjusted or changed.
On the other hand.... stop and think just how far a .50 cal round can penetrate aluminum from 600 yards.
600 ok maybe depending on how well the cockpit is armored.
The 190 had a 13 mm plate to protect head and shoulders of the pilot, 8 mm seat armor, some 5 mm and 6 mm plate to fill in the gaps around the seat, and an armoured windscreen 50 mm thick.
1000...no
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I rarely get pw's :old:
Probably because I don't blatantly show my full profile late in the break for lag rolls or scissors... The pw's will magicllystart going away if you are aware of your profile from your enemy's perspective! They gunna shoot? GET SMALL!
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I rarely get pw's :old:
Probably because I don't blatantly show my full profile late in the break for lag rolls or scissors... The pw's will magicllystart going away if you are aware of your profile from your enemy's perspective! They gunna shoot? GET SMALL!
This.
Hitech never had to model a PW feature, it could have just been that a round to the canopy was an instant pilot kill.
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You would think the La7 and Yak with no head armor would get killed on a 6 shot instead of a pilot wound.
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You also tend to be a 30 thousand feet picker
LOL! Ya right. I get scared going over 15k.
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Pilot wounds are pretty gay.
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Pilot wounds are pretty gay.
Really?
You should see my Mossie pilot. He sustained so many wounds that women and tough men alike run screaming in horror at the sight of him. Last time he walked in the park he got darted with a tranquilizer and woke up in a cage with Orangutans. :uhoh
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You also tend to be a 30 thousand feet picker
Peanut I have seen Fugi fighting under 10,000 feet many times.
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Peanut I have seen Fugi fighting under 10,000 feet many times.
He is always otd in any major furball I have been in the past few months. He has cleared me many times.
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You would think the La7 and Yak with no head armor would get killed on a 6 shot instead of a pilot wound.
Those two fighters had bullet proof glass instead of metal for the rear head armor. Take a closer look next time from your cockpit.
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LOL! Ya right. I get scared going over 15k.
The only time Fuji makes it to 30K is when the bruins make the playoffs....so not very often! :devil
:salute
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The only time Fuji makes it to 30K is when the bruins make the playoffs....so not very often! :devil
:salute
I've fallen asleep on auto-climb, myself. The film was kinda funny. Shoulda kept it.
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Peanut I have seen Fugi fighting under 10,000 feet many times.
ya trying to clear your 6 :neener:
He is always otd in any major furball I have been in the past few months. He has cleared me many times.
...yes and yours.
My wingman (Mark4) get mad when I jump in like that :P
The only time Fuji makes it to 30K is when the bruins make the playoffs....so not very often! :devil
:salute
HEY ! The Bruins almost ALWAYS make the play-offs. The problem is, is that they don't often go very far in the play-offs :cry
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ya trying to clear your 6 :neener:
That be true. :salute
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flew for 8 hours yesterday and only had one pilot wound. meh, don't seem to see them that often.
That's because over the last 5 tours, you average less than 3 kills per hour (2.874 per hour, to be exact). Over your aforementioned 8 hours, you engaged (statistically) an average of 22.9 fighters. There are some of us who regularly manage that many kills (or more) in one hour, so naturally you wouldn't see the same amount of pilot wounding that we do.
Pilot wounds do happen with quite regular frequency. The most annoying ones to me are when there's glass that has "visually" stopped the bullet (impacts on the glass can be seen behind the pilot, but they are not breaking through it), only to see blood all over the front of the cockpit. The same with steel-backed cockpits.
It's unrealistic and annoying as heck, moreso when the pilot wound comes from a random ack burst.
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That's because over the last 5 tours, you average less than 3 kills per hour (2.874 per hour, to be exact). Over your aforementioned 8 hours, you engaged (statistically) an average of 22.9 fighters. There are some of us who regularly manage that many kills (or more) in one hour, so naturally you wouldn't see the same amount of pilot wounding that we do.
Pilot wounds do happen with quite regular frequency. The most annoying ones to me are when there's glass that has "visually" stopped the bullet (impacts on the glass can be seen behind the pilot, but they are not breaking through it), only to see blood all over the front of the cockpit. The same with steel-backed cockpits.
It's unrealistic and annoying as heck, moreso when the pilot wound comes from a random ack burst.
*Insert sounds of chest thumping and Tarzan yells.*
Just can't help yourself, can ya'?
That said your argument contains an obvious logical fallacy. A higher rate of pilot wounds as a result of airplane type or attack technique (or any other relevant variable) could negatively impact kills/hour. More data needed to compare apples to apples.
The glass stopping the round scenario is a valid point. Its likely a side effect of art work though, not coding. It is probably INTEMDED to be a PW but isn't rendered properly.
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That said your argument contains an obvious logical fallacy. A higher rate of pilot wounds as a result of airplane type or attack technique (or any other relevant variable) could negatively impact kills/hour. More data needed to compare apples to apples.
It doesn't contain a fallacy because plane type was not a premise in the original argument/thread topic, which is what I'm supporting. Your position would then become not that my post is flawed, but rather the original premise, which is something you should address with DREDIOCK.
Further, pilot wounding affecting kill rates is irrelevant to my post because the person that I responded to stated they were not pilot wounded whatsoever, ergo pilot wounding could not have affected the comparison. If I was pilot wounded, it only reaffirms my position that with more fights (larger sample size), pilot wounding shows to be frequent.
That being said, I had already checked the plane types beforehand. His primary aircraft is the P-51D, followed by the F4U series. I have more kills in both over the same timeframes, so I can legitimately make a direct comparison.
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It doesn't contain a fallacy because plane type was not a premise in the original argument.
That being said, I already checked the plane types. His primary aircraft are the P-51D, followed by the F4U series. I have more kills in both over the same timeframes.
Irrelevant. (There are far more variables than kills/hour or hours flown. These variables, which can increase the rate of PW--which itself can impact K/H--makes a lower K/H a potential RESULT and thus useless/irrelevant without more data.)
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Well thats your biggest mistake, comparing this to real life pilot reports. You do know this is a game, and being so HTC has made many concessions to make it play like a game. Not to put words in HTC mouth but maybe they modeled the pilot wound to compensate for something else. Ask them.... in an email, they rarely answer here.
If you want real life, join the air force.
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Real world fighter also pilots didn't got shot down or had to crash land in 70% of their sorties, nor did they got a kill in 57% of them as the AH fighter pilots did last tour.
In here, we have on average 3.4 kills (and even more deaths) per hour. The AH fighter pilots flies in a extremely combat heavy environment, flies totally reckless for the most part and get's way more shot at (and hit!) than any real life counterpart.
Persoonally I'd estimate I get like 1 PW for every 4-5 deaths I suffer in fighters. Maybe I'll keep a list over the next days... :old:
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Ouch...
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After watching a few of Skyyr's films I think I can solve the problem for him.. Less HO's = Less PW's.
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:airplane: Don't have any facts to back me up on this, but I would venture a guess that in a fighter, less than 2 or 3 % of fighter sorties had pilot wounds! Ever see any films of figher sorties ending with oil all over windshield? I haven't and I bet I have seen most of them over the years. An engine hit doesn't always cover the windshield with oil.
The same cannot be said of the bomber crews, as if they were attacked and did manage to get home, some of the crew was wounded most times, sometimes pilot and co-pilot, but I bet the times that both were wounded would also be very little. Something is wrong with the "box" as some have called it, but don't know anything can be done about it.
One that gets me is when a LA7 rams me from front and I am in a jug and he flies off, not even smoking and I have oil all over windshield and 1/2 of a wing gone! I also agree with the "6" shot when in a jug! The thing had armor plating a 1/2 inch thick! Deflection shots from 10-2-4-6 relative, OK, but straight on and straight "6" shots, I don't think so!!
You mean like this?
(http://i.imgur.com/cE4hbmc.jpg)
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So for the purposes of discussion, I logged my stats for last night:
Time flown: 01:30:00 (one hour, thirty minutes)
Sorties: 10
Kills: 30
Deaths: 6
Fights (opponents encountered, kills+deaths): 36
Pilot wounds: 4
Pilot wounds from AA/ack: No
Aircraft flown
Sortie 1: P-47M
Fights: 1
PW's: No
Sortie 2: LA-7
Fights: 3
PW's: No
Sorties 3-10: Ta-152H
Fights: 32
PW's: 4
Of those pilot wounds, almost all shots were dead-6 shots. The one exception is a single HO (that was initiated by the thread starter, no less :P). So from that sample size, we have a 1 in 9 chance of pilot wounding. Somewhat lower than what I "feel" is normal, yet still higher than the 1/20 and even the 1/10 percentages we've discussed previously.
I'll try to keep a running tally once I have a larger sample size.
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I find that I seem to only get pilot wounded when someone shoots the general area of my cockpit.
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After watching a few of Skyyr's films I think I can solve the problem for him.. Less HO's = Less PW's.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/82/c3/91/82c391890ff95ce9e42e56fbc4c95159.jpg)
:lol :aok
Even if the data you based your premise on was true, and not mearly a thinly veiled personal shot, your statement makes very little sense given my own experience.
For me, the vast majority of PW's tend to come the side or behind (the 3 to 9 o'clock arc) or from shots ABOVE my cockpit. I can't remember the last time I had a pw from a HO.
I have always figured this was intentionally modeled based on real world conditions. You know....the thousand odd pounds of metal and machinery (i.e. the "engine") most WWII warbirds have in front of the pilot/cockpit acting as a shield? But that's just a guess.
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Radiator hits are more annoying.
What's that? Radial engine's FTW
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So for the purposes of discussion, I logged my stats for last night:
Sorties 3-10: Ta-152H
Fights: 32
PW's: 4
Then maybe it is something you are doing wrong. The TA152 is the aircraft I fly the most and I have no where near those kind of PW's from it.
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Then maybe it is something you are doing wrong. The TA152 is the aircraft I fly the most and I have no where near those kind of PW's from it.
I pretty much only fly the 152 and it seems like pws from bombers get me more then other planes...
Keyword being 'seems'
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I have flown the TA-152 at least 2 times in the last 2 years and I never got a PW while flying it.
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So for the purposes of discussion, I logged my stats for last night:
Time flown: 01:30:00 (one hour, thirty minutes)
Sorties: 10
Kills: 30
Deaths: 6
Fights (opponents encountered, kills+deaths): 36
Pilot wounds: 4
Pilot wounds from AA/ack: No
Aircraft flown
Sortie 1: P-47M
Fights: 1
PW's: No
Sortie 2: LA-7
Fights: 3
PW's: No
Sorties 3-10: Ta-152H
Fights: 32
PW's: 4
Of those pilot wounds, almost all shots were dead-6 shots. The one exception is a single HO (that was initiated by the thread starter, no less :P). So from that sample size, we have a 1 in 9 chance of pilot wounding. Somewhat lower than what I "feel" is normal, yet still higher than the 1/20 and even the 1/10 percentages we've discussed previously.
I'll try to keep a running tally once I have a larger sample size.
TY for publishing your stats. Everyone is now more knowledgeable of your comings and goings. Keep up the good work.
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TY for publishing your stats. Everyone is now more knowledgeable of your comings and goings. Keep up the good work.
The goal wasn't to publish stats; rather, it was to provide contextual data to support the frequency of pilot wounds. :salute
Then maybe it is something you are doing wrong. The TA152 is the aircraft I fly the most and I have no where near those kind of PW's from it.
Might I be? Perhaps some DA time 1v1 is in order. I welcome the chance to see any mistakes pointed out in my favorite aircraft. :salute
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TY for publishing your stats. Everyone is now more knowledgeable of your comings and goings. Keep up the good work.
That was the only reason they were posted.
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I suppose good record keeping and an attempt to statistically analyze data is frowned upon. Oh well.
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I suppose good record keeping and an attempt to statistically analyze data is frowned upon. Oh well.
Baghdad Fulcrum with the spin. :aok
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I suppose good record keeping and an attempt to statistically analyze data is frowned upon. Oh well.
Please posts your stats from last night if you had any PWs. It will be helpful
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Please posts your stats from last night if you had any PWs. It will be helpful
I did not have any, or I would.
Would you like to contribute something useful to the conversation?
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I did not have any, or I would.
Would you like to contribute something useful to the conversation?
I thought that was what I was doing! :)
Forgive me; I have received many PWs in my P-47, armored as it were.
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Might I be? Perhaps some DA time 1v1 is in order. I welcome the chance to see any mistakes pointed out in my favorite aircraft. :salute
Will that somehow prove that it takes too many PW's ?
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I did not have any, or I would.
Would you like to contribute something useful to the conversation?
How many missions? How many engagements?
And of course, do let us know your kill ratio and rate. That's so relevant.
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Will that somehow prove that it takes too many PW's ?
:rofl
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Will that somehow prove that it takes too many PW's ?
If I'm doing something wrong, it would be obvious (especially with no outside variables tainting your observation), would it not?
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If I'm doing something wrong, it would be obvious (especially with no outside variables tainting your observation), would it not?
We don't need a ruler battle to make the point that the PW model is screwy. And we sure don't need your K/D ratio and K/H rate. But by all means indulge yourself.
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We don't need a ruler battle to make the point that the PW model is screwy. And we sure don't need your K/D ratio and K/H rate. But by all means indulge yourself.
I haven't posted a K/D ratio, sir.
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I haven't posted a K/D ratio, sir.
Really?
So for the purposes of discussion, I logged my stats for last night:
Time flown: 01:30:00 (one hour, thirty minutes)
Sorties: 10
Kills: 30
Deaths: 6
Fights (opponents encountered, kills+deaths): 36
Pilot wounds: 4
Pilot wounds from AA/ack: No
Aircraft flown
Sortie 1: P-47M
Fights: 1
PW's: No
Sortie 2: LA-7
Fights: 3
PW's: No
Sorties 3-10: Ta-152H
Fights: 32
PW's: 4
Of those pilot wounds, almost all shots were dead-6 shots. The one exception is a single HO (that was initiated by the thread starter, no less :P). So from that sample size, we have a 1 in 9 chance of pilot wounding. Somewhat lower than what I "feel" is normal, yet still higher than the 1/20 and even the 1/10 percentages we've discussed previously.
I'll try to keep a running tally once I have a larger sample size.
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Really?
As stated, what you quoted is not a ratio. You could calculate the ratio from that (if you were bored and just wanted to), but it's not a ratio nor did I supply one. You were saying, sir?
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Frankly, I'm too lazy to read all these posts but I have a question. Would you rather have PW or insta death? I'm almost thinking I would rather have Insta Death, but can't really say.
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As stated, what you quoted is not a ratio. You could calculate the ratio from that (if you were bored and just wanted to), but it's not a ratio nor did I supply one. You were saying, sir?
Your spin is worse than Fulcrum's.
You know what you did, "sir".
Just can't help yourself, can ya'?
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Frankly, I'm too lazy to read all these posts but I have a question. Would you rather have PW or insta death? I'm almost thinking I would rather have Insta Death, but can't really say.
Depends on the rate.
If the rate of insta-death is the same as the current PW then no thanks.
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Your spin is worse than Fulcrum's.
You know what you did, "sir".
Just can't help yourself, can ya'?
There's no spin. You said I posted a ratio; I proved I did not, sir.
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Frankly, I'm too lazy to read all these posts but I have a question. Would you rather have PW or insta death? I'm almost thinking I would rather have Insta Death, but can't really say.
I'd rather have insta-death, because it would show how frequent pilot hits are and, hopefully, subsequently be reduced after enough people vocalize it.
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There's no spin. You said I posted a ratio; I proved I did not, sir.
:rofl
30:6
Your kill total IN PARTICULAR was not needed. Totally irrelevant chest thumping. "Look at me. I am Skyyr."
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I'd rather have insta-death, because it would show how frequent pilot hits are and, hopefully, subsequently be reduced after enough people vocalize it.
This is an argument I can agree with. Except that it will not be changed. Complaints won't matter.
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Your spin is worse than Fulcrum's.
You know what you did, "sir".
Just can't help yourself, can ya'?
There was no spin involved.
At this point I think any post from a member of your former squad would spark a negative post from you.
Thanks for your contribution.
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I thought that was what I was doing! :)
Forgive me; I have received many PWs in my P-47, armored as it were.
Thank you for your contribution as well.
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There was no spin involved.
At this point I think any post from a member of your former squad would spark a negative post from you.
Thanks for your contribution.
Yes, that's why it is my former squad, thankfully. You guys are never on the level. There is always an ulterior motive.
Grow up.
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Yes, that's why it is my former squad, thankfully. You guys are never on the level. There is always an ulterior motive.
Grow up.
:lol
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(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/82/c3/91/82c391890ff95ce9e42e56fbc4c95159.jpg)
:lol :aok
Even if the data you based your premise on was true, and not mearly a thinly veiled personal shot, your statement makes very little sense given my own experience.
For me, the vast majority of PW's tend to come the side or behind (the 3 to 9 o'clock arc) or from shots ABOVE my cockpit. I can't remember the last time I had a pw from a HO.
I have always figured this was intentionally modeled based on real world conditions. You know....the thousand odd pounds of metal and machinery (i.e. the "engine") most WWII warbirds have in front of the pilot/cockpit acting as a shield? But that's just a guess.
Not the brightest bulb on the tree are you ? In order to HO you must place your plane in the opponent's flight path, and therefore IN THEIR SIGHTS. here's a news flash genius.. if you are in their sights your chances of getting hit greatly improve ! and you could have the engine of a mack truck in front of you, that does nothing for the thin piece of glass that exposes your head and shoulders. out of the 150+ bullets streaming out of the plane closing on you,,, there's a pretty good chance atleast 1 will find it's way into the cockpit. And the data I base my premise on is HIS films. of the 5 or so I watched, mostly him in a 190, it was the same everytime.. Extend and climb, turn and come down on the opponent head on firing all guns. the only thing that semi impressed me was his aim.
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:rofl
30:6
Your kill total IN PARTICULAR was not needed. Totally irrelevant chest thumping. "Look at me. I am Skyyr."
5:1 (Cause '30:6' just bugs me.)
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Not the brightest bulb on the tree are you ? In order to HO you must place your plane in the opponent's flight path, and therefore IN THEIR SIGHTS. here's a news flash genius.. if you are in their sights your chances of getting hit greatly improve ! and you could have the engine of a mack truck in front of you, that does nothing for the thin piece of glass that exposes your head and shoulders. out of the 150+ bullets streaming out of the plane closing on you,,, there's a pretty good chance atleast 1 will find it's way into the cockpit. And the data I base my premise on is HIS films. of the 5 or so I watched, mostly him in a 190, it was the same everytime.. Extend and climb, turn and come down on the opponent head on firing all guns. the only thing that semi impressed me was his aim.
The "glass" directly in front of the pilot was typically inches thick and solidly bulletproof (or heavily bullet resistant). This, combined with the engine, meant that the front of the aircraft was heavily armored, especially so on 190's (which is why they were commonly known to use head-on firing passes). Not only was it thick, but it was STEEPLY sloped and bullets that impacted it tended to be deflected instead of absorbed.
See here for an idea of the thickness of 190 glass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7nLTeNStX8
Also, I rarely ever take true head-on passes. You'll find I take frequently take front-quarter shots, but the opponent does not have a guns solution.
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I'd rather have insta-death, because it would show how frequent pilot hits are and, hopefully, subsequently be reduced after enough people vocalize it.
I doubt it. As I said earlier, it may have been set that way to work with some other game function/setting. As Lusche said the numbers show that everyone has a much greater chance at taking more hits as that IS a game function.
Also, "dead is dead" whether it's because you took one to the head and died instantly, got a pilot wound and bleed out, or lost a wing and crashed into the terrain. You just click on the button to roll another plane.
Now if your worried about score and ranking, HTC will NEVER change it. It was built as it was and as it is the same for everyone it will keep the numbers true, as designed.... for game play.
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5:1 (Cause '30:6' just bugs me.)
*shrug*
Math isn't his strong suit.
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So for the purposes of discussion, I logged my stats for last night:
Time flown: 01:30:00 (one hour, thirty minutes)
Sorties: 10
Kills: 30
Deaths: 6
Fights (opponents encountered, kills+deaths): 36
Pilot wounds: 4
Pilot wounds from AA/ack: No
Aircraft flown
Sortie 1: P-47M
Fights: 1
PW's: No
Sortie 2: LA-7
Fights: 3
PW's: No
Sorties 3-10: Ta-152H
Fights: 32
PW's: 4
Of those pilot wounds, almost all shots were dead-6 shots. The one exception is a single HO (that was initiated by the thread starter, no less :P). So from that sample size, we have a 1 in 9 chance of pilot wounding. Somewhat lower than what I "feel" is normal, yet still higher than the 1/20 and even the 1/10 percentages we've discussed previously.
I'll try to keep a running tally once I have a larger sample size.
That was my last flight of the night.. I knew it was you And knowing you dont hessitate to HO and given the way we were being ganged ( I didnt have a single flight that didnt end up at least a 3V1 in your countries favor) I saw no reason to not take the shot particularly knowing you were going to take the shot anyway (which you started firing the same time I did) and I didnt have the E build up to maneuver since I just came out of a fight.
There are instances where I condone HOing. Just that a pure 1V1 isnt one of them
But inasmuch as this isnt a thread about HOing. I digress. Of the first 5 sorties I had last night. I ended up with 3 pilot wounds. One from 1,000 out from british bbs from someone on my dead 6. Which to me are the most infuriating inasmuch as the 190 had a 13 mm plate to protect head and shoulders of the pilot
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/580420_410986172287966_1521438881_n.jpg?oh=9460963ce96d75419b3e69e2787e1a61&oe=54ADBC6F)
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Also, I rarely ever take true head-on passes. You'll find I take frequently take front-quarter shots, but the opponent does not have a guns solution.
I've been Hoed by you on numerous occasions
You're cutting that margin of "Front quarter shots" awful thin aint ya?
Example. Last night it was close enough of a HO for us to collide. Cost me a wingtip.
Trust me dude. You dont shy away from taking a HO shot and most of your front quarter shots are only because your opponent. Or me in particular tried to veer out of the way creating a quarter shot as opposed to a true HO. Last night I didnt turn away as I normally would. And you didnt jink either
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I've been Hoed by you on numerous occasions
You're cutting that margin of "Front quarter shots" awful thin aint ya?
Example. Last night it was close enough of a HO for us to collide. Cost me a wingtip.
Trust me dude. You dont shy away from taking a HO shot and most of your front quarter shots are only because your opponent. Or me in particular tried to veer out of the way creating a quarter shot as opposed to a true HO. Last night I didnt turn away as I normally would. And you didnt jink either
I cut it VERY close, but I also rarely get hit and miss even less so. When you win 90-some-odd % of front-quarter shots with regularity, it's probably not HO'ing.
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*shrug*
Math isn't his strong suit.
Stalking is yours though. Along with spin. :rofl
(Just kiddin' dude.)
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Also, I rarely ever take true head-on passes. You'll find I take frequently take front-quarter shots, but the opponent does not have a guns solution.
A ho, is a ho, is a ho.
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Stalking is yours though. Along with spin. :rofl
(Just kiddin' dude.)
I don't take it that way.
I could care less about the Baghdad Fulcrum spinning stuff. I actually get a laugh out of that even if it's not completely accurate. But the other garbage is just that.... garbage. Leave it out of the discussion.
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I cut it VERY close, but I also rarely get hit and miss even less so. When you win 90-some-odd % of front-quarter shots with regularity, it's probably not HO'ing.
LMAO
I think by most peoples definition of a HO in this game. "VERY close" is a ho. A HO isnt necessarily a zero degree angle to one another If it were each HO pass would end up with folks in each others cockpits each time every time.
but again. Tis wasnt suppossed to be thread about Hoing. OR what a HO is or isnt. It has to do with PWs and the absurdity of some of them.
I got lucky last night. 1 PW for the night.
Damn near felt like I won the lottery
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Ahhh the HO debate.
My position on this has never changed and never will. IF you are in my gun sights I WILL fire. If you are going away from me I am some kind of fighter combat hero, heading towards me I am some kind of fighter combat villain!! I see no difference - my guns point at your plane - automatic reaction to pull trigger.
Now of course there is a risk / reward factor in this. If you are in a cannon equipped plane and I am in my P51 - I am not going to go for this. It is 50 / 50 at best, against canon planes it is more likely 80/20 in their favour. HOWEVER, I can usually (90%) of the time make a call to avoid the HO way before the enemy is within guns range. The only time that is not true is in gang bang fights - and yes, HO is essential - take every shot you can.
So, to HO or not to HO - you call it. If I think I have a better than 50/50 I WILL take the HO - It is a scoring shot and that is what we are here for. The 'dance' is a nice bonus but the kill is what we must strive for before all other goals.
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If you are in a cannon equipped plane and I am in my P51 - I am not going to go for this.
You would be surprised how many P51 pilots will go for it. It never ceases to amaze me.
Anyway, back to OP off topic....I agree with DREDIOCK. Too many PW! Boo! :old: ;)
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the kill is what we must strive for before all other goals.
And here is where reasonable minds can differ.
- oldman
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I so love purse fights... :popcorn
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I so love purse fights... :popcorn
:lawnchair
I'll take a break and watch as well :D
Can I have some Popcorn?
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:lawnchair
I'll take a break and watch as well :D
Can I have some Popcorn?
<passes Fulcrum popcorn>
<steals lawnchair>
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:huh
:confused:
:(
:cry
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And here is where reasonable minds can differ.
- oldman
I agreed oldman, the "dance" is more important the the kill. I have thousands and thousands of kills, but remember very few of them, but the fights..... ahhhh those I remember very well.
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Why ho someone and risk damage to your plane when you can beat them with other methods. Would rather rely on skill then luck.
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Why ho someone and risk damage to your plane when you can beat them with other methods. Would rather rely on skill then luck.
While I agree with you in principle of relying on skill over luck, consistently outgunning your opponent is a skill, and one most people don't understand the tactical value of. Players don't like it because when you have an opponent who is a better shot and is willing to take front-quarter shots, there's no maneuver that's safe to perform.
It's harder to learn how to shoot well than it is to fly well.
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While I agree with you in principle of relying on skill over luck, consistently outgunning your opponent is a skill, and one most people don't understand the tactical value of. Players don't like it because when you have an opponent who is a better shot and is willing to take front-quarter shots, there's no maneuver that's safe to perform.
It's harder to learn how to shoot well than it is to fly well.
Do you think people here undervalue accurate gunnery in AH? I disagree with your assessment. It takes a helluva lot of practice and some people just come by this skill naturally. I push my guys to practice gunnery drills constantly - like a broken record.
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Do you think people here undervalue accurate gunnery in AH?
In general, yes. They tend to separate shooting and flying, without understanding they both rely on the other and are intimately continuous extensions of each other. The AH community tends to view these two aspects as separate topics.
The statements "Oh, he can fly well, he just couldn't kill his opponent fast enough" and "He's not a great pilot, but he's a good shot" come up repeatedly in AH. And that's fine, because the longer people hold this view, the longer they stunt their growth and remain easy targets.
I disagree with your assessment. It takes a helluva lot of practice and some people just come by this skill naturally. I push my guys to practice gunnery drills constantly - like a broken record.
You disagree with which assessment? That the average pilot doesn't understand the tactical value of gunnery? I can guarantee you that as long as the term "HO" remains in use, and arguments along the lines of "I can fly well but not shoot well" come up, then the populace at large does not understand it.
Shooting skills don't really come to people naturally. What can come naturally is the ability to abstract and mentally picture objects in how they relate to each other. That's not a shooting skill, it's mental perception (as a random sidenote, the military tests and scores this ability as part of the ASVAB as well as on other tests). When a person or player realizes that this is what shooting is, then the problem is solved.
If you do see the value in it, that puts you in the minority.
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In general, yes. They tend to separate shooting and flying, without understanding they both rely on the other and are intimately continuous extensions of each other. The AH community tends to view these two aspects as separate topics.
The statements "Oh, he can fly well, he just couldn't kill his opponent fast enough" and "He's not a great pilot, but he's a good shot" come up repeatedly in AH. And that's fine, because the longer people hold this view, the longer they stunt their growth and remain easy targets.
You disagree with which assessment? That the average pilot doesn't understand the tactical value of gunnery? I can guarantee you that as long as the term "HO" remains in use, and the argument of "I can fly well but not shoot well" come up, then the populace at large does not understand it.
Shooting skills don't really come to people naturally. What can come naturally is the ability to abstract and mentally picture objects in how they relate to each other. That's not a shooting skill, it's mental perception (as a random sidenote, the military tests and scores this ability as part of the ASVAB as well as on other tests). When a person or player realizes that this is what shooting is, then the problem is solved.
If you do see the value in it, that puts you in the minority.
Good gunnery inherently equals more success. AH tracks it for the player to gauge. If I am understanding you correctly, you think the AH population (pilots) do not value good gunnery. I think you are wrong. I am NOT saying they will do anything about it.
Yes, it's true that there are people that have a natural ability to measure the correct amount of lead for a deflection shot. I am one of them. I didn't have to practice - my father took me bird hunting when I was a little guy and I continually out-shot a lot of the adults in our group. I could simply see the shot as it developed. I am certain I am not the only person in the world that has this ability. Robert S. Johnson was another and he states as much in his book Thunderbolt
Too many people I have interacted with in AH have stated they "wished they had better gunnery" which leads me to state the majority understands. Again, I am not saying they will take the effort to help themselves, which is why I disagree with you.
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Good gunnery inherently equals more success. AH tracks it for the player to gauge. If I am understanding you correctly, you think the AH population (pilots) do not value good gunnery. I think you are wrong. I am NOT saying they will do anything about it.
Yes, it's true that there are people that have a natural ability to measure the correct amount of lead for a deflection shot. I am one of them. I didn't have to practice - my father took me bird hunting when I was a little guy and I continually out-shot a lot of the adults in our group. I could simply see the shot as it developed. I am certain I am not the only person in the world that has this ability. Robert S. Johnson was another and he states as much in his book Thunderbolt
Too many people I have interacted with in AH have stated they "wished they had better gunnery" which leads me to state the majority understands. Again, I am not saying they will take the effort to help themselves, which is why I disagree with you.
I see your point, but I think you misunderstand mine. I think everyone wants to be a better shot. However, most people view shooting as a separate skill and they treat it as a separate skill, when in fact it's just as much a part of ACM as turning is. This is the flaw, they see it as a skill outside of ACM and not something that directly affects the tactics. They don't understand is that shooting skills directly allow for use of certain tactics that would otherwise not be effective without them. As simple as it sounds, this mindset alone is enough to prevent pilot growth.
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I agreed oldman, the "dance" is more important the the kill.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/228/2/1/cutie_jackson_by_djlancegirl-d6iggl6.gif)
"Hell....dyin' don't matter, son. Just make sure ya LOOK GOOD while doin' it!"
Quote attributed to Warmaster Debrody - Tour 157, Battle of Airfield 173
:lol :aok
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Gunnery and ACM are completely separate skill-sets, although they combine (along with SA) for a "whole tool-belt". Maybe you are not articulating your point well.
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I see what Skyyr is trying to say but I believe he is wrong. Shooting is not under the ACM subject, they are completely different.
What's part of ACM is being able to gain a shot on your opponent, not just shooting, period.
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Your highest percentage chance of hitting another fighter in our game is from the front quarter. Essentially shooting every time you and your con are starting to face each other. High, low, or oblique. It doesn't matter as long as it's in that front quarter cone. Why, because your con is shortening your distance while passing very close to you. You help yourself by turning off your tracers to remove any "tell" for him to know something is up and jink off your aim path.
If you don't have any ingrained issues with the game negative morality idea of the "HO" many of us struggle with. This makes you almost unbeatable because it negates ACM at the start. But, if it ever became the SOP all the time in our game, why bother to play the game if your choices are, get towered off the merge or spend the whole night chasing the tail end of a ghost. Imagine Aces High 3. HO everything you see and do nothing else for your $14.95 in eye blistering graphics.
I suppose I could come up with a front quarter HOing gunsight that is almost point and click. Messiah beta tested my acm gunsights Gen1-Gen8 until I stopped working on them. I stopped needing the hand holding guides I built into the reticles to make deflection shots after all the testing I did to make sure they worked. Kinda sounds like practice works don't it. Look at Messiah's kill strings after testing 8 generations for me. And he has his tracers off and sometimes doesn't use any reticle. I think semp is still using one of those from when I asked him to beta test for me.
Deflection shooting from 5-90 degrees off your line of travel is one of the hardest skills to master in our game. Even with the ww2 manuals I include in my Historic Pack. Many still struggle with the concepts and the practical application in the game. Front quarter cone shooting on the merge is very easy to master for a small amount of practice time compared to deflection shooting. Just about everyone holds a straight easy course for you to track. Most players simply don't aim short enough and end up shooting high and past their on coming con.
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We talk about how small a percentage of PW were in combat... Are you taking US figures or taking both US and German and Soviet Figures... That makes a World of a difference. Also the style of flying.
Do you roll your belly to the enemy when he is going to have a side profile shot on your canopy...
Is he coming in from a High six shot or a low six shot.... One thing you will notice if you shoot a vehicle with 30-06 is how much the bullets ricochet around in it before they exit. A bullet might have enough energy to penetrate the cockpit but now enough to hit thus ricocheting around in the cockpit.
Find the 38 is what I get the most PW in. But that is a glass bubble all the way around. Yes the 190d I get pilot wounds in but rarely dead six shots. Normally I am ruddering around when I get hit. The best way to test is to get a Jeep and a 190 out on the runway shoot single rounds at differnent places on the cockpit and see what happens. That is the only way to test and see if PW are OP before stating it for a fact...
If you think it is the .303 that are doing it try with a lvt using the .30 weapons. back off to the distances you want to try. 0m, 200m 400m 600m 800m and come back and tell us and bring film along to prove your point., That is the only way you will get HTC to change it is by bringing proof of facts to the table not opinions.
Because right now there is no factual proof. All there is opinionated proof.
I am curious. Please try!!
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Skyyr is tough in the air, he's like a monkey that just latches on to you.. :) straight up
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I agreed oldman, the "dance" is more important the the kill. I have thousands and thousands of kills, but remember very few of them, but the fights..... ahhhh those I remember very well.
Absolutely, utterly, completely, totally this^^^^