Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Flyboy on February 14, 2015, 05:17:33 AM

Title: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Flyboy on February 14, 2015, 05:17:33 AM
Hi,

the planes\vehicles\boat tab and the AHwiki tab doesnt work for me in the HTC site
how can i compare level speeds, acceleration, climb rate atc?
also find turn rate and radius, best sustaind turn speed, best climb speed and so on...

?
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: The Fugitive on February 14, 2015, 08:51:08 AM
the AHwiki is down for some maintenance. This site

http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

has a good setup with some great info. It is old so it doesn't have all the planes in AH but its a good place to start.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 14, 2015, 12:27:40 PM
Hi,

the planes\vehicles\boat tab and the AHwiki tab doesnt work for me in the HTC site
how can i compare level speeds, acceleration, climb rate atc?
also find turn rate and radius, best sustaind turn speed, best climb speed and so on...

?

Look on the main page for plane performance under game info.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/gameinfo/plane-performance

You can see the same charts in game in the hanger where they also show the tested weights.

On the site Fugi linked the aircraft are tested with 25% fuel at sea level. Performance will be a little different at higher weights and altitudes.

It's best to do your own turn testing since you also want to know the effect of different flap extensions.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Flyboy on February 14, 2015, 01:13:56 PM
thanks alot for the link! very helpfull!
what is missing for me is the speeds in which the climb and turn radius tests where made. any ideas on how to find out?
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 14, 2015, 01:24:20 PM
The easy way to see climb rate is with the auto-speed command, Alt-X, which defaults to your best climb speed. This will show your climb rate at your current weight.  Climb rate is close enough to acceleration performance that you don't need to test both.

The easy way to compare turn performance is to test how much g load you can pull at a given speed like 200 mph, or how fast you have to be to hold 3g in a level turn. Higher g at 200 is a faster tighter turn. Lower speed at 3g is a faster tighter turn. G load is shown on your accelerometer. For turn radius you'll have to do a little math or use the site Fugi linked.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 15, 2015, 01:08:46 PM
Heya Flyboy, here is a "still working link" to Badboy's Bootstrap Calculator for AH

http://www.leonbadboysmith.com/Files/AH_BootStrap.zip


several other links to other versions have recently been taken down....... as most of his pics/diagrams......

so grab it while you can

check this help and training thread out....... think this is some of the stuff you are looking for

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,338111.0.html


hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Flyboy on February 15, 2015, 02:50:36 PM
that's an excellent tool TC, thanks alot!
unfortunately i cant run any tests yet, but i already have in my mind a few things  to try out...

is there a source that concentrate in a chart the best speeds for max or sustained turns?
for example: the P40e at sea level, 50%fuel - best sustained turn 10deg'\sec at 270mph, best max turn 17deg\sec at 350mph (this is fictional of course)
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 15, 2015, 03:07:04 PM
that's an excellent tool TC, thanks alot!
unfortunately i cant run any tests yet, but i already have in my mind a few things  to try out...

is there a source that concentrate in a chart the best speeds for max or sustained turns?
for example: the P40e at sea level, 50%fuel - best sustained turn 10deg'\sec at 270mph, best max turn 17deg\sec at 350mph (this is fictional of course)


actually, m00t, murdr, Spatula, Lusche, Badboy and some of us others was working on a big ol spreadsheet showing a good big bit of info for all planes, including corner speed, sustained or instantaneous turn speed/turning at different notch of flap settings, etc...... a several years ago, I still have the google grp data saved in MS Excel somewhere on my home server......

is quite interesting across the many different plane types


TC
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 15, 2015, 03:08:12 PM
The P-40E is closer to 19 degrees per second sustained turn at 153 mph and 32 degrees per second instantaneous turn at 234 mph at sea level with 25% fuel. Heavier and higher will reduce performance. As soon as you are fast enough to pull to blackout you have hit your limit for max g load, any faster speed will increase your turn radius and reduce your turn rate.

An additional benefit of doing your own testing is it increases your ability to fly max turn rates.

Keep in mind you're unlikely to be looking at speed and g during a fight.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: The Fugitive on February 15, 2015, 04:03:15 PM
actually, m00t, murdr, Spatula, Lusche, Badboy and some of us others was working on a big ol spreadsheet showing a good big bit of info for all planes, including corner speed, sustained or instantaneous turn speed/turning at different notch of flap settings, etc...... a several years ago, I still have the google grp data saved in MS Excel somewhere on my home server......

is quite interesting across the many different plane types


TC

Is this the one your talking about TC?

http://www.jcsautomation.com/AH_View_Planes.asp
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 15, 2015, 06:16:28 PM
TC is referring to a spreadsheet made with Badboy 's calculator showing sustained and instantaneous turn rates. The copy I have has a limited plane set tested at 25% fuel at sea level.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Randy1 on February 16, 2015, 11:05:51 AM

Still, in all of this, developing an eye for "E" is the key.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 16, 2015, 12:05:06 PM
Still, in all of this, developing an eye for "E" is the key.

How does that tell you max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates?

Isn't knowing the performance numbers the key to evaluating comparative energy states?
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Randy1 on February 16, 2015, 03:20:57 PM
How does that tell you max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates?

Isn't knowing the performance numbers the key to evaluating comparative energy states?

Don't get me wrong.  Plane knowledge is very important .   The "E" eye tells you what to do and when.

Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 16, 2015, 03:37:06 PM
Don't get me wrong.  Plane knowledge is very important .   The "E" eye tells you what to do and when.

Since E is speed and/or altitude the bandit's E state is usually pretty obvious excepting the same altitude head on merge.
That's when a vertical maneuver on the merge can help to determine the bandit's E state.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: The Fugitive on February 17, 2015, 04:38:24 PM
How does that tell you max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates?

Isn't knowing the performance numbers the key to evaluating comparative energy states?

You can let a simple answer be can you? I'd bet three quarters of the players couldn't name the max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates of their favorite plane.

To a large percentage of the players your answers are so far over their heads that it is just jibberish. To most players "left back on the joystick, right rudder when slow and nose up" is all the answer they want. They don't care about the "why's" of it, they just want to be able to do it. Most players as it is just pull the nose around as hard as they can and yank on the trigger when the icon goes from 1K to 1000 and don't let up until they pass/blow up/die.

Simple answers are ok to, baby steps.

If someone asks for more info, by all means dazzle away.
 
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 17, 2015, 05:53:42 PM
You can let a simple answer be can you? I'd bet three quarters of the players couldn't name the max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates of their favorite plane.

To a large percentage of the players your answers are so far over their heads that it is just jibberish. To most players "left back on the joystick, right rudder when slow and nose up" is all the answer they want. They don't care about the "why's" of it, they just want to be able to do it. Most players as it is just pull the nose around as hard as they can and yank on the trigger when the icon goes from 1K to 1000 and don't let up until they pass/blow up/die.

Simple answers are ok to, baby steps.

If someone asks for more info, by all means dazzle away.

If you don't post BS in help and training I probably won't hurt your feelings. When you stick to what you know you can be helpful.

I admire Randy1 's willingness to learn, his ability to take constructive criticism, and his desire to help others so I help him as much as I can.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: -pjk-- on February 17, 2015, 06:16:22 PM
In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  :uhoh asking plane performance todays AH  :D

I might lose issue of your posting Fugi, but might be language problem in my sight...  :angel:
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: The Fugitive on February 17, 2015, 09:13:41 PM
In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  :uhoh asking plane performance todays AH  :D

I might lose issue of your posting Fugi, but might be language problem in my sight...  :angel:

I apologize. Randy1 made a good point for what it was worth, a certain "Mr Know-it-all" HAD to chime in. His holyer than tho attitude pushes me over the edge as it seems, to him, no one else can make a correct answer. I have fixed the issue and can affirm the "Ignore" feature works on these new boards and I should have no more issues.

I hope the links provided help knock the rust off Flyboy, Welcome back!
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 17, 2015, 10:15:11 PM
In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  :uhoh asking plane performance todays AH  :D

I didn't think I needed to explain turning to Flyboy but other people read these posts so I often include extra explanations.  :lol
Some people have been here 10 years without learning the basics.   :D
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Oldman731 on February 17, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
Some people have been here 10 years without learning the basics. 




* raises hand *


Sometimes even longer.


- oldman
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 17, 2015, 10:40:17 PM



* raises hand *


Sometimes even longer.


- oldman

Training is available.  :D
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Badboy on February 18, 2015, 05:29:48 PM
several other links to other versions have recently been taken down....... as most of his pics/diagrams......

Hi TC,

Nothing on the public forums has been taken down, at least not intentionally.

However, some of the links to the bootstrap calculator may not work if they pointed to out of date versions.

Regards

Badboy

Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Badboy on February 18, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
Still, in all of this, developing an eye for "E" is the key.

Yep, and the visual acuity of that eye can be greatly increased when you know exactly what you are looking for. Developing an eye for "E" is important, but only part of the story. It won't do you much good without the knowledge of how that "E" influences your manoeuvrability relative to other aircraft and without the flying skills and command of BFM needed to pull it all together into appropriate action. No one thing is key, it's more like a lot of little keys :)

Badboy
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Badboy on February 18, 2015, 06:32:05 PM
what is missing for me is the speeds in which the climb and turn radius tests where made. any ideas on how to find out?

Hi Flyboy

The bootstrap calculator contains a .pdf file that explains the testing methodology so you can acquire your own data, but a huge amount of data has already been collected and presented by MOSQ in his Sustained turn list which can be downloaded here: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=4F7912F19B484B3B!725&authkey=!AH41epN2ncdKKcg

If you would like to learn more about the topic try this link: http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html)

Hope that helps.

Badboy
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 18, 2015, 11:00:26 PM
Thanks for the links Badboy. I forgot about that list.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Badboy on February 19, 2015, 04:38:57 AM
Thanks for the links Badboy. I forgot about that list.

No problem, you are doing an outstanding job supporting the community with valuable help and information. A highly commendable endeavor that I am sure is greatly appreciated by everyone who comes here with a genuine interest in learning.

Keep up the great work.

Regards

Badboy
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Flyboy on February 21, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
thanks for the info and help from everyone,
badboy that's an amazing resource, thanks for sharing! also the table mosq made is a great tool.
what is missing for me is the speeds the turns are done at, or what is the best speed to hold maximum sustained turn
i am looking to compare different speeds of the same plane and not different planes

Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: FLS on February 21, 2015, 05:51:08 PM
For max sustained turn the load will typically be between 2.5 and 3g. If you film a spiral climb with a low climb rate at 3g and note the speed where the stall buffet starts that will get you close to the speed you need.  Testing around that speed and g and comparing your turn rates should establish the best speed and g load. Since we seldom fight in flat turns at the tested weights and altitude I simplify by recommending you know your 3g stall speed which is often near your minimum vertical maneuver speed.
Title: Re: plane performance charts and characteristics
Post by: Zimme83 on February 23, 2015, 07:51:03 PM
Something worth mentioning is the fact that a slow plane isnt nessesairly a better turner than a fast one. For ex: the Spit XIV can turn with a Spit V if their weight are the same. But the spit XIV usually turns in a lot higher speed than the Spit V and thus the turn radius is larger. Slowing down the XIV to "Mk V speed" and their turn radius will be the same. The average player will have the impression that the Mk V is a much better turner than the later spits but in reality its just slower. (again if their weight are the same)