General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gman on March 27, 2015, 09:03:29 PM
Title: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Gman on March 27, 2015, 09:03:29 PM
I've been watching a bunch of nuclear war/WW3 movies lately, having just re read Red Storm by TC for the umpteenth time, along with The Third World War by Hackett, two of my favorites. Team Yankee by Coyle is next.
For films or movies made for TV, I've watched The Day After, and my favorite, By Dawn's Early light. I've also recently watched that 10 part series from Youtube called "World War 3, the Movie", which is a fantastic amateur put together project featuring so much great footage from the Cold War of the 80s that I grew up on.
I've always been very interested in the subject, as I said, I grew up on the books and games at the end/height of the Cold War in the mid to late 80s, and ate up anything I could get my hands on. My parents even became concerned, and sent me to a "councilor", fearing I had some unhealthy death fascination or something - the psych and I ended up talking for an hour about Tom Clancy's latest book which was Cardinal of the Kremlin, and the SDI projects - hah.
Anyone have any recommendations or favorites for either genre, film or literature? I realize Team Yankee isn't so much a WW3 book, more of a limited Soviet/Nato clash with very limited nuclear exchange near the end, but there has to be some I've not read that others have which I've missed over the years.
One question I have about the subject matter in general - do any of you consider it a real threat still, nuclear warfare in terms of strategic exchanges vs cities and civilian populated areas? Discussing current events with a neighbor friend, she was going on about what she would do if the news came that nuclear warfare might be immanent, and didn't take it to well when I told her she would likely not have ANY warning - historically when the USA and USSR had close calls, the US gov officials invariably chose to NOT inform the public trouble could be on the way. Couple that with a less than 30 minute flight time for ballistic missiles/re entry vehicles, plus the fact that we sleep around 1/3 of the day - odds are we'd either be dead, or wake up and wonder why the airwaves were absolutely berserk, or off the air completely, at least IMO.
I really hope there is some diamond in the rough books or films/shows I haven't seen yet that others have tat I can gobble up.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Masherbrum on March 27, 2015, 09:08:36 PM
Fail Safe is one of my favorite movies.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: SysError on March 27, 2015, 09:15:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIoBrob3bjI
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: pembquist on March 27, 2015, 10:14:03 PM
The 1959 production of "on the beach" is pretty good. "The Bedford Incident", 1965, isn't strictly about nuclear war but about how things get out of hand. These are older movies,(obviously.)
As for is it a real threat I would say that of course it is. This is my thinking: The world runs on probabilites so most of the time nothing to out of the ordinary happens. We design things based on probabilites but we are really bad at intuiting them. The fact that nuclear weapons on top of rockets still are operational means that it can happen, the odds may be remote, they might not be so remote. I don't know. But one thing for sure is that I have read physicists turned financial engineers complain that the financial crisis was a 25 sigma event which is so remote that I can only assume that they are saying it didn't really happen. My point is that it doesn't matter what the risk is with nukes as if they get used it is game over.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Rich46yo on March 27, 2015, 10:17:28 PM
The Day After also showed a very limited exchange of weapons. And rather small, unrealistically small, weapon yields. If the genie was let out of the bottle in a strategic exchange there just wouldnt be anyone around in those states to tell the story of. At the height of The Cold War there were 70,000 deliverable nuclear weapons. 90% of them belonged to America and the Soviet Union. We both had over 10,000 strategic weapons on alert each and I'd bet the average yield was somewhere in the 350 to 500 kiloton range. If not more. "Hiroshima" was 16 kilotons.
America and Russia would have been mostly "gone".
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wolfala on March 27, 2015, 10:29:47 PM
Read the Nuclear Almanac by MIT Press
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: FLOOB on March 28, 2015, 02:55:37 AM
I thought the flim Threads was better than The Day After.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: pipz on March 28, 2015, 04:53:39 AM
The 1959 production of "on the beach" is pretty good. "The Bedford Incident", 1965, isn't strictly about nuclear war but about how things get out of hand. These are older movies,(obviously.)
The Bedford incident was a good movie. I havnt seen it in some years.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 28, 2015, 06:37:58 AM
One question I have about the subject matter in general - do any of you consider it a real threat still, nuclear warfare in terms of strategic exchanges vs cities and civilian populated areas?
Considering the fruitcake currently at the helm of Russia, yes unfortunately it is a real threat. As horrible as the whole thought sounds, that is the way I see it.
"Vladimir Putin has said Russia was so fearful of attack at the height of the Ukraine crisis that it was preparing to arm its nuclear weapons, in extraordinary claims aired on state TV on Sunday night." Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-says-russia-was-preparing-to-use-nuclear-weapons-if-necessary-and-blames-us-for-ukraine-crisis-in-crimea-documentary-10109615.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-says-russia-was-preparing-to-use-nuclear-weapons-if-necessary-and-blames-us-for-ukraine-crisis-in-crimea-documentary-10109615.html)
When this guy really starts to find ways to be properly be left in the history books...well...I don't even want to think the lengths he might go.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 28, 2015, 06:42:21 AM
Some very dark humour regarding the subject in a blast door of a minuteman silo: (http://www.designobserver.com/Images/Vanderbilt.Delta2.jpg)
I'm sure many have seen it before.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 28, 2015, 06:48:57 AM
I thought the flim Threads was better than The Day After.
I agree wholeheartedly. Actually, in university, I took an elective called "War and Society". We watched that film for a couple of lectures. The BBC production puts day after to shame.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 28, 2015, 08:25:36 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. Actually, in university, I took an elective called "War and Society". We watched that film for a couple of lectures. The BBC production puts day after to shame.
Have seen Day After but unfortunately not this Threads. Sounds like I gotta get hold of it.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: FLOOB on March 28, 2015, 08:26:20 AM
Threads
https://vimeo.com/18781528
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: FLOOB on March 28, 2015, 10:36:51 AM
Speaking of nukes, I found this is illuminating.
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 28, 2015, 10:48:56 AM
Illuminating, hah!
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wolfala on March 28, 2015, 12:33:24 PM
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: ghi on March 28, 2015, 12:36:14 PM
The Man Who Saw Tomorrow (1981) - Orson Welles; I watched this 30 years ago during cold war, but still seems to fit in our daily news; (i didn't find the full original version )
Australian TV program made in 1979 on the Prophecies of Nostradamus
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: craz07 on March 28, 2015, 12:56:07 PM
I watched the day after and don't rememeber a thing, thats what happpens when u smoke pot i guess....
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: APDrone on March 28, 2015, 02:30:32 PM
No cold war thread discussing film can be complete without at least one reference to Dr. Strangelove.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 28, 2015, 04:24:01 PM
Here people can try their hand at the grand illumination by themselves: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ (http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/)
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: ghi on March 28, 2015, 04:36:54 PM
Agreed. And, as APDrone says, "Dr. Strangelove." They actually held up releasing Strangelove because they thought people wouldn't take Fail Safe so seriously.
"On the Beach" has those creepy scenes of a deserted San Francisco, at a time when you couldn't manipulate such things with computers.
- oldman
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: shake307 on March 28, 2015, 05:36:20 PM
Not really a film of entertainment, but Countdown To Zero was very sobering. It is on netflix right now. I have never been a fan of the vast amounts of nuclear weapons humanity has under the thumb. But when Gorbachev, among other world leaders, is saying the world should be completely rid of all nuclear weaponry, it tends to open one's eyes.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Gman on March 28, 2015, 05:40:08 PM
It need not be an entertainment film to be sure, that last one was an excellent referral for Netflix, Countdown to zero.
I"d never seen "Threads" before. Disturbing now, it must have really been bonkers back when it was made decades ago. The accents were like fingernails on the chalkboard at times, but otherwise very good. Absolutely superior to Day After.
On the Beach, I'd watched the one made in 2000 with Armand Assante and wasn't all that impressed, is it based on something previous, and...not ridiculous?
Many other new ones here for me as well.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 28, 2015, 07:11:55 PM
When the wind blows:
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: ghi on March 28, 2015, 07:48:23 PM
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Gman on March 28, 2015, 07:58:01 PM
Ghi, that's a good catch, I watched it yesterday again, it's been a while. Great nuclear blast graphics and affects for being 13 years ago. A lot of nuclear tech, theme, and so on in that film. The stuff after the bomb on the NAOC was interesting as well.
The director did a great job when the CH53s with the Marines came to find the President after the attack, that whole sequence was really well done IMO, including the music.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: ghi on March 28, 2015, 08:05:13 PM
this one comes in my mind, hilarious from Mars Attacks :rofl ACK-ACK !
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2015, 08:27:06 PM
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Oldman731 on March 28, 2015, 09:17:09 PM
On the Beach, I'd watched the one made in 2000 with Armand Assante and wasn't all that impressed, is it based on something previous, and...not ridiculous?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053137/
Remakes usually are not comparable to the originals.
- oldman
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 28, 2015, 09:38:42 PM
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945
Only goes up to 1998 but yeah.
Notice how when Britain tests nukes we do it in other peoples countries? We R teh smart.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Arlo on March 29, 2015, 12:39:24 PM
You are an island nation. Where would you test there? Wales?
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Gman on March 29, 2015, 12:52:56 PM
Thanks again all, lots of new material. Floob especially, lots of good links. <3 Floob.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: fracca on March 29, 2015, 06:58:50 PM
My vote would go to Threads for sure.
Question, it may have already been listed here, but I remember an old movie (possibly made-for-tv) where the US president is in a diner during a nuclear exchange. Vaguely remember the middle east being involved (attacking the US), and their nuclear weapons not working as they had been bought from the US, who had secretly disabled them.... Anyone know what i'm talking about?
I remember watching it late night in the UK, possibly with another film called The Second Civil War. (Which is also worth a watch).
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Coalcat1 on March 29, 2015, 07:06:50 PM
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Scherf on March 29, 2015, 08:29:15 PM
Thing I remember about threads was that it was made against the backdrop of discussions re: nuclear war being winnable, the whole "with enough shovels" thing. I recall at the time there was considerable bewilderment about that statement - was it actually made?
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Arlo on March 29, 2015, 09:37:19 PM
May we never be put in a position to find out if nuclear war (on any scale) is 'survivable' or not (though i must admit that I've been of the opinion that every day is borrowed time since Pandora's box opened). Oh, and the wall coming down in Berlin never evoked a sigh of relief in me. Bless my conflicted soul.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Oldman731 on March 29, 2015, 09:38:07 PM
Thing I remember about threads was that it was made against the backdrop of discussions re: nuclear war being winnable, the whole "with enough shovels" thing. I recall at the time there was considerable bewilderment about that statement - was it actually made?
Absolutely! While western societies generally considered that nuclear war would be the end of all life, the Bolsheviks planned on how to survive it and dominate the subsequent situation. So..we decided we had to do the same. The discussions took on a surreal quality, but there's no doubt they occurred. Heck, I remember arguing how to win in toe-to-toe nuclear combat with the Russkies.
Fortunately, there was enough doubt, that Mutually Assured Destruction ultimately prevailed as a deterrent.
- oldman
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: ghi on March 29, 2015, 10:08:17 PM
I remember watching this video, China's first nuke; no big deal; but..... this poor horses wearing gas mask blew my mind ,, poor 100% vegetarian animals dragged by stupid diabolic possessed human minds along our sick history through slaughter and wars, from stone to ...........atomic age; :rolleyes: :( :furious :(
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Bodhi on March 29, 2015, 10:17:23 PM
I remember watching this video, China's first nuke; no big deal; but..... this poor horses wearing gas mask blew my mind ,, poor 100% vegetarian animals dragged by stupid diabolic possessed human minds along our sick history through slaughter and wars, from stone to ...........atomic age; :rolleyes: :( :furious :(
:O WTF!
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Motherland on March 29, 2015, 10:49:43 PM
I remember watching this video, China's first nuke; no big deal; but..... this poor horses wearing gas mask blew my mind ,, poor 100% vegetarian animals dragged by stupid diabolic possessed human minds along our sick history through slaughter and wars, from stone to ...........atomic age; :rolleyes: :( :furious :(
I highly recommend the documentary this clip was taken from, "Trinity and Beyond: the Atomic Bomb Story" Here's another clip, this one about the Castle Bravo test, America's largest thermonuclear device (15 Megatons)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge865CR9pN8
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: FLOOB on March 30, 2015, 12:11:14 AM
Secrets of the dead did an episode about the history of the hydrogen bomb. Castle bravo, tzar bomb and all that.
PBS has also done a doc on the manhattan project and another one on Eppenheimer and I think they did one on the Nazi heavy water plant in Norway. They've done at least one on soviet nuclear subs, and they did one on admiral Rickover.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Oldman731 on March 30, 2015, 07:33:12 AM
Absolutely! While western societies generally considered that nuclear war would be the end of all life, the Bolsheviks planned on how to survive it and dominate the subsequent situation. So..we decided we had to do the same. The discussions took on a surreal quality, but there's no doubt they occurred. Heck, I remember arguing how to win in toe-to-toe nuclear combat with the Russkies.
Fortunately, there was enough doubt, that Mutually Assured Destruction ultimately prevailed as a deterrent.
- oldman
We just need to make sure there is not a mine shaft gap with the russians
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 31, 2015, 01:30:28 PM
SysError truly opened my eyes with Tom Lehrer. Can't thank you enough SysError! Been listening his songs non-stop since I discovered them. Stupid me for not stumbling into them sooner!
Couple other hilarious ones regarding the subject at hand:
Who's next https://youtu.be/oRLON3ddZIw (https://youtu.be/oRLON3ddZIw)
Wernher von Braun https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio (https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio)
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Lusche on March 31, 2015, 01:40:06 PM
SysError truly opened my eyes with Tom Lehrer. Can't thank you enough SysError! Been listening his songs non-stop since I discovered them. Stupid me for not stumbling into them sooner!
Couple other hilarious ones regarding the subject at hand:
Who's next https://youtu.be/oRLON3ddZIw (https://youtu.be/oRLON3ddZIw)
Wernher von Braun https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio (https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio)
He is my favorite satirist from the 1950s/60s. While a lot of songs were written before the 60s, I usually like the 60s renditions better.
Here is another song I was going to post, but I didn't thinking that it could over kill. Maybe not. Here you go:
So Long, Mom (A Song for World War III)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pklr0UD9eSo
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 31, 2015, 05:57:24 PM
He is my favorite satirist from the 1950s/60s. While a lot of songs were written before the 60s, I usually like the 60s renditions better.
Here is another song I was going to post, but I didn't thinking that it could over kill. Maybe not. Here you go:
So Long, Mom (A Song for World War III)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pklr0UD9eSo
You will newer know how grateful I'm to you! :salute
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Wmaker on March 31, 2015, 06:00:56 PM
This is the essense of Interney. And I hope it goes this way...that people like I will learn...
...And that's all I can say aboitn that.
...Espsecially considering my drunkenness.....
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Gman on March 31, 2015, 06:15:41 PM
Wow, lots more good stuff. That Castle Bravo bomb - pretty eye opening info, to think it exceeded their predictions by 2.5x, and showered those that they thought outside the radius for fallout.
I'm with Arlo, I think every day has been a gift, and as much as we don't think about it so much as a society any more, we could be back to the stone age in the blink of an eye.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Muzzy on April 01, 2015, 10:53:29 PM
My students don't grasp the concept of growing up with nukes literally pointed at your head.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: MrGeezer on April 01, 2015, 11:21:48 PM
One of the cool things about being a ham operator is the vast variety in the folks you meet on-air.
One guy was a liason between the military and the scientists on the Manhattan Project.
He lived in a protected (by geography) home in Western Colorado (in case of nuclear war) and lived out his life in peace -- yet still protective in case of international insanity.
Good man. His stories about the Project were compelling and I loved each contact. It reminded me just how vulnerable we were to hostile forces.
Title: Re: Nuclear war films/books
Post by: Nilsen on April 02, 2015, 01:43:08 PM
Red Storm is great for what it is. My well used and red copy. On page 289 when i spotted this thread :D