Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: RedAgony on April 14, 2015, 02:22:26 PM
-
Okay, before I go crazy, can someone PLEASE give me some tips on flying against LA-7s? When I'm in 190s it seems like there is NO way to rope them... they'll just float up at 0mph and shoot you. If you try and scissor, they'll never overshoot and you just give them multiple snapshots with their cannons.
What is a true weakness of the Lavochkin?
-
PM sent.
-
What is a true weakness of the Lavochkin?
The pilot. Or the Bore and Zoom as described above.
Wiley.
-
The pilot.
There are some scenarios you cannot win, given the plane selections and pilots of equal skill. Even the best pilots cannot make their planes perform what they are not capable of doing. That is why ACM exists, as rules to prevent pilots from committing into fights their aircraft literally cannot handle against a competent opponent. Relying on "the pilot" is the antithesis of what ACM is about.
However important they might be, "the pilot" should always be the last consideration in a dogfight, never the first. Doing otherwise shows a presumption of one's own skill and an underestimation of the opponent's skill, both of which are classically proven time and time again to be fatal mistakes.
-
Very capable aircraft under 10k, but once above it starts to lose its performance advantage to the 190D(and possibly the A series) significantly.
Also, An La7 will never be able keep its nose up for a shot at 0mph, its impossible. Your probably misjudging their E-state and pulling them up even though they have enough zoom to bring you into gun range. When attempting to rope an opponent you need to make sure the either A) you have enough speed to Stay out of their guns as you pull them up or B) Come up in a Light but smooth spiral which forces them to bleed more E lining up a shot while nose up. If you don't mind being bored to death, you should watch some of Skyyrs MA sorties that he posts on his youtube channel. He's very good at Roping opponents up and coming back down on them just as they stall.
The LA7 can scissor real well, especially in the hands of a good stick. Its roll is good and it has a pair of damn good flaps that let it stall fight almost as well as the 109K4. I'd recommend(and others should correct me if I'm wrong) to put an LA7 into a Flat scissor at higher speeds. The LA7s flaps don't deploy until about 200IAS I think, so it really can't slam on the breaks like it can at lower speeds. Makes sure you have Altitude to work with and if you end up picking up an LA7 try to get your speed up to around 400 or better and Scissor hard, remember to pitch the nose down slighting when crossing back in-front of him to deny him a cross shot.
Please feel free to shoot down my post anyone esle
-
There are some scenarios you cannot win, given the plane selections and pilots of equal skill. Even the best pilots cannot make their planes perform what they are not capable of doing. That is why ACM exists, as rules to prevent pilots from committing into fights their aircraft literally cannot handle against a competent opponent. Relying on "the pilot" is the antithesis of what ACM is about.
However important they might be, "the pilot" should always be the last consideration in a dogfight, never the first. Doing otherwise shows a presumption of one's own skill and an underestimation of the opponent's skill, both of which are classically proven time and time again to be fatal mistakes.
Co-E, as described in your redacted post, it's either die or Bore and Zoom. You're dead against an equal pilot. It's that simple. He asked what the LA's weakness was. In that scenario, that's the only one. There is nothing in the plane's performance to exploit.
Wiley.
-
Co-E, as described in your redacted post, it's either die or Bore and Zoom. You're dead against an equal pilot. It's that simple. He asked what the LA's weakness was. In that scenario, that's the only one. There is nothing in the plane's performance to exploit.
Wiley.
I don't disagree, I was simply clarifying that even pilot skill isn't enough in the scenario, given pilots of the same skill level. I just wanted to set expectations; all too often "skill" gets thrown around (in general, not by you necessarily) without realizing skill can only affect so much.
It is worth noting there are some defensive tactics that can be used on the D9's end of things, but that's more minutia and outside the scope of the original question.
-
It is worth noting there are some defensive tactics that can be used on the D9's end of things
That's the Dora. The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought). What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?
- oldman
-
That's the Dora. The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought). What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?
- oldman
People underestimate the F-8
-
That's the Dora. The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought). What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?
- oldman
It has a huge advantage in dive performance...might force the overshoot there until you can extend to help...
-
Ahh yes, the LA7 - world's first prop driven jet.
In typical MA fights it simply does not have any real disadvantages to exploit. Luckily LA7 are usually flown by very poor pilots, and being Russian, it is not too popular. You simply cannot beat the plane, so you'd have to beat the pilot instead.
-
One point I can make is don't let a plane like an La7 get you so pessimistic that any La7 owns you. I got that way on 190s a while back. Now the 190 is no big deal.
In the P-38, I know if I can get on La7 on defense by using SA then starting with a good position, I have a good chance of a kill on the average(not the better) La7 player. Like a P51 the La7's speed can be used against them.
One last but a really good training point. Use the La7 for a week. Learn the plane and you learn how to kill it.
-
One last but a really good training point. Use the La7 for a week. Learn the plane and you learn how to kill it.
This...
-
Alright you better read this!!
La7s are very aggressive birds, you always see them at low alts typically base defending trying to hop on everyones 6 as quickly as possible. This is much of an advantage as it is a weakness for an la7. What does hopping on everyone's 6 as quickly as possible mean? It is easy to pick. The La7s biggest weakness is that it is easy to pick. Much like the F4U. You get all caught up trying to kill the guy in front of you and then you either get jumped by higher con's or some plane is zooming on the deck looking for slow planes to prance on after a fight. The La7s are always chasing something. Hop on their 6 from high alts and pick him as he is trying to shoot your friendly. Its dirty but I don't make the rules.
Let's look at the aircrafts weaknesses.
1. Does not get a lot of gas.
This means it won't be at very high alts, it won't fly far to bases, and it will generally be used as a base defender (when I typically use it). This means 85% of the time you will see an LA7 when you are attacking a base only. This is good for you!
2. If you fly 190s a lot this means your torque goes the left where as a the torque for an La7 goes to the right! This is good for you! Next time you think you can pull off a rope, spiral climb to the left. You may have a chance to win the rope as the la7 will be battleing itself and losing a lot of E.
3. The La7s best characteristic is speeding around on the deck.
So how do you beat a plane or stay away from a plane that mostly flies on the deck? You stay high!! When you are approaching a base, come in it at 15k. There will not be any La7s this high (normally) you have all the advantage. When you dive on a la7, if you overshoot pull up and emmilman to the left. Don't get stuck fighting planes on the deck, this is how you get caught by La7s. There are 2 ways to kill La7s, 1. pick them while they are chasing someone, or BnZ them not giving up your E, always pull up and go left on the loop over. 2 fly a plane that our turns it, such as the N1K2, spit, Ki84, F4U, and so on. This method would be a lot harder if you are new to the stall fighting game. The La7 can turn quite well but not incredibly well so you really gotta practice the stall fighting game and you can out turn most LA pilots in planes that can actually turn better.
You really have to judge the LA7 you are fighting. How aggressive are they? How much alt do they have? What is their speed and E state? What is your speed and E state? Can you get away from planes on the deck? Why are you on the deck while you are attacking a base? Never get below 5K stall fighting a plane. If you fly 190s you have yo stay fast above 400 if you are below 5K.
These are keys to stay away from the LA7 and to fight it with your advantage of alt, picking it, and if you are in a turn fighting plane, useing your E and turn skills to out manauver the LA7. Other than that, if you lose alt advanatage and have an La7 zooming on your 6 your only chance is the barrel roll defense, which is complicated and advanced so I won't explain right now. You just simply cannot be low against an La7 and you have to use BnZ and left spiral climb during the rope to be successful against La7s.
-
PM sent.
That's a shame. Seeing as you fly both air frames almost exclusively, your opinion would be a healthy contribution to this thread.
-
That's a shame. Seeing as you fly both air frames almost exclusively, your opinion would be a healthy contribution to this thread.
I got to read his post before he edited it so I'll do a quick summary for you.
Below 8K you're screwed fighting an La7 with any 190.
Above 8K the Dora can extend with better speed until you gain the needed separation and altitude to reengage with more advantages
Above 16K do the same with the 152.
Not sure why the edit to PM, I'm sure lots of folks would find the information interesting.
-
Sounds about right, I'm interested in seeing the "tactics" he mentioned in another post. I'm sure that kind of information would be helpful in this thread.
-
While what has been said is good info don't EVER give up on the fight!
Check out the film. Im in a D9 and blow a perfectly good shot on a 3k zooming 38. I then get jumped by a screamin LA7. Pretty much the scenario everyone says your dead meat on, low and slow in a D9 with a high E LA jumping you. Fight it out, you never know how it will end until it is over!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/y852qe94zq6w5tm/whos_lucky_la.ahf
-
Thank you all for the replies! I have learned to *really* pick your fights, and a tip that Skyrr has helped me drill into my head "Always assume your opponent is going to fly perfect ACM." That takes most all of the guess work out of flying in the MA.
I know sometimes fights are hard to come by, but if you want to avoid the frustration of being sent to the tower, sometimes it's better to pass a fight up, unless it's a buddy that needs help.
One day at a time! You learn new things all the time-- boy it seems I was ready to give the game up a couple months ago because I couldn't reliably kill high bombers with P-51s or P-47s. Then I learned the hard way to use the right tool for the job (if I want to hunt bombers, I'd better be packing cannons/2 engines).
Also taking time to read this http://www.imagery.vnfawing.com/PDF-Archive/Fighter-Combat-Tactics-and-Maneuvering.pdf (http://www.imagery.vnfawing.com/PDF-Archive/Fighter-Combat-Tactics-and-Maneuvering.pdf)
Thanks!
-
The P51 and P47 are perfectly capable of swatting those buffs away. Infact, the single engine fighters have an easier time climbing up and over the buffs for a good attack position. Single engine fighters are also able to neutralize escorts more effectively.
-
2. If you fly 190s a lot this means your torque goes the left where as a the torque for an La7 goes to the right! This is good for you! Next time you think you can pull off a rope, spiral climb to the left. You may have a chance to win the rope as the la7 will be battleing itself and losing a lot of
This isnt correct,both the 190 and La7 engines spin the same way! You may have the La confussed with the Yak!
:salute
-
This isnt correct,both the 190 and La7 engines spin the same way! You may have the La confussed with the Yak!
:salute
Ah shucks. Figured all Russian was the opposite :headscratch:
-
That is correct. The D9 and La7 both spin the same direction. The only wrong turners I can think of are the spit14, yak 3, tempest, typhoon?, and technically p38. Also, don't approach bombers from the rear. Climb above and ahead of them. Dive on them, shoot. Keep diving, and if you want, zoom climb to meet them again. Or zoom climb ahead of them and dive again. I am not very good at this game, but using this tactic, I can tear up a bomber formation. :salute
-
That is correct. The D9 and La7 both spin the same direction. The only wrong turners I can think of are the spit14, yak 3, tempest, typhoon?, and technically p38. Also, don't approach bombers from the rear. Climb above and ahead of them. Dive on them, shoot. Keep diving, and if you want, zoom climb to meet them again. Or zoom climb ahead of them and dive again. I am not very good at this game, but using this tactic, I can tear up a bomber formation. :salute
Agreed!
The P-47 is a bomber killer. Of course, nothing is good if you use bad tactics...
-
In the Fw190a8-A5: high speed rolling scissor - forcing overshoot.
In the A8 only - and as a last resort - abrupt pullup forcing a snap-roll, its probably world record in speed loss in one second. do it close to ground so its hard to spot the plane icon.
At high alt you can dive away, and be a very hard target- as Bozon noted : luckily most LA-7 pilots are well below average in flying hours.
When attacking fields - always attack the La-7s first.
-
In the Fw190a8-A5: high speed rolling scissor - forcing overshoot.
In the A8 only - and as a last resort - abrupt pullup forcing a snap-roll, its probably world record in speed loss in one second. do it close to ground so its hard to spot the plane icon.
At high alt you can dive away, and be a very hard target- as Bozon noted : luckily most LA-7 pilots are well below average in flying hours.
When attacking fields - always attack the La-7s first.
All the LA has to do is pull up vertical, go to a flat horizontal turn for 90*, and then come back down rolling back 90*. Your entire maneuver is negated.
-
And still 80% do not do that due lack of experience, or other reasons.
80% are greedy for the fast kill in the rocket-7.
They lose vis of enemy in a scissor, they HO a plane they outperform in aspects than front quarter shots. The list is long and less complimentary.
If more of the average-good players would fly the LA-7, it would be perked already, or lose it's 3rd cannon, which I advocate.
Pretty much 80% of all planes taking off from capped bases are either La-7 or the zero-gravity climber Yak-3.
2 good La-7 pilots flying as wingmen in a low-altitude fight are almost untouchable and it's a myth they can only defend own bases.
If they fly with reduced RPM ( they still fly like 30mph faster than an A8 with wep on) they can fight like 7-8 minutes a sector away, and fly back with their reduced RPM.
-
Giving the LA7 a little to much credit IMO
-
Punch it
yank the stick
shoot
repeat