General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: zack1234 on May 07, 2015, 01:37:22 AM
Title: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 07, 2015, 01:37:22 AM
The UK and US are not attending 70 years of VE remembrence in Russia.
How many did Russia sacrifice saving us from the Narzzies?
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: FLOOB on May 07, 2015, 03:27:58 AM
Not as many as the rest of the soviet union.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Scherf on May 07, 2015, 03:48:35 AM
Grumpiness over current events in the Ukraine. Apparently the Russkies have in retaliation shut down a museum which featured WW2 from Normandy to the Elbe. Both gestures equally hollow and meaningless IMO. <shrug>
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 07, 2015, 04:10:48 AM
Childish and dangerous.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Delirium on May 07, 2015, 09:40:18 AM
How many did Russia sacrifice saving us from the Narzzies?
Sadly, about 20 million people. Which ironically is almost the same amount of people that died by Stalin's regime. Elevating Stalin was a dangerous mistake during and after WWII and I'm proud the UK and the US aren't making the same mistake with Putin.
If any country displayed their objection properly, it was Germany with Merkel not attending the celebration but paying respects at a war memorial in Russia. While I appreciate the sacrifice the individual Russian soldier made, I have no love for their leaders then or now.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: -aper- on May 07, 2015, 06:12:01 PM
Sadly, about 20 million people. Which ironically is almost the same amount of people that died by Stalin's regime. Elevating Stalin was a dangerous mistake during and after WWII and I'm proud the UK and the US aren't making the same mistake with Putin.
If any country displayed their objection properly, it was Germany with Merkel not attending the celebration but paying respects at a war memorial in Russia. While I appreciate the sacrifice the individual Russian soldier made, I have no love for their leaders then or now.
The Russians could not have defeated the Narzzies without Stalin.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 08, 2015, 12:41:10 AM
The Russians could not have defeated the Narzzies without Stalin.
A statement impossible to prove.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 08, 2015, 12:47:50 AM
Russia was held together by one man Stalin before during and after WWII.
Your statement is just as silly as saying The Germans would have won the war if Hitler had not come to power.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 08, 2015, 12:53:05 AM
And if Stalin had not come to power another Soviet leader would have followed Lenin. Perhaps the Soviet Union would have been better prepared militarily without Stalin's purges. As soon as you go into "what if" scenarios nothing is certain. And with regard to your second sentence I think you're talking to yourself. Seek help.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 08, 2015, 02:00:13 AM
Your another angry colonial.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 08, 2015, 02:09:04 AM
You're... Learn you own damn language.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 08, 2015, 02:12:23 AM
:rofl
Any positive things to say Mr Angry head :)
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 08, 2015, 02:22:09 AM
The weather is nice today. Partly cloudy with a chance of satellite debris. (Russian btw.)
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Scherf on May 08, 2015, 02:31:42 AM
"Is stronk debris."
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 08, 2015, 08:48:45 AM
:rofl
Gibberish
You have violated my rights
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Delirium on May 08, 2015, 08:53:53 AM
The Russians could not have defeated the Narzzies without Stalin.
Stalin nearly destroyed Russia's ability to defend itself with his purges of the military before the war began. This combined with Stalin's absolutely naïve acceptance of peace with Hitler brought about disastrous results for Russia during Barbarossa.
If anything I would say that Russia held their ground in spite of what Stalin did before the war began, likely in more fear of their leaders than German bullets.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: MiloMorai on May 08, 2015, 01:06:37 PM
Stalin nearly destroyed Russia's ability to defend itself with his purges of the military before the war began. This combined with Stalin's absolutely naïve acceptance of peace with Hitler brought about disastrous results for Russia during Barbarossa.
If anything I would say that Russia held their ground in spite of what Stalin did before the war began, likely in more fear of their leaders than German bullets.
He was buying time as was the invasion of Poland to give some buffer room (not that it really did)
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Delirium on May 08, 2015, 01:43:43 PM
Stalin was buying time, but he never considered (naivety) that Hitler would break the pact early.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 08, 2015, 02:24:06 PM
Buying time? How unsocialist of him...
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: potsNpans on May 08, 2015, 06:24:05 PM
Lets not forget Stalin was allied with Hitler at the beginning of the war, but always remember those Allied war heroes. I flew my colors today.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: EagleDNY on May 08, 2015, 07:07:16 PM
Russia was held together by one man Stalin before during and after WWII. Your statement is just as silly as saying The Germans would have won the war if Hitler had not come to power.
A bit of history that most people are not aware of (from the Stalin biography by Edvard Radzinsky):
The ascension of Hitler, as some saw it, was the result of a grave miscalculation on the Boss's (Stalin's) part. He who had managed the Comintern as his own fief had forbidden the German Communists to ally themselves with the Social Democrats. The anti-Hitler coalition was split as a result and had lost to Hitler.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Patches1 on May 08, 2015, 07:36:04 PM
Quote
Stalin nearly destroyed Russia's ability to defend itself with his purges of the military before the war began. This combined with Stalin's absolutely naïve acceptance of peace with Hitler brought about disastrous results for Russia during Barbarossa.
If anything I would say that Russia held their ground in spite of what Stalin did before the war began, likely in more fear of their leaders than German bullets.
I think 20 Millions of dead may confirm this.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: NatCigg on May 08, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
The UK and US are not attending 70 years of VE remembrence in Russia.
How many did Russia sacrifice saving us from the Narzzies?
America invented the internet. :old:
go to your room zack. :neener:
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: FLOOB on May 09, 2015, 12:42:09 AM
The thing that kind of irks me is that everyone seems to give russia credit for, and russia seems to try to take credit for, the victory of the soviet union in WWII. Most soviets weren't russian, and certainly most soviet men fighting the war were not russians. It seems unfair to the several other former soviet oblasts and the hundred or so other soviet ethnicities. It's just bad historiography. The west is probably more guilty of using the word russian interchangably with soviet than the russians themselves.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 09, 2015, 03:03:53 AM
The British- english,welsh,northern irish,scottish.
The US- english,nordics,french,italians,polish,russians,syrians,armenians,japanese,chinese,germans.irish.
The glue that holds the US together is claiming decent from the above and being anoyed at each other and everyone else who complains that they dont want cable tv.
The glue that holds the UK together is we dont care any more and have Big Macs and we had Winston Churchill even though he was half Yank was still awesome.
Roosevelt was English as well.
Musso and Adolf were poo. :old:
:rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Wmaker on May 09, 2015, 05:32:05 AM
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: LLv34_Dictonius on May 09, 2015, 05:36:41 AM
How many poles ruskies sacrificed while waiting on the borders of warsaw while the german forces demolished the town entirely - including its inhabitants. Only so Stalin could get rid of the radical citizens of poland before "liberating" it.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: -aper- on May 09, 2015, 05:54:16 AM
The thing that kind of irks me is that everyone seems to give russia credit for, and russia seems to try to take credit for, the victory of the soviet union in WWII. Most soviets weren't russian, and certainly most soviet men fighting the war were not russians. It seems unfair to the several other former soviet oblasts and the hundred or so other soviet ethnicities. It's just bad historiography. The west is probably more guilty of using the word russian interchangably with soviet than the russians themselves.
How many poles ruskies sacrificed while waiting on the borders of warsaw while the german forces demolished the town entirely - including its inhabitants. Only so Stalin could get rid of the radical citizens of poland before "liberating" it.
Why would the Soviets defend the Poles who hated them just as much as they hated the Germans?
Its like the US defending the North Koreans if the koreans were fighting China?
Finland surredered to the Soviets because you were allies of the Narzzies, is this why your statement is rather one sided?
I believe the Narzzies (Germans) were not particularly human in regards to civilians.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Wmaker on May 09, 2015, 07:55:44 AM
Finland surredered to the Soviets because you were allies of the Narzzies, is this why your statement is rather one sided?
Well, we all know that you are bit of a troll and not exactly the sharpest instrument in the shed....but I still want to break it to you....Finland hasn't "surrendered" (that is how it is actually spelt, btw) to anything or anyone during its independent existence. Just a FYI. Obviously needs brain to understand....which...well...and so forth... :)
EDIT/And btw, Zack....google Katyn massacre for starters..../EDIT
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 09, 2015, 08:26:35 AM
your another Mr Angry when the truth is stated get abusive .
You haven't provided anything that has any resemblence of a "truth". And I have. So as long as you continue to prove "no truths" you really aren't worth discussing with, nor worth anyone's time.
Katyn massacre for example is a clear fact and has nothing to do with Polish people being "anti-this-or-that". It is just a fact. And anyone with a brain understands that, that is something one should not do. You are obviously in favour of genocides (especially when they are done with someone that happens to be "on your side"). I personally think differently, gladly. Would surely suck to be you.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Perrine on May 09, 2015, 11:40:53 AM
wow...
Anyone here ever seen color footage of (Red Square) Victory parade from 1945?
If you think that was epic in scale, just check out Victory day 2015. Not even the V-day parades from 1965 until 1990 matched the scale of V-day 1945 until now.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: pembquist on May 09, 2015, 01:36:56 PM
After access to the soviet archives perspectives evolve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Clz27nghIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Clz27nghIg)
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 09, 2015, 01:59:06 PM
You haven't provided anything that has any resemblence of a "truth". And I have. So as long as you continue to prove "no truths" you really aren't worth discussing with, nor worth anyone's time.
Katyn massacre for example is a clear fact and has nothing to do with Polish people being "anti-this-or-that". It is just a fact. And anyone with a brain understands that, that is something one should not do. You are obviously in favour of genocides (especially when they are done with someone that happens to be "on your side"). I personally think differently, gladly. Would surely suck to be you.
7
your abusive and arrogant
when have i supported the soviets in my thread?
keep cutting and pasting
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: KgB on May 09, 2015, 08:13:16 PM
Sadly, about 20 million people. Which ironically is almost the same amount of people that died by Stalin's regime. Elevating Stalin was a dangerous mistake during and after WWII and I'm proud the UK and the US aren't making the same mistake with Putin.
If any country displayed their objection properly, it was Germany with Merkel not attending the celebration but paying respects at a war memorial in Russia. While I appreciate the sacrifice the individual Russian soldier made, I have no love for their leaders then or now.
Sadly its about 30 million, Stalin killed about 3 million. I challenge you to prove that figure you provided. Soviets killed 3 million Nazis, all other allies combined killed less than half of million. We saved Europe twice, from Napoleon and Hitler. You welcome dushebags. Besides Soviets only two nations deserve praise ,Britain and USA. WTF Nazi's prostitute (france) was doing in Berlin as victor is beyond me.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 09, 2015, 08:19:32 PM
8 million hungry Ukranian souls cry out in protest KgB...
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: KgB on May 09, 2015, 08:26:52 PM
You kill or you would like to kill all the people that you hate, right?
...quite the man, we all agree.... :)
Well, we all know that you are bit of a troll and not exactly the sharpest instrument in the shed....but I still want to break it to you....Finland hasn't "surrendered" (that is how it is actually spelt, btw) to anything or anyone during its independent existence. Just a FYI. Obviously needs brain to understand....which...well...and so forth... :)
EDIT/And btw, Zack....google Katyn massacre for starters..../EDIT
Google Poland invading Russia. Oh I'm sorry, is there a "bad country " time frame? If so, is it only for Russians?
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 09, 2015, 09:23:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 09, 2015, 09:26:22 PM
How does addition of eastern poland and western Russia to Ukraine feal? Does it compensate for allegedly Russians fault of 8 million dead? If its not enough, perhaps lliberation of Ukraine from Nazis would suffice? Should i mention that Hitler is one of Ukraines modern heroes ? Now listen ike boy, your discrimination of Russian sitizens in Finland is well known. You willl answer for that, and by God you will pay dearly.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 09, 2015, 11:07:32 PM
Why would I answer to that? I'm not Finnish.
Your defense of Soviet atrocities is shameful. The Holodomor was the most effective mass extermination of people ever. Even the Nazi Holocaust can't compare in cruelty (and that's saying something).
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 09, 2015, 11:23:34 PM
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Scherf on May 09, 2015, 11:38:01 PM
*sigh*
Can we pull our collective heads in and stay on topic please?
The atrocities of the various baddies have little to do with the sacrifice of the various unknown soldiers, of whom there are too many.
I'm off to watch parade highlights.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 10, 2015, 01:50:20 AM
Sadly its about 30 million, Stalin killed about 3 million. I challenge you to prove that figure you provided. Soviets killed 3 million Nazis, all other allies combined killed less than half of million. We saved Europe twice, from Napoleon and Hitler. You welcome dushebags. Besides Soviets only two nations deserve praise ,Britain and USA. WTF Nazi's prostitute (france) was doing in Berlin as victor is beyond me.
You didn't save anything. You put several sovereign countries under iron curtain and untold amounts of suffering. There's a reason why ex-soviet union countries hate russia with passion.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 10, 2015, 03:13:37 AM
The West did not put anything under Russian control!
The Russians took it!
How the hell was the West going to stop Hungary being Communist?
Why would the West fight the Russians to defend hungary a Nazi allies
Name one thing these countries have done except complain about everyoe else?
Britain had the Industrial revolution and Latvia had turnips!
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 10, 2015, 03:03:55 PM
The Holodomor was the most effective mass extermination of people ever. Even the Nazi Holocaust can't compare in cruelty (and that's saying something).
Mainstream history books usually point that as gross mismanagement and not Holocaust. Holomodor is right up there with the Great Leap Forward in terms of bad economic management.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 11, 2015, 01:09:30 AM
"Holodomor" is Ukrainian for "extermination by hunger", and most scholars today agree it was a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ukrainian independence movement. You see, at the time the Ukraine SSR was trying to secede from the Union, again.
After the revolution in Russia Ukraine declared their country to be an independent People's Republic. As a result, four years of war followed in which Ukrainian national troops fought against Lenin's Red Army, and also against Russia's White Army (troops still loyal to the Czar) as well as other invading forces including the Germans and Poles. In 1921, the war ended with a Soviet victory.
Stalin wouldn't have any of that again. As 25,000 Ukrainians died of hunger each day the Soviet Union exported the grain it had confiscated from them. 1,819,114 tons in 1932, and 1,771,364 tons in 1933. Grain that was not yet shipped out was stored in granaries. While the animals that were needed for work on the farms were fed, the people were left to starve. The granaries were guarded by the OGPU and NKVD (what later became the KGB) to ensure no one would steal grain supplies. Anyone who attempted to do so was shot.
The 2008 documentary The Soviet Story should be seen by everyone. It should be in every school curriculum everywhere and serve as a warning to every future generation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPkTro6WnmU
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: LLv34_Dictonius on May 11, 2015, 02:31:28 AM
... your discrimination of Russian sitizens in Finland is well known. You willl answer for that, and by God you will pay dearly.
Finland is democracy and we consider russian tourists part of our economy. We do not piss on our cereals, you know. If your media gives differing opinion, it might be happening on purpose I can not understand. I can not deny there wouldn't be some old hatchets still buried on our backyards. Old grudges die hard. But then again russians tried to attempt to occupy us, you know. But what I can not understand is your threat of making us pay for offering russian citizens western commodities and the atmosphere of freedom not currently available in Russia (that is, until the political situation eases up a bit). But thats politics. Lets not go there.
It's like one of the russian veterans said on the VE day: I hope peace and diplomacy gets us in to the future not the weapons of war. I agree with him - dearly.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 11, 2015, 03:51:21 AM
Finland is democracy and we consider russian tourists part of our economy. We do not piss on our cereals, you know. If your media gives differing opinion, it might be happening on purpose I can not understand. I can not deny there wouldn't be some old hatchets still buried on our backyards. Old grudges die hard. But then again russians tried to attempt to occupy us, you know. But what I can not understand is your threat of making us pay for offering russian citizens western commodities and the atmosphere of freedom not currently available in Russia (that is, until the political situation eases up a bit). But thats politics. Lets not go there.
It's like one of the russian veterans said on the VE day: I hope peace and diplomacy gets us in to the future not the weapons of war. I agree with him - dearly.
KGB listens to the propaganda in Russia, he is not interested in the truth.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 11, 2015, 05:25:57 AM
The Ukrainans after the fall of the Soviet Union demanded that they wanted independance from the Russia sphere.
The main consumer of Ukrainian wheat.....you guessed it Russia :rofl
The Russians now buy US wheat :rofl
Turnips and cabbages :rofl
you could not make it up :rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 11, 2015, 06:09:39 AM
Soviets imported grain from America during most of the cold war. The inefficiency of the communist system is mind boggling.
Btw. Seems like Russia has designs on the Ukraine yet again. Will we let them do it again?
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 11, 2015, 01:10:53 PM
:rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Delirium on May 11, 2015, 02:35:57 PM
Sadly its about 30 million, Stalin killed about 3 million. I challenge you to prove that figure you provided. Soviets killed 3 million Nazis, all other allies combined killed less than half of million.
I had a chance to look through many reliable and irrefutable sources today. The number of Russian dead attributed to Stalin is between 6 and 20 million. This does NOT take into account the actual war deaths.
We saved Europe twice, from Napoleon and Hitler. You welcome dushebags. Besides Soviets only two nations deserve praise ,Britain and USA. WTF Nazi's prostitute (france) was doing in Berlin as victor is beyond me.
I respect the pride you hold in your native land, but your attitude is ridiculous.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 11, 2015, 02:58:42 PM
Can anyone spot the problem with this billboard? It's a billboard in a Russian city to commemorate the end of the war and victory over Germany. The billboard's caption says, "They fought for the Motherland".
Soviets imported grain from America during most of the cold war. The inefficiency of the communist system is mind boggling.
Btw. Seems like Russia has designs on the Ukraine yet again. Will we let them do it again?
China
another sweeping statement based on soft fruit and episodes of happy days
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 02:20:52 AM
China was dirt poor and inefficient back when they were communist. Like North Korea still is today. It was only when China turned to a capitalist economy that they started to climb out of their near total destitution. China is more fascist today than communist.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 12, 2015, 05:39:38 AM
So why why was the US government (obama) discussing with China climate change in November?
WAS IT CLIMATE CHANGE :rofl
The US is China's biggest invester :rofl
Japan is moaning because the US is now backing China :rofl
Or is it lizard men living in the earth :rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 06:55:23 AM
You're not making any sense.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 12, 2015, 11:36:53 AM
Obama was not discussing climate change was he :rofl
He was discussing how much MORE investment money the Chinese wanted from the US.
you complain about china when it getting bank rolled by the US :rofl
You dont make any sense :)
November 2015 climate talk with obama shaking hands with chinese premier, you did not believe it, tell me you didnt.I
Your trolling me 1 nil to you
Well done :salute
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 11:41:45 AM
I'm not complaining about China. You brought up China, for reasons only known to you...
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 12, 2015, 12:37:23 PM
You said china was facist?
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 12:43:28 PM
And?
Better than communist.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 12, 2015, 01:20:45 PM
So you did bring up China :rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Wmaker on May 12, 2015, 02:08:30 PM
Now listen ike boy, your discrimination of Russian sitizens in Finland is well known. You willl answer for that, and by God you will pay dearly.
What a crock of nonsense. I happen to live in Lappeenranta near the boarder and it really doesn't matter which you look at it your comment is simply delusional. I for example have zero interest or need to "discriminate" a person based on his national background regardless of the nation including Russians. Now if a person would start spewing such nonsense as you for example have in this thread at my place (regardless of his nationality), I would tell him to take a hike in two seconds.
Listening Russian government propaganda with blinders on easily results in a situation where a person might believe all kinds of bogus things regarding various countries. Russia uses its immigrants in other countries as a political tool for their propaganda and as a way to intervene in internal matters of other countries.
As for "playing dearly" about something non existent, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH. :rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on May 12, 2015, 02:36:50 PM
I'm not sure what facism is. It sounds similar to fascism, only maybe more, <ahem>, IN YO FACE.
Zackles, please give my regards to Dear James. Tell him that I'll be there again shortly for some nice rounds of croquets and Pim's. I do so love these outings, and with labor gutted, I expect we'll finally be able to indulge ourselves in our games of "ridicule the proles" and "top the toff". I expect we'll overindulge, per usual, and I'll likely soil my whites again, if not the carpets. It typically comes down to quickness and how compromised might be the fine motor control. This last is necessary to make "the move" before "the move" makes you, if you follow.
As for you, you've been a very naughty boy again, and my dog has required extra fettling to put things back to right back there. The poor dear is still wearing a cone... sorry, a Victorian collar, to you. As for this China business, you do once again touch on truth - and to call it fascism would sort of miss the point of crony capitalism, but then, what is private ownership without control, after all (ie, he has a point too)?
as ever, etc. etc...
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 02:39:27 PM
and to call it fascism would sort of miss the point of crony capitalism
"Crony capitalism" is fascism/state capitalism. Or to quote Benito Mussolini: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 12, 2015, 02:52:06 PM
Yes i brought up China :)
China imported food stuffs from the US during the cold war because of Mao's famines.
Russia did not :)
The Soviet Union and China hated each other, of course you knew that :).....? or did you :rofl
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 12, 2015, 03:02:31 PM
Yes I know that.
"Soviet-American trade peaked in 1979 at US$4.5 billion, exactly 1 percent of total United States trade. The Soviet Union continuously ran a trade deficit with the United States in the 1970s and early 1980s, but from 1985 through 1987 the Soviet Union cut imports from the United States while maintaining its level of exports to balance trade between the two countries."
"The Soviet Union exported chemicals, metals (including gold), and petroleum products in addition to fur skins, alcoholic beverages, and fish products to the United States and received agricultural goods—mostly grain—and industrial equipment in return."
Add "ignorant" to list of things I've called you so far.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on May 12, 2015, 03:25:46 PM
"Crony capitalism" is fascism/state capitalism. Or to quote Benito Mussolini: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
Exactly - see my acknowledgement that you had a point ("what is private ownership without control"?).
As for you, this desire to grapple with Zack, you'll find, is Quixotic. Your arguments can be right on the mark, your supporting data impeccable (exactly right, too, on the USSR's deficit with the US - American grain consistently made up for their failed collective farms. The USSR often used their heavily-incentivized military and private plots to produces food as well). None of that will matter. It is a different type of being in a different type of space.
It is far better to understand the Zack as something "other". then to work with that other as a door to transformation. Get out the patchouli. Dust off the cravat. Put yourself in the other, man. Sometimes, sometimes he goes too far... In the end, though, if you put a hat on the burger, it'll feel right.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 12, 2015, 03:27:12 PM
Add "ignorant" to list of things I've called you so far.
My word
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: eagl on May 13, 2015, 12:36:52 AM
Bankrupting a rival nation without starving them into desperation was a fairly reasonable strategy especially considering the conventional wisdom regarding why Japan got all stabby in the lead-up to WWII. The metals and other resources we received from the USSR could be made into durable goods, investments in the future. The grain we shipped back was eaten within the year, convertible into nothing but man-hours used to dig up more resources for export or use in domestic military equipment that was obsolete within a year or two. As long as that cycle is continued without one or the other nation really BELIEVING that they are doomed, it is an effective speedbump against war. At least that's the theory, and it looks reasonable in hindsight knowing that it was one piece of a complex effort that seems to have worked.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 13, 2015, 12:45:21 AM
So the aircraft carrier colonials say is for invading japan and the US is infact the above?
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 13, 2015, 01:26:50 AM
The Soviets bankrupted themselves. A Marxist planned economy simply doesn't work in real life. If anything the western democracies, America chief among them, slowed down the inevitable economic collapse of the Soviet Union. At 1% or less of total US trade the US/SU trade cannot be said to have been very significant, but as you say it prevented them from becoming desperate and (even more) dangerous. We're doing the same thing now with North Korea. Their entire economy is basically funded by foreign aid, and the only reason we're doing it is to stave off war in the hope that the country will reform into something more viable (like China) in a peaceful way sometime in the future.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 13, 2015, 01:46:04 AM
So the "Star wars" project initiated by Reagan had nothing to do with the demise of the soviet union?
Was the Cold War not infact a economic method of bankrupting the Commies?
And today is this Putin gibberish?
North Korea? I thought it was Iran,Afganistan etc etc.......etc :rofl
The Ukraine :rofl they hate the US as much as the Russians
I am going to buy a second graphics card in fact i will buy 2 and throw one away :banana:
I am going to thrash jeeves he looks a bit Bolshy, its for his own good
:salute to our Russian allies who fought the Narzzies.
PJ is awesome
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on May 13, 2015, 05:07:44 AM
Of course I'm awesome ( :banana: ), this was already well established.
As for Predator's and your points, I see little in either that negates the other. He's talking about what Jeanne Kirkpatrick (at the time of "Star Wars", or, as we informed people like to call it: SDI) termed "playing monopoly while the Soviet Union plays Risk". You're talking about SDI as a means to that end. No societal surplus (disposable national income), no means to fund a sweet toy like SDI, no "gap" for the Soviets to try desperately (and fail, due to a systemic lack of productivity) to fill...
Inconsistent? No, no, dear boy... just, per usual, separated by a common language. He's getting upitty, as colonials are wont to do, because you've driven over in a lorry and put a bin liner in the can next to the loo. What he wanted was for you to drive over in a truck and put a garbage bag in the can next to the toilet.
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: zack1234 on May 13, 2015, 06:17:34 AM
Predetor also champions the Brewster I rest my case :)
Title: Re: VE day in Russia
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 13, 2015, 07:20:52 AM