Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Chris79 on May 14, 2015, 11:01:46 AM

Title: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Chris79 on May 14, 2015, 11:01:46 AM
This is more of an ENY question, why does the Yak9u have an ENY of 23 and the Yak3 have an ENY of 18? It seems to me that the Yak9u is more versatile then the Yak3. The Yak3 is a slightly better turn rate and rate of climb, the Yak9u is faster and dives a whole lot better. I feel the Yak9u's ability to boom into a furball at speeds 75 to 100mph faster then the Yak3 negates the slight turn and climb advantage that the Yak3 pocesses.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 11:11:14 AM
As far as I know usage numbers determine ENY/perk cost, not capability. It's a usage balancing tool. Although capability and usage numbers are usually closely related.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: -ammo- on May 14, 2015, 03:07:12 PM
As far as I know usage numbers determine ENY/perk cost, not capability. It's a usage balancing tool. Although capability and usage numbers are usually closely related.


Why does the CHog have a low ENY?  The 262??
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 03:11:16 PM
Because they're perked and awesome?
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: -ammo- on May 14, 2015, 03:17:00 PM
Because they're perked and awesome?

Well yea, I agree, but does not support your statement that "usage numbers determine ENY/Perk cost".  Be clear please
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: The Fugitive on May 14, 2015, 03:22:06 PM

Well yea, I agree, but does not support your statement that "usage numbers determine ENY/Perk cost".  Be clear please

If you were here when the chog  came out you would understand the usage part. It was wall to wall  chog when they came out, pretty much the only  thing in the air.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: -ammo- on May 14, 2015, 03:24:39 PM
If you were here when the chog  came out you would understand the usage part. It was wall to wall  chog when they came out, pretty much the only  thing in the air.


I was.  It wasn't the problem you make it out to be and I have always held the stance that HTC was wrong in perking it
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 03:28:32 PM
ENY limits the usage of the best planes when there is an imbalance in player numbers. So the horde can't use Chogs and 262s even if they have the perks. Also without a low ENY the perk rides would also be perk farmers which is counter productive to the whole perk system. A high ENY in aircraft that see little use is an incentive to use those rides to farm perks.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: -ammo- on May 14, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
ENY limits the usage of the best planes when there is an imbalance in player numbers. So the horde can't use Chogs and 262s even if they have the perks. Also without a low ENY the perk rides would also be perk farmers which is counter productive to the whole perk system. A high ENY in aircraft that see little use is an incentive to use those rides to farm perks.


I completely understand the idea of ENY but believe it was an HTC response to complaints from multiple subscribers that fell victim to a HO attack.


A Chog is not a deathstar
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 04:13:42 PM
HTC collects usage statistics I suspect...
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: -ammo- on May 14, 2015, 04:22:03 PM
As far as I know usage numbers determine ENY/perk cost, not capability. It's a usage balancing tool. Although capability and usage numbers are usually closely related.
Please elaborate to my response.  I believe we have established usage is NOT the only deciding factor
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 04:25:35 PM
I believe we have established usage is NOT the only deciding factor

What makes you believe that?
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 14, 2015, 04:28:53 PM
It is based on the estimated effectiveness of the plane. The ammo loadout, ord load out, fuel load, and the planes real capabilities compared to others, and the time it was used in the war. These all have a factor on the eny # it is given. While some planes could be disputed. I think the scale is very quite accurate. The yak3 holds and retains E better and turns better, so it could be more effective in the MA. Idk, most say that plane is a beast, but Im not that big on yaks.

Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 14, 2015, 04:38:07 PM
As far as I know usage numbers determine ENY/perk cost, not capability. It's a usage balancing tool. Although capability and usage numbers are usually closely related.

No, usage isn't factored in to determine ENY or perks.

ENY limits the usage of the best planes when there is an imbalance in player numbers. So the horde can't use Chogs and 262s even if they have the perks. Also without a low ENY the perk rides would also be perk farmers which is counter productive to the whole perk system. A high ENY in aircraft that see little use is an incentive to use those rides to farm perks.


A perked ride will never be a good perk farmer, as ENY does not determine the number of perks received at the end of your mission. 
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Lusche on May 14, 2015, 04:41:07 PM
as ENY does not determine the number of perks received at the end of your mission.

 :huh
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 04:54:12 PM
No, usage isn't factored in to determine ENY or perks.

Please back this up with something.


A perked ride will never be a good perk farmer, as ENY does not determine the number of perks received at the end of your mission. 

HiTech disagrees with you:


ENY stands for enemy value.

If a 262 has an ENY value of 5 and is killed by a plane with an ENY value of 30 then the killer would be awarded 30/5 I.E. 6 points. if the 262 killed the other plane he would be awarded 5/30 I.E. 0.166 points.

Now there is a bonus multiplier based on the current balance of countries. This modifies the perk points simply by multiplying the above outcome times the bonus.

HiTech
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 14, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Now, I think changing the ENY system to a purely proportional system would do two things.  First, it would lead to a greater number of perk planes flying around. (snip)

Second, I think it would lead to an increased number of 'under-utilized" planes being flown.  Depending on how much someone wants to fly some perk plane, they might go with a middle of the road plane like the La-5 or the 109G-2, or a completely ununsed plane like the C202 or P-40.  Either way, diversity in the MA will increase on that end. 


Urchin: And exactly how do you fit the perk planes ENY value into this skeam? Btw it basicly how we set the values already, and they are NOT random.

Another thing your system does not take into account is plane popularity based soly on a historical basis. i.e. just because a plane has more kills and is flown more, dosn't make it the better plane.

HiTech
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: FLOOB on May 14, 2015, 05:13:06 PM
No, usage isn't factored in to determine ENY or perks.

A perked ride will never be a good perk farmer, as ENY does not determine the number of perks received at the end of your mission.
Highly montruvious!
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Chris79 on May 14, 2015, 06:29:30 PM
It seems as though that this was the incorrect place to ask the original question.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 15, 2015, 07:56:43 AM
Since it was really a question of game mechanics the general section would probably be better.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Slade on May 15, 2015, 10:56:54 AM
Quote
The Yak3 is a slightly better turn rate

Nope.

Yak3 = 666
Yak9-u = 643

Consult Mossy's turn radius stats\info if you need more details.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: bustr on May 15, 2015, 05:51:08 PM
So does the Yak3 not turn inside of the Yak9u? But, then one would have to look at that by speed or even flaps deployment I guess.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: pembquist on May 15, 2015, 06:36:28 PM
i'm going to have to try this yaku you speak of. The -3 feels like a magic plane without much ammo. I assumed it was better since it is easy to fly and goes up like a rocket. This is all first impressions from me from the mediocre cohort. Maybe its just easier to stay alive or get kills in. Your saying in skilled hands the-3 is less capable so maybe its that in unskilled hands the -3 is more capable?
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: WWhiskey on May 15, 2015, 06:59:23 PM
i'm going to have to try this yaku you speak of. The -3 feels like a magic plane without much ammo. I assumed it was better since it is easy to fly and goes up like a rocket. This is all first impressions from me from the mediocre cohort. Maybe its just easier to stay alive or get kills in. Your saying in skilled hands the-3 is less capable so maybe its that in unskilled hands the -3 is more capable?
the three is fun,, its main thing is, it's small!!
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: save on May 15, 2015, 07:17:53 PM

I completely understand the idea of ENY but believe it was an HTC response to complaints from multiple subscribers that fell victim to a HO attack.


A Chog is not a deathstar

In that case the ME-410 with Mk103's should be the highest perked bird  :D

C-hog had a very  high K/d ratio and no-one  flew any other F4u type, much like if they put 4*Hispano and 4*.50 on a A20, or a 3-gun La-7  :cool:

To ack-ack : The A8 ENY was lowered from 25 to 20 according to Karnak because of it's higher usage, even though the A5 normally have a higher k/d ratio.

The Me-410 is an example how a single player can completely change the usage of a model and its K/D (Torquila april 2015 tour)

Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: FBKampfer on May 16, 2015, 12:01:44 AM
The Yak-9U is quite capable. While the -9T is a paragon of average, the greater engine power of the -9U makes it a real killer when in the hands of a capable pilot.

One thing the Yak-3 did for the game (besides flooding the game with aircraft powered by magic instead of avgas) is that it took a lot of the mediocre and average sticks from the -9. Now if I see one, I know I'm in for a fight.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Squire on May 16, 2015, 02:39:44 AM
Quote
(besides flooding the game with aircraft powered by magic instead of avgas)

You have some data of course. Tell us what specifically it does that it should not.

...past you not liking it.

?
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 16, 2015, 08:39:45 AM
There should be a natural perk point cost on the Yak-3 since pressed unicorn juice is a very difficult fuel to come by.  :P
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: bozon on May 16, 2015, 09:49:10 AM
There should be a natural perk point cost on the Yak-3 since pressed unicorn juice is a very difficult fuel to come by.  :P
There should be a smurf and unicorn juice factory included in the start system. If you bomb it to 0% yak3 are disabled.

You have some data of course. Tell us what specifically it does that it should not.

...past you not liking it.

?
Check out the past threads about its adamantium armor modeling and its 100 mph anti gravity device.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2015, 10:51:56 AM
My understanding is that it is not usage per se so much as effect on the arena.  Usage usually tracks that pretty closely, but there can be exceptions.

Also keep in mind that it is not the only factor.  The unit's capability is a factor as well.  No matter how many people choose to fly C.202s and Spitfire Mk Is they will never have the ENY of the P-51D or Spitfire Mk XVI.
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: save on May 16, 2015, 11:30:46 AM
For Bozon's proof reference : pictures with proof of yak3 damage model problem.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,369327.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,369327.0.html)
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: Squire on May 18, 2015, 04:20:06 PM
Well I will take Unicorn Juice over 150 avgas.  :)
Title: Re: Yak9U vs Yak3
Post by: FBKampfer on May 18, 2015, 04:39:20 PM
Well I will take Unicorn Juice over 150 avgas.  :)

We all would. My K4 could reach orbit from 5mph, turn inside a Spit 5, and withstand direct hits from 5"ers. I suspect if I collected and pressurised it's farts, I could use it in place of the MW 50 boost and the 30mm would have the ballistics of Mk 103, and the stopping power of the BK 5.