General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Arlo on June 01, 2015, 11:54:09 AM
Title: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Arlo on June 01, 2015, 11:54:09 AM
If it ain't compat, I'll skip it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Bizman on June 01, 2015, 12:52:48 PM
In another thread I suggested to download it but do the installation on a separate empty disk. If the upgrade needs to be installed over an existing legal version of Windows, I can think about two alternative ways which should minimize the problems usually combined with an upgrade:
The better way is to install Windows as an evaluation version, i.e. without any license code. Just make sure to install the same version that you've got the license for. That will give you a fully legitimate Windows to upgrade from without any version specific issues causing trouble. This feature has been discussed in several newsletters and other media since the publishing of Vista, so if it still works it has to be in purpose.
If the upgrade version has to be installed over a previous version of Windows, I'd do a clean install on a fresh hard disk and activate it right away. Then, before even installing any other than network drivers, I'd do the upgrade.
The third option - yes, I said two but this doesn't fit into the category of minimized risk - would be to clone the existing hard drive and upgrade the clone. Before doing that I'd try to do everything to get a lean, clean system to start with.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: 68Raptor on June 02, 2015, 08:16:52 AM
So do we know if Aces High works on Windows 10?
I just got my little notification by the clock to do the download when it's available.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 02, 2015, 08:43:15 AM
Unless Microsoft sabotaged DirectX, or all other Windows applications, it should work fine.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Arlo on June 02, 2015, 09:06:50 AM
Thanks. I will be assimilated.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 02, 2015, 10:12:36 AM
I just got my little notification by the clock to do the download when it's available.
Yes we know as I've been playing AH with Win10 since october.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Rodent57 on June 06, 2015, 05:52:17 PM
I'll resist it until my 'Roids bleed!
I (being a non-skuzzy-like interoperability challenged goob) would rather lick the gum wall in Seattle than experience the joy of ANOTHER Windows release...
For goodness sake, haven't we all learned from Vista, Windows 8 ... then 8.1 when the numbskulls realized that NOT EVERYONE in the world carries 4 handheld devices?
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DONT FIX IT!
there, I feel better.
-Rodent57
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 07, 2015, 03:35:13 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Rodent57 on June 07, 2015, 08:23:24 AM
That's just silly!
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 07, 2015, 08:31:27 AM
See Rules #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 08, 2015, 06:45:09 AM
You are regurgitating marketing information as fact, again. Not going to be drawn into a time wasting discussion, with you, about it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 08, 2015, 09:24:00 AM
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 08, 2015, 10:22:35 AM
And again, if one wants to exploit something for the purposes of showing it in a best case scenario, then it is quite easy to do. Does that reflect reality? No, it never has and it never will.
Have you actually done any tests to see if reality comes close to these reports? I know you have not, as I have and they don't. It is hit and miss, at best. Of course, I am not going to run things for the purpose of showing a best case light. I prefer three cases. Best, worst, and average. It tends to be more reflective of reality.
Now, show me a site who has done that, and then you will have something to talk about.
How many times do you have to be shown that best case scenarios never reflect the real world? They are for wowing the ignorant so they will propagate that "fluffy" information. Marketing at its best.
There are already real world reports, floating to the surface, showing the lack of any performance gains in many situations.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 08, 2015, 02:04:41 PM
And again, if one wants to exploit something for the purposes of showing it in a best case scenario, then it is quite easy to do. Does that reflect reality? No, it never has and it never will.
Have you actually done any tests to see if reality comes close to these reports? I know you have not, as I have and they don't. It is hit and miss, at best. Of course, I am not going to run things for the purpose of showing a best case light. I prefer three cases. Best, worst, and average. It tends to be more reflective of reality.
Now, show me a site who has done that, and then you will have something to talk about.
How many times do you have to be shown that best case scenarios never reflect the real world? They are for wowing the ignorant so they will propagate that "fluffy" information. Marketing at its best.
There are already real world reports, floating to the surface, showing the lack of any performance gains in many situations.
I don't have any DX12 titles to test so it's quite hard to test them. The reviewers obviously have and I doubt MS could lie very much in the publications either, they'd get sued for fraud.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 08, 2015, 04:13:44 PM
I don't have any DX12 titles to test so it's quite hard to test them. The reviewers obviously have and I doubt MS could lie very much in the publications either, they'd get sued for fraud.
It is not about deceit or lies. It is marketing. Put the best numbers you can out there, whether or not they can be realized in the real world, or not, does not matter.
If they can create one case where they can get an order of magnitude better, then they will exploit it in marketing.
This is standard stuff.
Here is how you do it. You find a poorly coded application. Provide engineers to re-write the code to exploit the changes made in DX, then market the crap out of that. It is standard practice.
There are improvements in DX12, but no one is going to see a consistent ten times improvement in performance. It will depend on the application and how things are being done.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Arlo on June 08, 2015, 05:45:32 PM
Not going to be drawn into a time wasting discussion, with you, about it.
Ahem! :old:
(I blame me.)
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: SirNuke on June 08, 2015, 05:58:14 PM
I ignored win8 becuse its interface is terrible and that I was sure not to support at work, bit I might pickup this one as the license is 'free' :) If the adoption rate is good I'll consider doing a MS certification...
I don't expect a big change in performance with windows until they touch the task managing, and break the backward compatibility in the process...
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Bruv119 on June 26, 2015, 05:04:33 AM
so whats the lowdown? I'm a little wary that if microsoft are giving away something for free it is bound to be toejame?
I also received the offer of upgrade on latest windows update.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 26, 2015, 06:20:25 AM
Microsoft has announced Windows 10 is the last version of Windows they are going to ship. From this point forward they are going to treat the operating system as a service.
They have not fully defined what they mean as a "service". Expect a massive migration to their cloud in the near future as they have said they are shifting focus to building a bigger cloud service.
It has been no secret they want to move the operating system to the cloud. It was just a matter of when. How they envision that working has yet to be announced.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Randy1 on June 26, 2015, 07:07:25 AM
I would imagine their primary goal is to reduce staffing to maintain stock prices while increasing their control. Screw the employee is the very best way to make big money.
I would guess as well with a free update they can justify stopping any support and updates on current supported os like w7.
Free gives them tremendous leverage.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Greebo on June 26, 2015, 07:10:46 AM
I'm going to download the Windows 10 update when it is available. However I will check out the various user forums for the hardware and software I have to see if there are any specific issues before I risk installing it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 26, 2015, 01:15:02 PM
I'm going to download the Windows 10 update when it is available. However I will check out the various user forums for the hardware and software I have to see if there are any specific issues before I risk installing it.
Win10 has performed pretty much flawlessly in the 3 computers I'm running it on. There were some teething problems but they were all caused by third party software problems.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Randy1 on June 26, 2015, 03:10:53 PM
I assume w10 free upgrade will be the last update for any of their earlier os systems. Should end any legacy updates. Kind of w10 or nothing.
Somehow the years back "New Coke" comes to mind.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 26, 2015, 04:37:14 PM
What Microsoft says they will do today, and what they do tomorrow sometimes does not match. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Randy1 on June 27, 2015, 07:43:43 AM
Given the number of patches Microsoft has had problems with this last year, there is no way I would allow them to force feed patches and updates to my computer.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 29, 2015, 10:44:29 AM
Given the number of patches Microsoft has had problems with this last year, there is no way I would allow them to force feed patches and updates to my computer.
TBH that's probably for the best of the average home user. Unpatched windows boxes are the botnet haven. I have my Win10 boxes set to fast updates and they're working like a charm. Better that than an infected box.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on June 29, 2015, 11:04:36 AM
TBH that's probably for the best of the average home user. Unpatched windows boxes are the botnet haven. I have my Win10 boxes set to fast updates and they're working like a charm. Better that than an infected box.
It really is a bad thing, as they are not just forcing security updates, but also feature updates. They have had a lot of problems maintaining application compatibility with those updates along with other issues which cause most people to wait until they are settled before adopting them.
That is what we do here.
Microsoft has been updating things, without our knowledge for years, but it has only impacted a narrow scope of items in the operating system. To do it on a wholesale basis though. They have proven to have a system updater which will not recover from a bad update, on its own.
No thank you.
It would be friendlier and less intrusive to force us to notice there are updates available and what they are for. If a user wants to let their computer become infested with garbage, then let them. It is not like those users are going to do what it takes to protect their computer anyway.
If this was about security, then Microsoft should alter the default security settings for the operating system. That would stop most garbage right out of the box.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 29, 2015, 01:04:11 PM
Well I guess you 1 OS guys are SOL then :D
Which is fine with me. As long as games continue to work MS can do whatever it likes as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: 715 on June 29, 2015, 03:18:41 PM
Which is fine with me. As long as games continue to work MS can do whatever it likes as far as I'm concerned.
I presume you mean you run Linux for non gaming use? (As do I.) Have you been able to do a dual boot with Win 10 or does the UEFI (sp?) mess with that?
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Dragon Tamer on June 29, 2015, 05:43:38 PM
I presume you mean you run Linux for non gaming use? (As do I.) Have you been able to do a dual boot with Win 10 or does the UEFI (sp?) mess with that?
I had a dual boot going with a partitioned hard drive for a while. It went well until the original OS died. After that I wasn't even able to repair the OS. Looking back now, if I had disabled the HD while the repair disk was in, everything would have been fine... :noid
Windows 10 doesn't play nice with other operating systems and, from what I've heard is really hard to downgrade to an older OS (it can be done but is more complicated than it needs to be).
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2015, 02:10:37 AM
I presume you mean you run Linux for non gaming use? (As do I.) Have you been able to do a dual boot with Win 10 or does the UEFI (sp?) mess with that?
Nowadays I can also game with linux but unfortunately it comes with a performance penalty of 40-50%. I use OSX for daily office work.
You can dual boot with Windows 10 but you can't use the secure boot option then. Not a problem really.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Drane on July 11, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
Recently read microsoft announced windows 10 upgrade is free for a year, then you have to pay for it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: zack1234 on July 11, 2015, 05:09:50 PM
R u sure?
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Drane on July 11, 2015, 08:11:18 PM
Oops, Sorry Drane. I thought you meant we could use Win 10 for a year, but then had to pay for it. :bolt:
Coogan
When reading it again, I could see where you're coming from. Glad you said something because now we know for sure. :cheers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Article_86 on July 22, 2015, 05:18:25 PM
"Windows 10 Signifies Microsoft’s Shift in Strategy"
Definitive article in the New York Times. The mystery seems over. NYT on-line reader is great - I recommend.
- Art
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 26, 2015, 02:40:14 AM
Latest news say Windows 10 home version will have forced windows update with drivers!!!! Only pro and enterprise versions have control over updates.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on July 27, 2015, 03:45:02 PM
There is an update which will allow people to block updates.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
It remains to be seen if Microsoft is going to allow this to continue to work after Windows 10 goes live.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: charlton1 on July 29, 2015, 04:12:57 PM
Meh, just stop using windows, it's terribile in every single way. You could never control what windows does, the whole operating system is proprietary so it can never give you full control over what it does. Now instead of paying money for this nonfree software, Microsoft uses you to collect data and sells it to advertisers(really anyone willing to pay for your data and perhaps the NSA gets a special deal). Effectively and literally Microsoft is changing it's business model to reflect more on Google's. Windows doesn't get spyware, it is spyware. Windows doesn't have users, it has useds. Not to mention how technically inferior it is to other operating systems. It's just now getting out of the box disk encryption and disk compression support and just now getting OpenSSH support after more than 15 years later. Advertising desktop workspaces as a new feature in 2015 is joke, how can you take the crap seriously? I have been using virtual desktops or workspaces in GNU/Linux for over a decade now. BSD also had this.
My guess is that the only way to prevent windows from phoning home is to block all network connections or filter them, but either way you will not recieve updates. The network traffic is likely to be encrypted so it would be impossible to see what data is being sent to microsoft even if you monitor all of it with wireshark. It was once possible to manually download the patches without phoning home to microsoft but it is probably impossible now, it would be too much work to do anyway. I doubt anyone still does this. Though imo it doesn't make any sense to care that the updates are forced when the software already installed is already enough force to care about. And even if there isn't any backdoor currently present in windows today there can be tomorrow. But of course we already know that windows having intentional backdoors is irrelevent when they already help the NSA exploit known flaws in windows so that they can spy on people. We know this as fact thanks to Edward Snowden who released the documents that proved it: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
This makes anyone using Microsoft Windows or services a sucker or a willful moron. Of course, all this could be applied to Mac OS and the i-things as well, even Ubuntu as some spyware in it(although it is much less). And there are many other platforms that abuse you as well, but Windows 10 might the worse yet, though it is in tuff competition with iphones and Android isn't much better(only ever so slightly). The best thing to do is just to avoid these companies entirely because they have only been getting worse. It's like trying to get your friend to quit smoking by buying him cigarettes. By continuing to be their useds, they will have no incentive to change and all the more to continue to abuse you.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Spikes on July 29, 2015, 04:24:46 PM
So if you don't suggest using Windows, OSX, or Ubuntu, what DO you suggest?
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: 100Coogn on July 29, 2015, 04:32:37 PM
Meh, just stop using windows, it's terribile in every single way. You could never control what windows does, the whole operating system is proprietary so it can never give you full control over what it does. Now instead of paying money for this nonfree software, Microsoft uses you to collect data and sells it to advertisers(really anyone willing to pay for your data and perhaps the NSA gets a special deal). Effectively and literally Microsoft is changing it's business model to reflect more on Google's. Windows doesn't get spyware, it is spyware. Windows doesn't have users, it has useds. Not to mention how technically inferior it is to other operating systems. It's just now getting out of the box disk encryption and disk compression support and just now getting OpenSSH support after more than 15 years later. Advertising desktop workspaces as a new feature in 2015 is joke, how can you take the crap seriously? I have been using virtual desktops or workspaces in GNU/Linux for over a decade now. BSD also had this.
My guess is that the only way to prevent windows from phoning home is to block all network connections or filter them, but either way you will not recieve updates. The network traffic is likely to be encrypted so it would be impossible to see what data is being sent to microsoft even if you monitor all of it with wireshark. It was once possible to manually download the patches without phoning home to microsoft but it is probably impossible now, it would be too much work to do anyway. I doubt anyone still does this. Though imo it doesn't make any sense to care that the updates are forced when the software already installed is already enough force to care about. And even if there isn't any backdoor currently present in windows today there can be tomorrow. But of course we already know that windows having intentional backdoors is irrelevent when they already help the NSA exploit known flaws in windows so that they can spy on people. We know this as fact thanks to Edward Snowden who released the documents that proved it: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
This makes anyone using Microsoft Windows or services a sucker or a willful moron. Of course, all this could be applied to Mac OS and the i-things as well, even Ubuntu as some spyware in it(although it is much less). And there are many other platforms that abuse you as well, but Windows 10 might the worse yet, though it is in tuff competition with iphones and Android isn't much better(only ever so slightly). The best thing to do is just to avoid these companies entirely because they have only been getting worse. It's like trying to get your friend to quit smoking by buying him cigarettes. By continuing to be their useds, they will have no incentive to change and all the more to continue to abuse you.
If the 'spyware' you refer to in Ubuntu is zeitgeist, that can be uninstalled with a single command. And it's not even installed by default to anything but vanilla Ubuntu. Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu Mate etc. do not have zeitgeist by default.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 30, 2015, 03:30:56 AM
Amd developers seem to be really excited about DirectX12 that ships with Windows 10. They claim you can get 100 times improvement on certain tasks on existing hardware.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2015, 06:29:08 AM
Amd developers seem to be really excited about DirectX12 that ships with Windows 10. They claim you can get 100 times improvement on certain tasks on existing hardware.
They also claimed HBM memory would deliver 100 times the bandwidth and that did not happen either.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Bizman on July 30, 2015, 06:58:36 AM
Even if both 100x claims were true, the big question would be if they will ever be taken into production. A couple of decades ago Matsushita launched a new floppy drive that could store a whopping 32 Mb on a single inexpensive disk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk). Has any of you ever used or even seen one?
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 30, 2015, 09:09:37 AM
Even if both 100x claims were true, the big question would be if they will ever be taken into production. A couple of decades ago Matsushita launched a new floppy drive that could store a whopping 32 Mb on a single inexpensive disk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk). Has any of you ever used or even seen one?
My school had a couple of those lying around, I wasn't allowed to play with them though... :cry
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 30, 2015, 11:21:32 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: BoilerDown on July 30, 2015, 11:23:32 AM
Even if both 100x claims were true, the big question would be if they will ever be taken into production. A couple of decades ago Matsushita launched a new floppy drive that could store a whopping 32 Mb on a single inexpensive disk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk). Has any of you ever used or even seen one?
Not that, but similar. At my old job (when I first joined these forums), I was working IT for a small research pharmaceutical lab. 80ish employees, two IT staff. My boss decided we needed to have read-only files on the network, so that we could prove to any future FDA inspectors that files haven't been changed, in accordance with our QA director's interpretation of 21 CFR part 11. They decided that marking files read only wasn't good enough, they wanted physically unchangable files.
I recommended burning files to CDs placed into banks of SCSI CD-ROM drives in a networked server, but my boss wanted an alternative recommendation as well. I made Castlewood Orb Drives as the alternate, but strongly suggested the CD-ROM solution. He decided to go with the Orb Drives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlewood_Orb_Drive). It was unwieldy, proprietary, would get "stuck" frequently and require a power cycle, and would never benefit from the economies of scale that CD-R would, so was vastly more expensive. Eventually the QA director relented and allowed files to be placed as read-only on the network and I put those damn drives in a cardboard box to be forgotten about.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 30, 2015, 12:25:23 PM
Ok, a new try without remarks about...
Quote
In the best-case scenario HBM2 memory chips will feature 8GB capacity (8Hi stack) with 256GB/s bandwidth (2Gb/s data rate, 1024-bit bus). Such HBM2 devices will let developers of graphics processing units to build graphics adapters with 32GB of onboard memory and incredible 1TB/s peak bandwidth. Nvidia Corp. has already announced that its next-generation code-named “Pascal” graphics processing architecture will support up to 32GB of HBM2. Mainstream HBM2 ICs will likely sport 2GB (2Hi stack) or 4GB (4Hi stack) capacities with 1.6Gb/s data rate (204.8GB/s bandwidth per chip), which should be more than enough for high-performance graphics cards in 2016.
The Titan X has 336Gb/s bandwith so this second iteration of HBM is already 3 times faster and future revisions will with no doubt achieve the promised 100x bandwidth. Imagine loading game levels with 30 gigabytes of textures using a regular hdd - your levels will literally load for hours lol.
Both AMD and Nvidia have announced they will switch to HBM in their future high-end architectures.
Now, with Intels announcement of functioning 3D X-point memory which is shown to boost endurance up to 1000x and speed up to 1000x compared to old SSD solutions, things look really interesting. Basically in the future a computer wouldn't require a separate hard drive and ram, you could access the solid state drive at ram speeds (if even NVMe would be fast enough for that). The bus will be the limiting factor for some time.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2015, 02:27:41 PM
First off, the HBM numbers are not fixed and are going to vary. The hardware design will work best when data is read/written in a very sequential manner. This is not something anyone or any driver has control over. It is seldom the data will be loaded in the exact order it will be drawn in.
We have already seen real world results which indicate HBM is not a huge factor in performance. That is to be expected, regardless of what the marketing papers say.
Now, the Intel/Micron memory chips (looks a lot like a memristor) show far more promise.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 30, 2015, 02:48:40 PM
First off, the HBM numbers are not fixed and are going to vary. The hardware design will work best when data is read/written in a very sequential manner. This is not something anyone or any driver has control over. It is seldom the data will be loaded in the exact order it will be drawn in.
We have already seen real world results which indicate HBM is not a huge factor in performance. That is to be expected, regardless of what the marketing papers say.
Now, the Intel/Micron memory chips (looks a lot like a memristor) show far more promise.
The first generation of HBM was limited to 4Gb and was one quarter the speed of HBM2. It's too early to draw any conclusions on that. You might as well say that because T-model Ford couldn't achieve the 200mph mark promised by todays tech, it can't be achieved.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: BoilerDown on July 30, 2015, 03:00:38 PM
90-Day Free Trial of Windows 10 Enterprise: http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-launches-free-90-day-trial-version-of-windows-10
Quote
Most of the apps that come with Windows 10 Home and Pro aren't available in the Enterprise edition. So you won't find Mail, Calendar, People, Photos, Cortana or other apps. And the Windows app store isn't available either, so you can't download apps. But despite these limitations, the Enterprise edition at least gives you a taste of Windows 10.
Haha, so they removed all the crap I don't want in my Windows 10 anyways, and Enterprise has control of when and how updates are done.
How do I legally license one copy of Windows 10 Enterprise? Can I be an Enterprise of one, maybe four at most, some later day?
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2015, 03:16:03 PM
The first generation of HBM was limited to 4Gb and was one quarter the speed of HBM2. It's too early to draw any conclusions on that. You might as well say that because T-model Ford couldn't achieve the 200mph mark promised by todays tech, it can't be achieved.
Except I am an electrical design engineer and have plenty of background in determining what silicon can do and how it works. Everything I have said about HBM has managed to come true, so far.
HBM's design will never provide the 100 times speed the marketing papers tout, except in rare instances, or in fixed benchmarks which are designed to bring out the best possible performance case. If they manage to get 100 times the bandwidth then please feel free to point at this thread and remind me of what I said.
Products are shipping using HBM. The lack of performance gained has been noted and tested very well. Please note, AMD is the one who established the expectations they could not live up to and they knew it going out the door.
Your opinion it is going to get better is just that. I am happy to wait and see what the next revisions show in the real world. I do not expect much, but we will see.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: GSakis on July 30, 2015, 04:10:01 PM
Except I am an electrical design engineer and have plenty of background in determining what silicon can do and how it works. Everything I have said about HBM has managed to come true, so far.
HBM's design will never provide the 100 times speed the marketing papers tout, except in rare instances, or in fixed benchmarks which are designed to bring out the best possible performance case. If they manage to get 100 times the bandwidth then please feel free to point at this thread and remind me of what I said.
Products are shipping using HBM. The lack of performance gained has been noted and tested very well. Please note, AMD is the one who established the expectations they could not live up to and they knew it going out the door.
Your opinion it is going to get better is just that. I am happy to wait and see what the next revisions show in the real world. I do not expect much, but we will see.
Since both AMD and Nvidia are betting on HBM on their future high performance models it's pretty safe to say the first generation products were launched prematurely and were a disappointment. Nvidia probably realised that because they held untill hbm2 for their release. AMD being the underdog wanted to cash in the free publicity of being the first to use HBM even though they probably realized it was going to dog out.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2015, 04:20:58 PM
HBM saves money on real estate, making it a no-brainer to go to as long as the performance is the same, or better, than other technologies.
Title: Re: Windows 10 is coming
Post by: Chalenge on July 30, 2015, 04:31:03 PM
Reminds me of the IBM magnetic core memory plane to SLT design innovation that eventually went in this same direction.