Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Spitter on June 21, 2015, 04:34:33 PM
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So my buddy and I are finally going to do the http://www.fightercombat.com/ weekend combat program, next April, for our birthdays.
I want to win..... :grin:
So, I believe both fights start with a merge, passing on the left, then fight on. Hardware: We will both be flying Extra 300 aircraft.
I am thinking Split S to get in his blind spot as quickly as possible, but if he's pulling hard either left or right, I doubt I will 'disappear' before he, or his spotter, gets eyeballs on me.
Thoughts and recommendations? I've done very little 1v1 dueling. Links to videos will be appreciated. Also, if I can get AH2 to run on my system, would anyone be willing to do the direct link thing, since I currently don't have an AH subscription (I do plan to remedy that when I get some new hardware).
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Always go up :cheers:
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HO then run to the ack :aok
Oh and if he wins, dont forget to get on the radio and call him a cable puller and how real planes cant turn like that :D
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Always go up :cheers:
:aok
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I want to win..... :grin:
I am thinking Split S
:rofl
Couldn't resist. :D
Forget about blind spots, it's just you and him. Focus on position and energy. It won't matter if he can see you or not if you stall trying to catch him.
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Blind spots arent blind that long in a plane than roll at 400deg/sec...
I would say that since u prob will be unfamiliar with the aicrafts the outcome will be determinated by hwo of u that can control the plane best, neither one of u will prob be able to use the planes full capability so it is not all about using the right tactic.
But one tip is to use the incredible roll rate to mess up his "shot" if he gets on your 6.
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In b4 collision model complaints.
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In b4 collision model complaints.
Also worth mentioning: Since there will be no net lag u wont have any problem with the collision model...
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Co Alt, Co E with the same aircraft....it's down to who makes the fewest mistakes. I'd definitely go for an energy advantage, especially if your friend is less versed in ACM.
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I wouldnt have bothered too much about tactic etc. First of all its very hard to make up a strategy prior to the "fight" that really works and most of all: If i were u my main goal was to have fun, if u are too much focused on getting "kills" and trying to BnZ your friend u will ruin much of the fun.
My tips is that u should just engange in a turn fight and trying to win by learning to fly closer to the stall than your friend.
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Good choice for first move is an Immelman or steep high yo yo.
Plan on everything you know working in AH (other than weird accelerated-stall moves) to work the same way in the real dogfight. That was my experience at Air Combat USA in Marchetti SF-260's.
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Things not to try:
1. Cutting your engine.
2. HO shot on the first merge.
3. Running to the ack.
4. Running to the CV.
5. Vulching your friend on the runway.
6. The Latrobe Tail Slide.
7. Streaming porn in the background to affect your ping rates.
8. Dropping your gear.
9. Accusing your opponent of hacking on Channel 200.
10. Complaining to HiTech after you lose.
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practice vomiting
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practice vomiting
Yeah, that's gonna be critical, especially negative g.
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Good luck man that is a dream of mine!
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Yeah, that's gonna be critical, especially negative g.
Yes, try a hard negative G evasive and see why it was very rarely used.
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If flying aces high was like real flight...I could give you some tips...but alas um just a virtual dogfighter :aok
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Use the sun to your advantage. Also England management is key
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So my buddy and I are finally going to do the http://www.fightercombat.com/ weekend combat program, next April, for our birthdays.
I want to win..... :grin:
So, I believe both fights start with a merge, passing on the left, then fight on. Hardware: We will both be flying Extra 300 aircraft.
I am thinking Split S to get in his blind spot as quickly as possible, but if he's pulling hard either left or right, I doubt I will 'disappear' before he, or his spotter, gets eyeballs on me.
Thoughts and recommendations? I've done very little 1v1 dueling. Links to videos will be appreciated. Also, if I can get AH2 to run on my system, would anyone be willing to do the direct link thing, since I currently don't have an AH subscription (I do plan to remedy that when I get some new hardware).
On the first merge, use Emmilmans (opposite of split S) to get above your opponent. Make sure you are light on the controls and conserve as much speed as you can in the climb up, roll over just before stalling speed and level out (search for him, if he does a horizontal turn, you can use alt advantage from the loop to dive on him and get an angle). Make sure you use ailerons to roll first, and then use elevator to climb up or down (helps keep E stable). You want to keep as much E as possible and have to be easy on the controls. Use ailerons to avoid shots. During the "scissors" try to get height advantage and cut in over the top of him, then (if you have the speed) attempt a loop over the top and you will be able to come around on him as he is stalling out. Make sure to use a lot of rudder. Rudder is key to getting nose in certain positions and can help a lot to cut in more quickly and to set up shots.
Watch dueling videos and learn what BCM and ACM are so you have an idea of what to expect to do when you fight him.
If he gets on your 6, do nose down turns or split Ss to make getting a shot difficult.
My best tip is to always try to go vertical before you go horizontal. If you go vertical and they go horizontal, you will be able to create better angles and achieve snap shots. Use loops to get inside the opponent rather than turns to get inside for quick snap shots.
Hope that makes since!
Good luck! Sounds like a blast!
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IMMELMANN!!! with an "I" !!! :old:
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Thoughts and recommendations?
Heh. Try not to over-control. It is easier than you think to pull those planes into a high-speed stall.
Don't take your eyes off your opponent. You'll be finding out how hard it is to spot, and keep sight of, a plane that doesn't have a red icon above it, particularly if you're pulling significant Gs.
Eat a bland diet before the flight and know where the barf bag is. (My opponent didn't pay attention to that.)
Otherwise all the things you learn here will be useful there.
- oldman
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May I ask what kind of experience u have from flying IRL?
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Having done the Extra300 version, GUARD THE THROTTLE. If you are dominating, they will try to nerf you by killing your E potential for the other guy.
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You guys crack me up. So I can't count on the lag for a win, eh? That makes things more complicated... :rolleyes:
I've watched their videos, and it looks like the coach in the back seat is constantly giving directions when they are pulling hard (let off, pull hard, repeat) I assume to take advantage of the optimum turn rate and how quickly this plane builds E. I haven't figured out how to get an icon over his plane yet, but I'm working on it!
I plan on eating a very light breakfast that morning though.
I do have a fair amount of seat time, and even a little bit in an aerobatic aircraft (T-34B), but that was a long time ago. I've done a bit of flying for fun with a friend (his plane) in the last couple years, too. It's nice having friends with planes.... ;)
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And here I thought this was going to be a Michael Vick kind of thread. Good to be wrong.
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Be ready to puke. Seriously. Always go up. And stay coordinated. The biggest advantage you can have is making sure your moves are smooth and coordinated, because the sloppiest stick burns the most E, and makes the most mistakes.
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Your first move should be whatever it takes to counter his first move. Remember, he wants to win also. Following these "always...." moves is going to put you on the defense and lose the fight. If you know how to apply BFM, there's a fighting chance. If you don't, not so much.
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In b4 collision model complaints.
I was going to suggest he just ram him and hope the other guys end see it and his end doesnt :lol
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If the flat plate fails do that floppy fish move.
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Keep going after the merge and 'rope a dope'. Same aircraft, so you can't outrun him and can't outturn him (both pilots being equal). Conserve your energy and go into a long but steepening, climbing turn after he reverses to get behind you. You'll be faster and will have a lot more 'smash' to extend and get him to bite when you climb, then drop on him from above when he has to break off due to his inability to maintain the chase.
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I would love to do like 3 weeks of the wingman thing. drag a squaddie along. or vraciu or maybe muzzy.
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Is there a stuff like that somewhere in Europe?
Even Aerobatics only?
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You should definitely post videos of what its like here.
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Also, if you get into a stalemate, circling stallfight on the hard deck, and if the plane you are in has flaps, ask the instructor pilot to drop a notch of flaps.
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on the way to the place be sure to fill up on Chile dogs and Coke.
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Eat bananas before the flight:
- they give you blood sugar
- they taste the same on the way down and the way back up ;)
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I would love to do like 3 weeks of the wingman thing. drag a squaddie along. or vraciu or maybe muzzy.
That would be a blast. :airplane:
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Try to cheat to be a little lower than the other plane at the merge, but already pulling up in your lead-turn as if you're just trying to get back to co-altitude. Don't go pure vertical, but bias it oblique a bit towards wherever the sun is to make it harder for the other guy to see. In the first part of the turn aim for 3-4 G's but back off on the G's a bit as you pass vertical so you don't pull it into a stall going over the top. If you float a vertical turn (immelman, loop, whatever), you'll gain lots of altitude but you'll have a huge turn circle and be slow/helpless at the top if the other guy went up too but turned inside you, and he may win with a vertical snap-shot as you float over the top.
When very very slow, don't be afraid of nudging the rudder a bit if you need the nose to go one way or another, but also be prepared to IMMEDIATELY apply opposite rudder and move the stick fwd a bit if the nose starts slicing, especially with the power still up. Power on spin entries can be violent so listen to what the IP says you can and can't do.
Don't try negative G maneuvers unless you like chewing second-hand banana.
Eat a little protein too in your pre-flight breakfast. Egg has worked good for me in my flying career.
Stay hydrated but not so much before flight that you have to pee before the flight is over. The last thing you do before you step out of the building to go fly is make one last bathroom stop. Seriously, don't pass up a chance to pee. Ever.
Watch getting the nose buried downhill. If you get going fast the instructor WILL intervene. If you try a split-S, make sure you're fairly slow to begin with and get on the pull early or you'll get going too fast and you'll either end up with a HUGE turn circle that the opponent can cut inside, or your IP will intervene.
Keep the ball centered if you're in a rate fight (level turn fight going 'round and 'round). Don't get greedy until you're SURE you can cash in any extra speed to get the other plane in your gunsight.
A rolling scissors is cool but often degenerates quickly into a flat scissors. If it keeps rolling, one or both planes will often go through the floor which ends the engagement.
Pull to the other guy's high-6.
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Try to cheat to be a little lower than the other plane at the merge, but already pulling up in your lead-turn as if you're just trying to get back to co-altitude. Don't go pure vertical, but bias it oblique a bit towards wherever the sun is to make it harder for the other guy to see. In the first part of the turn aim for 3-4 G's but back off on the G's a bit as you pass vertical so you don't pull it into a stall going over the top. If you float a vertical turn (immelman, loop, whatever), you'll gain lots of altitude but you'll have a huge turn circle and be slow/helpless at the top if the other guy went up too but turned inside you, and he may win with a vertical snap-shot as you float over the top.
When very very slow, don't be afraid of nudging the rudder a bit if you need the nose to go one way or another, but also be prepared to IMMEDIATELY apply opposite rudder and move the stick fwd a bit if the nose starts slicing, especially with the power still up. Power on spin entries can be violent so listen to what the IP says you can and can't do.
Don't try negative G maneuvers unless you like chewing second-hand banana.
Eat a little protein too in your pre-flight breakfast. Egg has worked good for me in my flying career.
Stay hydrated but not so much before flight that you have to pee before the flight is over. The last thing you do before you step out of the building to go fly is make one last bathroom stop. Seriously, don't pass up a chance to pee. Ever.
Watch getting the nose buried downhill. If you get going fast the instructor WILL intervene. If you try a split-S, make sure you're fairly slow to begin with and get on the pull early or you'll get going too fast and you'll either end up with a HUGE turn circle that the opponent can cut inside, or your IP will intervene.
Keep the ball centered if you're in a rate fight (level turn fight going 'round and 'round). Don't get greedy until you're SURE you can cash in any extra speed to get the other plane in your gunsight.
A rolling scissors is cool but often degenerates quickly into a flat scissors. If it keeps rolling, one or both planes will often go through the floor which ends the engagement.
Pull to the other guy's high-6.
Good advice there. Anyone have performance specs on the Extra 300? I'm going to see if I can find the optimal speed for turn rate, and stuff like that.
I'm mostly going into this to have fun, but since it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity, the trash talk and gloating factor will be extra high! :cool:
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Wait for him to run out of fuel, then when he's gliding on approach to land, fly up behind him and shoot him down.
It's how Yeager got his 262.
-Mutha
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Oh yeah, and I'm eating froot loops and skittles for breakfast! :x
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The true dogfighter's breakfast (and I think that eagl will back me up on this) is a mountain of cabbage and beans, washed down with liberal amounts of beer.
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Try to cheat to be a little lower than the other plane at the merge, but already pulling up in your lead-turn as if you're just trying to get back to co-altitude. Don't go pure vertical, but bias it oblique a bit towards wherever the sun is to make it harder for the other guy to see. In the first part of the turn aim for 3-4 G's but back off on the G's a bit as you pass vertical so you don't pull it into a stall going over the top. If you float a vertical turn (immelman, loop, whatever), you'll gain lots of altitude but you'll have a huge turn circle and be slow/helpless at the top if the other guy went up too but turned inside you, and he may win with a vertical snap-shot as you float over the top.
I was hoping you'd chime in.
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The true dogfighter's breakfast (and I think that eagl will back me up on this) is a mountain of cabbage and beans, washed down with liberal amounts of beer.
According to Dos Gringos, the appropriate meal before an ACT flight is a greasy chimichanga and 2 tequila shots.
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I had the best hockey game of my life after being up all night and eating a breakfast of a greasy steak-and-egg burrito. :aok
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According to Dos Gringos, the appropriate meal before an ACT flight is a greasy chimichanga and 2 tequila shots.
But then he'll be running down the hallways like he's never run before, beginning to wonder if he'd make it to the door...
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Is there a stuff like that somewhere in Europe?
Even Aerobatics only?
Here you go http://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/producthome/Corporate_Events/Top_Gun_Day
It is in England though. Bit of a trip from Israel. There are quite a few places offering aerobatic experiences around Europe. But be prepared to feel very sick. The first time I flew in a Pitts special. my head was spinning and my stomach churning even though I was already a pilot.
In fact I read somewhere that non pilots in air combat simulations often do better than pilots because they don't over think and worry about over stressing the aircraft and fly it like it was a computer game. If I had any advice it's would be not to over think it and enjoy the moment.
It's on my bucket list.
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Here you go http://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/producthome/Corporate_Events/Top_Gun_Day
It is in England though. Bit of a trip from Israel. There are quite a few places offering aerobatic experiences around Europe.
And I was in UK and missed this :cry :cry :cry :cry
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And I was in UK and missed this :cry :cry :cry :cry
Doh! I only found out when I happened to be there looking at some old Hunters parked on the peri road and saw some guys poncing around in pilot overalls. If only I had the money!
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You should definitely post videos of what its like here.
Oh, I definitely will do!
Not sure what they use for a hard deck. 1k', I think, maybe a bit higher. BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).
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Oh, I definitely will do!
Not sure what they use for a hard deck. 1k', I think, maybe a bit higher. BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).
New breakfast idea (This is what I've been doing after a few air-sickness issues): Two packages of the cheese-and-crackers you can get at the corner store lol.
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Oh, I definitely will do!
Not sure what they use for a hard deck. 1k', I think, maybe a bit higher. BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).
This means you'll have plenty of time to ride merry go rounds, get spun in a swivel chair with a blind fold and head between your knees and then sit up, go fishing in a sloppy sea etc. Seriously though if you can get any time in a small plane on a bumpy day close to when you fly it will help you acclimate a little.
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Literally any small plane flying will help avoid getting airsick. No substitute for real world exposure to the environment you'll be in, because even a few flights will help accustom your body to the new inputs. The vibration and sound of the motor, weight of the headset, sun glare, different movement axis, etc. Expose your body to all that stuff a few times and you'll be far less likely to have your body take an informal poll of your sensory organs and hold a revolution or protest activity.
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Post a video so we can debrief you "patch" style.
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Never. Ever. Turn. :aok
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Literally any small plane flying will help avoid getting airsick. No substitute for real world exposure to the environment you'll be in, because even a few flights will help accustom your body to the new inputs. The vibration and sound of the motor, weight of the headset, sun glare, different movement axis, etc. Expose your body to all that stuff a few times and you'll be far less likely to have your body take an informal poll of your sensory organs and hold a revolution or protest activity.
Well said, Eagl.
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Never. Ever. Turn. :aok
Aerial combat is a constantly fluid environment. Therefore, using "never" or "always" as recommendations has the potential of making one predictable, something that can quickly put you on the losing end of an engagement. :salute
Check six, especially deep six! :D
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Aerial combat is a constantly fluid environment. Therefore, using "never" or "always" as recommendations has the potential of making one predictable, something that can quickly put you on the losing end of an engagement. :salute
Check six, especially deep six! :D
I have it on good authority from French Mirage 2000N crews (from a discussion in the O-club) that turning is something you "never" do.
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According to an F-16 test pilot on F-16.net, delta wing aircraft experience much higher drag at high angles of attack than other types of fighters.
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That's a partial truth about delta wings. Even the F-16 has a delta wing. It just has a conventional tail too. The benefit of a delta wing planform, whether a tailless delta or a winged delta (or canard delta) is that it has a very flat lift curve. Yes, drag increases dramatically as AOA increases, but you also get neat vortices that keep producing lots of lift even at or after lift starts decreasing as AOA continues to increase. With a conventional wing, lift drops off rapidly resulting in an abrupt stall. With any delta wing planform, the lift tapers off gradually while drag increases at a very rapid rate. So you can fly a delta wing aircraft at a nice high AOA and still have it be very flyable since it is still controllable in the "stall".
This is one reason why the mig-21 was and still is considered a dangerous dogfight opponent. Its low speed high AOA handling was very good due to the delta wing.
A tailless delta wing aircraft like the B-58 hustler and mirage fighters rely more on the vortices than the F-16. Also, pretty much any delta wing aircraft gets HUGE benefits from a drooping leading edge flap as AOA increases.
Yea, that F-16 pilot said part of the truth. The rest of the truth is that he's flying a delta wing fighter and his flight control computers keep him from getting deep into the part of the AOA regime where drag increases super quickly as lift slowly drops off.
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I have it on good authority from French Mirage 2000N crews (from a discussion in the O-club) that turning is something you "never" do.
Well, that's from a specific real world fighter pilot's expertise vs a general statement in the previous post.
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Well, that's from a specific real world fighter pilot's expertise vs a general statement in the previous post.
Well, that's ok because the previous general statement was probably a joke referring to people in the game who never turn either. Basically equating the pro F-35 arguments with the excuses and predilections of the "runstang" and other arena stereotypes who make one pass through a fight (usually taking mostly head-on attacks) and blow through, never turning, justifying it with a variety of selectively chosen "proofs" that justify their excuse for their chosen tactic and "prove" that it is superior to everyone and everything else. The similarities between the runstang argument and the F-35 arguments have achieved critical mass, so now its a "thing".
But of course once ya gotta explain a joke...
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Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the jokers and the serious.