Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on October 26, 2015, 04:32:24 PM
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/26/us-southchinasea-usa-idUSKCN0SK2AC20151026 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/26/us-southchinasea-usa-idUSKCN0SK2AC20151026)
God's speed to those who put themselves in harms way.
:salute,
Wab
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This would be one of the time I would think the LCS would come in useful, especially the faster variant. If they decide to shoot, it won`t matter what ship it is if it`s alone - IMO running at 48-50 knts through there woulnd`t be the worst way to go about it - they don`t have anything that can catch it, there newer stealthy missile boats are close, but not close enough.
IMO their usual behavior and past behavior with other nearby Asian nations is to bump/ram/annoy/etc - speed is the best way to avoid this, as again, if it turns into a shootout, anything other than the retired Battleships, and even then, would be in major, major trouble all alone and at close range anyway.
I wish them good luck as well, going to be interesting...
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And China reacts predictably:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/south-china-sea-us-sovereignty-challenge-provokes-anger-in-beijing_562f5d72e4b06317990f42fa?cps=gravity_5032_4478834756028392688
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Do you all really think that we've been playing Aces High, World of Tanks, and World of Warships for fun? No! The US Government has been training us as an elite force of drone commanders. They are going to put digitized receivers in all of our military equipment and then for $14.95 we will fight the Chinese while boosting our economy.
Trust me, crazier things have happened....
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(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1483/angryasian1312764953.jpg)
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Didn't we interfere with an Asian country's economy about 74 years ago? Embargo and sanctions and such. If memory serves me, they didn't take it very well. Not saying they were right, but they are prone to overreacting.
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I'd be willing to bet big money that China won't bomb Pearl Harbor in my lifetime.
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Glad to see no shots were fired this time.
However, the US Navy needs to continue periodic transits to enforce their rights of navigation.
The Chinese will have to eventually react or lose face.
It really wasn't this first time I was expecting something bad would happen. I'm sure both sides were monitoring events very closely and everyone was very careful.
My concern is what happens the 3rd or 4th time when command and control might not be so tight and someone gets sloppy (on either side).
-Wab
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Not just our right of navigation, but everybody's. China is claiming so much of the South China Sea that in some cases a Filipino fisherman who launches his boat off of the beach is, according to China, violating Chinese territorial waters by the time he clears the breakers.
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Not just our right of navigation, but everybody's. China is claiming so much of the South China Sea that in some cases a Filipino fisherman who launches his boat off of the beach is, according to China, violating Chinese territorial waters by the time he clears the breakers.
It would be nice to see an Aussie destroyer next time. Then a Philippine. Then South Korean. etc. That way we don't just get pointed at as trying to start a fight like typical Amerikans. We have to wipe everyone's butt, and then we'll get called war-mongers. Often by the people's who's butt's have just been wiped. A simple thank you would suffice.
Wab
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The current international law of the sea about man made islands. Because it's manmade you do not suddenly gain control of the internal waters around that island. Otherwise, China could build an island just outside of international water distance off Malibu and declare SoCal water space their territory.
China is taking the old cold war game of warship chicken the US and USSR used to play to a complete new level. They are playing territorial land chicken. Wonder what China would do if the surrounding countries with US help built their own islands a few miles away from each of the Chinese islands? Unfortunately at this time only China has the money to partake in such public works projects. The airstrips and ship harbors on each of those islands places the countries in the SC Sea at risk.
Does anyone know if oil reserves or strategic mineral deposits have been located recently in the SC Sea basin? At the rate China is growing, they will pollute half the world into submission.
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The Philippine government thanked us.
Remember, the Philippines are very weak compared to China. In that region only the US, Japan and, maybe, South Korea and Australia can push back against China. Japan is also pushing back against Chinese expanding claims which has lead to a lot of anti-Japanese stuff in China, including insinuations by China that Okinawa is, historically, Chinese territory and that unless Japan bows to China's demands China might press its claim on Okinawa.
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It is believed there are petroleum reserves in that area, but I don't know if it has been publicly admitted.
-Wab
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China needs petroleum that they are not beholding to the west or middle east for. Then they don't need to play nice with anyone.
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The Philippine government thanked us.
Remember, the Philippines are very weak compared to China. In that region only the US, Japan and, maybe, South Korea and Australia can push back against China. Japan is also pushing back against Chinese expanding claims which has lead to a lot of anti-Japanese stuff in China, including insinuations by China that Okinawa is, historically, Chinese territory and that unless Japan bows to China's demands China might press its claim on Okinawa.
Then they should put a boat in harms way. We can cover it with air. But there needs to be other flags involved in this besides ours.
If the heavy fighting starts, sure, we'll have to carry the weight, but this part is political. China is already trying to spin this as unilateral American aggression.
They need to demonstrate that every single country in the region is standing with the US in this with more than just words. Every week a different nations navy needs to buzz by in rotation.
-Wab
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Buying carriers too expensive! Build islands which like no moving carriers instead!
Some of these atolls they've built up are a ridiculous distance from China - it'd be like Canada building an island off California and declaring the waters there sovereign.
China is in no position to challenge US militarily. For now. Look at them from say 2005 to now. In ten more years - they are building a LOT of pretty decent naval ships, a large submarine force too. They have hundreds of stealthy and very fast missile boats too, that alone could flip close to 1000 high mach SSMs at US/Allied naval forces. Having runways and logistics on all these little islands is a very serious threat, one that is too late to stop now.
How anyone could think that eventual war, or surrender of the Pacific sea lanes/control by the US/Allies isn't going to happen is beyond me. Eventually China will think itself having enough resources and capability to challenge the US Navy/USAF, and then won't back down or just issue "me so angry" press releases. And that day will come sooner than later IMO.
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Then they should put a boat in harms way. We can cover it with air. But there needs to be other flags involved in this besides ours.
If the heavy fighting starts, sure, we'll have to carry the weight, but this part is political. China is already trying to spin this as unilateral American aggression.
They need to demonstrate that every single country in the region is standing with the US in this with more than just words. Every week a different nations navy needs to buzz by in rotation.
-Wab
They have. Take a gander at this:
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/07/world/south-china-sea-dispute/
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They have. Take a gander at this:
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/07/world/south-china-sea-dispute/
That's a good start. Now we need a vessel as well to join the patrol rotation.
Australia too.
Japan too.
South Korea too.
-Wab
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Sorry, but the lead up of public announcements were BS. It was all staged and the outcome was pre-ordained.
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Sorry, but the lead up of public announcements were BS. It was all staged and the outcome was pre-ordained.
What does this even mean?
Of course the outcome was known. What do you think, the Chinese were actually going to shoot at us? We were making a point, that we don't acknowledge Chinese claims in the SCS based on their artificial islands. The point was made by us sailing through their so called territory ignoring their warnings and demands, which were obviously going to be made.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/26/us-southchinasea-usa-idUSKCN0SK2AC20151026 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/26/us-southchinasea-usa-idUSKCN0SK2AC20151026)
God's speed to those who put themselves in harms way.
:salute,
Wab
Harms way with the Chinese?
The country that gets the most investments from the US
You don't actually think anything will happen?
Do you?
We have real wars in the world and you have to worry about pretend ones :old:
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Harms way with the Chinese?
The country that gets the most investments from the US
You don't actually think anything will happen?
Do you?
We have real wars in the world and you have to worry about pretend ones :old:
Before WWI, Germany was one of Great Britain's 3 top trading partners.
I think anytime you have the young men of two nations full of testosterone and armed to the teeth getting eyeball to eyeball...accidents can happen.
-Wab
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I think anytime you have the young men of two nations full of testosterone and armed to the teeth getting eyeball to eyeball...accidents can happen.
-Wab
They added some estrogens in the mix ;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSZpQsZWoAAD-XP.jpg)
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The women need hats. The guy gets one. Sheesh.
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Karnak,
It's pretty simple but I can try to repeat so you can understand....
The sail past was merely meant to appease allies and have the appearance of taking a stand. It was announced well in advance to allow the Chinese ample warning, and likely was negotiated with Beijing in private, so that the response by Beijing could be made without losing face.
If the US was serious about it, they would have moved numerous warships through the area (with a tremendous amount of support) with no warning.
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They added some estrogens in the mix ;
I searched, but I can find no emoticon sufficiently dismissive to respond to that meme.
-Wab
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Karnak,
It's pretty simple but I can try to repeat so you can understand....
The sail past was merely meant to appease allies and have the appearance of taking a stand. It was announced well in advance to allow the Chinese ample warning, and likely was negotiated with Beijing in private, so that the response by Beijing could be made without losing face.
If the US was serious about it, they would have moved numerous warships through the area (with a tremendous amount of support) with no warning.
No!
It's war!
Arrest this man!
Should I stock up on beans?
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It was a secret meeting to discuss the next Jackie Chan movie :old:
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No!
It's war!
Arrest this man!
Should I stock up on beans?
Yes. And rice!
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Pies?
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/30/us-southchinasea-usa-china-navy-idUSKCN0SO05320151030 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/30/us-southchinasea-usa-china-navy-idUSKCN0SO05320151030)
Of course there is a bit of Kabuki dance to all of this. And we did telegraph our intention ahead of time as we should have. There was no advantage in surprising the Chinese. We wanted them to be ready and have their forces under tight control. This is a time when you want everyone's actions to be carefully calculated.
But it would be foolish to dismiss the underlying risk in this situation. Saving face has deep psychological power over the Chinese mind. It could make them act against their own self interest. And right now, we are taking a wizz right in their kisser. Publicly.
The next run won't be so uneventful. The Chinese will make a more forceful response. And then we'll be in the position of escalating or losing the confidence of our allies. And the Pacific is our next core strategic focus. If we damage our standing with our Pacific allies, the next 100 years of our diplomacy will be weakened.
-Wab
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Pies?
Freeze-dried ones ought to last years. Or this should be a new staple of military food, like the MRE, but it would the PRE (pies ready to eat).
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/30/us-southchinasea-usa-china-navy-idUSKCN0SO05320151030 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/30/us-southchinasea-usa-china-navy-idUSKCN0SO05320151030)
Of course there is a bit of Kabuki dance to all of this. And we did telegraph our intention ahead of time as we should have. There was no advantage in surprising the Chinese. We wanted them to be ready and have their forces under tight control. This is a time when you want everyone's actions to be carefully calculated.
But it would be foolish to dismiss the underlying risk in this situation. Saving face has deep psychological power over the Chinese mind. It could make them act against their own self interest. And right now, we are taking a wizz right in their kisser. Publicly.
The next run won't be so uneventful. The Chinese will make a more forceful response. And then we'll be in the position of escalating or losing the confidence of our allies. And the Pacific is our next core strategic focus. If we damage our standing with our Pacific allies, the next 100 years of our diplomacy will be weakened.
-Wab
The Chinese are owned hook line and sinker to the US financial concerns they will do what they are told :old:
It was Iran that the US hated now its the Chinese.
The US is even having Talks with Iran about its getting involved in sorting the IS shambles that has sprung up because its mess in Syria.
Its about time North Korea got the blame for, its been 6 months now since the colonials waved their pitch forks at them.
China :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
They are building a Nuclear Power station in the UK :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Click on the link below, its the Washington post so its not commie
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-exports-to-china-boom-despite-trade-tensions/2012/03/01/gIQAB2Rs5R_story.html
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Well said Wab, I agree completely with that assessment.
Zack likes to joke about war being absolutely impossible, however the Chinese moves and re armament are making the time ever shorter for when either confrontation, or complete surrender of the Pacific sea lanes and abandonment of US allies in the region occurs.
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International law only allow artificial islands within 200 miles from the mainland so China cannot claim any territorial water around the islands.
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International law only allow artificial islands within 200 miles from the mainland so China cannot claim any territorial water around the islands.
Is that the law the USA has not officially ratified? :devil
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http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm
Article60
Artificial islands, installations and structures
in the exclusive economic zone
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
(a) artificial islands;
(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones.
6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones.
7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation.
8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf.
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Send in a seal team and pull the stopper from the bottom of the plastic chinese island. With all the lead paint its covered with it should sink pretty fast
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1 typhoon and that manmade island is gone. It appears to be a bunch of sand poured on top of a reef.
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Nasty chinese :old:
Or koreans or Iranians or syrians or afgans.
As i said two years ago you need some country to wave your pitch forks at, it stops you looking at whats going on at home.
The old tricks are the best.
Kurdistans oil reserves are now finally coming on line, where is this country and what war was fought near it?
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http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
Although the United States now recognizes the UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law, it has not ratified it.
....
Although the United States helped shape the Convention and its subsequent revisions,[5] and though it signed the 1994 Agreement on Implementation, it has not signed the Convention as it objected to Part XI of the Convention
So, ironically, we have a country who has ratified the convention breaking it, and a country who has not ratified it trying to enforce it :bolt:
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Do you all really think that we've been playing Aces High, World of Tanks, and World of Warships for fun? No! The US Government has been training us as an elite force of drone commanders. They are going to put digitized receivers in all of our military equipment and then for $14.95 we will fight the Chinese while boosting our economy.
Trust me, crazier things have happened....
I uhhh want a Drone P38 to use for CAS. put a good camera with IR so my room mate can laze the target for my A2G warheads.
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Kurdistans oil reserves are now finally coming on line, where is this country and what war was fought near it?
The answer is quit obvious. The war for the Las Malvinas islands! :old:
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Pipz wheres hi heels in game :old:
And likes soft furnishings :old:
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Does anyone remeber Neville Chamberlain?
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China has now deployed J11 fighters to Woody Island (one of their newly reclaimed/built up Islands with a large airbase and naval logistical support facilities). There are pictures posted of armed J11s operating from the new base there as of today.
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what source are you using to follow the current events in the SCS
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Does anyone remeber Neville Chamberlain?
China is the enemy this week if you want
it will be someone else next week
The value of exports from the US to the Chinese since 2008 has increased by 50%
China cannot feed itself like the UK
It's the Swiss you have to keep your eye on not the Chinese, yes scratch your head it's not on TV.
The C919 passenger plane is also a myth and is rubbish and will never land in the US or have US investors making money out of it. (Take 43 seconds to think for 3 seconds)
While you witter on about the Chinese your taxes still go on getting taken from your pockets.
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JV Boob, several Chinese defense sites - sino defense, china-defense, Ministry of National Defense of the PRC, SinoDefenseForum - many other US Defense sites as well such as DoD Buzz, Foxtrot Alpha, Breaking Defense, Defense Tech, Defense News, Military News...
Just do a search for any of those, and you'll get a phone book of reasonably decent sites regarding Chinese/Pacific defense news.
If you want a look at Chinese Naval procurement, this is a good place to start as well - http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/plan-usn-comparison.htm
You can click through various years of Chinese Naval development, then through various comparisons with the USN based on types of ships, and so on.
IMO one thing of note from Jeff's page - http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/newfac.htm . This one little craft IMO shows how serious China is at pushing the USN and other allies OUT of the SCS. They have over 100 of them now, in a 7 year sprint China built 83 of these ships, while the USN finished but 2 LCS Frigates. The Type 022 is fast, very stealthy, and has 8 150km ranged extremely fast anti ship missiles. The math on that = the ability to flip hundreds upon hundreds of missiles at USN ships from stealthy fast platforms that are hard to detect and counter. And that's just ONE class of ship they've built recently, not counting their efforts in naval aviation, air independent subs, much improved nuclear subs, very solid Frigs and Destroyers, etc. They are currently building more Type 022s at a rate of several per month of that class alone. I bring this ship up specifically as all sources point to many of them being forward deployed at these new sandbar bases China is building.
We can joke about how unlikely confrontation will come, but China's buildup looks pretty serious IMO.
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Simple then!
Who in the world is not a potential threat to the US?
Lapland and Wales?
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Next month it will something about the South American threat.
Who has any suggestions?
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If you know of a Southern American country engaging in massive cyber attacks, cyber thefts, massive rearmament, using its ships to push smaller nations around and out of waters that aren't theirs in the fist place, building large islands with air and sea bases in waters that aren't theirs, sure, we can talk about them instead.
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I have a firm belief that Madagascar is a greatest threat to our freedom... They are just using North Korea as a smokescreen to hide their motives. And it is obviously not the Chinese making the island. It is merely Chinese workers that fear Madagascar so much that they wanted to create another small island for their masters to reside and be close to observe them.
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I have a firm belief that Madagascar is a greatest threat to our freedom... They are just using North Korea as a smokescreen to hide their motives. And it is obviously not the Chinese making the island. It is merely Chinese workers that fear Madagascar so much that they wanted to create another small island for their masters to reside and be close to observe them.
Especially King Julien, he is always trying to take over things. And dont get me started on those darn penguins
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If you know of a Southern American country engaging in massive cyber attacks, cyber thefts, massive rearmament, using its ships to push smaller nations around and out of waters that aren't theirs in the fist place, building large islands with air and sea bases in waters that aren't theirs, sure, we can talk about them instead.
Actually, Brazil, Venezuela, Columbia, and Argentina all have a significant hacker presence and have been responsible for many cyber attacks and cyber thefts (collectively, they are number two to China and Russia/Ukraine are working hard to catch them). Just an FYI.
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I have reported all of you... Again :old:
I am from Madagascar :old:
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I have reported all of you... Again :old:
I am from Madagascar :old:
Zack the Meerkat
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Zack is secretly Mort :D
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Come the revolution your name will be at the top of list :old:
And then Debrody for always being angry because no one recognises how special he is :old: