General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on December 02, 2015, 09:22:22 PM
Title: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 02, 2015, 09:22:22 PM
No comments? I thought ISIS was contained? :bhead Yes, I am jumping to conclusions.
Prayers and thoughts for the victims.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 02, 2015, 10:05:53 PM
One Internet site tracking mass shootings, and defining them as events with four or more people killed or injured, reported that San Bernardino’s tragedy was the 355th such shooting this year — a pace of more than one a day.
:bolt:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Peanut1 on December 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 02, 2015, 10:42:14 PM
ripsnort. if you have something to say then say it. otherwise stop hiding.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: TequilaChaser on December 03, 2015, 01:23:57 AM
I think TC and I would agree a lot about certain governments.
We more than likely would...... but I would best be served taking it to PM or email or another forum, Brooke
my apologies for increasing Skuzzy's and HTC's workload having to moderate these AH Message Boards, when I know they need and want to spend their valuable time on bettering the game itself..... I knew better than that ( like the Report To Moderator Link )
sincere apologies to HTC,
TC
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: BuckShot on December 03, 2015, 06:41:24 AM
No comments? I thought ISIS was contained? :bhead Yes, I am jumping to conclusions.
Prayers and thoughts for the victims.
Isis is contained to this galaxy.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:08:15 AM
IED factory inside their house. Farooq Syed recently returned from Saudi Arabia and began growing out his beard. His wife was the other shooter. They dropped off their 6 month old child at granny's house before the shooting. They wore Go Pro cameras while they did their killing.
I would venture to guess they had much more support behind the scenes than just two nutbags they decided to go on a shooting spree. Everything they had in their possession was illegal by the State of California. I guess gun laws, no matter how strict they are, will not matter with people that want to do harm to others.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 08:22:35 AM
IED factory inside their house. Farooq Syed recently returned from Saudi Arabia and began growing out his beard. His wife was the other shooter. They dropped off their 6 month old child at granny's house before the shooting. They wore Go Pro cameras while they did their killing.
I would venture to guess they had much more support behind the scenes than just two nutbags they decided to go on a shooting spree. Everything they had in their possession was illegal by the State of California. I guess gun laws, no matter how strict they are, will not matter with people that want to do harm to others.
:blank:
i know! we can put medal detectors at the border! :old:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Shamus on December 03, 2015, 09:24:47 AM
"began growing out his beard"
Saw Paul Ryan on the tube this morning, he is growing a beard, better put some agents on him :rofl
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
Interesting that folks focus only on the beard thing, and not all the other red flags. I wonder why? :devil
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Zimme83 on December 03, 2015, 10:34:49 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Shamus on December 03, 2015, 10:43:14 AM
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 03, 2015, 10:52:40 AM
I'm with Rip. This very clearly was planned and not just an angry response to a Christmas party slight. I'd add, I believe the wife was a Qatari.
The President was quick to call this globally unprecedented. He indicated that prohibiting "no-fly" list members from purchasing guns would fix this problem.
However, I seem to recall 140 unarmed Parisians being mowed down the other week. I have also heard of (and visited a few times) this nation called Brazil which has record levels of gun violence and near-total prohibition. I also recall living in California and seem to recall (and have verified) that high-capacity mags and "assault rifles" as defined by the media, but actually meaning certain semiautos, are already illegal there.
As for the counterfactual assertion that somehow US gun violence is escalating (it has actually declined since the 90's and correlates !!! to increased gun ownership), I offer this: https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/03/ny-daily-news-controversial-gun-cover-of (https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/03/ny-daily-news-controversial-gun-cover-of)
I note that Zimme has used this as an opportunity to besmirch an entire nation and, implicitly, American gun owners. I have an exceedingly low opinion of that.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: FLS on December 03, 2015, 10:58:16 AM
Terrorism has been contained, depending on what the definition of isis is. :bhead
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 10:58:37 AM
It may very well have something to do with terrorism, but grabbing at straws prior to the investigation shows an agenda.
:aok
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 11:24:31 AM
Grasping at straws is guessing randomly and desperately. Labeling this shooting as an act of terrorism falls squarely under "educated guess" given what we know at this point.
Of course, it could turn out that this couple killed and maimed dozens of people because someone at the party said Lincoln puts out better luxury SUV's than GMC does, but that would be grasping at straws.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 03, 2015, 11:29:25 AM
Of course, Triton... but people WILL do it. In fact, premature finger-pointing has become a political art form in this day and age. It is nearly always done in the service of an agenda. hat's not necessarily bad - but it does impose risk for the pointer.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 03, 2015, 11:48:59 AM
I did notice the French president was got out of that stadium pretty quickly and everyone was left on their own.
Politicians have armed protection, in the UK I can use a stern look which is totally ineffectual in protecting my person but gives me a look of importance.
Is it true in the US that you own firearms for self defence?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 11:54:05 AM
I did notice the French president was got out of that stadium pretty quickly and everyone was left on their own.
Politicians have armed protection, in the UK I can use a stern look which is totally ineffectual in protecting my person but gives me a look of importance.
Is it true in the US that you own firearms for self defence?
99% of the people in the US, you would never know they're armed. That's a good thing.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: BuckShot on December 03, 2015, 12:14:27 PM
Grasping at straws is guessing randomly and desperately. Labeling this shooting as an act of terrorism falls squarely under "educated guess" given what we know at this point.
Of course, it could turn out that this couple killed and maimed dozens of people because someone at the party said Lincoln puts out better luxury SUV's than GMC does, but that would be grasping at straws.
They had pipe bombs at their house, among other things. They were terrorists. Correct straw grabbed, finger accurately pointed.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 03, 2015, 12:14:41 PM
Right, it imposes a deadly shell game on would-be attackers.
Zack, you can buy a gun in the US and wear it as a fashion accessory, wave it around with total irresponsibility. Of course, they'll throw you in jail on a brandish charge, but you can do it.
Most people prefer the "low profile" style of carrying it concealed.
Can you use it in self-defense? Of course, but there are rules governing this as well. The use of deadly force has to meet the level of threat as judged ex post by a jury of "reasonable" people. In many states, you also have a duty to retreat, meaning, de facto, that you can't use the firearm to defend your property if you have a safe exit.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 12:16:46 PM
Of course, Triton... but people WILL do it. In fact, premature finger-pointing has become a political art form in this day and age. It is nearly always done in the service of an agenda. hat's not necessarily bad - but it does impose risk for the pointer.
Making an educated guess and being wrong on this BBS means nobody will ever ask me to analyze another potential terrorist attack again. I'm fine with that as it doesn't pay very well anyway. :)
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 03, 2015, 12:23:51 PM
Exactly.
There's an entire game that now goes on - and the intardnet has only enabled it. Your average pundit will make an entire slew of predictions/speculations. I'm convinced he approaches it like a portfolio of start-ups.
And, like a portfolio of start-ups, 60-90% will go belly-up and disappear beneath the waves... But that GOLDEN ONE will be the prediction that comes true!!! And that one will be the one he crows from the rooftops.
And, as you point out, we do it here with even less risk than the pundit.
Leaving that aside, did I point out to you the FACT that I'm some kind of freaking GENIUS for predicting, last year I'd add, the reemergence of the European nationalist right wing?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
When I grew up in the 80's having a shotgun hanging in your rear window was normal. :old: Not many did it, but it was normal. That said, I would not trust a good old argument with a stranger nowadays, his wife might be packin. :bolt:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Skyguns MKII on December 03, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Went to school in berno. Shootings are norm to say the least. Just shocking to see one of this degree. I send my condolences :pray
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 12:44:49 PM
According to a local Los Angeles news report, a neighbor of San Bernardino massacre suspects Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik didn't report suspicious activity at their apartment for fear of being accused of racism.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 03, 2015, 12:51:41 PM
Well, I was going to respond. But the post I was responding to got eliminated.
Me 2 but you forgot they planted three pipe bomb they had laying around the house.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 03, 2015, 01:10:57 PM
The idea that this was the result of a "heat of the moment" reaction to some argument at a Christmas party is just absurd.
Heat of the moment is not driving back home, gearing up, changing clothes, putting on a mask, having the wife do the same, having the kid at Grandma's beforehand, then driving back, and calmly trying to massacre everyone who was there.
It's as absurd as insisting on calling the shooting at Fort Hood "workplace violence".
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 03, 2015, 01:30:45 PM
If 0 is a totally liberalized Muslim (Rushdie) and 10 is the 9/11 AQ attack, I would put Fort Hood at "7.5" (the guy e-mailed with radicals and shared thoughts but came up with his act by himself). That act bought the radical cleric a Global Hawk visit. From what we know so far, this stands at around a "7". If the FBI determines the guy was affiliating and in communication with ISIS, it moves to an "8". If ISIS supplied him with money or connections for weapons, move it to a "9" on the domestic terror scale.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2015, 02:08:09 PM
If 0 is a totally liberalized Muslim (Rushdie) and 10 is the 9/11 AQ attack, I would put Fort Hood at "7.5" (the guy e-mailed with radicals and shared thoughts but came up with his act by himself). That act bought the radical cleric a Global Hawk visit. From what we know so far, this stands at around a "7". If the FBI determines the guy was affiliating and in communication with ISIS, it moves to an "8". If ISIS supplied him with money or connections for weapons, move it to a "9" on the domestic terror scale.
Officials have already come out and said that while in Saudi Arabia, the shooter was communicating with suspected terrorists via phone and email.
There's an entire game that now goes on - and the intardnet has only enabled it. Your average pundit will make an entire slew of predictions/speculations. I'm convinced he approaches it like a portfolio of start-ups.
And, like a portfolio of start-ups, 60-90% will go belly-up and disappear beneath the waves... But that GOLDEN ONE will be the prediction that comes true!!! And that one will be the one he crows from the rooftops.
And, as you point out, we do it here with even less risk than the pundit.
Leaving that aside, did I point out to you the FACT that I'm some kind of freaking GENIUS for predicting, last year I'd add, the reemergence of the European nationalist right wing?
It's true, the internet is full of those who think it was created for them to spam their thoughts to everyone else. I don't think this particular shooting is going to expose many of those though, given that as details emerge, it's becoming less and less bold to label it terrorism.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 02:26:54 PM
According to a local Los Angeles news report, a neighbor of San Bernardino massacre suspects Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik didn't report suspicious activity at their apartment for fear of being accused of racism.
This is where this act of terrorism intersects with many other mass killings all around the world. Somebody always sees or notices something that isn't normal, but they hesitate to label it what it appears to be for fear of harming or offending someone in some way. It's almost as if these people don't trust themselves enough to make a thoughtful decision.
There's a difference between being a nosey dummy and being able to recognize when something isn't right.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 02:32:28 PM
A cop told me one time "hindsight is 20/20"
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 02:52:20 PM
Sure it is, but we're not talking about a nervous looking girl in Macy's you think might be shoplifting. We're talking about suspicions that this person might be up to a whole lot of no good. Anyone who's ever been in a position to help someone or prevent something bad from happening and did nothing will tell you it's a terrible feeling that doesn't go away. Far better to pass the info to authorities and be wrong than to talk yourself out of it and find your hunch was right.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 03, 2015, 03:06:11 PM
So if I see trigger signs like former government employee with a cache of weapons and ammo wearing a beard... pretty good chance they are a terrorist, right?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 03, 2015, 03:17:28 PM
So if I see trigger signs like former government employee with a cache of weapons and ammo wearing a beard... pretty good chance they are a terrorist, right?
If the person looks arab (muslim), yea that should give you a notion to watch carefully
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 03:18:40 PM
So if I see trigger signs like former government employee with a cache of weapons and ammo wearing a beard... pretty good chance they are a terrorist, right?
If you see something that doesn't seem to add up... pretty good chance you should talk to someone about it. If you don't trust your own judgement... bounce it off someone you do trust and see what they think. If it keeps you up at night... well, there's your answer.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 03:45:06 PM
alot of people are bonafide nuts. if i snitch on them..well im in the wrong. oh yeah going postal is not what were after. we need to report the intelligent quiet family man with extreme religious views ... omg thats half the country, the entire states of Utah, Alabama, and Missouri, heck its everyone in between. :bolt:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 03, 2015, 03:49:01 PM
You need to define extreme. So, in your view, God Fearing Christians in those states have extreme views. So did the founding fathers and most of the Nation. If I love Jesus Christ, I have extreme views now... yet we am not the one beheading non-believers.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 04:06:12 PM
"extreme is when you get angry at another person for not being like you, then planning on doing the only logical thing and killing them." i would say the comma is the line to not cross. many people fit in section one of the definition yet i cant call the cops because i saw them talk this way even if i saw them carry a gun around the yard.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
alot of people are bonafide nuts. if i snitch on them..well im in the wrong. oh yeah going postal is not what were after. we need to report the intelligent quiet family man with extreme religious views ... omg thats half the country, the entire states of Utah, Alabama, and Missouri, heck its everyone in between. :bolt:
lol... you think Mormons and Bible Belt residents are suspicious and crazy just by default?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 03, 2015, 04:27:22 PM
"San Bernardino suspects' huge cache of bullets and bombs enough for 'another attack,' officials say" -- LA Times.
Yep, nothing says "probably just the result of an argument" like a huge cache of bombs.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 04:30:22 PM
You don't need to profile anyone to see them doing something you think is odd and let someone know about it.
I see lots of guys here in this bb who distrust the government. some to me border on being paranoid. and they own lots of guns. should I report them to the police?
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 03, 2015, 06:44:39 PM
I have reported Semp!
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 07:02:50 PM
I see lots of guys here in this bb who distrust the government. some to me border on being paranoid. and they own lots of guns. should I report them to the police?
semp
Semp, do you really believe your observations of the written word and occasional picture on the internet is as useful or accurate as a neighbor/friend/coworker/etc observing actual behavior with their actual eyes of someone they actually know? Just in case this was an actual question though... no, you semp don't need to call the police. Email or call HTC if you really think someone here is acting (so far as one can tell on a forum) suspiciously. They'll hopefully take a look and if it warrants attention, I'm sure they'll pass that along with more useful information than you could provide.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Oldman731 on December 03, 2015, 07:25:15 PM
Semp, do you really believe your observations of the written word and occasional picture on the internet is as useful or accurate as a neighbor/friend/coworker/etc observing actual behavior with their actual eyes of someone they actually know?
Here I'm thinking of those open-carry weiners in Texas.
- oldman
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Plazus on December 03, 2015, 07:33:05 PM
If the person looks arab (muslim), yea that should give you a notion to watch carefully
Being a Muslim and being an Arab are two different things. Arab is a race. Just because you're Arab doesn't mean you're a Muslim. A Muslim is someone who believes in an ideology.
Being prejudiced towards a Muslim is not racist.
There are many races of humans that practice and believe in Islam.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 07:53:28 PM
I see lots of guys here in this bb who distrust the government. some to me border on being paranoid. and they own lots of guns. should I report them to the police?
semp
Belief in smaller, less intrusive government doesn't equate to the amount of ammunition or guns you own. Most of us that believe in this also believe in "If you see something, say something". I would have no issues with po po coming over to see my stash. Matter of fact, they'll be impressed, might even get a sale or two on some old stuff.
I'm curious, from a psychology POV, why you believe that, or why you bothered typing it?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 08:18:57 PM
You don't call the police because you don't know if someone is doing something suspicious or not. You call the police when you think someone IS doing something suspicious. Do you understand the difference?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
I'm hearing crickets right now from someone who shouldn't even be using 'gun' in his name... :angry:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:34:14 PM
You don't call the police because you don't know if someone is doing something suspicious or not. You call the police when you think someone IS doing something suspicious. Do you understand the difference?
No. He doesn't.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 08:38:00 PM
You don't call the police because you don't know if someone is doing something suspicious or not. You call the police when you think someone IS doing something suspicious. Do you understand the difference?
no the question posted before is why didnt somebody call the police. my answer is how are we supposed to know. should I report anybody with a gun?
I have seen in my apartment complex
-people loading multiple guns in cars -wearing cammo -wearing all black -having a beard -talking about hoarding guns and ammo -talking non-sense about the government wanting to take over (they're fricking nuts)
so tell me how am I supposed to know somebody is up to no good?
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:40:19 PM
no the question posted before is why didnt somebody call the police. my answer is how are we supposed to know. should I report anybody with a gun?
I have seen in my apartment complex
-people loading multiple guns in cars -wearing cammo -wearing all black -having a beard -talking about hoarding guns and ammo -talking non-sense about the government wanting to take over (they're fricking nuts)
so tell me how am I supposed to know somebody is up to no good?
semp
You're not SUPPOSED to know. If you suspect something CALL THE FRICKING POLICE!!!! :bhead
It comes down to this, because someone didn't want to appear racist (PC brainwashed) that PEOPLE DIED in CA yesterday.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 08:41:43 PM
Bottom line, if you see something, say something. Period. All my neighbors KNOW I'm an active range shooter and hunter...my neighbors see me hauling ammo, guns, even kids to the range or in the fall, off to hunt. They know me. Get to know your neighbors. It's a good thing. Especially when poop hits the fan, you're going to need to rely on neighbors.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 08:44:17 PM
no the question posted before is why didnt somebody call the police. my answer is how are we supposed to know. should I report anybody with a gun?
I have seen in my apartment complex
-people loading multiple guns in cars -wearing cammo -wearing all black -having a beard -talking about hoarding guns and ammo -talking non-sense about the government wanting to take over (they're fricking nuts)
so tell me how am I supposed to know somebody is up to no good?
having or showing a cautious distrust of someone or something. "he was suspicious of her motives" synonyms: doubtful, unsure, dubious, wary, chary, skeptical, distrustful, mistrustful, disbelieving, cynical "she gave him a suspicious look" antonyms: trusting causing one to have the idea or impression that something or someone is of questionable, dishonest, or dangerous character or condition. "they are not treating the fire as suspicious" synonyms: disreputable, unsavory, dubious, suspect, dishonest-looking, funny-looking, slippery; More informalshifty, shady "a highly suspicious character" questionable, odd, strange, dubious, irregular, queer, funny, doubtful, mysterious, murky; informalfishy "she disappeared in suspicious circumstances" antonyms: upright, reputable, innocent having the belief or impression that someone is involved in an illegal or dishonest activity. "police were called when staff became suspicious"
If you observe something in your apartment complex that makes you feel like the bold parts above, then yes, I would say you should probably tell someone about it.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Oldman731 on December 03, 2015, 08:46:08 PM
You don't call the police because you don't know if someone is doing something suspicious or not. You call the police when you think someone IS doing something suspicious. Do you understand the difference?
Many people sense that someone wandering around the neighborhood with an assault rifle is suspicious. I guarantee that if I looked out the window of my house and saw one of them strolling down the street with an AR15 - much less a bunch of them - I would call the cops.
- oldman
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 08:46:22 PM
If you observe something in your apartment complex that makes you feel like the bold parts above, then yes, I would say you should probably tell someone about it.
all of those would have been suspicious to somebody. 911 would be overwhelmed with calls of somebody having a gun.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:48:02 PM
Many people sense that someone wandering around the neighborhood with an assault rifle is suspicious. I guarantee that if I looked out the window of my house and saw one of them strolling down the street with an AR15 - much less a bunch of them - I would call the cops.
- oldman
If you don't know the person and/or they're acting in a way to cause concern, I would say that would qualify as suspicious. It's reasonable to say that strolling down the street with a long gun isn't normal, especially in non-rural areas.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 08:51:29 PM
Perhaps you need to move out of the south side of Chicago? :rofl
I live 5 miles from where the shooting was in san bernardino. I know 1 person that his neighbor's mom got killed there. I have friends that have friends that worked there.
his coworkers called the shooter a very well liked man, very respectful.
now tell me again, how are we supposed to know.
semp
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2015, 08:54:11 PM
I live 5 miles from where the shooting was in san bernardino. I know 1 person that his neighbor's mom got killed there. I have friends that have friends that worked there.
his coworkers called the shooter a very well liked man, very respectful.
now tell me again, how are we supposed to know.
semp
semp
You're not supposed to KNOW! If you suspect something, call the fricken po po! Geez, do I need to create a visio chart for you?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 08:56:20 PM
all of those would have been suspicious to somebody. 911 would be overwhelmed with calls of somebody having a gun.
semp
Were they suspicious to you? Why or why not?
And semp, you don't call 911 for non-emergency stuff. Your local phone book likely lists a number for your local PD. Use that and rest easy about tying up emergency lines.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 09:00:39 PM
I live 5 miles from where the shooting was in san bernardino. I know 1 person that his neighbor's mom got killed there. I have friends that have friends that worked there.
his coworkers called the shooter a very well liked man, very respectful.
now tell me again, how are we supposed to know.
semp
semp
You might have missed it, but for this shooting we were referring specifically to the neighbor of the shooters who observed behavior (presumably over several days/weeks) that seemed out of place to him. To really judge the validity of what he felt, you'd have probably have to have seen what he saw, in the way he saw it. He supposedly told reporters that he had suspicions, but didn't want to say anything for fear of being wrong and being labeled a racist.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Peanut1 on December 03, 2015, 09:03:38 PM
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 03, 2015, 09:30:18 PM
rip and triton are making me suspicious. :old:
texas, scares me. :uhoh
mass shooting stats show hispanics are least likely to go on a random shooting spree relative to population. therefore if you see a chrome gun being loaded in a car dont call the police. :police:
what did the neighbor in california see to make him think suspicious? did he get a 20/20 view of the guys beard? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Shamus on December 03, 2015, 10:09:28 PM
"now tell me again, how are we supposed to know".
He had a beard :evil:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 03, 2015, 10:19:54 PM
mass shooting stats show hispanics are least likely to go on a random shooting spree relative to population. therefore if you see a chrome gun being loaded in a car dont call the police. :police:
what did the neighbor in california see to make him think suspicious? did he get a 20/20 view of the guys beard? :headscratch:
Are you going to report me before or after you snitch on the Mormons?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 03, 2015, 10:29:56 PM
It's reasonable to say that strolling down the street with a long gun isn't normal, especially in non-rural areas.
Texas police prepare for open carry of guns in January (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/27/texas-police-prepare-for-open-carry-of-handguns-in/?page=all) (http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-DB555_target_G_20140603151325.jpg)
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 04, 2015, 04:05:11 AM
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 04, 2015, 04:31:13 AM
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 04, 2015, 05:06:32 AM
So if you can carry a gun and a criminal tries to shoot you can shoot back?
That's not fair on the criminals democratic rights to kill who ever he wants to!
What has the world come to?
In the UK we can have any weapons we want as long as they are not lethal.
I have a dried leaf and a packet of tissues containing aloe Vera as my primary method of defense.
In the US you cannot legislate against criminals causing harm to the public but you allow the public the ability to despatch scum and then have cup of tea and slice of cake.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: jeep00 on December 04, 2015, 05:45:12 AM
So if you can carry a gun and a criminal tries to shoot you can shoot back?
That's not fair on the criminals democratic rights to kill who ever he wants to!
What has the world come to?
In the UK we can have any weapons we want as long as they are not lethal.
I have a dried leaf and a packet of tissues containing aloe Vera as my primary method of defense.
In the US you cannot legislate against criminals causing harm to the public but you allow the public the ability to despatch scum and then have cup of tea and slice of cake.
Given thr amount of people with nut allergies, I carry a handful of peanuts at all times. Good at range and particularly close up when crushed.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 06:47:24 AM
we need to report the intelligent quiet family man with extreme religious views ... omg thats half the country, the entire states of Utah, Alabama, and Missouri, heck its everyone in between. :bolt:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 06:57:22 AM
Texas police prepare for open carry of guns in January (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/27/texas-police-prepare-for-open-carry-of-handguns-in/?page=all) (http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-DB555_target_G_20140603151325.jpg)
lol... before you make this an open carry advocate thread, nobody that I know of is debating whether you should or should not be able to open carry. Pretty much all that was discussed is whether it's common and warrants a second look from bystanders.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 04, 2015, 07:17:47 AM
Going there: open carry and brandishing are two different things. At least two of rpm's photos constitute brandishing and are not examples of open carry.
The weird thing: in many states, open carry is legal but will get you harasssed...
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 04, 2015, 08:03:53 AM
the guy in the last picture looks like a muslim terrorist. call police.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 09:08:37 AM
Here I'm thinking of those open-carry weiners in Texas.
- oldman
Those buttfaces are going to ruin it for concealed carry peeps. What do you think is going to happen if open carry becomes a thing? Every establishment is going to put no firearms allowed signs.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 09:16:37 AM
Nothing, but Nat believes the Mormons in Utah and a sizable chunk of Christians in the Bible Belt are pretty scary.
again, i would be tempted to agree w/ YOUR statement. :rolleyes: I think 47% of america is scared of them. :neener: the point was most of the m****ms in this country are just like the rest of the religious type. you cant take this guys profile and start implying unlawful searches. :bhead
anybody carrying a gun with their finger hovering trigger would have 911 lit up. same with having a rifle over your shoulder in a kmart parking lot. :old:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: 100Coogn on December 04, 2015, 09:47:55 AM
the point was most of the m****ms in this country are just like the rest of the religious type. you cant take this guys profile and start implying unlawful searches. :bhead
Just like? Depends on your worldview. To find what the latest Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, or Catholic extremist has been up to lately, you have to dig pretty deep. The body count isn't even comparable when you do find it.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 04, 2015, 10:13:09 AM
So it's official they were terrorists it was on the BBC news.
Who said they were not?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 10:19:04 AM
he's got a gun. looks like a muslim. he's got weird eyes, like he's up to something. and most important he's got a beard.
semp
OK, so you're afraid "saying something" would turn into millions of people reporting rather innocent events and/or authorities would mindlessly and doggedly investigate such things as two men with beards on the corner of 5th and Main?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
Just like? Depends on your worldview. To find what the latest Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, or Catholic extremist has been up to lately, you have to dig pretty deep. The body count isn't even comparable when you do find it.
The guy in Colorado last week came close and got some officers. Considering recent events that's a one to one ratio.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 04, 2015, 10:40:31 AM
Describe his behavior and how it looks suspicious to you.
Exactly, Triton. Nat mentions "unlawful search". I'm under the distinct impression he hasn't a clue as to what that is.
The standard is probable cause and a warrant signed by a judge - this last who has been presented with the probable cause and evaluated same. Try to get a warrant based on "he's a religious guy with a beard". Good luck.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 11:09:36 AM
I would call having the cops knock on your door a search. For you "others", this is a offensive move and not seen kindly.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 11:58:49 AM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 12:12:31 PM
Exactly, Triton. Nat mentions "unlawful search". I'm under the distinct impression he hasn't a clue as to what that is.
The standard is probable cause and a warrant signed by a judge - this last who has been presented with the probable cause and evaluated same. Try to get a warrant based on "he's a religious guy with a beard". Good luck.
While we should all keep a careful eye on the state's role in our daily lives, it's pretty sad to think there are people in this country that would rather we all shut up and mind our own business to the extreme. When people see things they think is out of place, but have more fear of being labeled intolerant than they do of real harm being done to members of their own community, political correctness and minding your own business has gone too far.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 04, 2015, 12:20:52 PM
While we should all keep a careful eye on the state's role in our daily lives, it's pretty sad to think there are people in this country that would rather we all shut up and mind our own business to the extreme. When people see things they think is out of place, but have more fear of being labeled intolerant than they do of real harm being done to members of their own community, political correctness and minding your own business has gone too far.
I agree, but will say our "world" is so different than what it was. I grew up in in 70-80's in the suburbs of Montgomery Alabama. The worst violence I personally had to deal with was a fist fight.
Today, unfortunately we need to be vigilant more than ever to our surroundings and many cannot trust their neighbors.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 04, 2015, 12:51:23 PM
Everyone Gibbers on about too many guns in America!
This has proved to be untrue because the police had to finish this filth off.
The usual rubbish from the family they did not see it coming.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 01:06:05 PM
While we should all keep a careful eye on the state's role in our daily lives, it's pretty sad to think there are people in this country that would rather we all shut up and mind our own business to the extreme. When people see things they think is out of place, but have more fear of being labeled intolerant than they do of real harm being done to members of their own community, political correctness and minding your own business has gone too far.
You still assume he was seen practicing ieds in his back yard. I still assume the neighbor is racist and did not see much. Its hard to say since we do not know what he saw...hindsight is all we got.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 01:15:56 PM
You still assume he was seen practicing ieds in his back yard. I still assume the neighbor is racist and did not see much. Its hard to say since we do not know what he saw...hindsight is all we got.
I don't have to assume he was right. He was. He apparently saw a series of things that he thought was suspicious. That your sensitivities are so highly tuned as to jump immediately to racism is exactly the problem. As a matter of fact, people like you so worried him that he sat on his hands and said nothing. That should make you happy.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 01:34:04 PM
I don't have to assume he was right. He was. He apparently saw a series of things that he thought was suspicious. That your sensitivities are so highly tuned as to jump immediately to racism is exactly the problem. As a matter of fact, people like you so worried him that he sat on his hands and said nothing. That should make you happy.
Ouch , your book about me and him should be a great read. Maybe have PJ write the forward. :x I'd still take dollar bet he did not see much, he is racist, and the lynch mob is insane. :cheers:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 01:35:20 PM
I agree, but will say our "world" is so different than what it was. I grew up in in 70-80's in the suburbs of Montgomery Alabama. The worst violence I personally had to deal with was a fist fight.
Today, unfortunately we need to be vigilant more than ever to our surroundings and many cannot trust their neighbors.
It is for sure. It's ironic that years ago people actually were a bit more "involved" in what was going on around them, even though it seems they didn't need to be.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 01:49:15 PM
It is for sure. It's ironic that years ago people actually were a bit more "involved" in what was going on around them, even though it seems they didn't need to be.
:rolleyes:
A tin foil hat and pitch fork will make your march more enjoyable to watch. :neener:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Serenity on December 04, 2015, 02:04:18 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: BuckShot on December 04, 2015, 02:14:32 PM
Reopen the internment camps.
"You have one month to leave the country or report to the closest internment facility."
I'm joking but it would work. Do it alongside deporting 11 million illegal aliens.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Triton28 on December 04, 2015, 02:17:42 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
lets look at the facts.
1) He brought up racism. this is his excuse, and to me its a sign of his thought process. I can assume racism is on the top of his mind and he is projecting his personal viewpoint. This is a poorly rooted psychoanalysis from me, nothing more nothing less.
2) He did not call the cops. I would assume, like you stated pages ago, because he did not see strong enough evidence. "he did not loose sleep over it" is one way you stated how a logical person could make a decision.
"You have one month to leave the country or report to the closest internment facility."
I'm joking but it would work. Do it alongside deporting 11 million illegal aliens.
:headscratch: did we not give the government the right to look into communications to fight terrorism? are they using that ability to stop terrorists or is this ability tied up in other more profitable ventures? it seems we could gather up the individuals under #lovemesomeisis as a start.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 04, 2015, 05:30:52 PM
Everyone Gibbers on about too many guns in America!
This has proved to be untrue because the police had to finish this filth off.
The usual rubbish from the family they did not see it coming.
If one person in that room had a concealed carry I promise you the outcome may have been different. The police had to finish them off because bystandars are not going to be out running in public with their assilt rifles looking for these killers, as to be seen as a suspect instead. That's just stupid.
The people who lose are the people who do not have the opportunity to protect themselves. It doesn't matter what country you are in, bad people will always find a way to do bad things. IED bombs are illegal, do you think those people cared if they were breaking the law? Hell no.
Taking away guns only allows people to not have the opportunity to protect themselves with concealed carry permits.
The acts these cowards portrayed could have happened in any country. Much like in France, which their people have no chance of defending themselves against any form of attack.
These people are nothing but cowards. Their psychology is completely messed up and the only way we will be able to catch these types of people are by killing the sources in the Middle East.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 04, 2015, 06:17:10 PM
They bought something from Cheaper Than Dirt in Fort Worth.
Quote
FBI agents took invoices from two gun shops, one based in Fort Worth, as well as rounds of .223-caliber and a 9-millimeter ammunition, weapons accessories and an iPhone when they searched the California home of the suspects in the San Bernardino shooting.
The invoices do not say what was purchased from Cheaper Than Dirt, which according to its website is a gun discounter based in Fort Worth, and the second online gun shop, Budsgunshop.com.
Messages left for Cheaper Than Dirt’s chief operating officer, Roberta Wilson, were not immediately returned.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 04, 2015, 07:02:21 PM
Ouch , your book about me and him should be a great read. Maybe have PJ write the forward. :x I'd still take dollar bet he did not see much, he is racist, and the lynch mob is insane. :cheers:
I'm not interested in the content of his heart. Let's say he was - and reported it. Other people would then have been brought into the evaluation loop. It's entirely possible that they'd have dismissed it. OTOH, had it been deemed worthy of follow-on, lives could've been saved, quite independently of his motivations.
As for the rest of your argument, the current process in no way differs from the historical one. The only thing that differs are the (mainly electronic) surveillance tools placed in the hands of enforcement. I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act or DHS, who gave him a pass (raising the question of their own value) but this potential informant is exactly the kind of vigilance that is a. better than stupid and invasive top-down approaches, and b. handled per due process and at the local level like it should be.
Your issue regarding the potential informanbt's state of mind strikes me as irrelevant and illogical.
Ad for the book - most of it is filler for the hot scenes. I recommend skimming between them.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 07:23:41 PM
I'm not interested in the content of his heart. Let's say he was - and reported it. Other people would then have been brought into the evaluation loop. It's entirely possible that they'd have dismissed it. OTOH, had it been deemed worthy of follow-on, lives could've been saved, quite independently of his motivations.
As for the rest of your argument, the current process in no way differs from the historical one. The only thing that differs are the (mainly electronic) surveillance tools placed in the hands of enforcement. I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act or DHS, who gave him a pass (raising the question of their own value) but this potential informant is exactly the kind of vigilance that is a. better than stupid and invasive top-down approaches, and b. handled per due process and at the local level like it should be.
Your issue regarding the potential informanbt's state of mind strikes me as irrelevant and illogical.
Ad for the book - most of it is filler for the hot scenes. I recommend skimming between them.
the did get this guy... http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/massive-weapons-hoard-found-at-home-of-arrested-li-man/ar-AAg2jfo?li=BBnb7Kz
a good bust, but no beard. ;)
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 04, 2015, 07:57:06 PM
A good case in point for equal justice. Who got the pass? Not the guy you cite.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 08:05:46 PM
what was the crime this guy did? scare the government? they were obviously watching him and needed a win.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: bustr on December 04, 2015, 08:26:26 PM
Based on things like this, anyone who shoots match, or precision bench, or steel targets, or just likes to shoot a lot on weekends will become a suspect. Many of them buy by the 1000rnd case, have probably 10,000rnds in the house, and it's pretty obvious when you carry one of those 1000rnd boxes into the house. The media likes to make sure their brain dead viewers get the full monti on numbers of rounds the person had in their home. Wonderful job the media has done over the last 30 years to help people feel their neighbor is a nut case for owning guns and liking to shoot on a regular basis.
The guy in the article is an anomaly. Based on the occurrence of his kind of anomaly, all aircraft on the planet should be grounded because one will eventually crash for any number of reasons and "mass murder" several hundred passengers. The same logic as, if it saves one life, it's worth depriving the planet's population's access to air transportation.
His crime was impersonating an officer, if he pulled anyone over, unlawful detainment with a fire arm, and whatever goes along with the carry regulations for that state he violated. Owning the guns and ammo is a none starter. You can own as many guns and as much ammo as you can afford. At least he didn't try to fake being an FFL. The BATF guys would not have been kind, and are known to fudge the truth technically on what they uncover in your home when they file charges.
Airplanes and cars are still more dangerous than crazy white guys with guns in gun free zones.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2015, 08:43:23 PM
Based on things like this, anyone who shoots match, or precision bench, or steel targets, or just likes to shoot a lot on weekends will become a suspect. Many of them buy by the 1000rnd case, have probably 10,000rnds in the house, and it's pretty obvious when you carry one of those 1000rnd boxes into the house. The media likes to make sure their brain dead viewers get the full monti on numbers of rounds the person had in their home. Wonderful job the media has done over the last 30 years to help people feel their neighbor is a nut case for owning guns and liking to shoot on a regular basis.
The guy in the article is an anomaly. Based on the occurrence of his kind of anomaly, all aircraft on the planet should be grounded because one will eventually crash for any number of reasons and "mass murder" several hundred passengers. The same logic as, if it saves one life, it's worth depriving the planet's population's access to air transportation.
His crime was impersonating an officer, if he pulled anyone over, unlawful detainment with a fire arm, and whatever goes along with the carry regulations for that state he violated. Owning the guns and ammo is a none starter. You can own as many guns and as much ammo as you can afford. At least he didn't try to fake being an FFL. The BATF guys would not have been kind, and are known to fudge the truth technically on what they uncover in your home when they file charges.
Airplanes and cars are still more dangerous than crazy white guys with guns in gun free zones.
he had steroids in the house as well and looking at his picture i would guess he used them. he was living the dream. :rofl when he got pulled over he turned on his self installed flashers and showed his badge. :rofl
“Right now it looks like he's a wacky gun enthusiast and a police buff," the source said. :police:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 04, 2015, 08:52:27 PM
OK, so you're afraid "saying something" would turn into millions of people reporting rather innocent events and/or authorities would mindlessly and doggedly investigate such things as two men with beards on the corner of 5th and Main?
no, what I am saying is you can sit here and talk all you want about reporting. but like the neighbor said, he didnt want to be accused of racism. really? I call it bs. the guy didnt call because he wasnt sure and now he wants the attention.
which brings back my original question. how are we supposed to know? the truth is we dont. let's say the guy calls. police shows up and ask questions, is the shooter supposed to raise his hands and give up? police cant just go thru the door.
lots of should've, could've. but to be honest slim chance if anybody had called that the police would have had enough to even hold them.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 04, 2015, 10:42:28 PM
If one person in that room had a concealed carry I promise you the outcome may have been different. The police had to finish them off because bystandars are not going to be out running in public with their assilt rifles looking for these killers, as to be seen as a suspect instead. That's just stupid.
The people who lose are the people who do not have the opportunity to protect themselves. It doesn't matter what country you are in, bad people will always find a way to do bad things. IED bombs are illegal, do you think those people cared if they were breaking the law? Hell no.
Taking away guns only allows people to not have the opportunity to protect themselves with concealed carry permits.
The acts these cowards portrayed could have happened in any country. Much like in France, which their people have no chance of defending themselves against any form of attack.
These people are nothing but cowards. Their psychology is completely messed up and the only way we will be able to catch these types of people are by killing the sources in the Middle East.
it's next to impossible to have a CC around here.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 05, 2015, 12:27:02 AM
no, what I am saying is you can sit here and talk all you want about reporting. but like the neighbor said, he didnt want to be accused of racism. really? I call it bs. the guy didnt call because he wasnt sure and now he wants the attention.
which brings back my original question. how are we supposed to know? the truth is we dont. let's say the guy calls. police shows up and ask questions, is the shooter supposed to raise his hands and give up? police cant just go thru the door.
lots of should've, could've. but to be honest slim chance if anybody had called that the police would have had enough to even hold them.
semp
This I would call a plausible alternative argument.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: RTR on December 05, 2015, 01:51:19 AM
How is this entire thread still active???
RTR
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 05, 2015, 02:08:20 AM
If one person in that room had a concealed carry I promise you the outcome may have been different. The police had to finish them off because bystandars are not going to be out running in public with their assilt rifles looking for these killers, as to be seen as a suspect instead. That's just stupid.
The people who lose are the people who do not have the opportunity to protect themselves. It doesn't matter what country you are in, bad people will always find a way to do bad things. IED bombs are illegal, do you think those people cared if they were breaking the law? Hell no.
Taking away guns only allows people to not have the opportunity to protect themselves with concealed carry permits.
The acts these cowards portrayed could have happened in any country. Much like in France, which their people have no chance of defending themselves against any form of attack.
These people are nothing but cowards. Their psychology is completely messed up and the only way we will be able to catch these types of people are by killing the sources in the Middle East.
They are not cowards they are savages, the only way to sort this out is to get out of the Middle east and have nothing to do with any of them.
In the UK you dont have to learn English only a made up story of being oppressed, (i have worked with a refugee who was a militant)
Which means in reality you do not have the ability to understand that other cultures exist!
The social media which has been created to be used by imbeciles has also allowed them to carry on as if they have not left the kak hole they have left.
Pakistan is the biggest disgrace on the planet, it ceates people who are angry with every religion and people, it has no allies.
Its easy, if any immigrant complains about the country they have settled in (ONCE) they should be deported immediatley.
We have Poles in the UK who complain about the country that gives them a chance to do other things instead of picking turnips.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 05, 2015, 09:40:00 AM
Now that's the kind of Northerner talk everyone loves.
While I frequently agree with violator's perspective, I'm definitely more aligned with Zack's pie hole on the matter of cowardice. I don't see this people as cowardly at all. Indeed, I think it takes pretty big stones to drop off the baby and intentionally go commit acts that are almost certain to lead to your own death.
Savage? Perhaps... But I just think of them as the implacable foe. Thus, a terrible calculus of the type advanced by W T Sherman has to apply at about this juncture, and it doesn't bode well. Sherman, pre-Civil War, estimated the number of Confederat casualties required to successfully conclude the war. He did this by taking an estimate of fighting-age males, reasoning that most of them would not be persuaded without death or traumatic injury striking in close proximity.
As for The curious focus on that aberrant loon cited, Bustr, of course you're right... You just need to let go of the idea that the citation is concerned with "justice". It became clear to me, mainly from all the gloat icons, that sticking it to person/persons unknown is more attractive for some. You'll see this at all levels of American society. Lynch's curious warbling yesterday being another fine example... Baffling, unless you think like a perp, a thing I know how to do because of a past youthful life that I suspect I have in common with some. Disclaimer: my perpetration was notably petty and off the public record, thank god... But there is a mindset that Patty Smith characterized, imj, in a song that features an epithet in the title.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Serenity on December 05, 2015, 10:54:02 AM
no, what I am saying is you can sit here and talk all you want about reporting. but like the neighbor said, he didnt want to be accused of racism. really? I call it bs. the guy didnt call because he wasnt sure and now he wants the attention.
I would argue that people like you, whom immediately throw the word racist at anyone who dares think unlike you, is what caused him not to report it...
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 11:17:34 AM
I would argue that people like you, whom immediately throw the word racist at anyone who dares think unlike you, is what caused him not to report it...
I would argue this is why you get rule 4. Didn't any body ever tell you not to pass judgement. Judge not les thy be judged or something like that.
Any who, no your wrong anyway. Semp never said or implied anything. Sorry try again. :neener:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Serenity on December 05, 2015, 11:28:52 AM
I would argue this is why you get rule 4. Didn't any body ever tell you not to pass judgement. Judge not les thy be judged or something like that.
Any who, no your wrong anyway. Semp never said or implied anything. Sorry try again. :neener:
You're telling ME not to pass judgement?! Semp is the one outright saying the neighbor is racist just for having had suspicions of someone who turned out to be a terrorist!
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Spikes on December 05, 2015, 11:34:58 AM
You're telling ME not to pass judgement?! Semp is the one outright saying the neighbor is racist just for having had suspicions of someone who turned out to be a terrorist!
Maybe it is just me, but I don't read it that way. If everyone did that on a daily basis it would be hell for a lot of innocent people and "the boy who cried wolf" would ensue.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 05, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
Now that's the kind of Northerner talk everyone loves.
While I frequently agree with violator's perspective, I'm definitely more aligned with Zack's pie hole on the matter of cowardice. I don't see this people as cowardly at all. Indeed, I think it takes pretty big stones to drop off the baby and intentionally go commit acts that are almost certain to lead to your own death.
Savage? Perhaps... But I just think of them as the implacable foe. Thus, a terrible calculus of the type advanced by W T Sherman has to apply at about this juncture, and it doesn't bode well. Sherman, pre-Civil War, estimated the number of Confederat casualties required to successfully conclude the war. He did this by taking an estimate of fighting-age males, reasoning that most of them would not be persuaded without death or traumatic injury striking in close proximity.
As for The curious focus on that aberrant loon cited, Bustr, of course you're right... You just need to let go of the idea that the citation is concerned with "justice". It became clear to me, mainly from all the gloat icons, that sticking it to person/persons unknown is more attractive for some. You'll see this at all levels of American society. Lynch's curious warbling yesterday being another fine example... Baffling, unless you think like a perp, a thing I know how to do because of a past youthful life that I suspect I have in common with some. Disclaimer: my perpetration was notably petty and off the public record, thank god... But there is a mindset that Patty Smith characterized, imj, in a song that features an epithet in the title.
Imo, its about the psychology of the people behind their actions. These people believe so much that their god will appreciate them and charish them in the aftertlife by killng and causing terrorism in the world with who do not believe their specific theology. Furthermore, they believe that getting the community against their theology will intern cause more people to join their cult out of spite of their religion or prejudices from the public. I think in the middle East it is more of an escape route for stuggling people who have absolutely nothing. In the US, its about carrying on the ideology. These are people who value the afterlife moreso than the reality of their life. They kill because their life here is worth nothing. If they think that about themselves think how they feel about other people. On the other side, the terror will cause militaristic action, higher security protocols, and more social differences in our society.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 12:11:23 PM
I think it like this. They have their view. It means a lot to them. To go against it is a violation against what they believe and their place on earth is to preserve their way of life. Just like us. Zack is right. As long as we are a threat to their culture there will be war. But when the oils gone I bet they still mad. But I'm guessing. Maybe love wins in the end. I sure hope so. :pray
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Widewing on December 05, 2015, 12:18:17 PM
no the question posted before is why didnt somebody call the police. my answer is how are we supposed to know. should I report anybody with a gun?
I have seen in my apartment complex
-people loading multiple guns in cars -wearing cammo -wearing all black -having a beard -talking about hoarding guns and ammo -talking non-sense about the government wanting to take over (they're fricking nuts)
so tell me how am I supposed to know somebody is up to no good?
semp
Sounds like some of the crowd I see at the range much of the time.... I'm the one standing out, wearing blue jeans and a ball cap... I've always wondeed why folks go to the range in full camo, what does it do for them? Does it make them a better shooter? Helps them zero their rifles? I wear what I always wear when I have a day off, except for hearing protection. I even wear that when using power tools (leaf blower, mostly).
Folks, you have to know people well enough to note a change in behavior. Judging by appearance alone is probably unwise. That doesn't mean you don't pay attention, though.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 05, 2015, 12:27:46 PM
You're telling ME not to pass judgement?! Semp is the one outright saying the neighbor is racist just for having had suspicions of someone who turned out to be a terrorist!
i never said the neighbor is racist. the neighbor himself said he didn't call the police because he didn't want to appear racist.
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 05, 2015, 12:30:34 PM
It is much more likely that we will be killed by an American with guns than by a terrorist; this is not opinion, it is statistics. Observant, yes, fearful and opposed to Muslims, no. One cannot judge a religion by the extremists that claim that religion, they are aberrations, and I fear Christian extremists every bit as much as Muslim extremists. Let's not forget that there are Hindu and Jewish extremists also. It's the primary reason that I believe religion is and should be a personal thing, not to be imposed or argued with anyone.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2015, 01:07:41 PM
I think that your statistics are off on that one, though.
O RLY?
Quote
Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Lewis Dear was a doomsday Christian who believed his religion gave him the right to do anything he wanted. This is what one of his three ex-wives said about him in divorce documents dated in 1993. Raw Story reports that the accused shooter’s interpretation of Christian dogma emboldened him to commit various crimes over the course of his life — and, ultimately, the shooting at a Colorado Planned Parenthood that killed three innocent people.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
ouch, its amazing what a little intolerant belief can do. hence why strangers and co-workers should not talk on these issues. :old:
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 05, 2015, 04:12:17 PM
Brooke, the perpetrators of every bombing and/or murder at an abortion clinic have professed strong Christian "values". Christian lawmakers continuously attempted to violate the Constitution and outlaw gay marriage. We are all entitled to hold the moral values that our faith espouses, but they are PERSONAL values, and the Constitution expressly states that " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ". Any law that is solely based on certain religions' opinions, values et cetera, which those laws were, violated other religions' rights to have different views. That is religious extremism, though not of a violent type. I would not want to have any one religion or denomination mandating my personal religious views, or mandating them on someone who espouses no religion at all. There are Hindus killing Muslims, Jews burning Arab boys to death, and believe me, any of those types of extremism can come here.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 05, 2015, 05:23:37 PM
:ahand
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Serenity on December 05, 2015, 06:10:08 PM
Probability and statistics is about looking at all of the outcomes to see how often they arise.
Thus, to find out the odds of rolling snake eyes vs. rolling a total of six on two dice, you don't take one example of a person who rolled snake eyes and conclude that the odds of rolling snake eyes is 100%.
Likewise, if you want to cite that you use statistics, you wouldn't be equally afraid of murder by Christian extremists as by Muslim extremists because the number of murders in the one case is likely significantly different than the number in the other case. Your illustration of one example is nearly totally totally irrelevant, statistically speaking.
It would be like saying, "It's statistics," and then going on to say, "I'm equally afraid of dying in a car crash as an airplane crash." Then I say, "I don't think you have your statistics correct on that one." And you respond with, "O RLY" and post information about one plane crash, when in fact -- using statistics -- you see that one is vastly less likely to die in a plane crash than a car crash.
Now, if you know the basics of statistics and still used your argument, you should know that the technique of cherry picking one outcome to make a generalization about numerous outcomes is well known as being a lame and transparent debate tactic (even having its own name -- the "anecdotal fallacy").
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2015, 07:02:32 PM
Brooke, the perpetrators of every bombing and/or murder at an abortion clinic have professed strong Christian "values".
Yes, and I, too, would count all of those on the one side.
On the other side, I would count the 1983 Embassy bombing (63 dead), 1983 Beirut barracks (307 dead), 1984 Embassy bombing (24 dead), Lockerbie airline bombing (178 Americans dead), World Trade Center bombing (6 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Ft. Hood (13 dead), and San Bernardino (14 dead). I left out incidents that "only" had 10 or less dead, and I didn't much check on how many Americans were killed in the rest of the couple hundred Islamic terrorist attacks that have happened around the world since 1980.
Did Christian extremists kill 3600 abortion-clinic people since 1980? How about 1/3 as much -- 1000? How about 500? How about 100? What about 10? It's 10 (if you include Robert Dear's recent 3 at Planned Parenthood).
Let's see how many deaths there were from Christian extremists in other areas. Eric Rudolf murdered a person at the Olympics in addition to two others already counted in the previous paragraph.
I spent about 2-3 times as long looking around for examples of deaths from Christian extremist murders than I did Muslim extremist murders, and the above is what I came up with. Maybe I missed something, but if not, here's our final tally.
Christian extremism: 11 Muslim extremism: 3600
So, if you are going to use statistics, which is more likely? Is the difference significant?
If any of you want to double check my numbers or look into things in more detail, here are a few references to get you started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Hajo on December 05, 2015, 07:15:35 PM
Well said Brooke........statistically speaking.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2015, 07:27:42 PM
On to other topics (if we can discuss them here). Note, you and I are being completely respectful of each other in our discussions.
Christian lawmakers continuously attempted to violate the Constitution and outlaw gay marriage. We are all entitled to hold the moral values that our faith espouses, but they are PERSONAL values, and the Constitution expressly states that " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ". Any law that is solely based on certain religions' opinions, values et cetera, which those laws were, violated other religions' rights to have different views. That is religious extremism, though not of a violent type. I would not want to have any one religion or denomination mandating my personal religious views, or mandating them on someone who espouses no religion at all. There are Hindus killing Muslims, Jews burning Arab boys to death, and believe me, any of those types of extremism can come here.
I'm not sure what gay marriage has to do with the statistics we were discussing. The constitution doesn't mention marriage. I don't think the government should be involved in marriage, and that if you get married, it shouldn't be the government giving you some certification of it. Practically speaking, I believe the studies I've read that claim best outcome for children who grow up in a home with a female mother and a male father who are married. However, I also think that it's good to do a lot of things that the government has no business forcing people to do.
I don't want to be forced to do things either. That's why I'm a libertarian and believe that the best way to run things is to follow the Constitution literally, using the plain meaning of its writing. Our government doesn't at all do that these days.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 08:59:43 PM
I know body count is big for some but the number of incidents within areas I am would be more accurate representation of threat to me. Considering my loved ones use planned parenthood that would be a good start.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Vulcan on December 05, 2015, 09:39:02 PM
Yes, and I, too, would count all of those on the one side.
On the other side, I would count the 1983 Embassy bombing (63 dead), 1983 Beirut barracks (307 dead), 1984 Embassy bombing (24 dead), Lockerbie airline bombing (178 Americans dead), World Trade Center bombing (6 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Ft. Hood (13 dead), and San Bernardino (14 dead). I left out incidents that "only" had 10 or less dead, and I didn't much check on how many Americans were killed in the rest of the couple hundred Islamic terrorist attacks that have happened around the world since 1980.
Did Christian extremists kill 3600 abortion-clinic people since 1980? How about 1/3 as much -- 1000? How about 500? How about 100? What about 10? It's 10 (if you include Robert Dear's recent 3 at Planned Parenthood).
Let's see how many deaths there were from Christian extremists in other areas. Eric Rudolf murdered a person at the Olympics in addition to two others already counted in the previous paragraph.
I spent about 2-3 times as long looking around for examples of deaths from Christian extremist murders than I did Muslim extremist murders, and the above is what I came up with. Maybe I missed something, but if not, here's our final tally.
Christian extremism: 11 Muslim extremism: 3600
So, if you are going to use statistics, which is more likely? Is the difference significant?
If any of you want to double check my numbers or look into things in more detail, here are a few references to get you started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre - 8000 muslims killed by Christian extremists right there.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 09:45:21 PM
I'm sorry, you're right, I mixed you up with NatCigg. Which just solidifies my point, that NatCigg, you're telling ME not to pass judgement?!
Right, your still wrong, I've already explained my statement twice. For you I will add I have not drawn any conclusions just a assumption from the extremely limited facts for a hypothetical argument. I did not throw out personal inaccurate unfounded conclusions towards other community members just to further my far fetched social paradox. Additionally, your quick and disturbing statement invites me to rightfully defend myself, and leaves you vulnerable, defending your own character. Now if you have a personal attachment to this guy in California please tell him I'm sorry for assuming he's racist despite his courteous efforts. But I did use the word assume because I'm no sure of my position and knew it would make AS out of U and ME. :salute
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 05, 2015, 09:56:54 PM
I think it like this. They have their view. It means a lot to them. To go against it is a violation against what they believe and their place on earth is to preserve their way of life. Just like us. Zack is right. As long as we are a threat to their culture there will be war. But when the oils gone I bet they still mad. But I'm guessing. Maybe love wins in the end. I sure hope so. :pray
I count 6 "theys", "thems", "theirs", "theys (sic) - they're" in there. Are you sure you want to be leveling speculation about someone else overgeneralizing?
As for the threat, I believe that a theocratic aristocracy in the Muslim faith perceives a threat from Western culture. Agreed there... Whether the issue can be resolved peacefully is, also as you note, open to speculation.
The real question in my mind is how widespread support for Jihad is across the broader span. Why? Because, if there's even a 10% take rate, you're talking about numbers that make the Soviet army look like a joke.
The other question in my mind concerns the historical parallel. How many Germans were party members? How many Southerners were committed to the cause? Sherman's calculus... Becuase, ultimately, to win, there is a certain count of implacable foe that must be defeated. The rest will follow.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2015, 10:11:07 PM
Yes, for any given person him or herself, these odds could be adjusted for your circumstances.
If you aren't specifically an employee of an abortion clinic, you're down to 4 deaths (the 3 at Planned Parenthood and one at Olympics) on the Christian-extremist side since 1980.
If you don't go outside the US, you are down to 3033 deaths on the Muslim extremist side.
Now, if you really want to apply statistics, you would find that the odds of getting injured or killed by extremists of any sort is vanishingly small compared to other risks in life.
Since 1980, here is approx. (rounded to 1 significant digit) how many people died of these other causes: heart disease, 20M cancer, 20M chronic lower respiratory disease, 5M accidents, 5M stroke, 4M alzheimer's, 3M diabetes, 3M flu and pneumonia, 2M kidney infections and other kidney problems, 2M suicide, 1M
So, you are 600 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than to get killed in an attack by Muslim extremists.
You are 180,000 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than to get killed in an attack by Christian extremists.
Getting a flu shot once per year from Walgreens (even factoring in the effectiveness of flu shots being less than 100%) reduces your life risk by orders of magnitude more than your risk from all Muslim and Christian extremist attacks put together.
Here's perhaps a better one. Since 1980, there have been about 1800 people hit by lightning in the US, 160 times more likely than getting killed by a Christian extremist. Getting killed by a Muslim extremist is twice as likely as getting hit by lightning.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2015, 10:34:59 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre - 8000 muslims killed by Christian extremists right there.
This is another debate technique that is lame and a glaring tell of a weak hand -- the red herring. Actually, it's two put together (since again you are bringing up one example and implying that it should hold true across all other examples, which is false). So, red herring and anecdotal fallacies.
We were talking about the risk to an American. If you want to introduce atrocities that are neither in the US nor involve US citizens, there are lots more on both sides that we can bring up, and it is a different discussion. We can talk about all sorts of ethnic cleansing. We can talk about Islamic conquests large portions of the globe while still including the Crusades and the Inquisition. All of it is far afield from what we were discussing.
Here is a list of lots of logical fallacies. I hope that you aren't planning to go through them one by one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 11:38:27 PM
I count 6 "theys", "thems", "theirs", "theys (sic) - they're" in there. Are you sure you want to be leveling speculation about someone else overgeneralizing?
As for the threat, I believe that a theocratic aristocracy in the Muslim faith perceives a threat from Western culture. Agreed there... Whether the issue can be resolved peacefully is, also as you note, open to speculation.
The real question in my mind is how widespread support for Jihad is across the broader span. Why? Because, if there's even a 10% take rate, you're talking about numbers that make the Soviet army look like a joke.
The other question in my mind concerns the historical parallel. How many Germans were party members? How many Southerners were committed to the cause? Sherman's calculus... Becuase, ultimately, to win, there is a certain count of implacable foe that must be defeated. The rest will follow.
not much to worry other than the big dirty nasty fight. I would guess most want stability over anything and therefore there is a peaceful end, especially if we give the people of the land a fair shake.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 11:49:43 PM
that why i say events not deaths. total deaths are irrelevant, the risk is how many of these situations am i likely to encounter. if i avoid crowds i might never see one type. if i do not get birth control, physical exams, and counseling with a trusted and affordable physician i might not see one type. :salute
ps - lately for people like me , i found life is like watching a cops episode on tv, your always routing for the bad guy, and constantly disgusted by the good guys. :rofl :bhead
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 05, 2015, 11:55:31 PM
not much to worry other than the big dirty nasty fight. I would guess most want stability over anything and therefore there is a peaceful end, especially if we give the people of the land a fair shake.
I genuinely would hope such a resolution could be reached. However, history is rife with both examples of people like those you cite being dragooned into an effort they pay for dearly and, in counterpart, foes who levy on them an assessment of collective guilt ( since separating them appears impossible or difficult, though there are moderate Muslim dis avowals of jihad) to burn out the perpetrators.
In short, your wish is wishful. A practical solution may require something akin to what Herr Goebbels might call "totaller krieg". It will come to that if and when these clowns do some damage that most deem unacceptable, since they're sleeping through the litany Brooke cites.
As for equivalence, not at this juncture by the numbers.
Though, I suppose you could trot out 1066, if were examining red herrings. The President certainly went there. I can think of nothing less relevant in today's situation.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 06, 2015, 12:04:44 AM
And that applies to this issue how? It was a different government, nation, motive, philosophy, everything. Are we blaming dem evil nazzies on why natcigg sees justice in sticking it to Johnny US citizen ( your cops ref, confirming my earlier post -and just sub rosa, don't worry, these feelings aren't permanent, keep coming back and the resentments will fade as you start to realize that a lot of the good guys could just as easily be you )?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: guncrasher on December 06, 2015, 12:21:54 AM
Yes, and I, too, would count all of those on the one side.
On the other side, I would count the 1983 Embassy bombing (63 dead), 1983 Beirut barracks (307 dead), 1984 Embassy bombing (24 dead), Lockerbie airline bombing (178 Americans dead), World Trade Center bombing (6 dead), 9/11 (3000 dead), Ft. Hood (13 dead), and San Bernardino (14 dead). I left out incidents that "only" had 10 or less dead, and I didn't much check on how many Americans were killed in the rest of the couple hundred Islamic terrorist attacks that have happened around the world since 1980.
Did Christian extremists kill 3600 abortion-clinic people since 1980? How about 1/3 as much -- 1000? How about 500? How about 100? What about 10? It's 10 (if you include Robert Dear's recent 3 at Planned Parenthood).
Let's see how many deaths there were from Christian extremists in other areas. Eric Rudolf murdered a person at the Olympics in addition to two others already counted in the previous paragraph.
I spent about 2-3 times as long looking around for examples of deaths from Christian extremist murders than I did Muslim extremist murders, and the above is what I came up with. Maybe I missed something, but if not, here's our final tally.
Christian extremism: 11 Muslim extremism: 3600
So, if you are going to use statistics, which is more likely? Is the difference significant?
If any of you want to double check my numbers or look into things in more detail, here are a few references to get you started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
if you gonna include the Beirut barracks, why not also include us soldiers killed in Iraq/Afghanistan?
semp
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 06, 2015, 02:15:20 AM
if you gonna include the Beirut barracks, why not also include us soldiers killed in Iraq/Afghanistan?
semp
Feel free to take those out if you like.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 06, 2015, 03:45:53 AM
Do you get half teacake Brooke doing statistics?
How to lie with statistics by Darrell Duff :old:
Good to read while having a number 2 :old:
So Brooke white Go Go boots who would have thought :rofl
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 06, 2015, 07:28:14 AM
Brooke, since 9/11 45 Americans have been killed by terrorism on US soil, while 48 people have been killed by right wing extremists. http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html Over 7,000 CHILDREN are killed EVERY year by gun violence. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children The odds are so much greater that you will be killed by an American NON-Muslim in this country with a gun. How many people will be killed by someone without police/military response and/or gun training in a live shooter scenario? Think about the woman at a Walmart who was concealed carry licensed and drew and fired at a fleeing SHOPLIFTER. It was only by the grace of God that an innocent was not injured or killed. Also in 2011 over 32,00 were killed by guns, and gun deaths are expected to exceed automobile deaths this year. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: BuckShot on December 06, 2015, 07:49:08 AM
Brooke won this thread. The end
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 06, 2015, 09:05:52 AM
How so, Buckshot? I dare say not!
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 06, 2015, 09:23:49 AM
Brooke, since 9/11 45 Americans have been killed by terrorism on US soil, while 48 people have been killed by right wing extremists. http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html Over 7,000 CHILDREN are killed EVERY year by gun violence. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children The odds are so much greater that you will be killed by an American NON-Muslim in this country with a gun. How many people will be killed by someone without police/military response and/or gun training in a live shooter scenario? Think about the woman at a Walmart who was concealed carry licensed and drew and fired at a fleeing SHOPLIFTER. It was only by the grace of God that an innocent was not injured or killed. Also in 2011 over 32,00 were killed by guns, and gun deaths are expected to exceed automobile deaths this year. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/
Thieves over 18 should be executed, people who break into the workings mans home should be hung.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 06, 2015, 10:14:54 AM
And that applies to this issue how? It was a different government, nation, motive, philosophy, everything. Are we blaming dem evil nazzies on why natcigg sees justice in sticking it to Johnny US citizen ( your cops ref, confirming my earlier post -and just sub rosa, don't worry, these feelings aren't permanent, keep coming back and the resentments will fade as you start to realize that a lot of the good guys could just as easily be you )?
Brooke, since 9/11 45 Americans have been killed by terrorism on US soil, while 48 people have been killed by right wing extremists. http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html (http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html) Over 7,000 CHILDREN are killed EVERY year by gun violence. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children (http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children) The odds are so much greater that you will be killed by an American NON-Muslim in this country with a gun. How many people will be killed by someone without police/military response and/or gun training in a live shooter scenario? Think about the woman at a Walmart who was concealed carry licensed and drew and fired at a fleeing SHOPLIFTER. It was only by the grace of God that an innocent was not injured or killed. Also in 2011 over 32,00 were killed by guns, and gun deaths are expected to exceed automobile deaths this year. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/)
Why did you leave out 9/11? helps your agenda?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 06, 2015, 01:08:58 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 06, 2015, 01:45:10 PM
Do you even Colorado, bro?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 06, 2015, 02:23:27 PM
Over 7,000 CHILDREN are killed EVERY year by gun violence. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children
Also in 2011 over 32,00 were killed by guns, and gun deaths are expected to exceed automobile deaths this year. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/
These are contrived fallacy's by playing with the figures.
In this one they are including inner city gang members and drug dealers as children. Actual children harmed by guns was very small in 2009 and has been going down with overall reductions in crime using fire arms per FBI statistics. The only statistic holding on are those inner city "Children" killing each other over drugs.
Link-1 In the 2009 Kids’ Inpatient Database (KID), 7,391 children under the age of 20 had been hospitalized for injuries from firearms and the majority of those gunshot injuries —4,559—resulted from intentional firearm assaults. 2,149 of those injured were accidents, and 270 were suicide attempts. Of the children who were hospitalized, 453 – 6% – died from their injuries.
Back to using those inner city "Children" killing each other over drugs.
Link-2 Center for American Progress report, which cites CDC data that shows guns will kill more Americans under 25 than cars in 2015.
The CDC has been trying since the Bush administration to get congress to allow them to declare fire arms related injuries and deaths as an epidemic so they can regulate the 2nd amendment null and void. Congress responded with a regulation tied to their funding that would defund them if they continued to push that agenda. So they with the liberal media try to do it by stealth in the hopes of eventually finding their own gay marriage moment with the supreme court.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 06, 2015, 02:41:55 PM
For me, please use complete sentences and correct grammar. I do not understand "Do you even Colorado, bro?".
For the record, I am not your "bro". Maybe you are speaking to someone else who you consider your brother.
It's his Flamewarriors persona coming out. Have to put on the keyboard warrior face and be a delta bravo for no reason.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 06, 2015, 02:47:27 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 06, 2015, 02:50:38 PM
Bustr, gun violence is gun violence, no matter the age. I'm not afraid of guns, I'm afraid of all the people who have the intellect of an ant who think they should own, in one case, 5,000 guns. I'm afraid of those who think just because it's a "right" they should own them without any restriction or licensing, or training. I'm afraid of those who refuse to keep their guns locked up only for them to be stolen and used to potentially kill me or for another child to get hold of it and injure or kill another child or themselves. There are now fewer restrictions and requirements for gun ownership, in many states, then there is to own and drive a car. That is more terrifying than any Muslim extremist, since there's more of a chance that one of you might kill me than a terrorist.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 06, 2015, 02:51:39 PM
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Masherbrum on December 06, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: earl1937 on December 06, 2015, 03:59:43 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Muzzy on December 06, 2015, 04:10:05 PM
I normally don't like chiming in on this either, but it occurs to me that this level of vitriol against muslims would be gold for an ISIS recruiter. It's the kind of stuff you could show to an impressionable and desperate young person to prove that Americans hate them and encourage them to enlist to be a suicide bomber.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: zack1234 on December 06, 2015, 04:14:42 PM
I normally don't like chiming in on this either, but it occurs to me that this level of vitriol against muslims would be gold for an ISIS recruiter. It's the kind of stuff you could show to an impressionable and desperate young person to prove that Americans hate them and encourage them to enlist to be a suicide bomber.
I couldn't have said it better myself, Muzzy, wish I had.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Hajo on December 06, 2015, 05:01:09 PM
I threw the last of the turkey and stuffing out. I was starting to grow feathers and got a yeast infection.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: jeep00 on December 06, 2015, 05:13:45 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Zimme83 on December 06, 2015, 05:32:41 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Copprhed on December 06, 2015, 05:37:33 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 06, 2015, 06:36:17 PM
Doesn't show on my phone, but I bet it the Spanish Inquisition sequence, lmfao, because that is the first thing I thought of when he posted that. Hahahahaha
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 06, 2015, 08:23:01 PM
Doesn't show on my phone, but I bet it the Spanish Inquisition sequence, lmfao, because that is the first thing I thought of when he posted that. Hahahahaha
What's an auto-da-fé? It's what you oughtn't do but you do anyway!
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Zimme83 on December 06, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
Like this one better
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: rpm on December 06, 2015, 09:03:09 PM
I wasn't expecting that.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 06, 2015, 09:11:31 PM
zack is right! hang violent offenders and let kids whip them with sticks!
b
Come on? Could you be more specific? You live for the neener , whether it('s taunting Brooke about funding npr against his will or banging cops.
As heads is tails...
I actually like that third sentence.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: bustr on December 06, 2015, 09:11:36 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 06, 2015, 09:26:12 PM
I once saw a comparison of violent crime stats between Vancouver and Seattle. It's higher in Seattle, until you control for demography. Once you look at the stats for the population of Seattle with a similar ethnic.socioeconomic composition as in Vancouver, voila... No diff.
As for fear of the gun, consider Brazil. The prevalence of guns in Brazil is unknown but certainly high. This is known because private gun ownership is negligible but gun crime is at the highest rate in the world. Indeed, Sao Paolo is recognized as the world's most dangerous city. Total prohibition hasn't helped, but it certainly ensures that you cannot purchase weapons for self-defense unless you want to be a criminal. if you think you're going to eliminate 400 million legal and illegal weapons, you're living in a dream world. Besides, even then, safety is an illusion. Zero legal gun ownership just makes gang home invasion a freebie. After all, only the high capacity magazine evens those odds for the homeowner, as the UK found, post prohibition ( they saw a spike in violent crime). http://www.theamericanengineer.com/british-gun-ban-of-1997-led-to-huge-spike-in-violent-crime/ How's that one working out for you?
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Brooke on December 06, 2015, 09:44:13 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on December 06, 2015, 10:09:25 PM
however we are talking just numbers here. we are more likely to be killed by
By the way, you know that we are ten thousand times more likely to die of the common causes of death than by any of the things you are talking about, right?
Since 1980, here is approx. (rounded to 1 significant digit) how many people died of these other causes: heart disease, 20M cancer, 20M chronic lower respiratory disease, 5M accidents, 5M stroke, 4M alzheimer's, 3M diabetes, 3M flu and pneumonia, 2M kidney infections and other kidney problems, 2M suicide, 1M . . . Here's perhaps a better one. Since 1980, there have been about 1800 people hit by lightning in the US
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: -ammo- on December 06, 2015, 11:20:36 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 07, 2015, 01:27:14 AM
It's the biggest one by far, so we should ignore it, eh?
I can be convinced by complete data. I can't be convinced by techniques like cherry picking data, throwing out significant events that don't match your hypothesis, etc.
for the third time and in before the lok, please add up events not this death count gibberish.
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: NatCigg on December 07, 2015, 01:37:04 AM
Come on? Could you be more specific? You live for the neener , whether it('s taunting Brooke about funding npr against his will or banging cops.
As heads is tails...
I actually like that third sentence.
like many on here that draw such harsh conclusions from how they read, its as if they have their own agenda and read what they want to spill out more nonsense, not giving the fellow the benefit, or better yet keeping comments to their own view and not twisting someones words into bait for a personal attack and shameful springboard toward another right hook. ps a neener is the internet not me. :neener:
like many on here that draw such harsh conclusions from how they read, its as if they have their own agenda and read what they want to spill out more nonsense, not giving the fellow the benefit, or better yet keeping comments to their own view and not twisting someones words into bait for a personal attack and shameful springboard toward another right hook. ps a neener is the internet not me. :neener:
I'm not trying to personally attack you, Nat. I play the ball. It's just that, in your case, the ball often seems to be a simple taunt. Sort of like this post.
As for events, and the count of events as opposed to fatalities, by that standard, we wouldn't be talking about the white sub. We'd be very concerned about mostly minority gangs. This myth of the angry white racist male is just that. Have alook at the UCR data, this selection from 2012 (the trrend holds up, if you want to look at other years as well). Note the under representation of white male murder offenders, both on a total count and on a proportional basis. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2012.xls (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2012.xls)
Title: Re: Another terrorist attack: US Soil
Post by: Skuzzy on December 07, 2015, 06:36:35 AM
After editing 4 pages worth of rule #4 and #14 violations I decided to suspend the people involved and close this thread.