General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on December 18, 2015, 12:29:28 PM
Title: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on December 18, 2015, 12:29:28 PM
So a little background: I'm the biggest Star Wars fan I've ever met. It goes beyond loving the movies, I've read almost every book, every technical diagram, played every game... I know the Star Wars universe inside and out. This is relevant for two reasons: One, I'm invested in this personally, so it means more to me than most. Two, I went in with a bit of a bias, seeing as Disney had already destroyed what I loved most, the Extended Universe (Which WAS, and will ALWAYS be canon in my eyes...)
I tried to keep an open mind, but this is what I thought. From a purely cinematic standpoint, (Ignoring the EU conflicts, and only looking at previous movies)
1) Disney got their hit in early. A Stormtrooper and a random renegade survive a fight, and immediately have a Hannah Montana moment literally jumping up and down saying "You're so great!" "No, YOU'RE great!" "We're such a great team!" WAY to giddy. It wasn't the kind of real emotion we saw particularly in the original trilogy. It was downright Disney.
2) There wasn't much story building. I personally felt as if it was rolling from one fight scene to another without having you really connect with the characters.
3) There was no personal development. EVERYTHING was handed to you upfront. In the first 10 minutes of the male and female meeting, obviously they have feelings for each other and are already making the romantic move. Within the first 10 minutes of seeing the bad guy "He's Han's son". Nothing builds, it's just suddenly there.
4) Everything was TOO easy. This isn't like Death Star easy, where it was a plan to let the Rebels go so they could track them to their base. Every fight scene followed the same script: 1. A thousand bad guys show up. Everyone freaks out. 2. 5 good guys show up. 3. All of the bad guys die or run away from the 5 good guys. There's no suspense, there's never any real feeling of danger. As soon as a Resistance member shows up, everything is peachy.
5) So... apparently The Force is easier to master all of a sudden. A person who has never seen a Jedi, had only heard wives tales and didn't think they were real, gets told once "It's all true", and then on the VERY FIRST TRY controls the mind of a Stormtrooper, beats the Sith Lord in a lightsaber fight (Well, another random person who's never learned to use a Lightsaber also does this, so clearly the good guys will always win easily, no matter WHO they are, without any semblance of struggle) and then manages to overpower his use of the force, all within the first two thirds of the movie.
6) There's another Death Star. X-wings fly down a trench. They slip through a gap, shoot torpedoes, and the whole thing blows up. It's literally IV and VI all over again, but without any of the buildup. Those planetary shields that were a problem on Naboo, Hoth and Endor? Oh, yeah, we can just hyperspace jump INSIDE them, and not have to take them out at all in the Falcon.
7) So... the Empire is gone. I can swallow this. They call themselves something else. And the Republic is back. But... the Republic doesn't do anything to get rid of the New Empire, so Leia is a Rebel. Again. With a small Rebel group fighting the Empire. Again.
The prequels were bad, but they at least FELT like Star Wars. I went into this with a truly open mind, and I came out horribly disappointed. Not only did it pander to the Disney/quick action crowds, but it didn't even FEEL like the universe I'd grown to love.
About the only thing that I'm happy about is that the new Empire has a new symbol, so that my support for the Star Wars universe that was will not be misconstrued for this new low.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: bustr on December 18, 2015, 12:37:39 PM
The Clone Wars animation series had bigger balls and better story lines. Did you ever wonder what would happen to an arse kicking universe after participation trophy's were handed out? Even Space Balls was done better as a spoof. May The Schwartz be with you......
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on December 18, 2015, 12:45:30 PM
The Clone Wars animation series had bigger balls and better story lines. Did you ever wonder what would happen to an arse kicking universe after participation trophy's were handed out? Even Space Balls was done better as a spoof. May The Schwartz be with you......
Bigger balls and better storylines than VII?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: ridley1 on December 18, 2015, 04:23:22 PM
I think Disney was your first clue.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: mthrockmor on December 18, 2015, 04:42:44 PM
It was a joke. Who is this 50 foot Sith Lord junk? I thought all storm troopers were grown in some factory, cloned after Bobafet? Some homeless chick suddenly knows the engineering space of the Falcon? yada, yada, yada, yada....the quality of screen writing was sophomoric, the special effects seemed flimsy, holy cow....its not the $30 in tickets I dropped watching it with my wife and daughter but the late night.
Overall, this strikes me much like a bad movie series such as Home Alone 9 or something. Horrible enough no one takes it serious, enough children buy the tickets to make it profitable.
This is like Godfather III, never should have been made; never to be watched again.
boo
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Rich46yo on December 18, 2015, 05:11:25 PM
Well at least we didnt have to wait to find out who the bad guys father is.
Pretty much a re-hash of all past episodes. Desert planet, cute little robot, always someone having to be saved from the enemy, a weapon able to destroy worlds, the only thing new is a stormie with a conscious. 2 stars at best. I bought an Imax and 2 for X-mas for the wife and I. I pretty much feel like I got robbed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 18, 2015, 06:19:42 PM
It was a joke. Who is this 50 foot Sith Lord junk?
Uhm. It was a HOLOGRAM, or did you completely miss the part where he faded in and out. Good chance he's not nearly that tall. Or did you also think the Emperor was just a big giant head when Empire Strikes Back was released.
Quote
I thought all storm troopers were grown in some factory, cloned after Bobafet?
The Original Trilogy Stormtroopers were NEVER clones. By then all the Clone Troopers had died or retired, and were replaced by conscripts.
Quote
Some homeless chick suddenly knows the engineering space of the Falcon?
1) The Falcon had been on Jakku for who knows how long, and certainly implied to be years. Rey knew where the guy she scavenged for got her, where the guy HE got her from got her, where the guy HE got her from got her, etc. The only thing she didn't know about the ship was that she's the Millennium Falcon, and was stolen from Han to start that chain. Therefore there's a good probability she's been in and around the Falcon doing odd jobs patching her up (she certainly knew about the modifications her boss/whoever made on Jakku).
2) Given who there's a strong probability her parent(s) might be, it's highly possible she had been on the Falcon before and subconsciously remembered minor details.
3) The Falcon is a modified YT-series transport. No matter HOW many modifications Han, Lando, and others made to her, she's STILL a YT-series transport, and they're implied to be an old and well-known design. Rey is demonstrably tech savvy, so could very well have scrounged up schematics.
4) And you're ignoring the Force. Rey may have thought it was just instincts or luck, but she was likely using the Force all along, and IT was guiding her.
Quote
the quality of screen writing was sophomoric, the special effects seemed flimsy, holy cow
The writing was at LEAST on par with the Original Trilogy. There were very few CGI creature effects (most were puppetry, as in the Original Trilogy), and the film relied heavily on practical effects that were later enhanced by CGI, rather than pure CGI work. If you want ACTUAL sophomoric writing and flimsy special effects, go watch the Prequels again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: kilo2 on December 18, 2015, 08:14:18 PM
I didn't think it was bad at all. It was very much like the originals and that's a good thing IMO. I will admit the movie did not take many chances. It showed to me they know what made the originals great and we can expect that same style in the coming movies. I expect them to take bigger chances down the road.
This movie felt like a message to the fans a "we know what made you love this series and we are going to continue in this way" message.
Some people have to realize no movie is ever going to be the original trilogy.
I recommend it. You know they are doing it right when you feel nostalgia.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: kilo2 on December 18, 2015, 08:45:06 PM
So a little background: I'm the biggest Star Wars fan I've ever met. It goes beyond loving the movies, I've read almost every book, every technical diagram, played every game... I know the Star Wars universe inside and out. This is relevant for two reasons: One, I'm invested in this personally, so it means more to me than most. Two, I went in with a bit of a bias, seeing as Disney had already destroyed what I loved most, the Extended Universe (Which WAS, and will ALWAYS be canon in my eyes...)
I tried to keep an open mind, but this is what I thought. From a purely cinematic standpoint, (Ignoring the EU conflicts, and only looking at previous movies)
1) Disney got their hit in early. A Stormtrooper and a random renegade survive a fight, and immediately have a Hannah Montana moment literally jumping up and down saying "You're so great!" "No, YOU'RE great!" "We're such a great team!" WAY to giddy. It wasn't the kind of real emotion we saw particularly in the original trilogy. It was downright Disney.
2) There wasn't much story building. I personally felt as if it was rolling from one fight scene to another without having you really connect with the characters.
3) There was no personal development. EVERYTHING was handed to you upfront. In the first 10 minutes of the male and female meeting, obviously they have feelings for each other and are already making the romantic move. Within the first 10 minutes of seeing the bad guy "He's Han's son". Nothing builds, it's just suddenly there.
4) Everything was TOO easy. This isn't like Death Star easy, where it was a plan to let the Rebels go so they could track them to their base. Every fight scene followed the same script: 1. A thousand bad guys show up. Everyone freaks out. 2. 5 good guys show up. 3. All of the bad guys die or run away from the 5 good guys. There's no suspense, there's never any real feeling of danger. As soon as a Resistance member shows up, everything is peachy.
5) So... apparently The Force is easier to master all of a sudden. A person who has never seen a Jedi, had only heard wives tales and didn't think they were real, gets told once "It's all true", and then on the VERY FIRST TRY controls the mind of a Stormtrooper, beats the Sith Lord in a lightsaber fight (Well, another random person who's never learned to use a Lightsaber also does this, so clearly the good guys will always win easily, no matter WHO they are, without any semblance of struggle) and then manages to overpower his use of the force, all within the first two thirds of the movie.
6) There's another Death Star. X-wings fly down a trench. They slip through a gap, shoot torpedoes, and the whole thing blows up. It's literally IV and VI all over again, but without any of the buildup. Those planetary shields that were a problem on Naboo, Hoth and Endor? Oh, yeah, we can just hyperspace jump INSIDE them, and not have to take them out at all in the Falcon.
7) So... the Empire is gone. I can swallow this. They call themselves something else. And the Republic is back. But... the Republic doesn't do anything to get rid of the New Empire, so Leia is a Rebel. Again. With a small Rebel group fighting the Empire. Again.
The prequels were bad, but they at least FELT like Star Wars. I went into this with a truly open mind, and I came out horribly disappointed. Not only did it pander to the Disney/quick action crowds, but it didn't even FEEL like the universe I'd grown to love.
About the only thing that I'm happy about is that the new Empire has a new symbol, so that my support for the Star Wars universe that was will not be misconstrued for this new low.
To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO. A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.
1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at. 2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place. 3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy. 4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene) 5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them. 6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have. 7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.
The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on December 18, 2015, 08:59:39 PM
To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO. A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.
1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at. 2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place. 3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy. 4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene) 5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them. 6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have. 7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.
The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.
What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?
3. While Luke is following it, it still takes him a while to believe in it. "How can I see anything with the blast shield down?!"
5. It takes Luke a movie and a quarter just to move a lightsaber and even then it's a struggle. We don't see it from Anakin until the second movie either.
7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 18, 2015, 09:12:27 PM
To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO. A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.
1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at. 2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place. 3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy. 4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene) 5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them. 6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have. 7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.
The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.
1) Poe struck me as pretty hyperactive in general. He's kind of like Peter Quill crossed with a ferret. I actually found it an interesting contrast from some of the other pilots we've seen, who tend to have that stand-offish cool. Just look at Red Leader, Gold Five, and Wedge (well, Wedge in Empire and Jedi, he was still young and excitable in the original film). They all speak in that very professional monotone. Whereas Dameron is very animated and enthusiastic about flying. That's just who he is, and there really ARE people like that in real life.
3/5) I think it's a combination of natural talent, and POSSIBLE some early training she got before she was abandoned, and just forgot about. As much as I hate using the Prequels a similar thing happened with Anakin; he was able to naturally draw on the Force in Episode I without even realizing he was doing it. Luke did it, too; the Force was the entire reason he was able to hit the exhaust port on the Death Star (Red Leader came close, but his timing was just a hair off). Rey was probably doing much the same thing. And remember, it took her a couple tries to Mind Trick that Stormtrooper. Her only other real (intentional) Force feat was summoning the lightsaber to her hand.
6) It's not like Superweapon of the Week wasn't a bad running joke in the EU already (ESPECIALLY thanks to Kevin J. Anderson). And, well, the Original Trilogy set the precedent that the Empire loves superweapons, so the the First Order decided to go for it, too.
7) This is exactly something the original Expanded Universe ran with. The Empire did NOT disappear with the Emperor's death. It was succeeded by the Imperial Remnant proper, along with dozens of individual warlords grabbing up as much territory for themselves as they could (Zsinj, Terradoc, etc.). We're just seeing the new version of that factionalism.
And I agree, this movie actually FELT like Star Wars.
As I said in another thread, when I started thinking about it, the fact that Episode VII follows much the same formula as the original is NOT a bad thing, because the formula that Star Wars ITSELF followed is so indelibly, inextricably linked to the formula that underlies ALL human myth. Lucas may have sought inspiration from Flash Gordon and Kurosawa, but the single most important source was Joseph Campbell. The formula that the Original Trilogy follows is a very deeply-rooted one, and it's precisely why Star Wars is so culturally resonant.
What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?
I read all the main post-Jedi stuff up through the end of New Jedi Order. And believe me, it was a LOT of miss. Everything not written by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston wasn't fit to wipe your @#$% with as toilet paper.
Quote
7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.
You uh, actually read the opening crawl, right? Because they AREN'T ignoring it. The Resistance is being armed and supported by the Republic, and Leia was sent BY the Republican Senate to deal with it. It was spelled out in ACTUAL WORDS:
Quote
With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Oragana leads a brave RESTISTANCE.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: kilo2 on December 18, 2015, 09:14:39 PM
What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?
3. While Luke is following it, it still takes him a while to believe in it. "How can I see anything with the blast shield down?!"
5. It takes Luke a movie and a quarter just to move a lightsaber and even then it's a struggle. We don't see it from Anakin until the second movie either.
7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.
I did not get into the Thrawn series. Read Heir to the empire. I loved the Old Republic stuff such as the Revan series. I also like the X-Wing series.
3. and then he uses the force successfully to block the shots from the training droid. 5. see above 7. New Republic is probably a shadow of the former due to the upheaval of an empire collapsing.
Depending on your mindset going into it anything can be viewed in positive or negative light.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Easyscor on December 18, 2015, 10:56:20 PM
Serenity,
I didn't have much hope for it after the Disney announcement. I thought it was much like the rep. for EA buying games to take out the competition.
Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?
Dialog! Dialog is the most important thing. And I would agree with your point number one Serenity, except for one small detail. That scene was a deliberate slap at the lack of comment after a setpoint battle scene in the original series. They always survive, and other than a smirk from Han or a quip from Leia, nothing but (to paraphrase), "on to the next planet!" Lucas loved Saturday morning cliff hangers and that's how he wrote it.
Your point 6 is valid! I hated the whole Death Star repeat in the first series but since you've called out the Death Star repeat, I'm surprised you didn't criticize the new bar scene as another repeat, for the umteenth time. I hate that Disney used a Bigger Bader Death Star as the focal point for the action and agree the smaller battles felt forced but that's what Hollywood does. If ten bad guys won't seem threatening enough, why, we'll make it 20 or 30. Never mind that the hero might be pinned down or out flanked to provide the suspense.
I'm a fan of movies, not just Star Wars, so I appreciate classics like Big Country but I liked this Star Wars episode as well. I felt that Disney paid honor to the best of what's gone before. The dialog will grow on you over time and you'll hate that. Others have said it, Disney has given most fans comfortable reassurance that the franchise is in good hands after all. I hope they're right.
I view this as a transition from the old to the new. I think my favorite character was the bar owner, she Yoda. I hope she comes back in the next episode. Otherwise, there are at least a few empty slots yet to be filled and I look forward to seeing this again several times before the next episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Karnak on December 18, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
1) Poe struck me as pretty hyperactive in general. He's kind of like Peter Quill crossed with a ferret. I actually found it an interesting contrast from some of the other pilots we've seen, who tend to have that stand-offish cool. Just look at Red Leader, Gold Five, and Wedge (well, Wedge in Empire and Jedi, he was still young and excitable in the original film). They all speak in that very professional monotone. Whereas Dameron is very animated and enthusiastic about flying. That's just who he is, and there really ARE people like that in real life.
3/5) I think it's a combination of natural talent, and POSSIBLE some early training she got before she was abandoned, and just forgot about. As much as I hate using the Prequels a similar thing happened with Anakin; he was able to naturally draw on the Force in Episode I without even realizing he was doing it. Luke did it, too; the Force was the entire reason he was able to hit the exhaust port on the Death Star (Red Leader came close, but his timing was just a hair off). Rey was probably doing much the same thing. And remember, it took her a couple tries to Mind Trick that Stormtrooper. Her only other real (intentional) Force feat was summoning the lightsaber to her hand.
6) It's not like Superweapon of the Week wasn't a bad running joke in the EU already (ESPECIALLY thanks to Kevin J. Anderson). And, well, the Original Trilogy set the precedent that the Empire loves superweapons, so the the First Order decided to go for it, too.
7) This is exactly something the original Expanded Universe ran with. The Empire did NOT disappear with the Emperor's death. It was succeeded by the Imperial Remnant proper, along with dozens of individual warlords grabbing up as much territory for themselves as they could (Zsinj, Terradoc, etc.). We're just seeing the new version of that factionalism.
And I agree, this movie actually FELT like Star Wars.
As I said in another thread, when I started thinking about it, the fact that Episode VII follows much the same formula as the original is NOT a bad thing, because the formula that Star Wars ITSELF followed is so indelibly, inextricably linked to the formula that underlies ALL human myth. Lucas may have sought inspiration from Flash Gordon and Kurosawa, but the single most important source was Joseph Campbell. The formula that the Original Trilogy follows is a very deeply-rooted one, and it's precisely why Star Wars is so culturally resonant.
That's something the Prequels lost sight of.
I read all the main post-Jedi stuff up through the end of New Jedi Order. And believe me, it was a LOT of miss. Everything not written by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston wasn't fit to wipe your @#$% with as toilet paper.
You uh, actually read the opening crawl, right? Because they AREN'T ignoring it. The Resistance is being armed and supported by the Republic, and Leia was sent BY the Republican Senate to deal with it. It was spelled out in ACTUAL WORDS:
1) I don't disagree with you on him. I'm fine with him. My point one was mostly directed at the scene with Fin and the girl.
3/5) I agree with your earlier points, but my conflict comes in on the action. Faster reflexes and sensing things is one thing. Being able to actually manipulate something is another entirely. We saw Luke who had SOME guidance and instruction could barely move the lightsaber in ESB, and here she OVERPOWERS a Sith Lord without any reason to know it is POSSIBLE to pull a lightsaber to you like that.
6) It's not so much that I mind the fact that it's a Superweapon, but the fact that unlike the Sun Crusher, the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, which are all unique in their shape, their usage, their goal, their function, and their demise, the dialogue in the movie even pointed out "It's another Death Star". Giant planet-destroying sphere? So, we're gonna fly down a trench, chased by TIE fighters, and shoot a thermal exhaust port, right? Oh, it's a thermal exhaust building this time? But it's still a trench, right? It was TOO rinse-repeat.
7) You misunderstand me. It's not the new bad guys that bother me, I'm fine with that, and I actually like that they DID change that a bit more, but the fact that we have the Republic (As pointed out, they're FUNDING the resistance, but that's it...) who doesn't seem that bothered, despite everything that just happened, and again, Leia is the <S>Rebel</> Resistance General (Recycled symbol and all). It doesn't make any sense from what we saw in the original trilogy.
I agree with those authors being the best, and they wrote MOST of it for that reason. There are only a couple of books that I can recall reading that I thought weren't well done, but the thing I liked about it is that for the most part, things changed, the universe developed in a sensible manner, and we saw real character development.
Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?
You're exactly right, which is why I RARELY find myself enjoying anything that isn't specifically comedy, where I know not to take anything seriously.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Easyscor on December 19, 2015, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: Easyscor on Yesterday at 08:56:20 PM
Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?
Then you were predisposed not to like this Star Wars before you bought your ticket.
Was it too much to hope they might put more into it than that? There HAVE been a couple of decent movies since then...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2015, 04:23:23 PM
I think you're focusing far too much on the negative aspects of the basic story and not really seeing the richness of character and mood that it ultimately delivers. Yes, the plot and settings are very derivative of A New Hope; yes, the pacing, editing, and camera work are much faster than the other films, yes, William's score was lost after the first act... but despite this movie felt like a Star Wars movie and not a cheap rip off of one, cough! - prequels! - cough!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Easyscor on December 19, 2015, 05:16:04 PM
I remembered hearing this. Listen for the voice over from the April '15 teaser trailer #2. The scene didn't make this episode, but maybe there was enough concern to release it as an explanation any fan would have absorbed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCc2v7izk8w (for those without Flash)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 19, 2015, 05:38:47 PM
Do you mean Luke's voiceover? Parts of it at least were sampled from his conversation with Leia in Jedi, the rest could have been recorded just for the teaser. Not entirely unusual.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: branch37 on December 19, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
Overall I give the movie a B- Too many cheesy jokes in the writing, and let us not forget that they killed off arguably the world's favorite character in a completely terrible and predictable way. I mean as soon as we found out that the bad guy was Han's son it was pretty obvious what was going to happen in my opinion. I did enjoy the movie though. And it did resemble the plot in episode IV a little too much.
Imagine if Leia had died instead of Han Solo, and Solo vows revenge against his son threatening to follow the path of Anakin Skywalker putting him at odds with Luke at some point. Now there's an interesting thought.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 19, 2015, 06:46:51 PM
I mean as soon as we found out that the bad guy was Han's son it was pretty obvious what was going to happen in my opinion.
Right, because we TOTALLY got blind-sided that Obi-Wan was going to die when he went off alone to shut down the tractor beam.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2015, 07:06:16 PM
In the context of the film and the character, Han's death was a good one despite being predictable. He could have written off Ren as a lost cause and gone about his business. But he placed his faith in Leia and risked himself to turn Ren back; and paid with his life.
I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber. You still knew it was coming, but the scene lingered just long enough that you began to doubt your first instinct, then came the death blow. Perfectly timed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Charge on December 19, 2015, 07:26:36 PM
"I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber."
JarJar directed the film? It figures....
-C+
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2015, 07:38:07 PM
"I also like how JJ dragged out the final scene, a lesser storyteller would have had Ren cut down Han the moment he drew his lightsaber."
JarJar directed the film? It figures....
-C+
If I had called him Abrams, would you claimed the film was directed by a tank? :devil
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Rich46yo on December 19, 2015, 08:26:04 PM
Well related, if you really need your sci-fi infusion on then dont miss "The Expanse" currently on Sy-Fy channel. Its a great story, I even bought the books which read really well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: branch37 on December 19, 2015, 10:43:50 PM
Right, because we TOTALLY got blind-sided that Obi-Wan was going to die when he went off alone to shut down the tractor beam.
Never said it was unexpected. I would have liked to have seen Han in the later movies that's all. You have to admit he was the coolest character in all the movies combined.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: shotgunneeley on December 19, 2015, 11:03:35 PM
Saw it at the IMAX in Branson today. Overall I enjoyed the film, gave it an 8/10. Thought the visuals were great especially at Imax quality. I came in with an open mind ready to pick up where VI had left off as I had not been exposed to the EU.
I had actually expected Chewi to get killed saving Han from his son, then the following movies focusing on the two both trying to overcome their bitterness. Leia felt it immediately, so in all likeliness he is very well dead and will not be making some miraculous recovery. But hey, we never ACTUALLY saw a body - so ya never know!
Rey was too much of a Swiss army knife. Mechanics, self defence, flight operations, languages, control of the force... Like others have said, things just came way too easily for her. It's one thing to be focused and determined, quite another to just start controlling people and objects with your mind without any doubt or frustration. The whole relationship between Fin and Rey was a bit over the top. Would've been cool if she had dissed the Falcan by calling it a "piece of junk" to echo Luke rather than just "garbage".
I never really felt any sense of foreboding with the young sith lord as I did with Vader. Vader's menace was his inhuman detachment and cold self-control when dealing with failure - once the new guy started throwing temper tantrums and removing his mask, all of that was lost. Just no real suspense there. Probably inevitable we were going to learn he was Han and Leia's son, but I figured it would've been when they met at bridge towards the end. Yeah, so the son felt Han land on the planet but didn't feel him 20 feet behind him on the bridge? He turned out to be a very rookie sith.
If they were going to copy a plot line, better episode IV than I!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: branch37 on December 19, 2015, 11:08:36 PM
I never really felt any sense of foreboding with the young sith lord as I did with Vader. Vader's menace was his inhuman detachment and cold self-control when dealing with failure - once the new guy started throwing temper tantrums and removing his mask, all of that was lost. Just no real suspense there. Probably inevitable we were going to learn he was Han and Leia's son, but I figured it would've been when they met at bridge towards the end. Yeah, so the son felt Han land on the planet but didn't feel him 20 feet behind him on the bridge? He turned out to be a very rookie sith.
If they were going to copy a plot line, better episode IV than I!
He had Vader's style at the very beginning but then it kinda petered out as the movie went on. IMO it would have been better to reveal his identity later in the series. I loved the beginning of the movie when we had no clue who he was, like we did with Vader until Episode V.
And while not my favorite Star Wars by far, much much much better than the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2015, 11:25:36 PM
IMO it would have been better to reveal his identity later in the series.
I think we have to take a step outside the film to understand why the Han/Ren relationship played out the way it did. Ford probably signed on under the stipulation that Han be killed off. Knowing that such a beloved character is a dead man, his death must have some weight and meaning attached to it. That is why you had the reveal that Ren is Han's son so early. You had to build up to Han's confrontation with Ren. Revealing Ren's identity later in the film would have only made the confrontation seem more forced and contrived.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 20, 2015, 09:31:25 AM
Rey was too much of a Swiss army knife. Mechanics, self defence, flight operations, languages, control of the force... Like others have said, things just came way too easily for her. It's one thing to be focused and determined, quite another to just start controlling people and objects with your mind without any doubt or frustration. The whole relationship between Fin and Rey was a bit over the top. Would've been cool if she had dissed the Falcan by calling it a "piece of junk" to echo Luke rather than just "garbage".
I think the implication is supposed to be that Rey HAD some training already, she was just so young and it was so long ago she either forgot it, or mentally blocked it out after being marooned on Jakku. And well, Luke was a mechanic, had no problems picking up a blaster or the Falcon's turrets, and while not pulling mind tricks (keep in mind it took Rey a couple tries to get it to work) he was able to use the Force against the remote while blinded. About the only thing he DIDN'T have was the languages, and that can be explained by Jakku having a much more varied population than most of Tattooine.
Quote
I never really felt any sense of foreboding with the young sith lord as I did with Vader. Vader's menace was his inhuman detachment and cold self-control when dealing with failure - once the new guy started throwing temper tantrums and removing his mask, all of that was lost. Just no real suspense there. Probably inevitable we were going to learn he was Han and Leia's son, but I figured it would've been when they met at bridge towards the end. Yeah, so the son felt Han land on the planet but didn't feel him 20 feet behind him on the bridge? He turned out to be a very rookie sith.
Kylo Ren is NOT a Sith, he's a Knight of Ren. Yes, there is a difference. And the entire POINT of Kylo is that he's trying to live up to who he thinks Vader is, but has doubts and uncertainty about himself, and is still struggling with the Light vs. the Dark. Rey even points it out when he tries to mind rape her that he's trying to BE Vader but is NOT Vader, and the thought he can't live up to that is scaring him. Thankfully, I'm glad they DID make him much more vulnerable. I'm also glad they didn't drag out the reveal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: FLS on December 20, 2015, 11:03:47 AM
:D
https://youtu.be/oGQ1tJP_26A
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: 8thJinx on December 20, 2015, 11:59:49 AM
Breaking it down, I think a large majority of the story lines involving the younger cast was great. I thought the Solo and Princess Botox sequences where kind of stale. I also thought the whole star killer base thing was derivative. And you'd think these villains would figure out how to weaponize something without it being to so vulnerable. As for Solo getting killed off, it was either him or someone else. There has to be someone major in the story that gets killed at the 2/3 to 3/4 mark, otherwise the story is flat. It's supposed to result in an "all is lost, how can we possibly win now" moment. I didn't get that feeling when Solo bought it. All in all, I'm glad they made a new movie and plan to make more, but I was hoping for a better story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: WaffenVW on December 20, 2015, 01:22:24 PM
It's the third best SW movie so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Muzzy on December 20, 2015, 04:07:10 PM
I really enjoyed it but I'm not going to presume to debate anyone who didn't.
I will say this though: playing AH really made me feel for those poor X-Wing pilots who got jumped by cons while trying to complete a Jabo mission. It's like a bunch of heavy Corsairs getting jumped by Spits while trying to shut down a base.
I'm pretty sure that Sullustan guy missed the VH, too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 20, 2015, 06:18:49 PM
I really enjoyed it but I'm not going to presume to debate anyone who didn't.
I will say this though: playing AH really made me feel for those poor X-Wing pilots who got jumped by cons while trying to complete a Jabo mission. It's like a bunch of heavy Corsairs getting jumped by Spits while trying to shut down a base.
I'm pretty sure that Sullustan guy missed the VH, too.
Hey man, that wasn't A Sullustan, that was THE Sullustan.
(And yes, it WAS Nien Nunb)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: kilo2 on December 20, 2015, 07:34:32 PM
I think the implication is supposed to be that Rey HAD some training already, she was just so young and it was so long ago she either forgot it, or mentally blocked it out after being marooned on Jakku. And well, Luke was a mechanic, had no problems picking up a blaster or the Falcon's turrets, and while not pulling mind tricks (keep in mind it took Rey a couple tries to get it to work) he was able to use the Force against the remote while blinded. About the only thing he DIDN'T have was the languages, and that can be explained by Jakku having a much more varied population than most of Tattooine.
Kylo Ren is NOT a Sith, he's a Knight of Ren. Yes, there is a difference. And the entire POINT of Kylo is that he's trying to live up to who he thinks Vader is, but has doubts and uncertainty about himself, and is still struggling with the Light vs. the Dark. Rey even points it out when he tries to mind rape her that he's trying to BE Vader but is NOT Vader, and the thought he can't live up to that is scaring him. Thankfully, I'm glad they DID make him much more vulnerable. I'm also glad they didn't drag out the reveal.
I think Kylo Ren could classify as a dark jedi. I like the fact we are seeing a transition in Ren from struggling with light and dark to someone who is completely dark. I do think that Snoke is a Sith and Ren will make the full transition.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Zeagle on December 21, 2015, 09:05:12 AM
I will say this though: playing AH really made me feel for those poor X-Wing pilots who got jumped by cons while trying to complete a Jabo mission. It's like a bunch of heavy Corsairs getting jumped by Spits while trying to shut down a base.
I got the same feeling. Like flying a 190 squadron into a cloud of spits, yaks, and ki84's...lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 21, 2015, 05:52:40 PM
The problem with that idea is that Plagueis has to be dead. There are always only two, so Sidious had to have killed Plagueis to take on Anakin.
I know this is a stretch but hear me out. Sidious said that Plagueis had found a way to keep the ones he cared about from dying. As a sith i'm sure he cared more about himself than anybody. That is a long time to be in hiding or exile or whatever if he did survive. Just a thought. Carry on.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 22, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
I know this is a stretch but hear me out. Sidious said that Plagueis had found a way to keep the ones he cared about from dying. As a sith i'm sure he cared more about himself than anybody. That is a long time to be in hiding or exile or whatever if he did survive. Just a thought. Carry on.
You're very right, I'd forgotten that line. While a stretch, it COULD be something!
The official book also gives a little bit of more info than the movie on Snoke. In the book he tells Ren that he wasn't his (Snoke's) first apprentice and that he has been around for over a thousand years manipulating events all the while.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on December 24, 2015, 01:52:37 PM
The official book also gives a little bit of more info than the movie on Snoke. In the book he tells Ren that he wasn't his (Snoke's) first apprentice and that he has been around for over a thousand years manipulating events all the while.
Hmmm... It seems you're on to something...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 24, 2015, 03:04:26 PM
The official book also gives a little bit of more info than the movie on Snoke. In the book he tells Ren that he wasn't his (Snoke's) first apprentice and that he has been around for over a thousand years manipulating events all the while.
Have you read the book itself or are you just relaying bits from it that you've heard?
Also, if you have read it: how good is the novelization?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 24, 2015, 03:11:25 PM
Another complaint that I've heard around, not sure if anybody here mentioned it, is that John Williams' musical score is lacking.
Well, I just listened to all of it on youtube and I find it to be excellent. Not sure why its presence is not apparent in most of the film; possibly just an effect of the fast pace never allowing the viewer to take in the audio cues. But if you listen to the score on its own, you'll find it has all the hallmarks of a great Williams film score. Rey's theme is especially great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Zacherof on December 24, 2015, 10:20:18 PM
I just want to know where "anakins" saber came from that Luke found..., which fell into God knows where when his hand got cut off by Vader in cloud city..... Or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on December 24, 2015, 10:21:35 PM
Another complaint that I've heard around, not sure if anybody here mentioned it, is that John Williams' musical score is lacking.
Well, I just listened to all of it on youtube and I find it to be excellent. Not sure why its presence is not apparent in most of the film; possibly just an effect of the fast pace never allowing the viewer to take in the audio cues. But if you listen to the score on its own, you'll find it has all the hallmarks of a great Williams film score. Rey's theme is especially great.
I just want to know where "anakins" saber came from that Luke found..., which fell into God knows where when his hand got cut off by Vader in cloud city..... Or am I mistaken?
That's actually Vader's saber, albeit the wrong color, and missing a few trim bits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Zacherof on December 24, 2015, 10:26:46 PM
It's funny you mention that, it didn't occur to me at the time, but looking back, I really don't recall HEARING much...
That's actually Vader's saber, albeit the wrong color, and missing a few trim bits.
Which from my understanding wouldn't be that hard, just a few changes, the biggest being a different crystal as red means synthetic, which was easier to get than the natural ones Ie, blue, green, purple, yellow and black (even no only one dude had black Iirc
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on December 25, 2015, 08:55:49 AM
It was a joke. Who is this 50 foot Sith Lord junk? I thought all storm troopers were grown in some factory, cloned after Bobafet? Some homeless chick suddenly knows the engineering space of the Falcon? yada, yada, yada, yada....the quality of screen writing was sophomoric, the special effects seemed flimsy, holy cow....its not the $30 in tickets I dropped watching it with my wife and daughter but the late night.
Overall, this strikes me much like a bad movie series such as Home Alone 9 or something. Horrible enough no one takes it serious, enough children buy the tickets to make it profitable.
This is like Godfather III, never should have been made; never to be watched again.
boo
Slow your roll bashing Godfather III. The flaw was the director casting his daughter as Michael's daughter. Otherwise a fine film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: WaffenVW on December 26, 2015, 06:06:12 AM
Have you read the book itself or are you just relaying bits from it that you've heard?
Quote
Read the book after I saw the movie.
Quote
Also, if you have read it: how good is the novelization?
It's a tad short, only coming in at 272 pages but for a movie novelization it's not bad and it does go into some more detail about some of the events in the movie. For example, the first time we see Snoke and Ren together is when Snoke reveals what I had posted earlier and it also does a better job of explaining the <cough> science behind the Starkiller base planet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on December 27, 2015, 10:00:52 PM
Ok.
I saw the film again today and one thing about Starkiller Base that bugged me was the literal drawing of energy from a star, especially to the point of completely draining said star after only 2 uses. Also, the shot of the draining should have been placed with the first firing just to establish how the damn thing works.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
Empire strikes back > a new hope > the force awakens > return of the jedi > prequel trash
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: FLOOB on December 28, 2015, 09:06:08 AM
It was better than the last three. I think you guys are taking it too seriously and losing perspective on what star wars was. Star wars was escapism fantasy for preteen boys. Now you're watching it as an adult and your disappointed that you're not getting the same stimulation from it that you did in 1977. And that's a good thing because you're not supposed to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: bustr on December 28, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
Disney = just another princess franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: FLOOB on December 29, 2015, 10:34:16 AM
To me the best part of this film is the production, capturing the retro style and feel. They did a good job making it look like a film that was shot in the early 80s/70s. It looks like the original product. It's very noticeable in the first scenes on the desert planet, which in the original was almost certainly inspired by the Viking 1 photos of the surface of mars in 1976.
Empire strikes back > a new hope > the force awakens > return of the jedi > prequel trash
Agreed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: branch37 on January 01, 2016, 02:56:53 PM
I've always wondered. Why not much love for Return of the Jedi? For me, I cant decide which is my favorite, but it's down to two. Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Devil 505 on January 01, 2016, 03:28:46 PM
It's because RotJ is pretty terrible when it's not outright amazing. The "Special Edition" only made it worse. It's strengths are the battle on Jaba's sail barge, the speeder chase on Endor, the entire space battle sequence, the final Vader/Luke duel before the Emperor, and Vader's return to the Light side of the Force. There are other singular moments I love in that film; Leia's attempt to rescue Han, Chewie hijacking the AT-ST, and Leia reversing the "I love you."-"I know." bit with Han. But beyond these parts, the film is painful to watch at times. I still think that it's mostly good, but by far the lesser film in the Original Trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: 68Raptor on January 01, 2016, 07:28:31 PM
In regards to the fight scene between the new Vader guy and the two kids. It bugged me also that here is this awesome fighter with a tremendous amount of power being beaten by some stormtrooper hack and a young girl. It bugged me so much so that I went and talk to my resident Star Wars walking encyclopedia (daughters boyfriend).
He took the guess that while it did seem odd new bad guy was being beaten, I needed to remember that Chewie's crossbow was capable of causing massive amounts of destruction. So much so that Han Solo remarked on it. Right after Han is killed Chewie shot new bad guy with the same bow and he was barely hurt, he was hurt but not blown up like the objects were or the stormtrooper that took a direct hit that was thrown back several feet from the force of it. Then new bad guy made a show of pounding the injury to block out some of the pain. The blood was shown on the snow as a result, he also kept hitting himself in the same motion at different times. So, my future son in law says that maybe new bad guy was using alot of his powers to hold the pain back and also he may have really tired himself out just by blocking a good bit of the blast in the first place. As he did in the very beginning by stopping the laser shot mid air.
It was something he proposed to help explain that new bad guy was severely injured already, his use of the force was impaired by mental fatigue. His only real strength he had left was the hatred that took him to the dark side anyways.
Other that part I thought the movie was right up there with the originals. Fantastic! [size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on January 01, 2016, 07:38:09 PM
In regards to the fight scene between the new Vader guy and the two kids. It bugged me also that here is this awesome fighter with a tremendous amount of power being beaten by some stormtrooper hack and a young girl. It bugged me so much so that I went and talk to my resident Star Wars walking encyclopedia (daughters boyfriend).
He took the guess that while it did seem odd new bad guy was being beaten, I needed to remember that Chewie's crossbow was capable of causing massive amounts of destruction. So much so that Han Solo remarked on it. Right after Han is killed Chewie shot new bad guy with the same bow and he was barely hurt, he was hurt but not blown up like the objects were or the stormtrooper that took a direct hit that was thrown back several feet from the force of it. Then new bad guy made a show of pounding the injury to block out some of the pain. The blood was shown on the snow as a result, he also kept hitting himself in the same motion at different times. So, my future son in law says that maybe new bad guy was using alot of his powers to hold the pain back and also he may have really tired himself out just by blocking a good bit of the blast in the first place. As he did in the very beginning by stopping the laser shot mid air.
It was something he proposed to help explain that new bad guy was severely injured already, his use of the force was impaired by mental fatigue. His only real strength he had left was the hatred that took him to the dark side anyways.
Other that part I thought the movie was right up there with the originals. Fantastic! [size=78%] [/size]
The other things to keep in mind are they made it clear that Stormtroopers have excellent hand-to-hand combat skills, as evidenced by the baton trooper who fights Finn. Other media confirms that Finn also received the same riot training, so he DOES know how to handle himself in hand-to-hand combat. Rey was also established right in the beginning of the film to be skilled in melee combat. So again, even if it was her first time using a lightsaber, she nonetheless had prior background experience that could apply.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 01, 2016, 09:51:09 PM
The other things to keep in mind are they made it clear that Stormtroopers have excellent hand-to-hand combat skills, as evidenced by the baton trooper who fights Finn. Other media confirms that Finn also received the same riot training, so he DOES know how to handle himself in hand-to-hand combat. Rey was also established right in the beginning of the film to be skilled in melee combat. So again, even if it was her first time using a lightsaber, she nonetheless had prior background experience that could apply.
In one of the new books that are made up of short stories about Rey, Finn and Poe, it describes Finn as being in the top 1% of the stormtroopers and the leader of his fire team, and was being groomed to be an officer until testing showed he had too much empathy towards his fire teammates.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: quig on January 02, 2016, 08:10:26 AM
Wow.
Geeks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: rogwar on January 02, 2016, 01:41:53 PM
Watched the first six over the holidays to get my daughter caught up. Went to see it with her a couple of days ago and we had a great time. For us, that's what is most important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Muzzy on January 03, 2016, 01:03:15 AM
Watched the first six over the holidays to get my daughter caught up. Went to see it with her a couple of days ago and we had a great time. For us, that's what is most important.
+1 My nephew liked it. I liked it. My wife liked it. My sister who is about as far from geeky as you can get liked it. We had fun and it gave us something to talk about over the holidays.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: grizz441 on January 06, 2016, 09:29:34 PM
I've always wondered. Why not much love for Return of the Jedi? For me, I cant decide which is my favorite, but it's down to two. Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi.
Because of the Endor Care Bears man.
At least we can safely assume the Death Star debris almost certainly fell to their planet and caused the ecosystem to collapse, blocking light and destroying most of their food sources. They likely starved to death and were forced to eat their young before dying without honor.
Oh yeah, and boba fett dying like a noob.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Randy1 on January 07, 2016, 06:01:00 AM
Went to see it last night. It was good but not not great. The solo end moment was so poorly handled. If they had saved the moment that solo found out it was his son to that very moment it would have been one of the most spectacular scenes in movie history.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Zacherof on January 07, 2016, 08:20:30 AM
Went to see it last night. It was good but not not great. The solo end moment was so poorly handled. If they had saved the moment that solo found out it was his son to that very moment it would have been one of the most spectacular scenes in movie history.
That's what I was thinking. Basically a bigger Luke I am your father
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: FLOOB on January 07, 2016, 09:08:43 AM
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Maverick on January 08, 2016, 11:49:36 AM
Finally saw it yesterday. Kids are back in school so we didn't have t sit in a theater full of pre adolescents and other attention wasters. I enjoyed the film simply because I went there without any intention of analyzing it or comparing it. I just went to spend a bit of time in a film, period. Yes there were disappointments, yeah I see the Disney meddling and lack of inspired writing but again I went to see an entertainment flick and nothing else. Perhaps it's because I am older (more than 3 score years) and followed the franchise from the beginning but I no longer go to ANY movie (if I go to a theater at all) with the idea that I will be astounded. If the film was entertaining, then my money was well spent. If not, I will simply walk out before wasting all of my time. I had no problem staying until the credits played on this one. Will I pay to see it again? Nope, but that goes for almost all of the stuff released.
Quite frankly I think red box is great and see almost all of the hollywierd stuff in the comfort of my recliner at far less than theater pricing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: mbailey on January 10, 2016, 03:05:57 PM
Just saw it today, liked it very much. As much for the story and effects as the nostalgia (the original Star Wars was the only one I've seen in the theater...when I was 7. Me and my boy saw it today :aok
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Molsman on January 15, 2016, 04:03:39 AM
I have seen al the movies and this was the first one I saw in 3D Ent care who made it Disney r Lucas I enjoyed every moment even When Harrison Ford got his wish finally. Ya know Skywalker was missing but the only gripe I have is wish he had more screen time with little hints. Now I have to wait til the next movie
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on January 15, 2016, 04:55:22 AM
Serenity is basically correct in his analysis, imj.
I'd add, though, that the lack of tension made it an undemanding watch, and one I enjoyed.
Additional thoughts: Rey is, per geek speak, very clearly a "Mary Sue". What is it about the Essex girls that always makes them sound half Australian? One of our Purchasing Managers that I've worked with in past similarly fooled me (usually I can pick out the accents reliably) and was also from Essex. Part of it was the obvious sun damage on Rey that put me to the Aus side of the fence - but she's actually from Essex, and I'd give her an 8. She obviously works out, so the lecherous Jabba scene should be good and I look forward to filing it to the mental microfiche (perv).
The gulled stormtrooper is none other than Daniel Craig, who did the role for laughs, apparently. You can verify yourself...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on January 15, 2016, 06:43:15 AM
I must be a novice in the sci-fi world. Do you really think that assertion would trigger a flame war? Don't get me wrong, I like Rey. (http://www.allmystery.de/i/t9a5581_emperor-meme-generator-good-good-i-can-f.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Saxman on January 15, 2016, 11:35:54 AM
I must be a novice in the sci-fi world. Do you really think that assertion would trigger a flame war? Don't get me wrong, I like Rey. (http://www.allmystery.de/i/t9a5581_emperor-meme-generator-good-good-i-can-f.jpg)
To say the arguments that statement has triggered are "heated" would be an understatement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Volron on January 23, 2016, 04:18:30 PM
Just saw it today, IMAX 3D. I enjoyed it. A little "watered down", but still solid. It kind of feels like 4, 5 and 6 crammed into one movie. I can say this without a doubt, they did FAR better than how Ep 1, 2 and 3 were done, combined. This much is certain though, I'm very much waiting for 8 now. I have an inkling that they will take more "risks" in Ep8. Either way, we have to wait for 8 and 9 to know if Disney did well. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 24, 2016, 10:00:05 AM
Just saw it today, IMAX 3D. I enjoyed it. A little "watered down", but still solid. It kind of feels like 4, 5 and 6 crammed into one movie. I can say this without a doubt, they did FAR better than how Ep 1, 2 and 3 were done, combined. This much is certain though, I'm very much waiting for 8 now. I have an inkling that they will take more "risks" in Ep8. Either way, we have to wait for 8 and 9 to know if Disney did well. :)
Yeah I agree with you there. I saw it the other day and thought it really reminded me of the older versions. I was not expecting that. I did think there were some cheezy parts; like how they just found Phasma and took her hostage, or some of the escape scenes, her getting the force easily, the 1v1 fight scenes, the child like cliches. I didn't really think there was a lot of depth in the story line and I think it could have got much deeper. It seemed sorta stucked together for me.
My GF and I think 8 will be the back story and/or flashbacks of this plot. There were too many unanswered questions about the past. IMO, they skipped a whole generation and plot line. I am excited about 8 and they have the opportunity to really expand on the characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: BoilerDown on January 25, 2016, 02:07:06 PM
I actually thought the story from 1, 2, and 3 far exceeded what we got from Episode 7. There were parallels to 4 in Episode 1, sure, but it wasn't in the same order of magnitude of a ripoff that Episode 7 turned out to be.
The acting, directing and casting were obviously horrendous in 1, 2 and 3, and set a low bar easily exceeded in 7. So grats on that. But I don't give that a lot of credit.
It was still entertaining, but even while watching it, it had that nasty Episode 1 - type feeling creeping up on me, that they've continued to ruin Star Wars, and it may have been better for them to do nothing than to make this movie. If anything they should have done it immediately after Episode 3 was done so that Harrison Ford might still be young enough to move like an action hero.
Expanding on that a bit... compare Harrison Ford's performance with William Shatners in Star Trek: Generations. Shatner didn't look horrible in his fight scenes in that movie, far better than Harrison Ford in SW7. They made ST:G before he was too old to do it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Muzzy on January 27, 2016, 07:53:12 AM
I actually thought the story from 1, 2, and 3 far exceeded what we got from Episode 7. There were parallels to 4 in Episode 1, sure, but it wasn't in the same order of magnitude of a ripoff that Episode 7 turned out to be.
The acting, directing and casting were obviously horrendous in 1, 2 and 3, and set a low bar easily exceeded in 7. So grats on that. But I don't give that a lot of credit.
It was still entertaining, but even while watching it, it had that nasty Episode 1 - type feeling creeping up on me, that they've continued to ruin Star Wars, and it may have been better for them to do nothing than to make this movie. If anything they should have done it immediately after Episode 3 was done so that Harrison Ford might still be young enough to move like an action hero.
Expanding on that a bit... compare Harrison Ford's performance with William Shatners in Star Trek: Generations. Shatner didn't look horrible in his fight scenes in that movie, far better than Harrison Ford in SW7. They made ST:G before he was too old to do it.
Shatner was considerably younger than Ford when he did "Generations". Also, I'd say that Ford's performance was much more interesting and nuanced, but of course he had better material to work with. I particularly loved the moment when he says "it's all true...all of it", showing how much his character had changed over the years, and how much his life had been affected by the Force. His scenes with Leia were also really good (although Fischer didn't hold up her end of the scenes quite as well). Respectfully, there's more to acting than simply fight scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Serenity on January 27, 2016, 10:30:14 AM
Shatner was considerably younger than Ford when he did "Generations". Also, I'd say that Ford's performance was much more interesting and nuanced, but of course he had better material to work with. I particularly loved the moment when he says "it's all true...all of it", showing how much his character had changed over the years, and how much his life had been affected by the Force. His scenes with Leia were also really good (although Fischer didn't hold up her end of the scenes quite as well). Respectfully, there's more to acting than simply fight scenes.
I couldn't agree more. The scenes with Han and Leia were... well, THOSE felt like Star Wars, and I really enjoyed them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)
Post by: FLOOB on January 28, 2016, 09:17:51 AM
Star Wars.. Harry Potter.. Lord of The Rings.. What is it about children's movies that gets nerds all worked up? Jawing on about it until they break a retainer. It's time for Red Foreman to put this nerdfest down.