Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on December 20, 2015, 01:03:22 PM
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Anyone have a photo of this airplane? I am working on this skin now. Not sure if Skuzzy accepts skins that don't have photographic support to back up their schemes.
http://www.aviationarthangar.com/avarthasacho.html
http://www.bravobravoaviation.com/shop/1053-tm_thickbox_default/p-51b-mustang-virgal-sandy-sansing-359th-fg-369th-fs-usaaf-june-1944.jpg
This guy had an interesting experience during the war and I have been wanting to do a green-nosed Mustang for a long time.
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Cant find any photos of that plane but I do have one from that unit slightly more interesting in appearance from that group.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P51%20Mustang/368th_zpsacgn4jdo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P51%20Mustang/368th_zpsacgn4jdo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P51%20Mustang/9-075705b6c2_zpsxxbrlruz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P51%20Mustang/9-075705b6c2_zpsxxbrlruz.jpg.html)
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Thank you kindly. Interesting indeed.
I will get the common elements finished then decide what to do with the final product. Another yellow tail. I can't seem to escape that. Hahahaha!
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Cant find any photos of that plane but I do have one from that unit slightly more interesting in appearance from that group.
Question: What shade of black / white are the Invasion Stripes? The default "B" makes them look almost brown.
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It's really just black and white however the maintenance crews could get it. The white was probably "Insignia White" but I'm sure the black was just called "Black"
The important thing is to fade each shade at least 10% with it's opposite shade and to ensure that the pint is given a flat finish.
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Question: What shade of black / white are the Invasion Stripes? The default "B" makes them look almost brown.
I am no help to you on this. Devil seems to have covered it. :aok
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No problem guys. Thank you both.
Here's what I have so far...
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Your stripes on the wings are way too thin. The outboard white stripe should be just inboard of the aileron, and the width of each stripe widened accordingly. Look at the reference photo, the gear door is black on the top and white on the bottom, not white-black-white as you have it.
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Your stripes on the wings are way too thin. The outboard white stripe should be just inboard of the aileron, and the width of each stripe widened accordingly. Look at the reference photo, the gear door is black on the top and white on the bottom, not white-black-white as you have it.
Good catch. (I haven't tried to match the bottom yet because I want to get the top right first.) I actually just used the default's measurements on the stripes. Didn't even think to look at the picture. *facepalm*
Okay, off to correct. Damn, your eye is good. :aok
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Good catch. (I haven't tried to match the bottom yet because I want to get the top right first.) I actually just used the default's measurements on the stripes. Didn't even think to look at the picture. *facepalm*
Okay, off to correct. Damn, your eye is good. :aok
:aok
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:aok
Your help is greatly appreciated, sir.
Devil, here's an update. Better?
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Much better with the stripes.
Check this out: http://www.cebudanderson.com/p51bdetailpage.htm
Here's a picture of the real "Old Crow" that the default represents. You'll notice how far out the D-Day stripes come out on the wings compared to the incorrect skin from AH. Always try to completely research the planes you are skinning so that you better understand the conventions of their schemes, ensuring that your skins are as historically accurate as possible.
I did notice something another flaw though. You have some OD green on the upper rear fuselage that should no be there. The entire fuselage aft of the cockpit should be bare metal. I'm not sure if you know this and just haven't corrected it yet, or didn't realize this flay was present.
Overall, this is shaping up nicely.
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Much better with the stripes.
Check this out: http://www.cebudanderson.com/p51bdetailpage.htm
Here's a picture of the real "Old Crow" that the default represents. You'll notice how far out the D-Day stripes come out on the wings compared to the incorrect skin from AH. Always try to completely research the planes you are skinning so that you better understand the conventions of their schemes, ensuring that your skins are as historically accurate as possible.
I did notice something another flaw though. You have some OD green on the upper rear fuselage that should no be there. The entire fuselage aft of the cockpit should be bare metal. I'm not sure if you know this and just haven't corrected it yet, or didn't realize this flay was present.
Good eye by you. I haven't painted that part yet. I know the "D" skin like the back of my hand. Still learning where everything is on this one. I will get on that right now. Thanks a lot, Devil. <S>
Overall, this is shaping up nicely.
Coming from you that's very high praise. My thanks.
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Lots to do yet, but this is a rough sketch.
Panel lines need work. Also have to fill the stripes out. But it is coming along. I am trying something new for the metal finish. I think it is an improvement over my previous attempts...
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Good so far, but I agree the metal work needs some work.
You should add some subtle variation to the base colors of the sheet metal. My Ki-84 has 5 different basic panel colors. I started with a base middle color and then made 2 layers each with a lighter and darker shade. These layers are faded to make 5 shades. You should bake in some reflected color (sky blue on the top and olive green on the bottom). Also, you should add some highlights and shading to these panels to add some dimension. Don't forget to give your panel lines and rivets some highlights.
Here is a shot of my Ki-84 to show all the baked in effects.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Metal%20Frank_zpsq9t4jnat.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Metal%20Frank_zpsq9t4jnat.png.html)
Good luck.
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Good stuff there. I will give this a shot after Christmas. I am sure to have questions. :salute
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Should I paint the pylons the same color as the wing stripe or leave it metal/silver?
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Paint the pylons. They were fixed to the wings.
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Paint the pylons. They were fixed to the wings.
Wow that was tough to find. Got them though. The default map has everything gray. Had to hunt around for them with a layer...
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Sounds like you need the panelfinder tool. http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=12
Use this as your bitmap to find those hard to find parts.
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Sounds like you need the panelfinder tool. http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=12
Use this as your bitmap to find those hard to find parts.
I will try that. Thank you. :salute
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The latest (without bump effects).
I think this could wind up being my best effort so far. Not happy with how the game shows some things, but I am working around them as best I can.
Screen shots not the best.... The angles on this airplane that are dictated by the game are making me crazy. Polygon. When you add noise to smooth them out it looks cartoonish...
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It's coming along fine. I agree that it's your best so far.
My major issue is that the plane still looks like its painted gray and not unpainted metal. First you need to bake in a faint highlight to your panel lines and rivets. This should be consistent over painted and non-painted surfaces alike. Next, add those baked in metal effects I mentioned before. That should make the bare metal metal pop. Also, the wings on the pony were painted silver so leave the wings alone with the metal effects. It's worth mentioning that the panel lines on the wings were also puttied and sanded smooth before painting - I would NOT try to do this on a skin because the wing will lack all texture and appear more fake in spite of being more accurate. The flaps and ailerons are not painted, and the gun bay hatches not puttied. Here's a pic from the 332nd showing the top of the wing:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/P51-arming_zpswauqehgu.jpg~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/P51-arming_zpswauqehgu.jpg.html)
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That's a good picture.
It looks more metallic with the spec map enabled but I will give it another crack. I basically have everything lined up and the default stuff eliminated. So now the tweaking begins.
What noise level would you use for the invasion stripes?
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The noise should be just apparent enough to replicate the level of weathering you're going for. Hard to give you an opacity level for what I usually do as I have 3 different layers of noise type weathering on my skins, each set between 1-3%. So I guess between 4-9% for a single noise layer would do for you. Be careful, noise layers can make the 3D model seams very apparent and kill the realism the noise is meant to achieve.
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I think I added noise directly to the stripes instead of as a layer over them. I tried the noise layer on my previous releases as you and Greebo suggested but I don't know that I did it right.
Other than the ease of changing the effect does it have an advantage?
I obviously have a ways to go. Sorry to always be asking questions. Hope you guys don't get sick of me.
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Looking at that aileron gap makes me wish I could clone your Ki-84. It is tough to get the gap lines to square up. I am not sure I can ever bump them properly.
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Looking at that aileron gap makes me wish I could clone your Ki-84. It is tough to get the gap lines to square up. I am not sure I can ever bump them properly.
Don't use the Frank as a model of perfection in the case of the Pony. The Ki-84 model actually separates the aileron from the rest of the wing. There is a physical step at the joint. The P-40's is the same way. You would do better to examine the 190s and 109s that I have done, as the graphic model is rendered as a single piece with the ailerons in the neutral position.
I think I added noise directly to the stripes instead of as a layer over them. I tried the noise layer on my previous releases as you and Greebo suggested but I don't know that I did it right.
Other than the ease of changing the effect does it have an advantage?
Having a noise layer or layers helps to blend all of your base elements together. Remember, the real plane was entirely exposed to the elements, not just the painted parts.
Also, it is worth noting the position in the layer stack that you place the noise is important as well. I place mine directly above the layers that represent anything painted, this included markings, artwork, and kill boards. All weathering layers are above the noise layer.
I obviously have a ways to go. Sorry to always be asking questions. Hope you guys don't get sick of me.
Ask away. We all benefit from having the best skins possible. Nobody benefits from hording tips and techniques. Hell, I'm sure even Greebo asked a ton of questions when he began skinning.
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Thanks.
I appreciate the help.
Let me ask though, why not add noise directly to the layer itself? Does doing the noise as its own layer change how the noise is seen in the final bmp?
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If you add the noise to the paint layer itself then it becomes permanent. Having the layer separate allows you to fine tune the effect and to reuse the layer on another plane with a different level. Remember I said before how I have 3 noise layers? Lets say that I have two skins, one is a fairly clean plane and the other is a war-weary plane from North Africa. Like these 190A-5's:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Jg26%20190%202_zpsf3sylenu.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg26%20190%202_zpsf3sylenu.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Skg10%20190%202_zps9bx2r5rx.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Skg10%20190%202_zps9bx2r5rx.png.html)
See how much more worn the paint looks in the second picture? It's subtle, but noticeably more gritty. That is the result of a 1% change in two of the layers.
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Gotcha.
Very nice. Very.
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Ask away. We all benefit from having the best skins possible. Nobody benefits from hording tips and techniques. Hell, I'm sure even Greebo asked a ton of questions when he began skinning.
You are both legendary. There are others worthy of tremendous praise that I cannot conjure (oh, I got Saxman).
:aok
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Thank you. :salute
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I have lost control of my bump map...
The P-51B bump map I am using has the same colors as the D I have used before...but it looks like someone caved in every rivet with their foot. What in the heck?????????
I copied the power files over.....I think any way....... Am I missing something? :bhead
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Be sure that the reference file named in the text file matches the 51B and not the D. Also double check the actual numbers in the text file.
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Be sure that the reference file named in the text file matches the 51B and not the D. Also double check the actual numbers in the text file.
Can you verify for me the file names that are relevant, please?
Everything that is supposed to say p51b says that. Bumpmat.txt is in there as well... Same values as the D folder. Anything else?
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Can you verify for me the file names that are relevant, please?
I don't think that they are, but I don't want to leave anything to chance.
Everything that is supposed to say p51b says that. Bumpmat.txt is in there as well... Same values as the D folder. Anything else?
Now the real troubleshooting begins. Take a copy of the p51D bumpmap that you know works correctly on the 51D, rename it to work on the 51B and place it in the folder. If the bump effect on the B matches the its appearance on the D then you know the problem is in your first 51B bumpmap. If there is no change seen on the B, and it still looks messed up, then the settings are the problem.
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I don't think that they are, but I don't want to leave anything to chance.
Now the real troubleshooting begins. Take a copy of the p51D bumpmap that you know works correctly on the 51D, rename it to work on the 51B and place it in the folder. If the bump effect on the B matches the its appearance on the D then you know the problem is in your first 51B bumpmap. If there is no change seen on the B, and it still looks messed up, then the settings are the problem.
I will check.
What I meant in my previous post by names is can you tell me what files control bumping other than the _B file? Bumpmat. Materials? I wonder if I missed something.
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check the text file ending in "_B_d" That file contains all the setting for the bump map to follow. Should read something to the effect of:
#texture name, Bump width, Bump height, U scale, V scale
# bump width and bump height are optional but must be present
# if U scale and V scale are used. U and V scale are also optional
KI841_B,40.000000,0.075000
The red is the reference file I mentioned earlier. Yours should be P51B_B there.
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check the text file ending in "_B_d" That file contains all the setting for the bump map to follow. Should read something to the effect of:
The red is the reference file I mentioned earlier. Yours should be P51B_B there.
Got it. Thank you. :aok
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My jaw still drops looking at those 190s. The gaps in the control surfaces, the fabric on the rudder. Good grief.
So the Mustang skins can be made to look like that???? Wow.
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You can achieve that effect too. For the hinge gap you need a 5-6 pixel wide gradient from black to transparent which is faded to be the shadow in the crease. I place the darkest line of the gradient right over the panel line to give it a little extra sharpness. The hardest part on the gradient is matching the slant of the line if it's not perfectly aligned N/S or E/W on the bitmap. This gradient layer should be pasted directly on to your bumpmap to see it shaded in 3D. Presto!
The rib detail is more tedious as the there are no parts that transfer from the color bitmap to the bumpmap. I shade all the fabric control surfaces a dark gray and erase where the ribs go. this gives the illusion of the fabric sinking into the gaps between the ribs. You want to use a soft eraser, but not too soft. have a 1 pixel blur transition from full gray to fully erased.
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You can achieve that effect too. For the hinge gap you need a 5-6 pixel wide gradient from black to transparent which is faded to be the shadow in the crease. I place the darkest line of the gradient right over the panel line to give it a little extra sharpness. The hardest part on the gradient is matching the slant of the line if it's not perfectly aligned N/S or E/W on the bitmap. This gradient layer should be pasted directly on to your bumpmap to see it shaded in 3D. Presto!
The rib detail is more tedious as the there are no parts that transfer from the color bitmap to the bumpmap. I shade all the fabric control surfaces a dark gray and erase where the ribs go. this gives the illusion of the fabric sinking into the gaps between the ribs. You want to use a soft eraser, but not too soft. have a 1 pixel blur transition from full gray to fully erased.
Yeah that's an issue on the Pony. Definitely not NSEW. :bhead
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I've only ever seen rudders and some elevators aligned that way.
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I've only ever seen rudders and some elevators aligned that way.
I guess I can just copy the lines I have and paste them one pixel shift. This is gonna be tough. Maybe I will practice on the rudder first.
I assume the 190 aileron is not NSEW.
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I guess I can just copy the lines I have and paste them one pixel shift. This is gonna be tough. Maybe I will practice on the rudder first.
I assume the 190 aileron is not NSEW.
You assume correctly about the 190.
You don't need to shift the panel lines. You just need the free select tool and trace a rectangle with one long edge over the panel line that separates the aileron from the wing. Then fill the rectangle with a gradient, and reduce the opacity.
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You assume correctly about the 190.
You don't need to shift the panel lines. You just need the free select tool and trace a rectangle with one long edge over the panel line that separates the aileron from the wing. Then fill the rectangle with a gradient, and reduce the opacity.
I will try it. Still using Paintshop Pro 5. I am stuck in the 90s. Hahaha.
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check the text file ending in "_B_d" That file contains all the setting for the bump map to follow. Should read something to the effect of:
The red is the reference file I mentioned earlier. Yours should be P51B_B there.
This was the problem. Fixed now. :aok