General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Wraith_TMS on January 04, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
Title: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on January 04, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
Oculus Rift consumer version (CV1) preorders open on at 8:a.m. PST on 1/6/16 (price apparently not advertised until preorders open), and coincides with the CES 2016 tech show. Sources: https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/oculus-rift-pre-orders-to-open-on-jan-6/ (https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/oculus-rift-pre-orders-to-open-on-jan-6/) and https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey (https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey)
Discuss on Reddit/r/oculus, which appears to be melting from aggregate anticipation: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/)
(PS: originally posted in Wishlist forum in error (wink wink, nudge nudge)).
FWIW,
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: zack1234 on January 06, 2016, 01:50:38 AM
Price?
When it's £200 I will get VR.
I can afford it if it's £500 but I given greedy people enough of my coin.
Pipz has a CRT TV by the way, he is keeping it real :rock
He has a new iced tea maker :rofl
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: terrydew on January 06, 2016, 10:59:11 AM
Price in US is $630 including shipping which starts 3/28. Higher than expected but still cheap when you consider that you get what amounts to a 360 deg dome display which would be 5 or 6 figures.
Terry
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on January 06, 2016, 04:19:01 PM
Price in US is $630 including shipping which starts 3/28. Higher than expected but still cheap when you consider that you get what amounts to a 360 deg dome display which would be 5 or 6 figures.
Terry
I think in absolute terms, you're spot on, Terry---in fact, you may actually be understating its true value.
Think of it this way: the consumer Rift has dual hi-rez OLED screens: >1080p resolution/per eye with built-in 3D capability (no special glasses need), built-in 6 DOF head tracking (like TrackIR but built in), which means it's literally like having a seamless sphere of monitors around you that immerse you in whatever game you're in, so not just a dome (and it's done without screen bevels). It has a built-in high-quality DAC/sound system & removable headphones for spacial positioned, head-relative audio (if something makes a sound behind you, it will sound like its behind you, not just stereo).
So, how many 3D capable 22"-24" (or larger) OLED monitors would it take to create a sphere around a person, at say $225-$250/screen? How many decent video cards would be needed to connect up a sphere of screens to a computer (not to mention cables). Add the cost of a TrackIR unit, a decent pair of headphones, a DAC, 3D shutter glasses (which the Rift doesn't need) to get 3D on all those monitors, and then the price of bundled games that will come included in the price of the Rift. If someone were going to build a simpit with all that, yeah, it would be an unholy cost. But a Rift allows you to get all that for the price of a cheap 3-monitor set-up. It's probably a fair assessment to call it a bargain, even at $599.
But most folks think of the price in relative terms and it seems steep because Oculus didn't manage people's expectations enough. The dev kits were sold very cheaply (probably below cost) and there was a general expectation in the VR community that it would be a sub $500 (USD) price point. The balking comes in because folk weren't adequately prepared by Oculus for that higher price. It's basically sticker shock. Most people working hard to make a living or who have to justify a big cost to themselves, their wives or parents, will see that price and groan and despair at that expense.
It's a matter of perspective I suppose, and I'm trying to be objective here, because I'm one of those who is groaning right now.
FWIW,
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 06, 2016, 10:19:33 PM
More like bundle shock. Most Rifters do not want all the frills (Xbox controller, game, remote).
I expect Oculus wanted to release a bundle that would give an immediate out of the box experience for retail customers.
I'll wait til the bare CV1 goes on sale.
In the meantime they've sold all their March and April stock out.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: zack1234 on January 07, 2016, 01:41:32 AM
It beats buying a load of monitors.
The price for VR will come down and we will have lots of threads like we do for joysticks.
I have had Track it for 4 years now :rofl
Monitors and headphones are the most problematic part of PCs.
At least AH forums have real people to solve issues
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: fracca on January 07, 2016, 01:07:09 PM
Used the DK2 in Aces High for a while, was good but my neck quickly started hurting in dogfights from looking up and behind all the time. Even just normal flight, it quickly becomes tiring having to physically turn in your seat constantly to check behind. Maybe should have invested in a silk scarf lol. Another thing worth mentioning is when you perform rapid violent manouvers, your body reacts to them instinctively. Perform a loop, and you will feel your dinner heading for your throat. A flat spin becomes a horrific experience that is truly sensory overload and leaves you dizzy, pale and sick. In this respect, the VR pilot is (I believe) always going to be at a disadvantage to his screen flying enemy. You just cant fly as hard as you used to, because your stomach wont let you.
In bombers however it was pretty incredible, the larger spaces in nose and cockpit, and the ability to easily look around in turrets without rotating it. Looking around blindspots in cockpits bomber and fighter was also pretty handy. The sense of size and scale is much bigger in the Rift, and the boeings really drive this home. They really are huge.
Never tried it on GVs, but i imagine it will be same as in turrets, a much greater degree of SA. Keep meaning to fire it up and jump in a tank but keep forgetting.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Bizman on January 07, 2016, 01:23:27 PM
--- the VR pilot is (I believe) always going to be at a disadvantage to his screen flying enemy. You just cant fly as hard as you used to, because your stomach wont let you.---
I fear more that there won't be as good a variety of snacks and beverages available in the cockpit. Also the two hour rule we had as kids after a meal before allowed to go swimming might come into force again.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on January 07, 2016, 03:03:22 PM
I remembered reading a short quote a long time back from someone at Oculus, in effect stating that the goal of VR is to immerse someone to an extent that, if a real life situation would normally make a person nauseous, then the VR experience should recreate it to _that_ degree. So, if a roller coaster ride makes you want to vomit in real life, a VR coaster simulation should recreate the experience to the point of making you that queasy too. What's not acceptable is if the tech itself induces the queasiness; but a well-made simulation could--assuming that's what you're into.
IMO, VR may not be for everyone and sim sickness can be adjusted to over time. But let's face it, if one aspires to fly high performance airplanes to their limits as in real life, one had better thicken their stomach linings. A good VR simulation of such experiences _should_ be that immersive or it's a poor VR simulation ( :) I hope I don't live to regret this opinion :O.). I think it speaks to AH's fidelity to real life ACM and g-effects that an AH VR pilot might feel it "in the gut" too. In fact, such feelings might be better feedback than the buffet, blackout/redout indicators and stall horns we're currently provided by the game.
BTW, the consumer rift is said to be significantly lighter--likened to the weight of a baseball cap since it's mostly fabric--than the DK versions, such that whipping heads around to follow targets shouldn't be a problem even after hours of play.
FWIW,
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wiley on January 07, 2016, 03:28:20 PM
Used the DK2 in Aces High for a while, was good but my neck quickly started hurting in dogfights from looking up and behind all the time. Even just normal flight, it quickly becomes tiring having to physically turn in your seat constantly to check behind.
Google has failed me, so I'll ask here. I had assumed it was so but is Rift's head tracking scalable like TrackIR? I had assumed so but if it's locked 1:1, that kind of kills my interest quite a bit.
Wiley.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on January 07, 2016, 04:55:05 PM
Google has failed me, so I'll ask here. I had assumed it was so but is Rift's head tracking scalable like TrackIR? I had assumed so but if it's locked 1:1, that kind of kills my interest quite a bit.
Wiley.
If I understand your question correctly, Wiley, the answer is no.
Scaling your movements with TrackIR is needed to represent/fit head movements beyond the FOV of your monitor to fit said monitor, which is of course stationary in front of you. That isn't needed with the Rift, because the headset will display the game world as if you were in it. For example, turn your head 90 degrees right, and you will see what's in the game world at your 3 o'clock. No scaling needed; it's 1:1. It is, however, very precise, because the consumer Rift has tracking LED's on the straps even around the back of the head. Here is a Youtube video of someone flying a P38 in FSX, to show how it might work/look in AH:
If I understand your question correctly, Wiley, the answer is no.
Scaling your movements with TrackIR is needed to represent/fit head movements beyond the FOV of your monitor to fit said monitor, which is of course stationary in front of you. That isn't needed with the Rift, because the headset will display the game world as if you were in it. For example, turn your head 90 degrees right, and you will see what's in the game world at your 3 o'clock. No scaling needed; it's 1:1. It is, however, very precise, because the consumer Rift has tracking LED's on the straps even around the back of the head. Here is a Youtube video of someone flying a P38 in FSX, to show how it might work/look in AH:
Ah. I'd imagine someone'll come up with some middleware along the way. In the meantime it's $600 I get to save I guess. I don't want to jump around in my chair to check six.
Wiley.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: fracca on January 07, 2016, 05:03:35 PM
In fact, such feelings might be better feedback than the buffet, blackout/redout indicators and stall horns we're currently provided by the game.
BTW, the consumer rift is said to be significantly lighter--likened to the weight of a baseball cap since it's mostly fabric--than the DK versions, such that whipping heads around to follow targets shouldn't be a problem even after hours of play.
As far as sensory feedback goesI will explain as best as I poorly can lol. Flying in formation is easy. Not because u can look toward wingman more easy, but because everything in game is HUGE compared to when you are looking on a screen. On a moniter screen it looks as if youre bobbing up and down and moving all over the place, because you can see so many visual references around, both in-game and out, in the rift these movements arent even noticeable. Aircraft seem much bigger, heavier, and slower, and everything happens much slower because of it. Whereas on-screen you were having to concntrate to maintain formation, in the rift it is one handed effortlessness. You dont even have to pay attention other than an occasional glance. Distance becomes a much more tangible thing, like when u look at your wingman next to you, you can no longer focus on the horizon behind him at same time the way you could on a screen. You have to refocus your eyes past him, and now hes a blur. Same way as looking inside your cockpit requires you to refocus your eyes. This is very noticibly different from on a screen where your eyes remain constant focus, and therefore you have many more visual references at once.
Its exactly this requirement to 'look and focus' on a reference that makes being in a spin so awful, (similarly to real life i would imagine). Every manouvre you make, you really need a reference point to hold onto throughout, something that's not really required with on-screen flying. This apply's to FSX and DCS as well. The huey in DCS is one of my favorite VR activities, but if you lose your visual references, especially on takeoff, you feel like you're in an elevator and the cable just snapped. Same as rolling scissors in AH made me feel when I lost the horizon, or FSX when you drop down into zero visabilty thunderclouds and start getting bounced around.
As far as weight, definetly a good thing to get lighter. DK2 feels pretty light when you first put it on, but after 2-3 hours in Elite you really start to notice it. Worst however is the thick pad around which gets really warm and makes your eye area sweat. (But nowhere else on your face bizzarely).
Google has failed me, so I'll ask here. I had assumed it was so but is Rift's head tracking scalable like TrackIR? I had assumed so but if it's locked 1:1, that kind of kills my interest quite a bit.
Wiley.
While I have never seen it, I can almost say with certainty that it will be scalable without too much difficulty. However I've never seen or heard of it being done, and i cant help wonder how your body/mind connection would react to that. 'Sim-sickness' as wiley put it is worst when your body and brain are fighting for 'who is correct'. Soon as you put rift on, EVERYTHING becomes real in front of you, you spend a couple of hours just trying to reach out and grab things. The ease in which control of your eyes and ears dominates your brain is astounding. The sickness occurs when for a split second, your eyes and ears lose 'control' of your reality, and things like your inner ear manage to start an argument. Your eyes and ears are telling your brain that you are upside down in a la7, (and you were believing it) but your inner ear suddenly said 'nah youre sitting in an office chair immobile bud', and you feel like you just fell off a cliff. Very similair to being falling down drunk I found. Anyway, point is, the more realistic the 'feeling' simulation, the less chance of giving inner ear time to argue, (Elite I believe is still considered the greatest success at this, people have played 12 hour sessions in the rift no problem), any sense of 'not real' is punished with game ending nausea. So, to answer the question, yes its doable almost for certain, but a 'simple' change like that could really blow your mind, and not in a good way.
The whole thing has some very unique problems and advantages that are still not fully understood.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wiley on January 07, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
Quote
While I have never seen it, I can almost say with certainty that it will be scalable without too much difficulty. However I've never seen or heard of it being done, and i cant help wonder how your body/mind connection would react to that. 'Sim-sickness' as wiley put it is worst when your body and brain are fighting for 'who is correct'. Soon as you put rift on, EVERYTHING becomes real in front of you, you spend a couple of hours just trying to reach out and grab things. The ease in which control of your eyes and ears dominates your brain is astounding. The sickness occurs when for a split second, your eyes and ears lose 'control' of your reality, and things like your inner ear manage to start an argument. Your eyes and ears are telling your brain that you are upside down in a la7, (and you were believing it) but your inner ear suddenly said 'nah youre sitting in an office chair immobile bud', and you feel like you just fell off a cliff. Very similair to being falling down drunk I found. Anyway, point is, the more realistic the 'feeling' simulation, the less chance of giving inner ear time to argue, (Elite I believe is still considered the greatest success at this, people have played 12 hour sessions in the rift no problem), any sense of 'not real' is punished with game ending nausea. So, to answer the question, yes its doable almost for certain, but a 'simple' change like that could really blow your mind, and not in a good way.
The whole thing has some very unique problems and advantages that are still not fully understood.
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Maybe I'll revamp my setup to accommodate it if I ever decide to get one. Just the way my setup is, my upper body's more or less immobilized and you don't seem to get peripheral vision like you do IRL so you'd have to look straight back to check six.
Still would love to try one.
Wiley.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on January 07, 2016, 05:50:26 PM
As far as sensory feedback goesI will explain as best as I poorly can lol. Flying in formation is easy. Not because u can look toward wingman more easy, but because everything in game is HUGE compared to when you are looking on a screen. On a moniter screen it looks as if youre bobbing up and down and moving all over the place, because you can see so many visual references around, both in-game and out, in the rift these movements arent even noticeable. Aircraft seem much bigger, heavier, and slower, and everything happens much slower because of it. Whereas on-screen you were having to concntrate to maintain formation, in the rift it is one handed effortlessness. You dont even have to pay attention other than an occasional glance. Distance becomes a much more tangible thing, like when u look at your wingman next to you, you can no longer focus on the horizon behind him at same time the way you could on a screen. You have to refocus your eyes past him, and now hes a blur. Same way as looking inside your cockpit requires you to refocus your eyes. This is very noticibly different from on a screen where your eyes remain constant focus, and therefore you have many more visual references at once.
Its exactly this requirement to 'look and focus' on a reference that makes being in a spin so awful, (similarly to real life i would imagine). Every manouvre you make, you really need a reference point to hold onto throughout, something that's not really required with on-screen flying. This apply's to FSX and DCS as well. The huey in DCS is one of my favorite VR activities, but if you lose your visual references, especially on takeoff, you feel like you're in an elevator and the cable just snapped. Same as rolling scissors in AH made me feel when I lost the horizon, or FSX when you drop down into zero visabilty thunderclouds and start getting bounced around. ...
The whole thing has some very unique problems and advantages that are still not fully understood.
Thanks for clarifying, Fracca; great observations. Personally, I think your quotes above are fascinating WRT to AH, because it may (almost certainly _will_) require a paradigm shift in how a VR headset player approaches, interacts with, and enjoys the game. At one level, it will bring back the old arguments of who has the advantage, the monitor-based player, seeking "the edge" or the TrackIR/3-monitor based player, seeking immersion, the sense of presence within the game world and truly being "there". I tend to be the guy who just wants to fly around and look at the pretty sky, the being "there" guy. (heck, my scores would show that, LOL).
But I think VR may create an even larger divide in approaches and enjoyment factors in AH. Your observations of how BIG things look is something that has been said of other games too. The sense of true scale, in and of itself I believe will have a huge impact on how players perceive this game. Let's remember, it IS big with huge vistas, endless skies, leviathan-sized airplanes in formation, sprawling ground fortifications and lumbering GVs--our monitors don't do that justice.
Despite the adjustments my stomach or head will have to make, I look forward to seeing if/how/when HTC supports VR. I've said it before; I think AH could be _the_ go-to, best VR air combat MMOG around, drawing hundreds of new players, especially now with the game update in the works. Fun times ahead, I hope.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: fracca on January 07, 2016, 06:36:38 PM
Always happy to answer questions, VR has fascinated me since i was a kid.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: pipz on January 07, 2016, 08:12:40 PM
Dam. I shoulda saved the coin I used to by the Ice tea maker and bought the Rift instead. :old:
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 07, 2016, 09:53:49 PM
Google has failed me, so I'll ask here. I had assumed it was so but is Rift's head tracking scalable like TrackIR? I had assumed so but if it's locked 1:1, that kind of kills my interest quite a bit.
Wiley.
Yes, you use OpenTrack to emulate trackir inputs - and it is scalable. I have mine running at 120:180 (ie 120 degrees gives a 180 degree input).
I can play AH for hours on end, no VR sickness. So the experience will vary from person to person. That said I have great sealegs (when I was young I used to kayak in storms for fun), never get sick on violent flights (usually fall asleep), and I've been playing AH in VR for around 10 or so years. If you're a pansy who cannot handle a childrens rollecoaster VR is not for you :devil
One of the more interesting things you come (as mentioned before) is the size of the cockpits. Even in fighters you notice the cramped cockpits (spitfire) versus ones where you can really move your head around (typhoon).
This is AH on the Rift DK1, I had issues with the tracking as NZ has some funky magnetic stuff going on, so I augmented the tracking with a Hydra. The tracking in the DK2 is way better (uses motion/magnetics/optical).
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: zack1234 on January 08, 2016, 12:54:27 AM
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: zack1234 on January 08, 2016, 02:10:41 AM
Yes!
They will sore eyes looking for my money!
I could give it to the banks.
I would rather burn it!
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vudak on January 08, 2016, 08:07:21 AM
This might be a really stupid question, but when you put this on your head, do you just see one image, or two like in the videos posted? I don't like trackir but this thing looks really cool.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: fracca on January 08, 2016, 08:23:49 AM
This might be a really stupid question, but when you put this on your head, do you just see one image, or two like in the videos posted? I don't like trackir but this thing looks really cool.
Two images, however it depends on the application whether they are different or not. Elite and DCS are Oculus designed, so what you get there is true native 3d, two seperate images that come together to create depth. Forget 3d cinema or tv, with the rift you get (by a huge margin) the best and most useable 3d ive ever seen. Nothing comes close to the depth of view, (see my comment about having to refocus on objects different distances away).
Older games like AH require a different approach. You can either leave it 2d, which is a bit like having 1:1 trackir and a moniter strapped to your face. Its pretty good (simply for the amazing head tracking), but everything is in 2d, or you can use 3rd party injectors like tridef to convert to 3d. Injecting is an artform in itself and takes a lot of trial and error. (And a lot of crossed eyes while youre getting the settings right).
I've been out of the loop for a while, but I heard Nvidia (and therefore by default AMD shortly after) were making big plans (and nvidia at least were in alpha) for native injectors built into their drivers.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: burnerski on January 08, 2016, 09:23:08 AM
I realize I'm late to the party and don't feel like searching. I have Oculus dk2 and V1 on order. Is Aces High planning on supporting Oculus VR? I like Aces High, I just can't go back to a flat screen.
R/ Daniel
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wiley on January 08, 2016, 10:19:21 AM
Yes, you use OpenTrack to emulate trackir inputs - and it is scalable. I have mine running at 120:180 (ie 120 degrees gives a 180 degree input).
Obliged, Vulcan. Thanks for the info. I think my curve would likely be 1:1 until I get to about 90 degrees from front, then I'm going to want some scaling.
Going to be a while before I get one though in any case. Price will likely come down a fair bit.
Wiley.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 08, 2016, 03:27:00 PM
This might be a really stupid question, but when you put this on your head, do you just see one image, or two like in the videos posted? I don't like trackir but this thing looks really cool.
There is essentially a screen for each eye, but you see one image. When we say it is 2D then we mean screens each eye sees have the same image. For 3D a slightly different image is rendered for each eye representing how the real world works for you. With this type of setup and games you can adjust how the 3D appears. In the real world the 3Dness of what we see is tied to things like how far apart your eyes are (IPD), you can adjust this. It makes the 3D more enjoyable, whereas as 3D movies have a fixed pre-rendered IPD.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Bino on January 17, 2016, 10:09:08 AM
This is just sooooooo enticing! :x
Vulcan, do you think there might be any advantage to waiting for version 1.01 and the inevitable bug fixes?
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 17, 2016, 02:40:04 PM
Vulcan, do you think there might be any advantage to waiting for version 1.01 and the inevitable bug fixes?
The dev cycle has been fairly long - I'd expect most have been ironed out.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Gman on January 17, 2016, 07:42:00 PM
Vulcan, kinda obvious question I guess, but does the Rift/Vive/etc get it's performance from the GPU in the PC? IE faster video card = better Rift FPS/performance?
Also, I assume you can't see outside of that thing on your noodle when you're using it, is that correct? Does this make having a monitor essentially useless for games that use VR headsets? Also, for games that require a ton of keypresses, say like DCS, or even AH, can you see the keyboard through the bottom of the headset or is it a touch/feel type of deal for typing.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 18, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
Vulcan, kinda obvious question I guess, but does the Rift/Vive/etc get it's performance from the GPU in the PC? IE faster video card = better Rift FPS/performance?
Also, I assume you can't see outside of that thing on your noodle when you're using it, is that correct? Does this make having a monitor essentially useless for games that use VR headsets? Also, for games that require a ton of keypresses, say like DCS, or even AH, can you see the keyboard through the bottom of the headset or is it a touch/feel type of deal for typing.
Yes. The Rift and Vive are basically displays + head tracking. Faster PC = better experience. On the Rift they are pushing for a GTX970 as a minimum.
That said for the Rift they are pushing low persistence, which makes a huge difference for people who get motion sickness. To get good low persistence you need high fps (might be worth a google for a read up).
In AH I rarely need to look at my keyboard, everything is on HOTAS/Vox. The only issues I have is AH displays vox talkers in the screen corners, which I cannot see. Same goes for FSX, DCS, etc.
Remember with the head tracking you free up your view Hat for other uses.
New games coming out are being built with this in mind, if you ever try Elite Dangerous on a Rift you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Gman on January 19, 2016, 07:55:22 AM
I have ED, and I know DCS has check boxes in the menu for the Rift already too - I was going to ask if it was worth getting a DK2 kit to mess around with since the release date was pushed back again. but after googling that and finding that the kits sold out, and to rebuy one is 1000$+ everywhere, I'll just wait for the retail version I think.
How do you find Aces High is with the DK2 kit in terms of targeting opponents? Are you able to lock your view such as how you pause in TrackIR in order to get a stable sight picture, or is your head/view always in a bit of motion and you just have to fight that and try and hold as still as possible when shooting, like with TrackIR enabled and on? Just interested in what you observations are regarding shooting in game specifically, and also how it look sin terms of keeping situational awareness and your head moving around.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on January 19, 2016, 04:36:21 PM
I use Opentrack for headtracking the DK2 in AH. Opentrack has fully customizable scales and deadzones. I used to use deadzones with the DK1 to give a stable gunsight view, but I found the DK2 tracking so good I don't bother.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Wraith_TMS on February 09, 2016, 02:49:35 PM
FYI, folks... for those who need to rig up for VR:
Pre-orders for Oculus Ready PCs and Rift Bundles Start February 16
The PC prices listed on that page do not include a Rift. Just to clarify.
That is incorrect, Vulcan. See this quote from the page I linked above:
"All bundles include an Oculus-certified PC and everything that comes with Rift – the headset, sensor, remote, an Xbox One controller, EVE: Valkyrie Founder’s Pack, and Lucky’s Tale!"
Am I misunderstanding what "include" means? But thanks for chiming in.
FWIW,
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Gman on February 09, 2016, 04:34:14 PM
FWIW ---
You're both right - the PCs listed on the page in that link at - https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/pre-orders-for-oculus-ready-pcs-and-rift-bundles-start-february-16/ - How can a PC with a 970 for 949$ include the 600$ Rift? Sorry, not happening - those PCs absolutely do NOT come with the rift headset, all they are is discounted IF you have purchased a rift already or plan to buy it WITH one of these PCs, hence the discount/bundle thing.
However if you click the links to the stores like BestBuy, Amazon, etc - that takes you to this page which does include the rift, but notice the prices are all 500 to 600$ higher than on that first page linked - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/clp/oculus-rift-vr-offer/pcmcat748301736879.c?id=pcmcat748301736879
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on February 09, 2016, 09:27:02 PM
Am I misunderstanding what "include" means? But thanks for chiming in.
FWIW,
Somewhat :)
The page is very confusing, at the top it says:
"We’re also thrilled to announce that starting February 16 at 8am Pacific Time, you can pre-order Oculus Ready PC and Rift bundles from Best Buy, Amazon, and the Microsoft Store, starting at $1499 USD for a limited time only."
So the bundles are not out yet and will start from $1499.
Then below it says:
"Introducing the first Oculus Ready PCs Here’s a look at the first Oculus Ready PCs from Asus, Alienware and Dell, with more coming soon:"
So these are not the actual bundles, and they start from $949 (not $1499).
I wasn't having a go at you sorry. It's a terrible web page. I took a while to figure it out - I noticed because some of the deals fell into the "too good to be true" bucket.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Gman on February 10, 2016, 05:21:16 AM
That's what I was pointing out as well - the page linked doesn't actually show the "bundles", but "only" the PCs that are available in the bundles. You have to click the various store links to see each stores actual bundle price if you don't already have a rift pre ordered on its own, and want a rift+rift kit included WITH the "rift capable" PCs listed on that first page. Vulcan is correct, it's horribly designed and worded, and I'll wager they're going to get a lot of orders for that 1000$ PC from people assuming that comes with a rift and kit, and they'll be pretty PO'd when it arrives and it doesn't.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Mister Fork on February 11, 2016, 11:23:24 AM
So what if you JUST want the Rift? I don't want their stupid controllers.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Vulcan on February 11, 2016, 06:36:28 PM
So what if you JUST want the Rift? I don't want their stupid controllers.
No option at the moment. But the Rift backorders stretch through to June or July I think. I'm waiting for the plain option as well. Mind you I have a DK2 so am not in a big rush.
Title: Re: PSA for VR enthusiasts
Post by: Gman on February 21, 2016, 02:10:34 PM
News just in today - The Vive HTC VR will cost a measly, 799$ USD. Cough.
I WAS considering buying both it AND the Occulus, but I think I'll catch a pass on the Vive and just buy the rift, as I plan on using it in DCS, more than I'd use the Vive in Elite Dangerous. Elite will likely support the Occulus as well they said anyway, they are just focusing and further along with the HTC unit.
Heh, people went berserk on the net over the Rift pricing - monday should be good for some humor on various gaming channels regarding the Vive being 200$ more - the article does say due to the controllers it comes with and needs the price is justified, but the games they show, all 12 of them, don't impress me much, other than Elite. Also, 800$ is approaching the price of an entire gaming PC with a 6600k and a 970, for only a couple hundred more.
I think in absolute terms, you're spot on, Terry---in fact, you may actually be understating its true value.
Think of it this way: the consumer Rift has dual hi-rez OLED screens: >1080p resolution/per eye with built-in 3D capability (no special glasses need), built-in 6 DOF head tracking (like TrackIR but built in), which means it's literally like having a seamless sphere of monitors around you that immerse you in whatever game you're in, so not just a dome (and it's done without screen bevels). It has a built-in high-quality DAC/sound system & removable headphones for spacial positioned, head-relative audio (if something makes a sound behind you, it will sound like its behind you, not just stereo).
So, how many 3D capable 22"-24" (or larger) OLED monitors would it take to create a sphere around a person, at say $225-$250/screen? How many decent video cards would be needed to connect up a sphere of screens to a computer (not to mention cables). Add the cost of a TrackIR unit, a decent pair of headphones, a DAC, 3D shutter glasses (which the Rift doesn't need) to get 3D on all those monitors, and then the price of bundled games that will come included in the price of the Rift. If someone were going to build a simpit with all that, yeah, it would be an unholy cost. But a Rift allows you to get all that for the price of a cheap 3-monitor set-up. It's probably a fair assessment to call it a bargain, even at $599.
But most folks think of the price in relative terms and it seems steep because Oculus didn't manage people's expectations enough. The dev kits were sold very cheaply (probably below cost) and there was a general expectation in the VR community that it would be a sub $500 (USD) price point. The balking comes in because folk weren't adequately prepared by Oculus for that higher price. It's basically sticker shock. Most people working hard to make a living or who have to justify a big cost to themselves, their wives or parents, will see that price and groan and despair at that expense.
It's a matter of perspective I suppose, and I'm trying to be objective here, because I'm one of those who is groaning right now.