Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: iaqmya on February 05, 2016, 06:34:04 PM

Title: Loss of P51D
Post by: iaqmya on February 05, 2016, 06:34:04 PM
News reports out of Phoenix AZ indicate a P51D (Reporter stated it was a F51D) was observed to be flying erratically and then dove straight into the ground.  Estimated alt was said to be about 3000 feet when first observed.  Pilot is reported to not have survived.  Aircraft was not really recognizable from video of crash site I saw.  Incident was between 3 and 4 pm local time.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 05, 2016, 07:45:04 PM
Here's the link to the news story.

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-central-southern-az/maricopa/pcso-deputies-responding-to-report-of-plane-crash-in-western-pinal-county
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 05, 2016, 08:57:30 PM
Dig up the data plate and rebuild it.

 :salute
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Peanut1 on February 05, 2016, 09:29:50 PM
wreckage looks like big beautiful doll.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 05, 2016, 09:40:42 PM
wreckage looks like big beautiful doll.

Big Beautiful Doll went in a couple years ago thanks to a retard A-1 driver who didn't know how to do a tactical pitch out.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 05, 2016, 10:43:46 PM
The Tuskegee C pony belly landed too. Bad day for warbirds
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/World-War-II-Era-P-51-Mustang-Makes-Belly-Landing-at-Dallas-Executive-Airport-367529111.html (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/World-War-II-Era-P-51-Mustang-Makes-Belly-Landing-at-Dallas-Executive-Airport-367529111.html)
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 05, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
The Tuskegee C pony belly landed too. Bad day for warbirds
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/World-War-II-Era-P-51-Mustang-Makes-Belly-Landing-at-Dallas-Executive-Airport-367529111.html (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/World-War-II-Era-P-51-Mustang-Makes-Belly-Landing-at-Dallas-Executive-Airport-367529111.html)

Already posted in the O'Club where these topics belong.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 05, 2016, 11:14:12 PM
Already posted in the O'Club where these topics belong.
Thank you Mr. Moderator. My bad.  :aok
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 01:47:29 AM
Thank you Mr. Moderator. My bad.  :aok

 :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok  :aok
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Zimme83 on February 06, 2016, 12:02:36 PM
Seems to have been "big beautiful doll", http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=184260
A bird with a long story, started w the USAAF in -44, became a J-26 (26121) in the SwAF, then sold to Nicaragua were it served until 1963.

Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 01:58:05 PM
Seems to have been "big beautiful doll", http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=184260
A bird with a long story, started w the USAAF in -44, became a J-26 (26121) in the SwAF, then sold to Nicaragua were it served until 1963.

Another one?

That scheme has bad luck.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 06, 2016, 02:18:35 PM
Already posted in the O'Club where these topics belong.
Lol, seems skuzzy disagrees  :bolt:
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 02:20:44 PM
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2016-02-06/ex-sikorsky-president-jeff-pino-killed-p-51-crash
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 02:21:43 PM
Lol, seems skuzzy disagrees  :bolt:


The point remains--it doesn't go in GENERAL DISCUSSION. 

Also, he must agree because my post on the topic is still safe in the O'Club.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 06, 2016, 02:31:15 PM

The point remains--it doesn't go in GENERAL DISCUSSION. 

Also, he must agree because my post on the topic is still safe in the O'Club.
My point is, rule 5...

(See what I did there  :evil:)
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 03:01:33 PM
My point is, rule 5...

(See what I did there  :evil:)

And my point is you're still wrong.  See what you did there?
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Masherbrum on February 06, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
My point is, rule 5...

(See what I did there  :evil:)

You are spinning your wheels.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 06, 2016, 07:11:03 PM
You are spinning your wheels.
Agreed. No more food will be offered.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 06, 2016, 10:00:02 PM
Agreed. No more food will be offered.

Yawn.

It's okay to admit you were wrong.  Posting in the wrong forum makes it harder for Skuzzy.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Karnak on February 06, 2016, 10:58:59 PM
<bleep>
 :(

I am sorry to hear about the pilot and passenger.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 07, 2016, 06:54:31 AM
Yawn.

It's okay to admit you were wrong.  Posting in the wrong forum makes it harder for Skuzzy.
(http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/double-facepalm-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 07, 2016, 12:58:20 PM
(http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/double-facepalm-4.jpg)


Gotta have the last word, eh?   :rofl
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 07, 2016, 09:42:29 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Blessed silence.

Hopefully they can rebuild that C pony. It's a pretty bird.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 08, 2016, 12:57:48 AM
Blessed silence.

Where is my yawn icon?

Not my fault yer butthutrt over your failure to post in the correct forum....

On a topic already posted there, to boot.   Just saying.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Scca on February 08, 2016, 07:40:19 AM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

(http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062610/first-place-at-internet.gif)
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 08, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
(http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062610/first-place-at-internet.gif)

 :x

 :rofl
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: BuckShot on February 08, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
Looks like you got an award AND the last word V.

Nice work.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 08, 2016, 05:46:54 PM
Looks like you got an award AND the last word V.

Nice work.

Thank you, sir.   :salute
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: icepac on February 09, 2016, 06:34:23 PM
Big Beautiful Doll went in a couple years ago thanks to a retard A-1 driver who didn't know how to do a tactical pitch out.


Actually, big beautiful doll's pilot broke hard, and then totally relaxed and did not continue even half his initial rate of turn while the A1 pilot flew a near perfect parabola.

Watch it again.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Masherbrum on February 09, 2016, 07:47:54 PM

Actually, big beautiful doll's pilot broke hard, and then totally relaxed and did not continue even half his initial rate of turn while the A1 pilot flew a near perfect parabola.

Watch it again.

So much for the Ignored one getting the last word. 
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 10, 2016, 08:17:49 PM

Actually, big beautiful doll's pilot broke hard, and then totally relaxed and did not continue even half his initial rate of turn while the A1 pilot flew a near perfect parabola.

Watch it again.

The A-1 driver has the responsibility to see and avoid.   You don't break blindly into the lead aircraft.   You take your spacing off him--VISUALLY.

If you lose sight of the leader you roll toward wings level and then break away through the vertical or pull power (and maybe unload) to see if you can regain visual.   You definitely don't turn across his path.

BBD's pilot was adjusting his pull for the aircraft he was trailing and a Bearcat to starboard and higher.    He did what the Skyraider driver should have done--ease his pull and/or turn rate 

They're even warning the A-1 over the radio of the traffic to his right. 

That was totally on the A-1 pilot.  Poor SA.  It was his responsibility to maintain visual separation.   He screwed up.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 10, 2016, 10:49:39 PM
So much for the Ignored one getting the last word.

Do you have ANYTHING to contribute here or are just into third grade-level provocations?

"Take it easy, 'uh?" - Chappie Sinclair

 :salute
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 11, 2016, 01:01:36 AM
The A-1 driver has the responsibility to see and avoid.   You don't break blindly into the lead aircraft.   You take your spacing off him--VISUALLY.

If you lose sight of the leader you roll toward wings level and then break away through the vertical or pull power (and maybe unload) to see if you can regain visual.   You definitely don't turn across his path.

BBD's pilot was adjusting his pull for the aircraft he was trailing and a Bearcat to starboard and higher.    He did what the Skyraider driver should have done--ease his pull and/or turn rate 

They're even warning the A-1 over the radio of the traffic to his right. 

That was totally on the A-1 pilot.  Poor SA.  It was his responsibility to maintain visual separation.   He screwed up.

I found some other angles.  BBD is taking spacing on airplanes in the break in front of him. 

Number three is following two, keeping visual the whole way.  He rolls right and pulls up to avoid one and two.   The radio warning must say "aircraft" not "Bearcat" and the plane in the footage just after the A-1 rolls right to wings vertical post-collision appears to be the number three aircraft, not a fourth (previously suggested to be an F8F).

Also found the AIB report.

"The collision occurred due to the Skyraider continuing the turn without the pilot having sight of the lead aircraft. His turn was tighter and his speed greater than that of his leader, causing the  flight  paths of the aircraft to converge."

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5422f3d3e5274a131400048f/P-51D_Mustang_D-FBBD_and__Douglas_AD-4N_Skyraider_F-AZDP_02-12.pdf

He also started his break sooner than the pre-flight briefing's three-second parameter.  Number three also began his break too early but because he kept visual on number two was able to avoid the mishap airplanes.

 :salute
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Masherbrum on February 12, 2016, 10:45:10 AM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 12, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
:rofl

 :rofl

 :rofl
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: icepac on February 15, 2016, 10:01:16 PM
I guess that makes sense as to why the skyraider pilot was in the wrong.

What doesn't make sense is having that type of pop top breaking which can lead to you losing sight of the planes around you.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 15, 2016, 10:50:40 PM
I guess that makes sense as to why the skyraider pilot was in the wrong.

What doesn't make sense is having that type of pop top breaking which can lead to you losing sight of the planes around you.

The guy was ex-French Air Force.  I guess his idea of a break was more aggressive.   

I'm with you.  No idea what possessed him to lose sight. 

Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: BuckShot on February 16, 2016, 12:04:54 AM
Looks like complacent pilots who have no business flying in formation... Sloppy.

I feel for those souls lost, their families, and those that had to witness it in person.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: WaffenVW on February 16, 2016, 10:49:37 AM
The guy was ex-French Air Force.  I guess his idea of a break was more aggressive. 

Pretty much what the report says. Also quite the achievement to land that half-a-wing Skyraider.


"The Skyraider pilot had served initially as a fast jet pilot
and  instructor  in  the  French  Air  Force  and,  as  a  fast
jet pilot and instructor, he had taken part in and taught
break  manoeuvres  which  tended  to  be  more  dynamic
than  those  briefed  at  Duxford."
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: icepac on February 19, 2016, 07:25:47 PM
I meant that the "pop top break" that all the guys in that formation were participating is not very advisable.

Regardless of the one guy who screwed up (I consider it two), that break is not known as a very safe break.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 23, 2016, 09:58:20 AM
I meant that the "pop top break" that all the guys in that formation were participating is not very advisable.

Regardless of the one guy who screwed up (I consider it two), that break is not known as a very safe break.

It's just a modified version of a typical WWII break but flown without a crossover.   

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/images/iwotojapan/landing064.jpg

The primary screwup was the number two.  Number three broke early but kept spacing. 

Clearly an avoidable mishap.  Glad nobody died but.............  Too bad it cost a priceless machine.   
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 23, 2016, 10:03:07 AM
Looks like complacent pilots who have no business flying in formation... Sloppy.

I feel for those souls lost, their families, and those that had to witness it in person.


No fatalities other than ego.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: BuckShot on February 27, 2016, 12:09:49 PM
Oh thanks, thought that was the Sikorsky Pres.
Title: Re: Loss of P51D
Post by: Vraciu on February 27, 2016, 09:03:20 PM
Oh thanks, thought that was the Sikorsky Pres.


The second BBD crash killed two people.   The first BBD crash did not.  Sorry for the confusion.