Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Randy1 on February 23, 2016, 06:39:31 AM

Title: Perk Tank?
Post by: Randy1 on February 23, 2016, 06:39:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1P2vVfnl8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1P2vVfnl8)
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 23, 2016, 12:52:03 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rtXOaDNaoUI/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zoney on February 23, 2016, 02:48:07 PM
LOL AckAck, that's the last game I drove a GV in !


Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Chalenge on February 23, 2016, 04:55:58 PM
Randy that's exactly what I need to survive weekend traffic in lower Alabama.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Randy1 on February 24, 2016, 07:04:04 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rtXOaDNaoUI/hqdefault.jpg)

Good one.  I remember playing that game.  For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the game.

Randy that's exactly what I need to survive weekend traffic in lower Alabama.

Did y'all do okay in the storms there?
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Chalenge on February 24, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
Did y'all do okay in the storms there?

Lots of lightning. Lots of wind. One doormat blew off the porch is about all.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Mister Fork on February 24, 2016, 09:36:19 AM
(http://www.geekvintage.com/images/atari-2600-cartridge-battlezone.jpg)

It was the first game I ever bought for my Atari - there was an Arcade version as well.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 24, 2016, 09:47:22 AM
Its a bad time to be a tank right now. If that tank, or any tank for that matter, gets within a couple kilometers of an infantryman with a fire-and-forget atgm it's dead.

It used to be that atgms require a lot of training and only the rare atgm units deployed them. Now it is a hand fired infantry weapon at the squad level.

Quote
In one short engagement, a platoon of U.S. special forces soldiers equipped with Javelins destroyed two T-55 tanks, eight armored personnel carriers, and four troop trucks

And that was over a decade ago.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Scca on February 24, 2016, 09:57:42 AM
I thought dr7 already had this tank...  :rofl
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: DaveBB on February 24, 2016, 05:50:25 PM
Its a bad time to be a tank right now. If that tank, or any tank for that matter, gets within a couple kilometers of an infantryman with a fire-and-forget atgm it's dead.

It used to be that atgms require a lot of training and only the rare atgm units deployed them. Now it is a hand fired infantry weapon at the squad level.

And that was over a decade ago.

Apparently you haven't see the Merkava's self defense system in action.  Its basically a radar guided shotgun.  I've seen videos of it destroying incoming RPGs in combat.  The Abrams has a similar system in development.

Quote
The Merkava Mk 4m Windbreaker is a Merkava Mk IV equipped with the Trophy active protection system (APS) designated "Meil Ruach" (Hebrew: מעיל רוח‎; "Windbreaker" or "Wind Coat"). The system was operational by the end of 2007. The serial production of Merkava Mk 4m tanks started in 2009 and the first whole brigade of Merkava Mk 4m tanks was declared operational in 2011. The Trophy APS successfully intercepted RPG rounds and anti-tank guided missiles, including the 9M133 Kornet, fired by Hamas before and during Operation Protective Edge in 2014.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2016, 08:44:14 AM
Yes I knew that. Not just Israeli tanks have aps.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zimme83 on February 25, 2016, 09:32:21 AM
There are several other ways to protect a tank, both passive and active. Multi spectral camouflage, aerosol sprays, laser jammers etc. But you can never make a indestructible tank and tank ops need to be coordinated with infantry, air etc to decrease vulnerability.

Training, tactic and mutual support between different weapon systems are the key.
Without it you end up like this:
Kornet ATGM vs Saudi M1A2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBwKYvINTds

But its nothing new, The tank was expected to loose the "battle" against ATGM:s back in the 70s but the tanks are still here..
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2016, 01:40:04 PM
That might have been a monkey model abrams for export. The newer ATGMs like the javelin and it's successors make the kornet look obsolete.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zimme83 on February 25, 2016, 02:24:29 PM
Saudis have the "standard" M1A2, unlike some other countries that have downgraded versions.

Edit: Kornet, although old, is a very potent missile and a serious threat to any tank, 1000-1300 mm penetration is a lot. 
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2016, 02:55:14 PM
Penetration isn't the issue, it's a weapons platoon or atgm section weapon, not intended or practical to be supplied to every rifle squad. It's not fire-and-forget and it's laser guided.

How do you know it was a Saudi m1a2?
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zimme83 on February 25, 2016, 05:13:15 PM
Saudis only have M1A2:s so its not so hard to figure out. And their not-so-well-going ground ops in Yemen are pretty well covered so their losses is no secret. Several Abrams have also been captured and blowed up by the rebels after being abandoned by their crews.

But my point was that no matter how good tanks you have, use them wrong will lead to losses.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Mister Fork on February 25, 2016, 05:47:47 PM
<snip>...
But my point was that no matter how good tanks you have, use them wrong will lead to losses.

...as the current Iraqi forces are a testament to this fact.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 26, 2016, 03:43:07 AM
Yeah what I'm saying is how do you know that's a video of a Saudi tank and not an iraqi tank.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 26, 2016, 04:39:11 AM
Yeah what I'm saying is how do you know that's a video of a Saudi tank and not an iraqi tank.


Because the video was first posted on a Houthi rebel site.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: save on February 26, 2016, 09:41:14 AM
We used to say "A tank in a town is a dead tank".

Russian proved that by trying to run masses of tanks into the ruins of Berlin 1945.
They lost 2000(!) of them there.


But my point was that no matter how good tanks you have, use them wrong will lead to losses.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 26, 2016, 10:36:32 AM
You should read Thunder Run.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/dec/07/magazine/tm-marines49

http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Run-Armored-Capture-Baghdad/dp/080214179X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456504443&sr=8-1&keywords=thunder+run
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: FLOOB on February 26, 2016, 11:44:59 AM
Speaking of Thunder Run I just found some news footage from objective curly that I'd never seen.



Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zimme83 on February 26, 2016, 12:04:31 PM
We used to say "A tank in a town is a dead tank".

Russian proved that by trying to run masses of tanks into the ruins of Berlin 1945.
They lost 2000(!) of them there.

There are a lot of examples, Grozny in 1994-95 is another good one.

Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: DaveBB on February 27, 2016, 08:23:01 AM
You should read Thunder Run.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/dec/07/magazine/tm-marines49

http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Run-Armored-Capture-Baghdad/dp/080214179X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456504443&sr=8-1&keywords=thunder+run

I've read it. Then met one of the guys in the book who was working as security for UPS. 
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: Zimme83 on February 27, 2016, 11:44:16 AM
From like yesterday. Tank seems damaged but atleast one crew member gets out. Vid doesn't give much info on how serious the damages is but my guess is atleast "temporarily disabled"
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: save on February 29, 2016, 04:55:29 AM
Pretty much all tanks that is not burned out can be repaired, if you just can tow it to safety.
Title: Re: Perk Tank?
Post by: DaveBB on February 29, 2016, 05:13:52 AM


First a Merkava destroys an anti-tank missile. Second it destroys a RPG-29.