Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Randy1 on February 28, 2016, 08:19:40 AM
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Please take a look at the "don't move your controls so rapidly" joystick freeze for a different way to what you want it to do.
It happens with simultaneously using full rudder, with elevator and aileron when trying to get a kill shot when both my plane and the reds plane is near stall.
It has never ever happened when trying to avoid being shot down.
The frequency is about is about once per week at the most to once a month at the least.
At least consider reducing the time the controls are locked up.
I have changed joystick and pedals and that did not help.
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Considering that the game is very lenient with that particular control message, you might wish to have a look into your joystick. There is a very good chance that it is spiking rather rapidly during movement and therefore needing to be replaced.
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Change how you fly!
Seriously. I just changed joysticks. I went from a CH to an X55. It has been a RE-learning process worst than TrackIR. I have used a CH stick forever and never had to change any settings, or scalings. I was very use to how the stick moved and reacted in the game and NEVER got a "dont move your stick...." error.
With my X55 I have been messing with the setting, scalings, spring tension and so on for weeks and I have run into the "dont move your stick...." error a number of times.... as well as other planes, trees, and vehicles.
The point is, DON'T MOVE YOUR STICK SO MUCH! :devil In your case your slamming the stick and rudders to push the plane that little bit more at stall speed to get the lead for a shot. Get your self into a better position next time, don't force the shot.
The reason it is set up like it is, is to penalize those that stick stir thinking to get out of being hit by you. This locks up their controls so you have a good opportunity at hitting a strait and level target for a second of two.
The other reason your doing this more often is what Morphied calls the "old man syndrome". Us old guys don't get many chances at kills in this game any more, so when we do, we kinda OVER do it. :D Especially in todays game where your more often than not trying to beat 5 other guys to the kill, or kill this guy quick because 5 others guys are coming after you.
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If you're absolutely sure you're NOT moving your stick too much, chances are it's something in your controls themselves. Most have pots in them. Pots get dirty. Dirty pots spike at certain points in their travel. Hit one of those spots and the game sees it as if you're jerking around.
I've taken my CH stuff apart periodically over the years to do a good cleaning. I'll get a few cleanings of the pots before they need replacing. Parts are a lot harder to come by than in past years. If tearing your stuff apart is outside of your comfort zone then you can always try new controls.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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The control lock was already changed years ago to adjust for your airspeed so that when near stall speed you can flail the stick around more. It's only triggered by full fast control movements that wouldn't be possible in reality due to air pressure on the control surfaces.
I assume you aren't spiking since you've been looking at this for a while. Practice getting the message on purpose and it will be easier to avoid it.
It sounds like you only lock up when trying to make shots you aren't lined up for so that's something you can look at changing.
Another thing to look at is the fact that the rudder doesn't move as fast as you can move your game controller so there is no benefit to the fast full deflection. In other words you can't lock up the rudder moving the controller at the speed the rudder moves in game. You will get a slow rudder deflection regardless of input and with a full deflection and quick reversal you will only get a partial deflection. Spend some time watching the rudder movement to get a feel for matching the speed and you'll have better rudder control.
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As others have said, it's a question of learning or failing hardware.
That message was a regular issue when I started umpteen years ago. Last year I recall getting it once. My current stick is the third or fourth in a row, none of them has cost more than €50 so it's not a question of superior quality or constant renewals.
Some years ago I read the FAF student booklet with real size drawings of stick movements for most common maneuvers. Suffice to say the booklet was small enough to fit in the breast pocket and the images filled half a page...
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I used to get this often when at a point in the fight that it was an all out stall and tiny incremental movemnts made this happen.....got new stick and haven't had it since...
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The other reason your doing this more often is what Morphied calls the "old man syndrome". Us old guys don't get many chances at kills in this game any more,
Have you seen Randy fly? It's definitely not a case of him not getting many kills.
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Have you seen Randy fly? It's definitely not a case of him not getting many kills.
Yes I have, I know how he flies, and have been there myself. He is either using worn out equipment, or he is pushing too hard to get the kills. Either of which is causing the error message, NOT a problem with the game.
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The two most common causes for getting that error message are 1)improperly calibrated controllers 2) faulty controllers.
To make sure that it's not a hardware issue, it is important to go through the three calibration routines for the game. Calibrate in Windows (either using the Windows calibration tool or your joystick's software to calibrate) and after that is done go into AH and first (this is important) calibrate the axis for each of the controllers (clipboard -> options -> controllers -> map controllers -> calibrate axis) and when that it complete, calibrate the controllers (clipboard -> options -> controllers -> calibrate joystick) and see if the issue persists in game. If it does then look at the hardware being most likely issue.
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Some good advice in this thread!
I would add while following Ack ack's advice check each axis,watch the raw and scaled windows and move the controller through it's complete movement. If you see the line moving with out inputs of continue to move after inputs it's likely a bad controller or spiking controller.
Use Ack's advice to try to correct the issue,you can try some dampening to see if that helps.
I find usually it's the player,then may not notice that they are really hamfisting the controls,or have old man syndrome as Fugi explained. I usually suggest the player relaxes and doesnt grip the controller so hard. Often near the stall a player will be moving the controller much more than they think they are because it's having little effect on movement of the A/C.
YMMV.
:salute
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Can't remember the last time I got that message but I do know the Pain in the butt a joystick losing calibration can be....I would start at the stick end like AKAK said....
I never seen any maneuvers out of you that seem like they would push that limit, some people need to get it every time a plane gets on their six....EXAMPLE JbLaser flops the dora around to the point it comes off laggy on my end.
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The two most common causes for getting that error message are 1)improperly calibrated controllers 2) faulty controllers.
To make sure that it's not a hardware issue, it is important to go through the three calibration routines for the game. Calibrate in Windows (either using the Windows calibration tool or your joystick's software to calibrate) and after that is done go into AH and first (this is important) calibrate the axis for each of the controllers (clipboard -> options -> controllers -> map controllers -> calibrate axis) and when that it complete, calibrate the controllers (clipboard -> options -> controllers -> calibrate joystick) and see if the issue persists in game. If it does then look at the hardware being most likely issue.
Ack Ack and others suggested the detailed calibration. I have calibrated many times in AH and once or twice in windows to stop this issue but to no avail but not to the detailed level Ack Ack recommended. That seemed like a good place to start. Thanks to Ack Ack and others for the advice.
I in find in windows 7 a place that I could add a tiny dead band on the rudder center to stop cold a center fluctuating value you could see in AH "Controls" section. How I missed that before I have no idea.
Again, thanks to everyone for your suggestions.
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Please for the love of cod, don't ask them to ease up on the stick-to-rapidly thing. It's already everyone's go-to evasive maneuver.
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Please for the love of cod, don't ask them to ease up on the stick-to-rapidly thing. It's already everyone's go-to evasive maneuver.
I noticed it being used more and more of late myself. If anything tighten it up! :old:
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. . .If anything tighten it up! :old:
Please, please no.
Someone claimed AH alters this lockup with speed which i doubt since my lockup always occurs at low speed when making full stick movement to kill a stalling plane.
I see the reason for the lockup idea but the implication of this corrective measure is limited in its originality, and comprehensive inclusion.
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Someone claimed AH alters this lockup with speed which i doubt since my lockup always occurs at low speed when making full stick movement to kill a stalling plane.
No need to speculate when you can confirm it in a short flight test. :joystick:
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Randy,
Is it still occurring? If so, have you tried using a cleaner on the internal parts of the stick?
My most recent CH Fighterstick has been spiking at various times over the last few years, and I finally opened up the base and sprayed cleaner into the pots. Since then, it has been smooth throughout the entire range of motion, in both X and Y axis, without a single spike.
I used this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BXOGNI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00
Just a thought, if you're still having problems. From the one encounter I had with you the other day, you definitely didn't do anything that would warrant the message. So, if that's a representation of your flight style, perhaps cleaning the pots is the next step.
-mir
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Mir, this has all been recommended to him in this thread and in others. He's absolutely convinced it's the game, not his controllers or the guy using the controllers. Apparently there's no getting him turned around on this although many have tried.
FWIW I fly a 38 all the time, have well worn (but we'll kept) CH controllers and I couldn't tell ya when the last time that happened to me. Probably was right before my last stick tear down and that's what alerted me to start checking for a spikey pot. But what do I know, right?
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Mir, this has all been recommended to him in this thread and in others. He's absolutely convinced it's the game, not his controllers or the guy using the controllers. Apparently there's no getting him turned around on this although many have tried.
FWIW I fly a 38 all the time, have well worn (but we'll kept) CH controllers and I couldn't tell ya when the last time that happened to me. Probably was right before my last stick tear down and that's what alerted me to start checking for a spikey pot. But what do I know, right?
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I have replaced the joystick so no more resistance pots. I did disassemble and clean pots on the rudder pedals to no avail. I replaced the pedals and it still happens. I tried Ack-Acks suggestion and it still happens. I replaced the usb hub and changed ports many times.
If this happened while I was evading someone, I would have zero complaint but it doesn't.
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Here is a suggestion:
Edit: Nevermind, my suggestion would have been a waste of HTC's valuable time, after rereading what everyone has posted
TC
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If this happened while I was evading someone, I would have zero complaint but it doesn't.
Just so we're clear that whether you might be the one doing the evading has nothing to do with it. If you're trying to follow a nut job stick stirrer thru his "evasives" (and that's what you described) that might well cause the same result.
You are absolutely correct that this feature has much to do with the smoothing code. There are limitations to what it can smooth out tho and if it sees more spikes than it will allow you get the lockup and message. It sees it as an obvious attempt to scam the smoothing code. Imagine the game without it! Oh the humanity! It'd be all jerks all the time.
This problem happens to generally three groups of players. The new guys that haven't grasped the subtle nuances yet. The straight up stick stirrers. The guys with something going on with their controllers or in their PC. I think I'm safe in saying it ain't the game just randomly doing it. It's been around as long as I can remember and the above groups pretty much cover it. They post here and eventually the source gets found out.
If you're absolutely positive it's not you doing it, keep digging around and try to duplicate the problem. Dude, I'm a mechanic and gremlins just drive me nuts. This is a gremlin.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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When it happens, have you been quickly moving your joystick to the absolute end of it's axis throws, back and forth for a while trying to follow some rapidly maneuvering con? Also, does your stick return to center tightly when you let it go or, do you have a bit of mush and seem to need a recalibration often?
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When it happens, have you been quickly moving your joystick to the absolute end of it's axis throws, back and forth for a while trying to follow some rapidly maneuvering con? Also, does your stick return to center tightly when you let it go or, do you have a bit of mush and seem to need a recalibration often?
Calibration stays rock solid. Center of rudder and joystick solid.
It happened again last night. Same situation. Fast throw of hard rudder, hard aileron with some amount of elevator but not full to pull a shot on a red.
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In that moment are you fast throwing the joystick and the rudder, then hitting the physical end stops of your joystick and rudder devices?
I haven't had this problem in years, and if you are hitting the ends of the physical throw after slamming into those positions, there may be a solution other than your hardware. But, I need to know if this is what the end result is to your description of:
Fast throw of hard rudder, hard aileron
Can you create a lockup by a simple fast throwing your ailerons from one end stop to the other visiting full left then full right deflection?
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Calibration stays rock solid. Center of rudder and joystick solid.
It happened again last night. Same situation. Fast throw of hard rudder, hard aileron with some amount of elevator but not full to pull a shot on a red.
I tried locking up on purpose following your description. It's not enough to trigger the lock. You can do a fast full deflection of all 3 axis with no lockup. It seems likely you're generating more input then you described.
It's instructive to lock up on purpose to see the actual minimum input required to trigger it.
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That same sentence caught my eye, too.
Unfortunately the message only talks about "controls" although you actually have more than one separate devices. It would help if you could separate them for testing. Go offline, get your favourite plane and some altitude and set your plane level on autopilot. Without touching your pedals, move your stick rapidly left and right in gradually increasing the trajectory until you reach the ends. Make note where you get the message. Do the same up-down. Then do the same with your pedals only. Try to find out which one of your controls is the culprit.
If you only get the message with the end-to-end moves, it may still be your calibration: While calibrating, you probably don't "fast throw" the controllers from edge to edge. That may produce a non-calibrated rim outside the calibrated area and when you step over the line, you get the message.
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Bizman my understanding is that the program looks at the amount of deflection within a time period. It's adjusted for speed to trigger at a percentage above stall speed.
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When you scale the axis, does that introduce a delay to the deflection time period regardless to how physically fast you throw the stick to a side? And do the calibration ends respective to your joystick's physical deflection end stops, then reflect the full deflection programmed for each aileron or elevator respective to each aircraft?
I still need to know Randy's answer to my question.
HuH! another question Randy, do you scale your x,y joystick axis, or is everything flat at 100% along the top of the sliders?
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Have you ruled out a hardware problem?
Long time ago I had a sound card that gave me fits for causing stick spikes. While I can understand if it was the very old days of having the soundcard control the joystick, but this was in the early USB days. Another example is one of my first machines as it had a FM tuner card and that thing was really bad for IRQ conflicts.
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Bizman my understanding is that the program looks at the amount of deflection within a time period. It's adjusted for speed to trigger at a percentage above stall speed.
You may be right, I know nothing about coding and such. Him having calibrated a smaller area than he's actually using just popped into my mind when I went offline to test how easily I could get that message. At least in my case I had to go to the extremities. No matter how fast I wobbled the stick within half of its trajectory I couldn't get the message to appear.
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I can lock up using one axis with partial deflections. Roll seems easier than pitch but that may be ergonomics. Two axis at the same time seems to trigger it faster.
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The only other solution is that the USB ports are the issue. Well, that or Randy's flying.
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Powered USB hub cleared up my issues