Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: icepac on March 06, 2016, 08:37:18 AM
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It would be nice to have them closer to reality.
As it is now, a huge radial can continue windmilling after the plane has landed on the deck of a CV.............which certainly never happened in real life.
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I think that's a visual bug. If you film you can see the prop will stop on film even though it still shows as spinning in game.
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A visual bug cannot create the huge drag of a windmilling prop.
Try to glide a spit 14 with windmilling prop and without.
Huge difference.
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A visual bug cannot create the huge drag of a windmilling prop.
Try to glide a spit 14 with windmilling prop and without.
Huge difference.
How is gliding a Spit 14 the same thing as parking a big radial on a moving CV?
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Try gliding a spit 14 with prop stopped VS windmilling and note the glide distance difference.
Hopefully are are just being obtuse and not really that stupid.
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The visual bug is the stopped prop appearing to still rotate. That's different than the rotating prop appearing to rotate.
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See Rule #4
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Actually it has to do with your post about the radial engine plane sitting on a CV and seeing the prop spinning.
Gliding with the prop stopped is a different conversation.
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No it's not..............I started the topic.
I am well aware what this topic is about for that reason.
My point is that the props. continue to windmill at speeds that are far lower than in real life.
I know of no piston engine airplane that will windmill it's prop down to 34mph.
The reference of the plane on the carrier deck is to show that the prop. will windmill at carrier cruising speeds.
In your zeal to skewer, you missed the point of the topic completely.
Here is a link to the difference in prop. stopped vs prop. windmilling glide characteristics.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,378406.0.html
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I'm aware of the drag difference. I'm also aware that the film viewer shows the prop stopped on the CV while the game shows it moving. That's a visual bug that is separate from the drag difference in a rotating vs stopped prop which is modeled in AH.
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Yes.....this topic has nothing to do with a visual bug.
Not sure why you decided it was an issue when it has nothing to do with the topic.
The original post makes zero mention of the film viewer.......only that the prop. continues to windmill at such a low speed that some planes will windmill on the deck of a moving carrier after shutting down the engine.
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See Rule #4
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I provided all the details.
Surely enough that a trainer could figure it out and not lead off in a tangent totally unrelated to the wishlist post.
Your ad hominem attacks aren't helping and add nothing usable to the discussion.
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I provided all the details.
Surely enough that a trainer could figure it out and not lead off in a tangent totally unrelated to the wishlist post.
Your ad hominem attacks aren't helping and add nothing usable to the discussion.
Well, that was rather ironic.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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:headscratch: is the golf channel or are we playing fighting with the "Stars"......... :huh
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I think he just wants the best for the game, but certainly there are more than a single attitude in this thread.
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I think he just wants the best for the game, but certainly there are more than a single attitude in this thread.
Well that's nice. I'm pretty sure most (if not all of us) would like that. Now what?
1: Repeat the wish and it's perception along with some personality attacks and insults to really help it along?
2: Get your own wish thread locked?
3: Rage quit?
4: Rage return?
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1: Repeat the wish and it's perception along with some personality attacks and insults to really help it along?
2: Get your own wish thread locked?
3: Rage quit?
4: Rage return?
All good choices Arlo. :D
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5: Add the Sparviero.
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It would be nice to have them closer to reality.
As it is now, a huge radial can continue windmilling after the plane has landed on the deck of a CV.............which certainly never happened in real life.
How are you for sure that a plane with Radial Piston engines were not capable of "wind milling", after the plane had landed on the deck of a CV in real life?
I have personally seen with my eyes , E-2 Hawkeye's perform "wind milling" of their engines when I was on the USS Nimitz, while it/they sat on the deck of a CV and after landing on a CV... ( edit: I should have included these were not Radials, they were Turbo Prop's with allisons, more specific Allison T56-A-425 turboprops )
not saying either way, that what you posted is wrong or right, I'm just clarifying that a Radial/Piston Prop driven plane has the capability to windmill it's engines while sitting on a CV Deck, or after landing on a CV deck in real life
from going by your opening post, I see where FLS thought it might be a visual issue verses what the film actually shows. I'm not speaking for FLS, he can do that for himself, but your original post was very vague in it's description of what your wish was.... hence, FLS posted a logical reply
The visual bug is the stopped prop appearing to still rotate. That's different than the rotating prop appearing to rotate.
See Rule #4
hope this helps
TC
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I think the question is, at what relative air speed does Aces High currently consider the prop stopped for aerodynamic modeling? With the related question of whether the prop appears to be spinning in the game or on film at that point.
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I think the question is, at what relative air speed does Aces High currently consider the prop stopped for aerodynamic modeling? With the related question of whether the prop appears to be spinning in the game or on film at that point.
That is a understandable question!
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I can dig that.
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Well that's nice. I'm pretty sure most (if not all of us) would like that. Now what?
1: Repeat the wish and it's perception along with some personality attacks and insults to really help it along?
2: Get your own wish thread locked?
3: Rage quit?
4: Rage return?
Sarcasm noted, but you forgot the requisite preemptive whine:
"The wind-milling F4U prop should be perked."
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Sarcasm noted, but you forgot the requisite preemptive whine:
"The wind-milling F4U prop should be perked."
But of course.
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I'll pull back the attitude which was from frustration at having to explain multiple times that a visual bug has nothing to do with this wishlist post.
Yes, an allison or a tpe331 will windmill in 25mph winds and a PT6 should even more easily windmill since it's not directly geared.
They are not positive displacement engines and have no cylinders that would need to go through multiple compression strokes in order to windmill.
The drag of most any piston engine modeled in the game.......(even likely the storch) should not continue to windmill at 34mph.........unless it had some sort of compression release to make hand propping it easier (doubtful).
The storch should windmill down to the lowest speed of most every plane in the planeset.
I've hand propped planes from cubs to luscombe coupes and up to a 0360 engine size and know for sure that it would take more than 34mph to keep them spinning.
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:airplane:
I'll pull back the attitude which was from frustration at having to explain multiple times that a visual bug has nothing to do with this wishlist post.
Yes, an allison or a tpe331 will windmill in 25mph winds and a PT6 should even more easily windmill since it's not directly geared.
They are not positive displacement engines and have no cylinders that would need to go through multiple compression strokes in order to windmill.
The drag of most any piston engine modeled in the game.......(even likely the storch) should not continue to windmill at 34mph.........unless it had some sort of compression release to make hand propping it easier (doubtful).
The storch should windmill down to the lowest speed of most every plane in the planeset.
I've hand propped planes from cubs to luscombe coupes and up to a 0360 engine size and know for sure that it would take more than 34mph to keep them spinning.
:airplane: I am not trying to get into this discussion, but bear in mind, the large radials on the F6F, F4U's. R-2800 and 3350's had a large blade area on the prop blades and when they landed, the engine was hot and all metal had expand a good bit and just the carrier speed of about 30knots, running "traps" would be enough to turn the props. That is why in a lot of the pic's you see, a lot of the front row of aircraft had restrains on the props to keep them from windmilling, even when parked. With a "hot" engine, I would think they would windmill quite easily!
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Across the deck of a carrier during flight ops is usually more than 50mph....often a bit more.
There's a lot of wind out in the ocean which is why ships were able to sail about.
Let's use the carrier midway's 33 knots and add a 10 knot wind that they would head into.
That's 43 knots which converts to 49.4 mph.
Now in the post above.....how much headwind was there that day?
Is it possible the wind across the deck was 60+ mph when props were observed "windmilling"?
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icepac I love you to death, but I am still wondering what your wish is about. actually more like how does it affect gameplay.
semp
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Being able to stop the prop is the difference between dropping like a stone or gliding enough to make it home.
I'm sure all the LA7 guys who up with 1/4 fuel would appreciate this.
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Reduce rpm in the F4U and it'll glide rather well, actually. I'll post a glide video in the film thread.
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Reduce rpm in the F4U and it'll glide rather well, actually. I'll post a glide video in the film thread.
All his point is, is the glide path is different between:
High RPM windmilling
Low RPM windmilling
Stopped prop
In order of most to least drag. I don't know what the proper speeds are, I don't know if what's in the game is right or wrong, but it would be neat if it reflected reality I suppose.
High alt bomber hunting, I do a ton of dead sticking home. If it's as big of a difference between windmilling and not windmillling as icepac claims, it's worth stopping the prop in some situations.
Wiley.
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Being able to stop the prop is the difference between dropping like a stone or gliding enough to make it home.
I just posted a film of making it home a sector away on glide. I took off from that base on auto-climb and a quarter tank. When the fuel ran out, I turned around. I should have reduced rpm right away. I did about 4 minutes into the film. On reflection, I'm glad because it shows what a difference dropping RPM makes. There was no 'dropping like a rock' involved. In game, the prop windmills. In film, it doesn't. A visual glitch. I was travelling at an airspeed of between 100 and 150 and had a rate of descent between 3.5 and less than 2 (the latter two achieved by reducing rpm). That may be why the wish doesn't seem like a huge deal to many. But then, an open canopy wish would be much the same and I'm cool with that. I'm cool without it. :) :cheers:
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In an I16, I found descent of 2200fpm with prop stopped and 6500fpm with prop windmilling.
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Yeah.....I checked the F4u1a and tested the descent in the 3 most common options and am pretty impressed how HTC modeled it.
I can retract the wish but will certainly still be able to glide further than 99% of the players.
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Yeah.....I checked the F4u1a and tested the descent in the 3 most common options and am pretty impressed how HTC modeled it.
I can retract the wish but will certainly still be able to glide further than 99% of the players.
So what is the exact speed the prop stops on every plane? Being your so unimpressed you must know the speed of each plane within 5 mph.
HiTech
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So what is the exact speed the prop stops on every plane? Being your so unimpressed you must know the speed of each plane within 5 mph.
HiTech
I can tell you from experience that with the Cessna 182 (Continental O-470) and Cessna P206 (Continental IO-520) the prop doesn't stop until roll out after touchdown.
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So what is the exact speed the prop stops on every plane? Being your so unimpressed you must know the speed of each plane within 5 mph.
HiTech
Read the post right above yours.
It clearly says I am impressed.
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Read the post right above yours.
It clearly says I am impressed.
I apologize for jumping on you. I read the post inncorectly.
HiTech
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I provided all the details.
Surely enough that a trainer could figure it out and not lead off in a tangent totally unrelated to the wishlist post.
Your ad hominem attacks aren't helping and add nothing usable to the discussion.
Damn ice. call down. You cant go no where with out issues.