Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Chalenge on June 05, 2016, 03:03:18 PM
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We are studying VR sickness in school and I thought it might be a good time to recommend motion blur as an option.
Meanwhile I'm taking three weeks in the PI, so I won't be very helpful for that long.
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PI?
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If the VR set has a sensible Frame Rate, motion sickness wont be a problem.
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I think your course needs updating, they are trying to get rid of motion blur in VR as it contributes to motion sickness.
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PI?
Philippine Islands.
No, Vulcan, the data from the course in question comes from current AAA title productions in gaming, and a U.S. Air Force study on frame rates and human perception (persistence of vision). It is pretty much reduced to layman terms in this video (How Many FPS Can Your Eye See?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSHeYT2U70
The motion blur information occurs at about 4:00.
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I have motion sickness when I play VOD on my TV screen. It started with the first DOOM. I'd play for 25 minutes before I'd have to stop for not barfing. I'm supper sensitive to MS in real life when passenger on a plane or even car racing when I'm driving. Beats me, I enjoy all of these 😐. I also have the balance and coordination of a cat, maybe it's related.
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Philippine Islands.
No, Vulcan, the data from the course in question comes from current AAA title productions in gaming, and a U.S. Air Force study on frame rates and human perception (persistence of vision). It is pretty much reduced to layman terms in this video (How Many FPS Can Your Eye See?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSHeYT2U70
The motion blur information occurs at about 4:00.
The USAF study is from when... the 60's iirc? Maybe it needs updating.
A full-persistence display has its pixels lit all the time. As Luckey explains, a full-persistence display only shows the correct scene orientation for one point in time; assuming the user continues to move their head, the scene orientation is out of date until the next frame can be drawn. The low-persistence technique lights the pixels only when the scene orientation is correct and goes dark immediately thereafter. Thanks to a high refresh rate, this happens so quickly that the user sees one continuous image. The end result is significantly reduced motion blur and potentially less nausea.
http://www.roadtovr.com/ces-2014-oculus-rift-crystal-cove-prototype-palmer-luckey-nate-mitchell-low-persistence-positional-tracking-interview-video/
Oculus are specifically targeting motion blur reduction.
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Concerning the time period of the USAF test it obviously doesn't matter.
Concerning the blur you are arguing a completely different point. Rather than a blur created by a hardware persistence issue (I would call it optical nerve ghosting except it sounds like it is at least partially the blame of hardware) the motion blur on the periphery created by software is a tool to help battle user sickness. These are two totally different things. It's not just for VR either, but also has a place in any display environment where high speed motion in close proximity with fixed objects, or objects moving in the opposite direction could instill motion sickness.
The whole point of an option like this is that it is an option. Since not everyone reacts to MS (similar to Frenchy) in the same way it will not be a cure for everyone, but what bothers me most about these devices is the 20-40 minute limit recommended by the manufacturers.
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Concerning the time period of the USAF test it obviously doesn't matter.
Yeah it does. These were the same people that were telling you to drop and hide under your school desk during a nuclear attack. Times change, information progresses.
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Thankfully, nukes don't enter into it and the human optic nerve and visual cortex have not changed for thousands of years.
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the human optic nerve and visual cortex have not changed for thousands of years.
That's as irrelevant as nukes. Research and understanding has progressed.
What exactly would you like to have blurred? The blue sky and clouds as you fly through them? Or perhaps the ground as you drive a tank slowly across it?
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I also have the balance and coordination of a cat, maybe it's related.
If my cats predilection to vomit is any indication I think you might be on to something. Do you take a lot of naps?
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That's as irrelevant as nukes. Research and understanding has progressed.
What exactly would you like to have blurred? The blue sky and clouds as you fly through them? Or perhaps the ground as you drive a tank slowly across it?
First, while that's true the details in that report enumerate specifics that have not changed with technology.
And don't be silly. You pass objects in the air all the time and at a much higher speed than F1 racecars. I know it can be really hard at times, but some of you guys might think about things before you hit that Post button.
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And don't be silly. You pass objects in the air all the time and at a much higher speed than F1 racecars.
Even in the video you posted it mentioned contexts like driving simulators where you pass a lot of detail in great proximity. I can't see how adding motion blur would bring anything to Aces High. If you are low and fast it's not for very long and at alt it's irrelevant. Passing another aircraft is not an overwhelming amount of peripheral detail.
I know it can be really hard at times, but some of you guys might think about things before you hit that Post button.
Your condescention is only surpassed by your false self-assurance. Perhaps you ought to consider why you continually post the things you do in the way you do. I know it can be really hard at times.
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Even in the video you posted it mentioned contexts like driving simulators where you pass a lot of detail in great proximity. I can't see how adding motion blur would bring anything to Aces High. If you are low and fast it's not for very long and at alt it's irrelevant. Passing another aircraft is not an overwhelming amount of peripheral detail.
Your condescention is only surpassed by your false self-assurance. Perhaps you ought to consider why you continually post the things you do in the way you do. I know it can be really hard at times.
It is when you are nearer the ground. You were so close too.
False huh? Ha! Thanks for playing.
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False huh? Ha! Thanks for playing.
Abundently apparent you aren't aware of it. Nearly all of your threads contain the implication that you know more / better and anyone who disagrees is immediately labelled silly, what-have-you. Doesn't cross your mind at all that the person you are now - I don't know the word - interacting with, out-qualifies you
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9965/hitoverhead.gif)
It is when you are nearer the ground. You were so close too.
Yes it is. For fleeting periods of time as I said, which is also what your video addresses.
Ironic is it not, that you suggest this, a player renound for flying at (apparently considerable) altitude or sitting still in a Tiger on the tarmac. :rofl
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That's what I thought when I first saw your posting on this subject. You have nothing to add to the thread except an argument.
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That's what I thought when I first saw your posting on this subject. You have nothing to add to the thread except an argument.
I simply don't agree it's necessary or even appropriate. That's the nature of forms and even life. People with different opinions and ideas. You can accept that and try to make your case or you can get snotty & insulting, which is what you invariably do (and brings out the worst in someone like me). The burden is on you to support your proposition & the video you posted doesn't do that.
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http://www.popsci.com/scientists-think-theyve-found-way-to-eliminate-virtual-reality-sickness?src=SOC&dom=fb&utm_content=bufferac4b6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
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I simply don't agree it's necessary or even appropriate. That's the nature of forms and even life. People with different opinions and ideas. You can accept that and try to make your case or you can get snotty & insulting, which is what you invariably do (and brings out the worst in someone like me). The burden is on you to support your proposition & the video you posted doesn't do that.
I'm actually happy that you read what I write and take it upon yourself to come to this opinion about me. To me it's an indication of your own weakness that you imply my intentions smugness, self-satisfaction, and even arrogance as many have written. Grow a thicker skin, because I really do not care what you think and I am not going to start modifying what I write to satisfy you. I don't like you. You don't like me.
Tough.
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Chalenge, just letting you know, for your benefit; you're being a dick, don't be a dick.
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I'm actually happy that you read what I write and take it upon yourself to come to this opinion about me. To me it's an indication of your own weakness that you imply my intentions smugness, self-satisfaction, and even arrogance as many have written. Grow a thicker skin, because I really do not care what you think and I am not going to start modifying what I write to satisfy you. I don't like you. You don't like me.
Tough.
Why would I need a thicker skin? You don't bother me in the least. If many have written similar things and the common factor is you...
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FoV restrictor in the study that Waffle posted seems to be a nice idea.
Okay here's a swing at a wild pitch, Since Dale and staff are in development of a software application that would bolster Occulus Rift's marketing potential, a select group may have an argument for discounts :pray or lease / loan equipment to test HiTech's customers' experience with motion sickness.
This area of scientific study design I am comfortable with. In order to achieve the highest degree of confidence in your results it is imperative to present a design that has the highest probability to produce the effect (in this case motion sickness). Yes, unfortunately in order to test the effectiveness of a deterrent of MS you first need to make some folks sick. :frown:
Secondly, you should have a respectable sample of subjects. Any offer from the manufacturer to make the hardware more available, matched with the recruitment of new Aces High beta testers from those already with ownership of hardware would benefit all, including customer, developer and manufacturer, if the study's results are positive. :aok
You also need to have a good plan to eliminate positive placebo responders. Some folks are suggestible to conclusions that something is good or bad for them, even if really they have no different properties to do either.
Lastly, but most importantly HiTech's software need to incorporate a design that theoretically improves the reduction in motion sickness :rolleyes: This can be accomplished by using the method described in Waffle's link, addition on motion blur around edges, framerate differentials, or all or any combination of the mentioned designs and of course any that HiTech themselves have come to in house.