General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brooke on June 27, 2016, 06:05:37 PM
Title: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 27, 2016, 06:05:37 PM
There is a lot of discussion these days on ways to increase players in AH.
Things sometimes run in cycles -- and a new cycle is just starting with VR going mainstream.
One thing that seems very exciting to me is that if HTC can get AH3 bundled with VR headsets (or listed in their materials), that might be the magical solution.
AH3 could be the first and main combat flight sim as this wave of VR grows, with sales of VR headsets starting to get quite large, relatively speaking. AH3 could be one of the small number of games to fully use VR in these early days.
Also, the main VR headset contenders include (or soon will include) control devices that could be used to control the plane perhaps nearly as well as a joystick and certainly more intuitively than a mouse, so that lowers barrier to entry a great deal. Also, AH3's use of those controllers will enhance the probability of AH3 getting bundled or mentioned in their materials.
Let us hail the growing wave of VR, hope that AH3 can get bundled or listed, and see what it brings us! :aok
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: 8thJinx on June 27, 2016, 06:19:25 PM
I think my wife would throw all my stuff out the second floor window onto the lawn if she walked in and saw me wearing VR head gear. But that's just me.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Chris79 on June 27, 2016, 06:21:03 PM
What's VR gear cost? I figure it will be somewhat pricey
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 27, 2016, 06:48:32 PM
Expense isn't the important point -- it's how many are sold. Oculus has already sold 100,000, and the market is in its infancy. Market-research companies estimate that many millions of VR headsets will be sold over the next several years.
Let's say 0.5-1M are sold in the next year -- that's a lot of potential market for AH3 if it can get bundled or listed, especially if it is the only combat flight sim in the list.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 27, 2016, 09:11:40 PM
IMO, VR will most likely crash and burn, as a fad.
You can fool the mind thru filling the entire field of vision but you will never get the sensations of gravity, the diving, the rolls those things that define...flying will not happen. The amount of time to learn your controllers blind will scare away many.....its also bit pricey to find out you hate it. IMO :salute
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 27, 2016, 11:21:56 PM
Lot's of people are betting lots of money that VR will be quite big and predict that more than 10 million VR headsets will be sold in the next several years. It is merely the next stage of interaction, foreseen for a long time. Technology just had to get good enough to enable it. We are now there.
Right now Oculus alone has already sold 100,000 of them, and it is a ripe market for AH3 at the moment (given that Oculus's sales are moving way up, and there are several other VR headset manufacturers adding to that volume). My hope is that HTC can benefit from it. Even if VR headsets were to flop in the future, they are a great market for AH3 right now.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 28, 2016, 12:08:41 AM
IMO, VR will most likely crash and burn, as a fad.
You can fool the mind thru filling the entire field of vision but you will never get the sensations of gravity, the diving, the rolls those things that define...flying will not happen. The amount of time to learn your controllers blind will scare away many.....its also bit pricey to find out you hate it. IMO :salute
I've heard mixed things - early on I read quite a few reviews expounding on the technical hurdles and the capital needed to gamble on then weak market interest. What Brooke says is encouraging with sales picking up and positive word-of-mouth spreading - that will certainly drive ingenuity and improved features.
Operating a PS4/XBox simple game controller with a VR headset probably wouldn't be too challenging to get used to, but a PC game would be something else with the separate keyboard, mouse and joystick. They would have to develop these external pieces to register within the VR device as well as wired gloves for hands so the operator could maintain hand-eye coordination with the controls. I'd be interested for both improved immersion and view control, but I'm not quite ready to hop aboard yet.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Skuzzy on June 28, 2016, 06:16:42 AM
Check the Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Elhcf0SuT0) video demonstration using the HTC Vive controllers, instead of the mouse. It is a first pass demonstration of the interface. FYI: For those who do not know. At the beginning of the video you see the hand on the tower floor. It is showing you where the Vive controller is so you can pick it up.
I'll say this about the current generation of VR headsets. They really do add a lot more immersion to the game. They also make it much easier to track targets and allow you to concentrate more on flying and shooting. The Oculus is incredibly smooth in panning and motion. The Vive controllers are also very smooth.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Randy1 on June 28, 2016, 12:30:09 PM
. . . They also make it much easier to track targets and allow you to concentrate more on flying and shooting. . . .
The one i tried, there is no doubt, there is a playing advantage in tracking and in FOV for shooting in near full scale like views.
Come Halloween, blood could be dripping off the hand. Then on leap day, a three finger salute.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 28, 2016, 01:31:03 PM
Sweet!
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: zack1234 on June 28, 2016, 02:01:12 PM
Scratch and sniff cards would be good :old:
Yak9T scratch and sniff
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Wiley on June 28, 2016, 02:07:05 PM
Got to admit the interactive cockpit stuff is interesting, but I'm just more excited for the display and head tracking being 1:1. I can use my keyboard just fine by touch, and HOTAS is HOTAS, so I'm not worried about it.
I really wish I could find a demo unit to putz with just to see how it works with me. Haven't run across one yet though.
Leap Motion front mounted on a VR headset is exciting to me, but I wonder how that would ultimately work out with no tactile feedback.
That kind of stuff is not going to be on this computer though, just not enough horsepower to run it politely.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: NatCigg on June 28, 2016, 03:06:31 PM
i think ill tell the wife. "its like buying another monitor, a really nice one. we can buy one now or i smash our old monitor and buy one to replace our broken monitor." :devil
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 28, 2016, 03:08:26 PM
I'm most excited by it being a possible angle for more people into AH.
A market that can be reached by AH3 at a time when AH3 might have no competition in there yet and when the market is expanding like crazy. 1 million people with VR headsets and one combat flight sim to go to.
That's what I like best! :aok
I'm hoping HTC can get bundled or mentioned in the list of games that is pushed with the VR product.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 28, 2016, 11:48:05 PM
The VR industry is banking something in the billions on it becoming the thing to do and get, 2020 was a date in an article I read today.
When I think VR, I think "holodeck"......
I have no doubts about the visuals, immersion strength, but I myself would have a hard time not seeing the kb or anything else. My controller is made to my actual hand and I still look at it to gain orientation. I can't type either. :bolt:
I used to run an IMAX projector, screen was 7 stories tall and 88ft wide. The movie was called "Too Fly", Cedar Point. That IMAX setup would make peeps barf, regularly. I understand the physical affect peeps will have, I used to start the film and feel the affects in the booth, but it will always be absent true gravity, gravity is the component you want first, imo. When I first started using a big screen flat panel, I used to duck in response to the action, its was funny.
I do not know why but I just feel its a fad. Way to pricey and ultimately somewhat limiting, hell I'm prolly wrong but........
because of the nature of flying, this could be a major boon to flight sims, if it draws more players!!! if corps are willing to burn cash on serious game development again......
and just for the record, I will more than likely buy a unit because ultimately I gotta know....................................
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 29, 2016, 01:07:43 AM
Right now, the cost of an Oculus Rift is $600. That is expensive compared to a $200 monitor, but low enough that they already sold 100,000 of them, and the price will come down very rapidly over time like all tech (that isn't government regulated).
I remember in the mid 1990's when Multisync 15" CRT monitors were $500 (or, inflation adjusted to today's money, $750).
At each stage of computer displays, certain technologies were pretty clear to become mainstream. It was clear that CRT's would take over from printer-based terminals. It was clear that LCD flat screens would take over from CRT's. I do not doubt that VR headsets will become mainstream for segments of gaming.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 29, 2016, 01:15:51 AM
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but I know for a fact that DCS has had VR support for quite some time and iirc war thunder has had VR support for a while as well, so AH wouldn't stand out in terms of VR support.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Vulcan on June 29, 2016, 01:32:20 AM
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but I know for a fact that DCS has had VR support for quite some time and iirc war thunder has had VR support for a while as well, so AH wouldn't stand out in terms of VR support.
AH3 is not DCS nor War Thunder though. It offers different things, and VR users are desperate for new experiences. VR + Flight Sim is a natural pairing, and AH3 has some great features to offer.
All the negative nancys need to spend some flight time with a rift before they pass sentence on VR.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Brooke on June 29, 2016, 01:41:51 AM
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but I know for a fact that DCS has had VR support for quite some time and iirc war thunder has had VR support for a while as well, so AH wouldn't stand out in terms of VR support.
DCS wouldn't be too close in competition, but War Thunder is closer -- I didn't know that it had VR support.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 29, 2016, 09:17:08 AM
DCS wouldn't be too close in competition, but War Thunder is closer -- I didn't know that it had VR support.
War Thunder just added VR support last month.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Invictus84 on June 29, 2016, 12:47:01 PM
DCS? Yes.
War Thunder? Yes. Supported as of last month per the previous post.
IL2:Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow? Yes as of this week's update (v2.002). Currently basic support for Vive. See entry #2 here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?p=367267 (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?p=367267)
IL2 Cliffs of Dover? Planned support with TF 5.0 roll-out later this year. Oculus and Vive should work. More info: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356 (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356)
Rise of Flight? Last I heard support is not planned. I suppose there is hope given IL2:BoS is based off the same graphics engine with updated features.
Good to hear AH is jumping on the bandwagon too. It certainly seems to be the future. Still a bit to new and expensive for me to take the leap, but I expect I will once the 2nd generation headsets start to roll out.
Hope that helps. :salute
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Vulcan on June 29, 2016, 01:59:08 PM
Support for the CV1 last month. I think the Dev Kit (DK1 and DK2) versions were partly supported, but it could have been through some 3rd party apps. Not sure, sorry.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Wraith_TMS on June 29, 2016, 06:53:46 PM
Relevant to this discussion:
HTC (the "other" HTC :neener:) announces creation of a $10 Billion venture capital fund alliance aimed at AR and VR startups and ventures: http://uploadvr.com/htc-announces-vrvca/ (http://uploadvr.com/htc-announces-vrvca/)
HTC (yes... the "other" HTC...) spins the Vive off into its own division: http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-tech-corporation-vr-subsidary/ (http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-tech-corporation-vr-subsidary/)
I'd "venture" :D that VR is not a passing fad. Time will tell, but money talks too.
FWIW,
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 29, 2016, 11:34:38 PM
War Thunder? Yes. Supported as of last month per the previous post.
IL2:Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow? Yes as of this week's update (v2.002). Currently basic support for Vive. See entry #2 here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?p=367267 (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?p=367267)
IL2 Cliffs of Dover? Planned support with TF 5.0 roll-out later this year. Oculus and Vive should work. More info: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356 (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356)
Rise of Flight? Last I heard support is not planned. I suppose there is hope given IL2:BoS is based off the same graphics engine with updated features.
Good to hear AH is jumping on the bandwagon too. It certainly seems to be the future. Still a bit to new and expensive for me to take the leap, but I expect I will once the 2nd generation headsets start to roll out.
Hope that helps. :salute
there is also in development a new flight sim game for online, multiplayers, that is being put together because of the emergence of VR. It will prolly be AH3's only true competitor............................
A question, when wearing a VR rig, if I look back over my shoulder, I mean really turn my head, is the view gonna pan around? or will I still look ahead and use a view high hat arrangement?
I promise if you got a 60" curved LCD or 4K HDTV, set it up 3ft away, you will get some game immersion as well.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Invictus84 on June 29, 2016, 11:59:08 PM
there is also in development a new flight sim game for online, multiplayers, that is being put together because of the emergence of VR. It will prolly be AH3's only true competitor............................
In what way?
While War Thunder has a different style, it is still a online air combat game like AH which boasts a far larger user base. Both Cliffs and Battle of Stalingrad have online servers which peak out to nearly the same number of players (80 to 100) the MA tends to sport these days. Both have more complex flight models than AH.
Not a knock on AH. It has unique features to differenciate itself from these other games, but I seriously doubt that's enough to state these games are not "true" competitors.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 30, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
servers with 400+ capability. My experience with war blunder, IL 2 were with player limited servers, 16, 32......I hated this. I beta tested WoW, I flew IL 2 on an air racing server which was fun as hell.
AH is unique in that it fits the term massive multiplayer, FA used to, AW prolly did as well. My first year in AH saw real bomber flights, real numbers.....
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Invictus84 on June 30, 2016, 12:16:06 AM
IL2 Cliffs of Dover has servers with a capacity of 100. Peak weekend hours usually see that fully populated. BoS has an 85 player limit, but same applies. Not apples to apples, but not apples to bananas either. More like Green apples to Red apples...or a Pear. :)
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 30, 2016, 09:38:02 AM
http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-build-a-vr-pc/
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Shuffler on June 30, 2016, 01:03:13 PM
While War Thunder has a different style, it is still a online air combat game like AH which boasts a far larger user base. Both Cliffs and Battle of Stalingrad have online servers which peak out to nearly the same number of players (80 to 100) the MA tends to sport these days. Both have more complex flight models than AH.
Not a knock on AH. It has unique features to differenciate itself from these other games, but I seriously doubt that's enough to state these games are not "true" competitors.
Their flight models in no way compare to AH. Just because you adjutant more means nothing if your FM is off.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Wiley on June 30, 2016, 01:05:51 PM
Their flight models in no way compare to AH. Just because you adjutant more means nothing if your FM is off.
The problem is, most people are happy with different planes handling differently as opposed to having a better FM like here. Obviously, it does mean something because it works and draws in more players.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Shuffler on June 30, 2016, 01:41:42 PM
The problem is, most people are happy with different planes handling differently as opposed to having a better FM like here. Obviously, it does mean something because it works and draws in more players.
Wiley.
The planes should handle differently..... as they do in AH. That is the better flight model.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Wiley on June 30, 2016, 01:50:25 PM
The planes should handle differently..... as they do in AH. That is the better flight model.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
And... in WT you have slow and turny, and fast and less turny, and various different levels of firepower. That's enough for many, many people apparently.
Wiley.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: MADe on June 30, 2016, 02:14:19 PM
Android N Its gonna have a VR mode designed in.
Title: Re: The next wave of players: AH3 and VR headsets?
Post by: Invictus84 on June 30, 2016, 08:00:08 PM
Their flight models in no way compare to AH. Just because you adjutant more means nothing if your FM is off.
I grant you are correct if you are referring to War Thunder. If you are suggesting the AH FM is better than either of the IL2 games mentioned then I would have to strongly disagree. But we have digressed enough from the original topic.