Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Randy1 on June 29, 2016, 01:02:00 PM
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This new AI program beat one of the best combat pilots.
https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/28/combat-ai-beats-air-force-experts/
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Do you want Skynet? Because this is how you get Skynet!
Wiley.
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Hitech added AI fighters to the game. There are in the missions and we're to be part of the "combat tour" version of the game. The original AI were unbeatable and had to be turned down a bit.
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Do you want Skynet? Because this is how you get Skynet!
Wiley.
This. Bad.
(https://m.popkey.co/a971df/DoJGq.gif)
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Early on during the closed alpha testing of AI missions, I ran into an F4u that I thought was a muppet who had taken a human slot in the American side of the mission. I thought my A6m would simply out turn the F4u and the fight would be over. The AI are so perfect the F4u was out turning my A6m. I survived long enough that the mission carried me to the next waypoint. I checked the arena and I had been the only human in the mission.
Another disturbing thing for casual players will be the programing that has the fighters fly as winged pairs. The AI fly winged like we read about from WW2 with the appearance of basic strategy. We want to fly solo and be the winged samurai and all that nonsense, which will work for a small percentage of our vets against the AI. Not sure if Hitech has each AI running a heuristics routine to learn you as the fight progresses.
If the AI fighters don't get toned way down for the newbies AH3 is trying to attract, just like in the MA over run with 10,000hr joystick time vets, the AI missions are going to scare them away. Bomber formations and their laser beam guns were easier to deal with than many of those AI fighters. Especially gaggles of them because your AI fighter country men split up into matchups with the AI and ignore helping you. Unless you bring your own human wing man, you are really 1v gaggle even if you are part of a gaggle of green icon AI.
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its trivial to make a "perfect" AI ie, pull the tightest turn without stalling, perfect aim, etc,etc the hard part is making an AI seem human by making mistakes.
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I have fought the AI planes ans while they are very good I found they tended to bail if you got any hits,most human players would have fought on with a damaged plane but the AI would not.
Ideally I would like to see 3 levels of AI,pro,intermediate and NOOB.... :devil Wingmen could be paired so you would have several combinations but ultimately I would prefer to fight another human.
Maybe I should say,when I feel up to fighting I would prefer it against a human,but I do see a value in having AI fill in and/or be used for practice.
Would be nice if a trainer could select the plane and level of AI to help players understand and learn the basics of dogfighting.
:salute
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Trainer's AI arena where the new student fly's with a Trainer against AI that the Trainer can administer how the AI will present themselves. Even a toggle feature where the AI ignores the Trainer while the Trainer coaches the student near by. Add to that an AI mode for gunnery training only, so the student only worries about learning gunnery with the help of the Trainer. Some of this could be accomplished by the Trainer riding along coaching inside of the cockpit.
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Great idea Bustr! :aok
Although I find little value in riding along,as you dont see many things when in the "backseat".
The ignore player X would be great so you could hoover above a fight,watch and comment without influencing the fight!
:salute
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It would help KingPin to see what his student is seeing when the student misses his shots.
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It would help KingPin to see what his student is seeing when the student misses his shots.
Except he cant see the tracers or know when the player was shooting.... :furious You also cant see control inputs and that's why I seldom do it,I prefer to zoom in and watch from close up. Of course that just me I'm sure others might prefer to ride along! :aok
:salute
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AI needs to be changed to publicly insult you whenever you shoot it down
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Morfiend,
At least if I ride along and the player has the same gunsight I have loaded for the given plane. By being on a bit of zoom, I can tell the player if he will hit or miss by the reticle relationship to the con. Now with the new IAS\Alt HUD display, I wonder if mine will work while doing a ride along. Then I'm kind of the weird one around here and went through all those years of researching gunsights, reticle patterns, and obtaining the gunnery manuals. I used to include the manuals in my historic package download. Did any of you Trainers keep copies of the manuals to issue to new troops? Or am I still he who shall not be mentioned in Trainer land?? :lol
Funny how barring the internet lag, everything from the gunnery manuals works exactly as written 70 years ago in our game today.
Oh!! :O my gunnery training terrain for AH3 is ready to go when AH3 goes live. You can spawn osti\wirbel\M16 within 500yds of drones and use the lead computing gunsight to understand leading cons. Around that spawn is a manned ack 37mm and 88mm. Then I have 88mm set so you can learn 7000yd shooting at the drones.
There are two tank firing ranges with static tanks set out all over the place to learn the tank optics. Along with an 88 and 17lb at each firing line. One range is 4000yds with tanks set for 500yd range calibration to 4000yd. The other is 4 miles with static tanks randomly everywhere with mile markers.
I have two Hogan Ally setups, one is the tank town 4mile square object in the new NDisles. The other is the new town object from AH3. I have tanks hidden all over them so once you spawn in you can practice seeing them hidden in the trees and in or around buildings.
There are three task forces. Two sail near each other for ship to ship gunnery practice. One sails a very squiggly course to practice bombing against maneuvering CV. Both ports have numerous PT spawns to catch the task groups for torpedo practice. And Many shore batteries to practice shore to ship gunnery.
There is one small airfield with fighter and bomber air spawns to take advantage of the task groups with torpedo runs and bombing runs. 15,000ft level bombing and fighters starting 3000ft above the drones to dive in for instant drone chasing. The torpedo bomber or B25H air spawns are at 1250ft near the line of travel for the task groups. There is a 12,000ft fighter air spawn to practice jabo attacks on the task forces. I got really tired of the wasted time offline you spend climbing to test things. I suspect anyone decades younger than I will have proportionally less patience for it offline while it took me 14 years to get this tired of it. :cool:
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AI needs to be changed to publicly insult you whenever you shoot it down
:rofl :rofl
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I would not like to see all of the AI dumbed down to newby level. I've been away from any real fighting for a long time and plan to get some practice in , in the fall against the AI. Hopefully they aren't useless for that by then.
Ideally I would like to see 3 levels of AI,pro,intermediate and NOOB.... :devil Wingmen could be paired so you would have several combinations but ultimately I would prefer to fight another human.
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Morfiend,
At least if I ride along and the player has the same gunsight I have loaded for the given plane. By being on a bit of zoom,
Are you talking about the current joining feature in AH2? If you join someone, the picture you see on your display will never be the exact picture the person you joined see. Computer lag, network lag, and all that tech stuff make it impossible for the two of you to see the exact same display. It can be very very close, but not the exact same thing.
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It's close enough if you understand the 100mph principle, the player has the same 100Mil reticle you do, and how WW2 gunnery works. And it's painfully obvious in the TA if your own or the other player's connection is having a bad night. Then worst case, you ask him to film his whole shooting session, then you watch and give him a critique. And try another night hopefully when the internet is better for a ride along.
This is all predicated on the discussion Morf and I just had about "if" Hitech were to create an AH3 AI augmented TA that the Trainers would have admin rights to setup shooting Training scenarios with the AI. Then ride along with the student to watch their shooting in progress. Except unlike WW2 fixed gunnery training, the AI themselves would take the place of towed flags or, A-N gun camera only when you pulled the trigger against a P40 during the last 2 weeks of advanced training.
The live feedback even with a bit of lag would go a long way, since the Trainer is supposed to know enough about the game to have a good idea what the out come will be from what he is watching through the shared reticle. So beyond this point, if you have a problem, argue the what ifs with Morfiend and the other Trainers.
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This AI Training Arena has merit.
More thought should be put into this. Once AHII is hot then this can be brought up for discussion with Dale and crew.
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AI needs to be changed to publicly insult you whenever you shoot it down
after killing 10 of them in a beta mission and being spawned back out of time when I wanted to get another one I was furious and called them out for warping back to their home field. Chickens.
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This new AI program beat one of the best combat pilots.
https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/28/combat-ai-beats-air-force-experts/
If you want a scientific paper instead of a clickbait article:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,380023.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,380023.0.html)