Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: oboe on January 12, 2017, 02:48:20 PM

Title: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 12, 2017, 02:48:20 PM
A while ago a returning player gave a fairly harsh critique of AH3, saying among other things that the graphics or colors were visually assaulting.  That stuck with me, and I believe one of the things he could have been referring to is the clipboard map:
(http://i.imgur.com/1NNsnL8.jpg)

For kicks, I made an attempt at reducing the clutter and busyness of the map above.  I reduced the saturation and opacity of the land layer, changed the ocean color to be more consistent with a typical physical map, with coastal shallows depicted as a lighter shade of blue.  I reduced the color saturation and size of all the map icons and removed the chess piece graphic because it has such a DOS-character set look to it and its redundant anyway; the color of the icon being an indication of the owning country.  Radar coverage areas are shown shaded now rather that white circles.   I chose a simple sans serif font for a cleaner look, and the labels are more tightly placed to the icons.

The map below shows all of the the same information displayed on the original above, it's the same scale and area shown.   The reduction in icon and label font size think helped the readability a lot:

(http://i.imgur.com/Nj4VnTb.jpg)

I guess my wish would be for a more map-like clipboard map, with a less cluttered look.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Wiley on January 12, 2017, 02:53:38 PM
I am in favor of something along this line. +1  I have adjusted to the new icons etc but I must say I am not a fan of the style.  It is cluttered and difficult to parse and just IMO doesn't look good.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: 100Coogn on January 12, 2017, 02:55:13 PM
Very nice.
I like how the base info/alt is outlined in black.  Makes it much easier to read.

Coogan  :aok
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: alkali on January 12, 2017, 02:56:02 PM
Most stunning difference indeed <S>.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Devil 505 on January 12, 2017, 03:09:43 PM
I like it alot. But the side icons is a necessary evil. Unless the map can coded to put a suffix to the base name. IE: A1 be comes  A1B, A1K, or A1R.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: hitech on January 12, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
While I understand your suggestion "I like the radar display" your text & icon size are non starters. For me to read the text I had to make your map full screen.

Normally the clip board map is taking up less the 1/2 the vertical height of the screen.

HiTech
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Dobs on January 12, 2017, 03:26:08 PM
OR a simple legend: ROOK =  ORANGE, Knights =YELLOW in this case.  Where the color name is just a Bar (couldn't make that happen in here)
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Dobs on January 12, 2017, 03:27:12 PM
Anyway to make map icon FONT size a constant sized font? Or is that coding nightmare?
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: JimmyD3 on January 12, 2017, 03:34:01 PM
A minor thing here, but the Spawn point color (yellow) does not contrast enough with the map background making it hard to read sometimes.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: popeye on January 12, 2017, 03:37:11 PM
Don't think the sector numbers need to be quite so prominent, but that's just a font size change.

How would you indicate disabled radar?  As it is now, a red radar circle indicates that it is disabled, but still shows where the "flash-the-base" boundary is.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: hitech on January 12, 2017, 03:43:37 PM
Anyway to make map icon FONT size a constant sized font? Or is that coding nightmare?

Define constant size? Because I can think of at least 3 definitions.

1. Al lways the same size on screen.
2. All ways the same size relative to the clip board.
3. All ways the same size relative to the map.

Currently they are a combination of 2 & 3
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Wiley on January 12, 2017, 03:49:19 PM
The main improvements in the above I see are the black outline around the font, the lack of a line on the dar ring, and the size of the icons.  Shrinking the map icons alone would IMO be an enormous improvement, regardless of if the font  size never changed.  Another solution, make the font and font size adjustable?

Wiley.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Wiley on January 12, 2017, 03:54:43 PM
How would you indicate disabled radar?  As it is now, a red radar circle indicates that it is disabled, but still shows where the "flash-the-base" boundary is.

Different color?  Customizable for both?

Wiley.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 12, 2017, 04:01:24 PM
Define constant size? Because I can think of at least 3 definitions.

1. Al lways the same size on screen.
2. All ways the same size relative to the clip board.
3. All ways the same size relative to the map.

Currently they are a combination of 2 & 3

From my testing, I would have guessed it was option #1.   I took screen shots of the clipboard at 3 different map zoom levels - one fully zoomed out, one at about the same zoom as the sample maps above, and one zoomed almost all the way in.  In each case, the physical space in the image taken up by the airfield label "A118" was 57x19 pixels...I think a label that would change its physical size in response to the zoom level might solve the readability issue - you just zoom in until its readable.  Or allowing users to change font and size of the labels themselves could work too?

For reference, I shrunk the map icons 50% from their original size.



Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: hitech on January 12, 2017, 04:16:36 PM
I did not read his request corectly, I was referring to the icons zoom.

Font size is #2 always ,same size relative to the clip board.

HiTech
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 12, 2017, 04:28:14 PM
Well anyway thanks for weighing in, Hitech.  Maybe using #3 for fonts would solve the readability size issue - you just zoom in until its big enough to read comfortably.  I imagine everyone has their own method that works for them...
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 12, 2017, 06:45:48 PM
A while ago a returning player gave a fairly harsh critique of AH3, saying among other things that the graphics or colors were visually assaulting.  That stuck with me, and I believe one of the things he could have been referring to is the clipboard map:
(http://i.imgur.com/1NNsnL8.jpg)

For kicks, I made an attempt at reducing the clutter and busyness of the map above.  I reduced the saturation and opacity of the land layer, changed the ocean color to be more consistent with a typical physical map, with coastal shallows depicted as a lighter shade of blue.  I reduced the color saturation and size of all the map icons and removed the chess piece graphic because it has such a DOS-character set look to it and its redundant anyway; the color of the icon being an indication of the owning country.  Radar coverage areas are shown shaded now rather that white circles.   I chose a simple sans serif font for a cleaner look, and the labels are more tightly placed to the icons.

The map below shows all of the the same information displayed on the original above, it's the same scale and area shown.   The reduction in icon and label font size think helped the readability a lot:

(http://i.imgur.com/Nj4VnTb.jpg)

I guess my wish would be for a more map-like clipboard map, with a less cluttered look.

MASSIVE +1.

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 12, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
While I understand your suggestion "I like the radar display" your text & icon size are non starters. For me to read the text I had to make your map full screen.

Normally the clip board map is taking up less the 1/2 the vertical height of the screen.

HiTech

Full screen should be an option any way, I think.    Best of both worlds.   With bunched up bases having ONLY the clipboard to read is cumbersome sometimes...

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Randy1 on January 13, 2017, 05:43:50 AM
Reading base names has always been hard on some maps and or parts of maps in ah2 and now in ah3.

A +1 for any fix. 

About half the time I have to right click on the field to read the name.  Changing colors on some maps works and others it makes it worse.

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Ratsy on January 13, 2017, 10:29:30 AM
+1 on the wish.  The example presented is a development target.  Simple.  Please start moving towards it.

Stunning and professional looking.

 :salute

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 13, 2017, 12:05:03 PM
Thank you for the kind words, guys.

Another idea I have for the clipboard map is a "Tooltip"-type information box that would pop up if you hover your cursor over a field.  This tooltip box could contain status about the field, but only show those items which are disabled.

Currently if you place the cursor over a field, right click and select "A75 Status" from the popup selection list - you get a full report on everything regarding the field, country, HQ status, etc - and then you have to click to "close" when you're done.

I think it'd be much faster to just hover the cursor over the field and have the pop up box identify what's down at a field - that's usually what we're most interested in anyway - are Vehicles or Fighters still up, are Troops available, etc.    And then it disappears automatically when you move the cursor off the field icon.  A much faster and more efficient way to get information about fields in the conflict area:

(http://i.imgur.com/IABl01a.jpg)

<S>
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: popeye on January 13, 2017, 01:01:47 PM
nevermind...
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2017, 02:24:19 PM
Thank you for the kind words, guys.

Another idea I have for the clipboard map is a "Tooltip"-type information box that would pop up if you hover your cursor over a field.  This tooltip box could contain status about the field, but only show those items which are disabled.

Currently if you place the cursor over a field, right click and select "A75 Status" from the popup selection list - you get a full report on everything regarding the field, country, HQ status, etc - and then you have to click to "close" when you're done.

I think it'd be much faster to just hover the cursor over the field and have the pop up box identify what's down at a field - that's usually what we're most interested in anyway - are Vehicles or Fighters still up, are Troops available, etc.    And then it disappears automatically when you move the cursor off the field icon.  A much faster and more efficient way to get information about fields in the conflict area:

(http://i.imgur.com/IABl01a.jpg)

<S>

I like it!!!

+1
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: alkali on January 13, 2017, 02:31:21 PM
+1 for the proposition. Would be a major improvement on the actual clipboard map.
<S>
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: caldera on January 13, 2017, 02:42:05 PM
Thank you for the kind words, guys.

Another idea I have for the clipboard map is a "Tooltip"-type information box that would pop up if you hover your cursor over a field.  This tooltip box could contain status about the field, but only show those items which are disabled.

Currently if you place the cursor over a field, right click and select "A75 Status" from the popup selection list - you get a full report on everything regarding the field, country, HQ status, etc - and then you have to click to "close" when you're done.

I think it'd be much faster to just hover the cursor over the field and have the pop up box identify what's down at a field - that's usually what we're most interested in anyway - are Vehicles or Fighters still up, are Troops available, etc.    And then it disappears automatically when you move the cursor off the field icon.  A much faster and more efficient way to get information about fields in the conflict area:

(http://i.imgur.com/IABl01a.jpg)

<S>

The shaded radar coverage would be far less cluttered than the radar rings we have.  One change I would prefer is to make the areas lighter, rather than darker.  This would signify that radar on is like having the lights on and also would provide more contrast to icons, making them more visible.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: 1ijac on January 13, 2017, 05:09:42 PM
The dark outlining around base labeling text is a big plus to me.  I find it hard to read sometimes depending on the background color of the terrain. 
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 14, 2017, 09:08:59 AM
Don't think the sector numbers need to be quite so prominent, but that's just a font size change.

How would you indicate disabled radar?  As it is now, a red radar circle indicates that it is disabled, but still shows where the "flash-the-base" boundary is.

I didn't mean to ignore this question, Popeye.  I would probably advocate for an empty (non-shaded) ring around the base if the radar is down.  But the outline color of the ring should be subtle.  Maybe a line of the same color as the shading.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: hitech on January 17, 2017, 12:11:08 PM
Hmm

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=384436.0;attach=26479)
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Lazerr on January 17, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Very cool..

May be a good idea to keep the three letter abbreviation the same as the dot downtime command?  Dont think its a big deal either way, folks should get the idea.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: bustr on January 17, 2017, 01:03:09 PM
Hitech has anyone lately told you that you are a rock star??
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 17, 2017, 01:18:02 PM
 :aok

He codes it in less time than it takes me to do a mockup.   Also, great idea to show town status in the tooltip pop up.  Very important info to know!

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Zardoz on January 17, 2017, 01:37:35 PM
Hitech has anyone lately told you that you are a rock star??

 :salute
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Wiley on January 17, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
Looks very cool.  What does a radar that's down look like?

Wiley.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: hitech on January 17, 2017, 02:28:56 PM
Looks very cool.  What does a radar that's down look like?

Wiley.

Red circle instead of black.

Also the Field Numbers fade out as you zoom out the map when they would start drawing over each other.

There was also a bug fix that was making the icons displaying 1.75 times larger on line then off line. The offline size was the correct size.

HiTech
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 17, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
Hmm

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=384436.0;attach=26479)

Fargin' awesome!!!!
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 17, 2017, 02:50:04 PM
:aok

He codes it in less time than it takes me to do a mockup.   Also, great idea to show town status in the tooltip pop up.  Very important info to know!

Crazy ain't it?
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: caldera on January 17, 2017, 03:03:34 PM
Hmm

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=384436.0;attach=26479)

Could you make those circles brighter, instead of darker?
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: 100Coogn on January 17, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Just installed Patch #16.
Clipboard looks really nice.  Easier to read. 

Coogan  :aok
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 17, 2017, 03:39:22 PM
Just installed Patch #16.
Clipboard looks really nice.  Easier to read. 

Coogan  :aok

Agreed.  This is a thousand times better.  Only thing I would tweak is possibly lightening them by 5 or 10 percent.  But a GREAT improvement.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: oboe on January 17, 2017, 05:29:54 PM
Was just online and people are sure talking about the change to radar!  Some like it and some don't <shrug>.  One even thinks the clipboard map looks more cluttered now.  :O

The popup field info box works well, and with the fieldnames fading out now I find I'm spending more time with the map zoomed out - I'm getting the big picture of what's going on in game across the whole map.

On my in-game screen, the shading appears darker than the screenshot you've posted.   I'm running default graphics options with gamma at defautl (1.0?) I think the lighter shading in your screenshot looks better. 

Is there any way to make the shaded circles not additive?  One concern I heard is when the radar coverage from two adjacent bases overlap, if both have radar out (shading=red), the additive nature of the shading makes it harder to see the red dar bars against the shaded area.

Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: bustr on January 18, 2017, 12:18:50 AM
POTW had generally the same response tonight, dark areas are too dark, oboe's original sea through blue would be better. And destroyed dar would work better as a red ring with no color fill. The map just got too dark overall due to the density of radar overlap and was almost unreadable and my gamma is 1.5. How the fonts and icons work when zooming is great.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Bruv119 on January 18, 2017, 05:26:13 AM
POTW had generally the same response tonight, dark areas are too dark, oboe's original sea through blue would be better. And destroyed dar would work better as a red ring with no color fill. The map just got too dark overall due to the density of radar overlap and was almost unreadable and my gamma is 1.5. How the fonts and icons work when zooming is great.

red ring or  nothing at all   that way looking at the map you can see a path through the radar because it is light.   

the red is confusing with the red sector counter.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: popeye on January 18, 2017, 07:42:37 AM
red ring or  nothing at all   that way looking at the map you can see a path through the radar because it is light.   

the red is confusing with the red sector counter.

The issue with no dar ring at all is that you can't see the "flash-the-base" boundary.
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Lazerr on January 18, 2017, 10:38:28 AM
The zoom fade touch is awesome
Title: Re: Clipboard map
Post by: Vraciu on January 18, 2017, 12:41:01 PM
The zoom fade touch is awesome

+1