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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Max on January 23, 2017, 06:58:05 PM

Title: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Max on January 23, 2017, 06:58:05 PM
Can't be that hard...can it?
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: DubiousKB on January 24, 2017, 09:05:37 AM
Having 24x.50's plus another 12x.50's converging at 600 isn't enough? 

You're talking every gun position can be filled by a human gunner? You don't think 999000 is lethal enough?  :uhoh
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Zimme83 on January 24, 2017, 09:16:24 AM
I would like to have a mode where you can fire all guns on a single plane, most of the time the drones are just wasting ammo.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: guncrasher on January 24, 2017, 09:33:26 AM
I would like to have a mode where you can fire all guns on a single plane, most of the time the drones are just wasting ammo.

999 has all the guns hitting you


Semp
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: BuckShot on January 24, 2017, 09:39:42 AM
+1

If I get as many kills as there are human gunners plus the pilot.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Sabre on January 24, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
Can't be that hard...can it?
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly are you advocating for? Also, what does "999000", referenced by DubiousKB, refer to? Thanks.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Zimme83 on January 24, 2017, 11:05:14 AM
999000 is kind of a legend when it comes to buffs and anyone foolish enough to approach his bombers will be punnished by death. Havermyr is the other, stay away from his ki-67:s...
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: whiteman on January 24, 2017, 11:32:58 AM
I thought 999000 was a program.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: DubiousKB on January 24, 2017, 12:10:12 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly are you advocating for? Also, what does "999000", referenced by DubiousKB, refer to? Thanks.

999000 is a B17 pilot/gunner you do NOT want to find... More often than not, he HIMSELF makes the formation "Death Stars" and will shoot you down in a hurry.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: DubiousKB on January 24, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
a simple ammo conservation trick i've learned is to use the waist gunners on each outside drone to "range" or test fire shots on targets you think you might be able to "touch"... that way you're only using waist gunner ammo to "test the waters"....  Get a few pings, fire a short burst of all guns....

I don't think one should be able to only fire drone 1 all guns, or lead aircraft all guns only...

Basically, they are powerful enough in my opinion...
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Ramesis on January 24, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
Soooo... why could AW do it?
Granted AW was less graphic intensive but...
 :D
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: hitech on January 24, 2017, 02:29:40 PM
Soooo... why could AW do it?
Granted AW was less graphic intensive but...
 :D

They did not have the ability to fire all guns from 1 position.

HiTech
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Becinhu on January 24, 2017, 02:55:23 PM
999000 is the guy who flies b17s INTO a furball. De acks and drops town from 1000 feet. It's not a flight of 17s it's a space station. If you think large base ack is bad fly up 999s six, he will reeducate you


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Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: bustr on January 24, 2017, 03:26:02 PM
In AW my squad and some vets I knew would fill a B17 when we got bored. Then we would sneak over to an enemy field and roar down the runway at say 100ft or however low our pilot felt that night. We would kill everyone sitting on the ground, climb up and orbit the field waiting to orbit vulch everyone climbing up to get us. We only made it home once but, it cost them dearly each time. And one time we ran into an enemy B17 heading to our field to do the same thing. So we dueled B17's with full manned gun positions, it was a slow death by 1000 cuts between two spastic whales.:O

Hitech could always impose one pilot one gunner for formations allowing a full roster for a single bomber. Man you could depopulate a whole country for a 49er's bomber mission just to have all the gunner positions filled.

Dude, there are no planes in the rook country and a full roster, and no ENY. Don't worry about it, means we can capture rook bases all night. The 49er's convinced those fools to be gunners again... :rofl
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 24, 2017, 04:47:31 PM
Soooo... why could AW do it?
Granted AW was less graphic intensive but...
 :D

In AW you needed to have all the gun positions manned for a Death Star and you were really lucky if you or someone else didn't get discoed as a result of crewing a Death Star.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: caldera on January 24, 2017, 05:55:03 PM
999000 is the guy who flies b17s INTO a furball. De acks and drops town from 1000 feet. It's not a flight of 17s it's a space station. If you think large base ack is bad fly up 999s six, he will reeducate you


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There is a reason for this.  Being that low makes a proper top down attack much more dangerous and harder to recover energy for.  When he flies higher, he is not nearly as dangerous.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Drano on January 24, 2017, 08:46:04 PM
But the deathstar missions were a blast. Shame it was in the time before video. Too funny.


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Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Oldman731 on January 24, 2017, 09:16:09 PM
But the deathstar missions were a blast. Shame it was in the time before video. Too funny.

Party goon trips to watch grudge 1v1s were also enjoyable.

- oldman
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Zacherof on January 25, 2017, 09:42:05 AM
There is a reason for this.  Being that low makes a proper top down attack much more dangerous and harder to recover energy for.  When he flies higher, he is not nearly as dangerous.
That's when you need to pre plan and set your self up to hit him from the side, making for a smaller target profile and aim more important for critical damage. Aim for cockpit or rudder gents. The  egress in a direction to make a repeat attack of neccasary but be wary of his flight path as you do so as he is sneaky.

Or a head on which makes for a closure speed anywhere from 500-900 mph and a wide open target to kill the pilot. But the same can be done to you.


Also add these to your bomber killing toolbox.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: caldera on January 25, 2017, 11:32:15 AM
That's when you need to pre plan and set your self up to hit him from the side, making for a smaller target profile and aim more important for critical damage. Aim for cockpit or rudder gents. The  egress in a direction to make a repeat attack of neccasary but be wary of his flight path as you do so as he is sneaky.

Or a head on which makes for a closure speed anywhere from 500-900 mph and a wide open target to kill the pilot. But the same can be done to you.


Also add these to your bomber killing toolbox.

He will just turn if you set up a beam attack, putting you in the rear quarter.  And that still doesn't address the risk of pancaking.  If you drop down at high speed, you can't really extend out underneath.  Your approach has to be absolutely perfect or you will auger or not have enough speed for a quick recovery for the next pass. 

That's why 999 and Finetime fly low like that.  The terrain and altitude will limit your approach and speed.  Many experienced bomber pilots dive to the deck when they are in trouble.  It routinely forces an approach from the rear quarter.

Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: save on January 25, 2017, 03:04:55 PM
To me the b26s are much more of a threat imo. when at full speed closure take ages unless you dive on it or HO it, and better damage than the b17 imo, they also outturn a fw190a8 when they down to one plane, with or without bombs.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Becinhu on January 25, 2017, 06:18:31 PM
To me the b26s are much more of a threat imo. when at full speed closure take ages unless you dive on it or HO it, and better damage than the b17 imo, they also outturn a fw190a8 when they down to one plane, with or without bombs.


There is also a "trick" with 26s. Everyone tries to attack from underneath, but you can make that attack just as dangerous with autoclimb. A 26 will stand on its tail for over 1000 ft. That guy that just started a zoom climb underneath you is now directly in your gunsights from the tail. If I have a single con chasing 26s I will slow down for them.


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Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Ramesis on January 26, 2017, 01:14:57 PM
They did not have the ability to fire all guns from 1 position.

HiTech
I wasn't advocating 1 position  firing all guns  :headscratch:
I was asking, deathstars were available in AW and so hard would
it be to program them into AH?
 
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: hitech on January 26, 2017, 01:50:11 PM
I wasn't advocating 1 position  firing all guns  :headscratch:
I was asking, deathstars were available in AW and so hard would
it be to program them into AH?

You ask why AW could and we don't.

The huge difference is that in AH is the 1 gunner controls and fires all the guns at once.

HiTech

Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Tilt on January 26, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
AH already has Death stars all guns are manned......

AW lag in a death star was chronic.......if you ever went to a UK AW con and were able to watch the B17 pilot and its rear gunner operate side by side ....it was more then a second delay between the pilots manoeuvre and it happening on the gunners FE.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: The Fugitive on January 26, 2017, 04:32:45 PM
I wasn't advocating 1 position  firing all guns  :headscratch:
I was asking, deathstars were available in AW and so hard would
it be to program them into AH?

That was the choice, have one guy man ALL guns, or have a bunch of guys man one gun. It was decided that one guy manning all guns was the way to go. This way you dont NEED to beg for a bunch of guys to man your guns
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: bustr on January 26, 2017, 05:49:07 PM
Death stars would become the next reason why you wouldn't find anyone to fight against. You would have too few guys flying bombers for all the guys wanting to be crew, so party drivers would emerge so guys could grief runways. The first time you NOE onto the end of a runway and vulched a just spawned player, it would be worth getting whacked. Just think about a small field with everything down but the fighter hanger, with all the fighter guys begging the bomber guys on station to take them on board after they auger so they can death star vulch the runway.
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: save on January 27, 2017, 10:13:01 AM
It looks to me like if you get hit, all the guns hit from all planes in the bomberset hit you with all that can shoot.
For a B17 set that is really devastating even 1.5k out.

The attacking fighter have to half that distance to have any hope of downing a bomber.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


You ask why AW could and we don't.

The huge difference is that in AH is the 1 gunner controls and fires all the guns at once.

HiTech
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: hitech on January 27, 2017, 10:15:25 AM
It looks to me like if you get hit, all the guns hit from all planes in the bomberset hit you with all that can shoot.
For a B17 set that is really devastating even 1.5k out.

The attacking fighter have to half that distance to have any hope of downing a bomber.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are incorrect. The guns do not all shoot at the same point.

HiTech
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: save on January 27, 2017, 10:22:56 AM
Thanks for your answer HT, do the bombers have longer effective range than the fighters ?


Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Zimme83 on January 27, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
No but bomber gunners dont need to maneuver in order to adjust fire and the fighter almost always expose its most vulnerable parts to the bomber guns while the fighter is making holes in the rear of the bomber.

And at convergence range a fighter attacking a set of B-17 will take fire from up to 18x .50 cal mg, a split second burst will tear the fighter apart...
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: hitech on January 27, 2017, 12:02:05 PM
Thanks for your answer HT, do the bombers have longer effective range than the fighters ?

Yes an no and sorta.

I have to look but which have which but there are 2 50cal version short barrel and long barrel. Long barrels have slight higher mussel velocity.

But the big difference you notice is that when a gun is shooting backwards vs forwards on a moving object, the apparent range is much longer on the backward firing gun.

HiTech
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: bustr on January 27, 2017, 03:42:17 PM
B17 level flight 14,500 ft.

Nose 50 cal - 1190yds
Tail 50 cal   - 1250yds
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Scca on January 30, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
They aren't all that bad...  I think TU's and B-26's are more dangerous. 

Aim for the outer wing tips.  Break them off, and the plane starts to tumble.  Often you can get two on one pass because they start flopping around, can't hit you.  Approach from the dead six, and you'll realize why they call it "dead" six. 
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: hitech on January 30, 2017, 10:18:10 AM
Also with the .wingman command , think what 7 guns in tight formation could do? Now we are talking death blossom.

HiTech
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: captain1ma on January 30, 2017, 12:11:20 PM
They aren't all that bad...  I think TU's and B-26's are more dangerous. 

Aim for the outer wing tips.  Break them off, and the plane starts to tumble.  Often you can get two on one pass because they start flopping around, can't hit you.  Approach from the dead six, and you'll realize why they call it "dead" six.

and if 999000 is flying it, your dead at D1500!!
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Zimme83 on January 30, 2017, 12:34:30 PM
Also with the .wingman command , think what 7 guns in tight formation could do? Now we are talking death blossom.

HiTech

Shown during the first 12 hour scenario. over 30 sets (~100 bombers) in tight formation. a lot of attackers made only one pass...

(on the other hand the scenario showed that unescorted bombers are turkey shoots for fighters that attacks in formation, it is impossible for the bomber pilots to track and shoot at all attackers.)
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: Scca on January 30, 2017, 01:59:53 PM
and if 999000 is flying it, your dead at D1500!!
Yes, he's a tough one.  He's the DR7 of bombers.  I remember one time I was in a Tempest and popped a B-17, it was 999000.  Considered deeply if I should go back for another pass...  The lesson learned that day, if you have patience, and do it right, bombers taste like chicken.  :)
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: EagleDNY on January 30, 2017, 08:52:29 PM
The lesson learned that day, if you have patience, and do it right, bombers taste like chicken.  :)

Sometimes those 18 .50 cals can make it Kung POW Chicken...
Title: Re: B-17 Deathstars
Post by: RODBUSTR on January 31, 2017, 12:49:16 PM
MOST Of the TIME I ONLY FIRE FROM 1 STATION .  A SLIDING CONVERGENCE  LIKE  THE C V BUTTONS ON RANGES WOULD be nice