Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on February 12, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
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Anybody in that area? Getting mixed news what is going on. Latest report is that area wide emergency evacuation, spillway already failed. Pray for the safety of the people to get out if things are really that bad.
https://www.metabunk.org/oroville-dam-spillway-failure.t8381/ (https://www.metabunk.org/oroville-dam-spillway-failure.t8381/)
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Apparently concrete was missing from the Dam.
Is this expensive in the US concrete i mean?
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Apparently concrete was missing from the Dam.
Is this expensive in the US concrete i mean?
You mean the spillway.
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I live north of Oroville. There is an evacuation order in effect for a large area south of Lake Oroville. The main spillway had a large hole appear in it's face several days ago. Water release rates were reduced while the damage was being inspected. Unfortunately it rained heavily until Friday and water started over the emergency spillway which has never been used in the 48 years the dam has been in service. Saturday they noticed that the top of the emergency spillway was being eroded. They then increased flow out of the main spillway to take the stress off of the emergency spillway. Last I heard water was no longer going over the emergency spillway but they are concerned that a 30 foot tall section at the top of the emergency spillway may give way leading to massive flooding down stream. As of this moment 1:21 am pst 2/13/17 as far as I know there has been no failure.
Just an fyi; Oroville dam is an earthen dam. The missing concrete was from the face of the main spillway which according to reports is not what they are concerned with failing, it is the emergency spillway that they have said is in danger of failure.
:salute
Sik
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You mean the spillway.
In the UK we have the same problem
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Doesnt sound too good, its a lot of water in that dam...
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Took a look at the forecast https://www.windytv.com/overlays?rainAccu,next6d,40.103,-120.948,7 And it says 106 mm of rain in the area this week, that is definitely not going to do the situation any better...
Edit: I also have a question: Who was the genius that came up with the bright idea to let the emergency spillway be unprotected?
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Live cams, it's still dark in Ca,
https://youtu.be/NanEPQYZ5XU
https://youtu.be/dTWyJ1LmDsk
https://youtu.be/JxbDJlruQ-4
Interesting video recoded yesterday,
https://youtu.be/5iAHBOHGk8E
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Took a look at the forecast https://www.windytv.com/overlays?rainAccu,next6d,40.103,-120.948,7 And it says 106 mm of rain in the area this week, that is definitely not going to do the situation any better...
Edit: I also have a question: Who was the genius that came up with the bright idea to let the emergency spillway be unprotected?
Yes, we are expecting more rain starting in the middle of the week, but that isn't the only reason for the high water levels. We have a substantial snow pack in California this year (something like 175% of average) and these last few weather systems that have moved through are relatively warm and are melting the snow pack so even though it's not raining right now the rivers and streams are still all very high.
Dam operators never want to use the emergency spillway, it is a measure of last resort, The emergency spillway is just that, for emergencies. The flow out of the emergency spillway isn't controlled there are no gates to increase or decrease flow rates. The water is literally about to come over the top of the dam. The emergency spillway came into play because the operators had to decrease flows out of the main spillway to inspect the damage from the large hole that appeared in the main spillways face. Even after they resumed using the main spillway they couldn't release water fast enough to keep the water from topping the dam.
:salute
Sik
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Wow, and they did some work in 2013 right above the collapse spillway.
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They got the reservoir down by 50ft this morning as I watched Ch2 news here in Oakland CA. The main spillway is running and they are monitoring the runoff area.
Five years of drought and they didn't use the time to get ready for the rains which always come back. Our drought cycle is about 4-5 on 4-5 off. And they always say it's the drought of the century and do no maintenance on the dams. Extended droughts cause earthen dams to fail when the rain comes back and this has happened before down near L.A. during a drought cycle a generation ago.
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They got the reservoir down by 50ft this morning as I watched Ch2 news here in Oakland CA. The main spillway is running and they are monitoring the runoff area.
Five years of drought and they didn't use the time to get ready for the rains which always come back. Our drought cycle is about 4-5 on 4-5 off. And they always say it's the drought of the century and do no maintenance on the dams. Extended droughts cause earthen dams to fail when the rain comes back and this has happened before down near L.A. during a drought cycle a generation ago.
If thing get any worst, which they will, I can see a huge state and federal investigation on this.
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http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/12/oroville-dam-feds-and-state-officials-ignored-warnings-12-years-ago/
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http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/12/oroville-dam-feds-and-state-officials-ignored-warnings-12-years-ago/
That's a shame. Ppl not doing the job they are paid to do.
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If thing get any worst, which they will, I can see a huge state and federal investigation on this.
They don't need to get any worse. I'm sure they'll have an investigation, and some heads will roll, but in the end nothing will really change.
:salute
Sik
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They don't need to get any worse. I'm sure they'll have an investigation, and some heads will roll, but in the end nothing will really change.
:salute
Sik
You are forgetting the snow. They are up 175% this year and the rivers and stream are already floating high. Add that with the rain could get worst. Hope it doesn't but the threat is there.
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(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/106C6/production/_94607276_dam3.jpg)
Main spillway seems to be badly damage, if the flows continue there is a risk that the entire lower part will be gone...
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(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/106C6/production/_94607276_dam3.jpg)
Main spillway seems to be badly damage, if the flows continue there is a risk that the entire lower part will be gone...
Yeah the main spillway is fubar, and will continue to be damaged further until the rains and winter runoff subsides.
:salute
Sik
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It will be a huge overhaul in fixing it. And that's just one of many dams in that state that is in trouble from my understanding.
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If thing get any worst, which they will, I can see a huge state and federal investigation on this.
:rofl
Thats a good one :aok
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It will be a huge overhaul in fixing it. And that's just one of many dams in that state that is in trouble from my understanding.
just when building dams gets cool again. :furious
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They were concerned the main spillway would keep eroding at the rate it had started at.... It did not. If it had the main spillway could have failed.
They were then concerned about the emergency spillway. It was not designed as an emergency spillway. The dam was never completed to the finished specifications. They would have had a holding area for excess water if it was finished.
When water went over the secondary spillway it started eroding below it and put it in danger of failing.
All of this was brought up over 12 years ago and they said the powers that be could not force them (California owns the dam) to spend money on it. California gambled with the lives below the dam and we are now seeing what may happen. Lucky that there was rime to get the folks out should it fail.
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Odd that such a new dam...compared to the WPA dams around here...could not have been inspected and someone been told that if they start releasing too much water through the dam the spillway flume might start coming apart...
Saw a pic of trucks parked parked in the failure area and another of the same area gone...washed into the river...hell if they wanna be cheap blast the bottom part of the spillway out and get some use out of the bedrock...
That is a small spillway for the second largest lake in CA...Lake Fort Gibson's dam has 30 tainter gates and way more impressive... When the lake is up they move water...and they never stop generating... In the pic above it appears they are not generating ...if I was worried about my spillway I would be generating some electric while I was wasting the water I just got through praying for because of the never ending drought that I was told we were in...
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The thing that confuses me is why doesn't the emergency spillway have a clear or concrete flume to guide the water down? It just rides over and flows down the hillside taking everything with it. After living near Philpott Dam in VA all my life it's just such an odd design.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Philpott_DamPowerhouse.jpg)
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The thing that confuses me is why doesn't the emergency spillway have a clear or concrete flume to guide the water down? It just rides over and flows down the hillside taking everything with it. After living near Philpott Dam in VA all my life it's just such an odd design.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Philpott_DamPowerhouse.jpg)
The dam was never finished.
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The dam was never finished.
Figures.
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The dam was never finished.
Kind of deceptive statement. The only perfectly safe dam is one that costs an infinite amount of money to "finish": http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/precarious-oroville-dam-highlights-challenges-california-water-management
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With all this rain did the Salton Sea fill any?
If I remember correctly the State of California had to pump water into another dry lake to keep the toxic dust from spreading in the wind. I hope the rains have helped in that area also.
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Odd that such a new dam...compared to the WPA dams around here...could not have been inspected and someone been told that if they start releasing too much water through the dam the spillway flume might start coming apart...
Saw a pic of trucks parked parked in the failure area and another of the same area gone...washed into the river...hell if they wanna be cheap blast the bottom part of the spillway out and get some use out of the bedrock...
That is a small spillway for the second largest lake in CA...Lake Fort Gibson's dam has 30 tainter gates and way more impressive... When the lake is up they move water...and they never stop generating... In the pic above it appears they are not generating ...if I was worried about my spillway I would be generating some electric while I was wasting the water I just got through praying for because of the never ending drought that I was told we were in...
In fact Oroville dam was inspected and flaws were found. I think Zimme83 posted a link to the story in this thread.
They are not generating power because they had some unspecified problem with the power powerplant.
:salute
Sik
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With all this rain did the Salton Sea fill any?
If I remember correctly the State of California had to pump water into another dry lake to keep the toxic dust from spreading in the wind. I hope the rains have helped in that area also.
Doubtful. When I was there in January, San Diego was getting HAMMERED with rain, but while the clouds came over the mountains and messed up our high work, they didn't bring much water with them.
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Kind of deceptive statement. The only perfectly safe dam is one that costs an infinite amount of money to "finish": http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/precarious-oroville-dam-highlights-challenges-california-water-management
No deception about it. The dam was never finished. They said that the dam as designed was never finished......
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I happen to live downstream. I wasn't concerned with the spillway failing. The main concern is the erosion on the mountain itself under the emergency overflow. That section to the left of the actual dam. The dam is 20 feet higher than the section on the left. Water came over that area for the first time ever since the dam was completed. The water coming down the hill is eroding the actual hill itself. Huge concern about the pressure from the max capacity lake behind it. If that system crumbles, mind you it's not the dam that fails, its the HILL next to it, then a 30 foot wall of water hits and even us here in Sacramento are going to get our feet wet.
Now, this morning, they are "fixing" the problem. They are filling the holes that eroded with concrete and rocks. My concern, that isn't going to fix the problem of further erosion around those new patches.
This condition was pointed out in a 2005 lawsuit and is unfolding exactly as was described. There is talk that the concrete cap over the lip of the emergency overflow would protect the top of the hill when the water poured over. They are right, but it doesn't protect where the water hits the dirt immediately underneath.
Now, that spillway, the concrete one that came apart first, that soil eroded under the concrete spillway and then the concrete collapsed. That entire hill is unstable and eroding.
Oh, side note, that massive dam is anchored into that same hill.
Concerned? I am, and I have been active in the levee upgrade program here in the valley since the mid 90s and am very familiar with the infrastructure, live in an area surrounded by close levees and water, a virtual island, and this is the first and only time in m 35 years here I am concerned about flooding. I can't take my eyes off this hill.
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-58a22515/turbine/la-me-g-oroville-dam-how-20170213/)
Here, they are plugging holes. Concern is the soil eroding around the plugs
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-58a38983/turbine/la-me-lake-oroville-spillway-pictures-067/750/750x422)
Dam to the right, Concrete spillway to the left is what initially blew apart by the soil underneath eroding away, there was a cavity under the concrete, it blew apart. To the left, that's the lower emergency overflow. That concrete wall is sound, the soil below it, down the mountain, and under the spillway, that's coming apart.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/OrovilleDam.jpg)
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The flow over the emergency spillway was around 10% of what they had estimated as a maximum flow....
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Yes Zimmy, it started coming apart before the system even got going. There is a great deal of soil to move, the chances of that entire hill coming down is negligible, but the part that blows will still generate a great deal of water downstream.
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The flow over the emergency spillway was around 10% of what they had estimated as a maximum flow....
Actually the spillway was running at about 10 percent capacity (capacity 250,000 cfs) when the concrete gave way.
The so called "emergency" spillway is not that at all. It was originally designed as a secondary spillway but was never finished.
It is now refered to as the "emergency" spillway since it was not finished they hope to never need it..... except in absolute emergency.
The spillway that fell apart at much lower than designed flow caused them to never let it flow over 100,000 cfs. It should have moved 250,000 cfs.
They were totally at the mercy of mother nature and had nothing else they could do. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
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Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.
Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!
Same one?
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Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.
Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!
Same one?
I do not believe they have had any issues with this dam prior to this event.
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Spider truck,
Spider truck,
Doing whatever a Spider truck does...
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Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.
Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!
Same one?
That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently. ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out. It was and probably still is touch and go there.
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That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently. ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out. It was and probably still is touch and go there.
No, definitely the USA, pre 9/11.
Like back in 90's man.
LOL, I'm kind of an old guy, that was just yesterday!
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That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently. ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out. It was and probably still is touch and go there.
The Mosul dam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam
Edit: But there is also the Teton dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teton_Dam that collapsed back in 1976.
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The Mosul dam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam
Edit: But there is also the Teton dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teton_Dam that collapsed back in 1976.
Yeah, I might be conflating these two in my mind.
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ROC is very concerned..... I know where he lives and now he is putting all the "GOOD STUFF" in the upstairs room. :x
Does your Porsche have the U-BOAT option? :rofl
All joking aside,
Want to read something real scary, research the California Budget and see where the money went that was allocated to "REPAIRING" that damn.... :bhead
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Want to read something real scary, research the California Budget and see where the money went that was allocated to "REPAIRING" that damn....
Already did, pushing back against this stuff is what I do for a living lol :) Don't want to get the thread locked so, walking away from that one.
As for the u-boat option, I've got the porsche and mustang sandbagged, the bmw and living room might get wet but hey, got the important stuff handled!
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Already did, pushing back against this stuff is what I do for a living lol :) Don't want to get the thread locked so, walking away from that one.
As for the u-boat option, I've got the porsche and mustang sandbagged, the bmw and living room might get wet but hey, got the important stuff handled!
That is why I did not post it :D
Good to hear you are set. Had some friends get evacuated from their home, they are back now and did not get looted like so many others did. Sad that criminals take advantage of that. I heard that it is legal to shoot looters?
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Nature ALWAYS wins
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I heard that it is legal to shoot looters?
In CALIFORNIA?!
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Single shot nerf guns are state approved....
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In CALIFORNIA?!
My thought exactly. I thought kalifornia only allowed criminals to be armed and non-Americans to roam freely.
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My thought exactly. I thought kalifornia only allowed criminals to be armed and non-Americans to roam freely.
Actually an article in the news today said that those convicted of looting would get a whole 180 days in jail. :noid
Use to be a time when they shot looters.
:salute
Sik
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So how is that petition to divide Cali into North and South doing?
Boy, that would change the picture some huh?
Good luck on that, to you "North Californians"!
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You guys got crossing the political line. Watch your self and keep focus on the topic.
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You guys got crossing the political line. Watch your self and keep focus on the topic.
We are following the story as it unfolds. In short kalifornia does not care about its citizens.
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So how is that petition to divide Cali into North and South doing?
Boy, that would change the picture some huh?
Good luck on that, to you "North Californians"!
It also included southern Oregon? Or is this a new petition?
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See Rule #14
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The weather won't help , rain and heavy rain only for this week.
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?map.x=173&map.y=136&minlon=-124.5&maxlon=-118.5&minlat=37&maxlat=41.25&mapwidth=354&site=sto&zmx=1&zmy=1#.WKsgcctOlnE
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Reed Timmer has been live-streaming it today.
I found an article on the problem that is superior to the others I've read: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/17/oroville-dam-what-made-the-spillway-collapse
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Great article. SJ Mercury News does outstanding reporting.
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Excellent read.