Hearts, Clubs, Spades, Diamonds. Current chess piece fanatical loyalists wouldn't know what to do. ;)
:aok
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Tilt on February 14, 2017, 09:01:43 AM
So Rooks get access to twice the number of fights that Bishops and Nights do..............?
There is no real problem to being out numbered or even ganged by a horde............. because there is no denial of access to game play.
There is a problem when two sides end up fighting each other and ignoring the third........... that's why land grab is so important........... a side ignored grabs land until it can be ignored no longer.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: HamrDown on February 14, 2017, 09:59:54 AM
Proposal: Get rid of ENY...when there are more players on one side then make the planes that do not require perk points be perked. The whole BS about moving to another country (Bish, Rook, Knit) is stupid. People who play this game are loyal to their countries for the most part and it is totally ridiculous to ask us to move to another country to not have as high of ENY. OR, move to add one more country to 4 that would help balance things more. HTC every Bishop like me, feels the ENY model is not working and you know it! When you start to see many more people leave the game, you'll know one reason why, we cannot even fly the best planes in the game, thats why!
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Bushmills on February 14, 2017, 10:03:58 AM
Proposal: Get rid of ENY...when there are more players on one side then make the planes that do not require perk points be perked. The whole BS about moving to another country (Bish, Rook, Knit) is stupid. People who play this game are loyal to their countries for the most part and it is totally ridiculous to ask us to move to another country to not have as high of ENY. OR, move to add one more country to 4 that would help balance things more. HTC every Bishop like me, feels the ENY model is not working and you know it! When you start to see many more people leave the game, you'll know one reason why, we cannot even fly the best planes in the game, thats why!
I think moving around different countries would help alleviate your paranoia :banana:
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Lusche on February 14, 2017, 10:07:48 AM
People who play this game are loyal to their countries for the most part and it is totally ridiculous to ask us to move to another country to not have as high of ENY.
OR, move to add one more country to 4 that would help balance things more.
So it's three countries on one? Awesome :x
By the way, if it's "totally ridiculous to ask us to move to another country to not have as high of ENY. , how will you ever make the players fill up #4?
we cannot even fly the best planes in the game, thats why!
Oh yes, you can. But you want all of it - outnumber the enemy and smash him with superior equipment all the time. You are not willing to help adjusting things, everybody else has to, just no you. ME ME ME.
By the way, IMHO the ENY ain't even harsh enough for situations depicted in the screenshot above.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Dobs on February 14, 2017, 10:10:21 AM
I do like the idea of this...ENY limits, but perk points required to fly those planes affected by ENY.
Sounds like a good idea until you remember that many players have thousands of saves perks already. Going to have to empty their perk banks before a sliding perk cost system could ever be tried.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: whiteman on February 14, 2017, 11:44:43 AM
Playing as Rook just forget about winning and just get as many kills as you can.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Dobs on February 14, 2017, 11:51:46 AM
"winning"..... Risk is a strategy board game of diplomacy, conflict and conquest[1] for two to six players. The standard version is played on a board depicting a political map of the earth, divided into forty-two territories, which are grouped into six continents. Turn rotates among players who control armies of playing pieces with which they attempt to capture territories from other players, with results determined by dice rolls. Players may form and dissolve alliances during the course of the game. The object of the game is to occupy every territory on the board and in doing so, eliminate the other players.[2] The game can be lengthy, requiring several hours to multiple days to finish. European versions are structured so that each player has a limited "secret mission" objective that shortens the game.
There are those who think this game is about "winning" by taking bases and "coloring the map".....that is fine.
There are those who think this game is an aerial combat sim...that is fine.
Its when you try to impose your thoughts on "HOW" this game is to played on others that it is "NOT FINE"...
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: popeye on February 14, 2017, 12:05:55 PM
So, how many perkies do you get if your team "wins" the map? (Asked by a Rook player....)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: AKKuya on February 14, 2017, 12:22:14 PM
The solution is real simple. Re-designate the country names to Uno, Zwei and Kolme,
Uno country is filled with all Aces High subscribers. Zwei country is filled with AI defenders. Kolme country is stocked full of sheep.
New country names. Side balancing is equalized. And, harmony to the universe is achieved again.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Hungry on February 14, 2017, 12:23:52 PM
We just need fewer gripers. I guess when you can't stand up to your wife, you have to come here to complain.
No need for this, I think many have gotten so close to this online game they cant see the forest for the trees anymore, step back and objectively take a look, you might not like what you see
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Dawger on February 14, 2017, 12:58:29 PM
I would love the ability to switch to the low numbered country as I am ONLY here for the AERIAL fight. However, I lead a group that likes the teamwork aspect of the game and the 6 hour side switch limit makes switching to low numbers as a group difficult to manage without stranding folks.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Shuffler on February 14, 2017, 01:25:58 PM
Proposal: Get rid of ENY...when there are more players on one side then make the planes that do not require perk points be perked. The whole BS about moving to another country (Bish, Rook, Knit) is stupid. People who play this game are loyal to their countries for the most part and it is totally ridiculous to ask us to move to another country to not have as high of ENY. OR, move to add one more country to 4 that would help balance things more. HTC every Bishop like me, feels the ENY model is not working and you know it! When you start to see many more people leave the game, you'll know one reason why, we cannot even fly the best planes in the game, thats why!
Rediculous is being loyal to one chess piece when you seem to be having no fun in a game.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: MrRee on February 14, 2017, 02:00:35 PM
We just need fewer gripers. I guess when you can't stand up to your wife, you have to come here to complain.
Sig worthy :salute
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: lunatic1 on February 14, 2017, 02:21:49 PM
You do realize chart shown is at between 1:00 and 3:00 am
do you expect 130 people to play 24 hrs a day?
people have to work people have to sleep.
this where people are supposed to switch sides to even things out. but they won't do it.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bustr on February 14, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Randall172 on February 14, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
add ai players to the lowest number country,
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Lusche on February 14, 2017, 02:40:43 PM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
If everybody would play against their own country for one week, they would find that their wonderful allies (and themselves, if they would only see it) do most or all of the things they complain the other teams do. HOing, ganging, running, steamrolling, vulching, et al.
They would also find that their "enemies" are just like their friends. Rivalries are good for the game but country loyalist fanaticism isn't.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: lunatic1 on February 14, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
and if you switch to bish you will hear the same talk--my old squad the original 173rd ga's used to tour all 3 countries, we toured 2 months per country, the talk the complaint's all the problems In all 3 countries are all the same
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 14, 2017, 04:44:09 PM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
This. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 14, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
and if you switch to bish you will hear the same talk--my old squad the original 173rd ga's used to tour all 3 countries, we toured 2 months per country, the talk the complaint's all the problems In all 3 countries are all the same
The squeaks. The perceptions. The presumptions. The intermittent explosive disorder.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Hungry on February 14, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: ACE on February 14, 2017, 05:09:06 PM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
I have always said, all sides are more alike than different.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Hungry on February 14, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: SPKmes on February 14, 2017, 10:44:47 PM
dear prospective new player... this game has rules.. the only one I know for trues and don't follow myself sometimes is don't be a dick...other than that have fun ...oh yeah...bad language is a no no too
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Crash Orange on February 15, 2017, 12:01:22 AM
Rediculous is being loyal to one chess piece when you seem to be having no fun in a game.
It's not the chess piece, it's the people. It's like saying you're loyal to a piece of cloth. It's what the cloth represents.
I've played for all three countries and moving from one to another once in a while is a good thing but that's not the same as flipping over every time you log on. You don't shuffle players between teams at halftime.
The worst problem with ENY is late at night when numbers are low and a higher percentage of the people logged on aren't actually playing. You end up with all three sides having 10 people in flight but one of them having a 29 ENY because of 15 people in the tower who went to bed while still logged on in the hopes of getting war-winning perks while they slept. That country can easily be reduced to flying against superior numbers of Spit XVIs and LAs in A6M2s and F4Fs because that's all they can take off in. You can't take bases because the only bombers you can take are B-25Cs or He-111s.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 15, 2017, 07:26:33 AM
POTW moved to rook to get away from ENY. Rook all sound and act like knights now to my squad while I never realized just how much the knights play just like we accused the rooks and bish of playing the game when we were knights.
What may really kill this game is selfish inflexible players who create lame excuses for why they are limited to very narrow choices while scapegoating Hitech as their victimizer to justify away their lameness.
Spot on.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Shuffler on February 15, 2017, 09:27:11 AM
I want to kill you and everyone else in the game, but not die myself, thats the way I would like to see the game, is that selfish of me?
LOL darn.... you got me there. :banana:
Title: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Becinhu on February 15, 2017, 02:12:56 PM
Each side has their positives and negatives. I have flown all sides and they all horde, they all hide in ack, they all run. The difference is always the people. Each side has good people and each side has tool bags. Just depends which group of people you like best. I fly with a great group on knights currently, every night is fun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 15, 2017, 02:14:15 PM
Each side has their positives and negatives. I have flown all sides and they all horde, they all hide in ack, they all run. The difference is always the people. Each side has good people and each side has tool bags. Just depends which group of people you like best. I fly with a great group on knights currently, every night is fun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am definitely the funnest Knight. If you would kindly edit your post to say that, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you for your attention in this important matter.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 15, 2017, 02:44:51 PM
I've played for all three countries and moving from one to another once in a while is a good thing but that's not the same as flipping over every time you log on. You don't shuffle players between teams at halftime.
Sure you do if you're playing a pickup game and somebody has to go, or do you have a "skins for life" tattoo on your chest and if a couple of shirts have to go, tough on them, they get to play shorthanded?
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Zoney on February 15, 2017, 03:31:04 PM
Sure you do if you're playing a pickup game and somebody has to go, or do you have a "skins for life" tattoo on your chest and if a couple of shirts have to go, tough on them, they get to play shorthanded?
Wiley.
Exactamundo
If I was not in a squad, I would check the roster every time I logged in and immediately switch to the least numbered side.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: oboe on February 15, 2017, 06:15:33 PM
What about an optional pop-up message when you login to the arena and pull up the clipboard that offers you an award of say, 15 perk points to switch to the low-numbered side? If you click "OK" then it switches you automatically and increases your perk point total. I guess you'd have to tell it where to put the award - Fighters, Bombers, or Vehicles.
Perk Points are the carrot, ENY is the stick. Perhaps an effective combination.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 15, 2017, 06:28:55 PM
The only "adjustments" that need to be changed in the MA are map size and base distance. Orrr, have a monitor in the arena at 3AM est time to change the map to a smaller map until 11am est. The maps could start where they left off, until the eventual win. I still think Montis is the shiny example of a great MA map.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Becinhu on February 15, 2017, 07:34:08 PM
Each side has their positives and negatives. I have flown all sides and they all horde, they all hide in ack, they all run. The difference is always the people. Each side has good people and each side has tool bags. Just depends which group of people you like best. I fly with a great group on knights currently, every night is fun.
Edited per request: Zoney is the mostest funest knight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bozon on February 16, 2017, 06:20:14 AM
This is why I fly for rooks.
... wait! is this a whine that rooks are having more fun that the other 2 countries? Just for the record, our sheep are fluffier also. :old:
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: oboe on February 16, 2017, 06:36:01 AM
Rooks are actually the best Nation. All of their fighter pilots are strong, bomber pilots are good-looking, and vehicle drivers above average. It's a little known fact but if a Rook player switches to another side, the average IQ levels of both Nations is increased. :old:
(http://i.imgur.com/9Vk0536.jpg)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: redcatcherb412 on February 16, 2017, 07:15:20 PM
Each side has their positives and negatives. I have flown all sides and they all horde, they all hide in ack, they all run. The difference is always the people. Each side has good people and each side has tool bags. Just depends which group of people you like best. I fly with a great group on knights currently, every night is fun.
In the years i've played i've switched sides one time. It was a squad switch. With the exception of 1 or 2 squaddies the entire squad 1 by 1 migrated back after the 24hrs expired. Being considered spiez by the switched to country players just cause you had killed them a few times got old for most. Some just find a niche and are happy in it.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JunkyII on February 17, 2017, 09:18:33 AM
1 hour side switch :noid
Fact is there is a large portion of this community who would love to beat up lemmings as a rook in the situation...why not let them have the chance instead of forcing a side on them???
How long does the Average Aces High player stay active online (removing the tower sitters)? 2-3 hours at a time? Then they should be able to switch and switch back within that time. Is it 6? Then 2 switches within 6 hours...
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 17, 2017, 09:23:08 AM
Fact is there is a large portion of this community who would love to beat up lemmings as a rook in the situation...why not let them have the chance instead of forcing a side on them???
How long does the Average Aces High player stay active online (removing the tower sitters)? 2-3 hours at a time? Then they should be able to switch and switch back within that time. Is it 6? Then 2 switches within 6 hours...
One switch is plenty. Multiple switches in a single log would merely result in radical see-sawing (like ENY whiners claim already exist). I bet you see an invitation for you to duel my entire squad in this post, somehow. ;)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: ACE on February 17, 2017, 09:30:23 AM
Fact is there is a large portion of this community who would love to beat up lemmings as a rook in the situation...why not let them have the chance instead of forcing a side on them???
How long does the Average Aces High player stay active online (removing the tower sitters)? 2-3 hours at a time? Then they should be able to switch and switch back within that time. Is it 6? Then 2 switches within 6 hours...
I log in and look for a red Dar. If I see one I'll fly there for a couple sorties. Then the base gets taken or they drop our fighter hangers and I'll just log out.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 17, 2017, 11:57:09 AM
So Rooks get access to twice the number of fights that Bishops and Nights do..............?
There is no real problem to being out numbered or even ganged by a horde............. because there is no denial of access to game play.
There is a problem when two sides end up fighting each other and ignoring the third........... that's why land grab is so important........... a side ignored grabs land until it can be ignored no longer.
Incorrect.
We usually ignored on our side of the map while the Nits and Bits purse fight on the other. We don't capture bases fast enough to matter.
Two sides? Count me in.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: ACE on February 17, 2017, 12:19:54 PM
With low numbers I think a two sided front would be best really.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Wiley on February 17, 2017, 12:24:43 PM
One switch is plenty. Multiple switches in a single log would merely result in radical see-sawing (like ENY whiners claim already exist). I bet you see an invitation for you to duel my entire squad in this post, somehow. ;)
During one login during primetime I can just about always watch at least 2 major shifts, sometimes 3 in a period of about 4 hours. On a weekend day, over the course of the day just about every side has ENY at some point. The sides swing frequently over the course of a day.
I really doubt it could get much worse than it already is if it changed to a 1 hour side switch timer.
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Zoney on February 17, 2017, 01:04:18 PM
If 2 sides was tried, and I do not think it will be tried, I would want to have the game put everyone on the lower side as they logged in. I would want to solve the squads being together by having your squad and only your squad able to invite a squad member to switch sides to the same side as the squad was on.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 17, 2017, 01:52:06 PM
During one login during primetime I can just about always watch at least 2 major shifts, sometimes 3 in a period of about 4 hours. On a weekend day, over the course of the day just about every side has ENY at some point. The sides swing frequently over the course of a day.
I really doubt it could get much worse than it already is if it changed to a 1 hour side switch timer.
Wiley.
hitech already said no to the idea of a 1 hr switch time several times. I dont understand why you guys keep bringing it up.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 17, 2017, 03:46:24 PM
I can't post evidence that 1 hour works better because the only real proof would be to change it in the arena.
I can point out that the numbers swing wildly in much less time than the 6 hour side switch time under the current system. If the wild population swings are already happening over a much shorter time than the currently implemented "damper", seems to me the damper isn't doing much. Further, it appears logical to me a shorter switch time might actually smooth out some of those peaks and valleys if people were inclined to switch.
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 17, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
I can't post evidence that 1 hour works better because the only real proof would be to change it in the arena.
I can point out that the numbers swing wildly in much less time than the 6 hour side switch time under the current system. If the wild population swings are already happening over a much shorter time than the currently implemented "damper", seems to me the damper isn't doing much. Further, it appears logical to me a shorter switch time might actually smooth out some of those peaks and valleys if people were inclined to switch.
Wiley.
ENY and sideswitch work against each other. It's all stick and no carrot. If getting people to logoff (or quit altogether) is the goal then I guess it is working.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JimmyC on February 17, 2017, 04:57:10 PM
Off hours allow side switch per hour ..or when there is below 30 people on...something like that.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: rvflyer on February 17, 2017, 05:23:01 PM
As soon it was obvious that a side was going to lose everyone would switch to the winning side for the perk points. I do think that a 3 hour switch time would be a good compromise and reasonable.
Fact is there is a large portion of this community who would love to beat up lemmings as a rook in the situation...why not let them have the chance instead of forcing a side on them???
How long does the Average Aces High player stay active online (removing the tower sitters)? 2-3 hours at a time? Then they should be able to switch and switch back within that time. Is it 6? Then 2 switches within 6 hours...
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Wiley on February 17, 2017, 05:28:53 PM
As soon it was obvious that a side was going to lose everyone would switch to the winning side for the perk points. I do think that a 3 hour switch time would be a good compromise and reasonable.
Isn't it if they haven't been on that side for 12 hours when the war is won, they get nothing? I don't recall it being tied to side switch time.
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 17, 2017, 06:18:22 PM
During one login during primetime I can just about always watch at least 2 major shifts, sometimes 3 in a period of about 4 hours. On a weekend day, over the course of the day just about every side has ENY at some point. The sides swing frequently over the course of a day.
I really doubt it could get much worse than it already is if it changed to a 1 hour side switch timer.
Wiley.
Well, if all three sides experience the same amount of ENY then all's fair. :)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 17, 2017, 07:59:39 PM
As soon it was obvious that a side was going to lose everyone would switch to the winning side for the perk points. I do think that a 3 hour switch time would be a good compromise and reasonable.
Time delay for perk points when switching to the winners. Solved.
Frankly, perk points are irrelevant to me. I have no need for them. I'm not alone there.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 17, 2017, 08:46:33 PM
what I really would love to see is a well thought and explained message to hitech about why the switch time needs to be changed. instead of trying to convince each other about "what would work better".
after all the only person that matters in this argument is hitech. so put your heads together and try to convince him. I would love to see that posting.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: BowHTR on February 17, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
I can't post evidence that 1 hour works better because the only real proof would be to change it in the arena.
I can point out that the numbers swing wildly in much less time than the 6 hour side switch time under the current system. If the wild population swings are already happening over a much shorter time than the currently implemented "damper", seems to me the damper isn't doing much. Further, it appears logical to me a shorter switch time might actually smooth out some of those peaks and valleys if people were inclined to switch.
Wiley.
Would you say that the numbers swing less now that its a 6 hour switch compared to when it was 12 hour switch?
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Wiley on February 17, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
Would you say that the numbers swing less now that its a 6 hour switch compared to when it was 12 hour switch?
I don't think there's a correlation. My point is, the undesired behavior is already there. What's the point in worrying about the switch time causing wild swings in population over short periods, when today, right now, we have wild swings in population over short periods?
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 17, 2017, 11:49:37 PM
I don't think there's a correlation. My point is, the undesired behavior is already there. What's the point in worrying about the switch time causing wild swings in population over short periods, when today, right now, we have wild swings in population over short periods?
Wiley.
Bingo.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 17, 2017, 11:53:48 PM
I don't think there's a correlation. My point is, the undesired behavior is already there. What's the point in worrying about the switch time causing wild swings in population over short periods, when today, right now, we have wild swings in population over short periods?
Wiley.
so if we have wild swings over short periods of time then the answer would be to increase the switch time even further.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 12:12:42 AM
so if we have wild swings over short periods of time then the answer would be to increase the switch time even further.
semp
:headscratch:
The current swings occur in less time than the switch time. Please explain in detail how the switch time has anything whatsoever to do with the population swings?
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: zack1234 on February 18, 2017, 02:19:21 AM
I think we should retire Knights from the game :old:
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bozon on February 18, 2017, 05:37:11 AM
Always allow a switch to the least populated country. Switching to the two most populated countries will activate the 6 hours rule.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Max on February 18, 2017, 07:53:07 AM
Because even an intransigent can change his mind if given enough evidence. (I say this generally, not specifically.)
Three sides isn't working any more.
There are 3 absolutes in The Universe - 3 countries, 6 hr side switch limitation, taxes.
Have a warm cookie :devil
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JunkyII on February 18, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
If anything I think the longer side switch time just creates longer periods of eny. Which is why you are getting more complaints from players who DON'T like to switch sides...like Bozon said...unlimited switches to the smallest side shouldn't be a big deal and I personally would like to be able to switch once and switch back prior to logging off so I think 3 hours would be better then 6.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 18, 2017, 02:05:18 PM
Always allow a switch to the least populated country. Switching to the two most populated countries will activate the 6 hours rule.
if you switch to the least populated country you can always switch back to the most populated country right away. if you answer is to force you to stay in the least populated country then we go back to the system we have now.
I used to switch often when it was a one hour switch. me and a lot of guys. it was never to help it was to get more kills. not that we were doing poorly in the country we left. me and those guys are the reason we have a 6 hour switch time. eny would swing depending on which country we went to.
I find the reasoning of switching to help hilarious. we arent here to help a country we play to kill each other and have a good time. only exception is during fso and scenarios where we fly for 1 hour or so and engaged in combat for what 2 minutes?
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bustr on February 18, 2017, 02:20:14 PM
Helping to smooth ENY is a canard to cover wanting to switch as often as possible to follow fights. ENY is a long term issue during prime time and POTW switching rook was a major change by one squad which seems to have had and impact. Now ENY is not as much of a problem during prime time.
I still think the rook were doing a walk out to create an unnatural ENY issue to attack Hitech. Once POTW moved over to rook, and we don't have more on than about 4 on nights other than Tuesday squad night and some weekend nights. More rooks started showing up every night and ENY stopped being as big an issue. Funny coincidence how all that happened.
It's things like this that probably won't get you reductions in side switching time in the near future. Unless you really believe Hitech is the clueless moron many try to paint him as to justify whining about his decisions in these forums.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JunkyII on February 18, 2017, 03:44:04 PM
Bustr, even within POTW you're a minority of people who think ENY is fine....so stop acting like this is just a few disgruntled customers trying switch up the game or some consortium out to get Hitech.
Yikes :noid :noid :noid
I don't care if it's a personal problem that we can't get 1 hour rule back, if that truly is the reason for not making a change to the game then the game will ultimately fail because making a decision out of spite in business is just bad business....so stop bringing that crap up because it's garbage.
Now someone explain to me why letting everyone change to the low number side whenever they want is a bad thing??? How does it hurt gameplay??? The only thing it had the possibility of doing is evenly distributin the players in the arena....from then on everything whether it be ganging one side or fighting in a horde is all a players choice which HTC does not currently influence(as far as what country they fight against/ who they fly with ect ect)
Fact is bustr and semp...you both could not give a reason for why having side switch to at least the low number side would hurt gameplay...any reason you would try to give would or could be correlated to something else in the game.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 03:47:29 PM
He's not a clueless moron, but he also doesn't play enough to experience firsthand the issues that are driving people away.
Nobody can play the game 24-7, and relying on anecdotal reports is fraught with risk. I get it. But this isn't working.
I used to play more in one day than I now do in a month. ENY (and all its insane swings) is 90% of the reason. I'm not alone.
Enough is enough. It doesn't help/work as presently implemented.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 03:48:27 PM
Bustr, even within POTW you're a minority of people who think ENY is fine....so stop acting like this is just a few disgruntled customers trying switch up the game or some consortium out to get Hitech.
Yikes :noid :noid :noid
I don't care if it's a personal problem that we can't get 1 hour rule back, if that truly is the reason for not making a change to the game then the game will ultimately fail because making a decision out of spite in business is just bad business....so stop bringing that crap up because it's garbage.
Now someone explain to me why letting everyone change to the low number side whenever they want is a bad thing??? How does it hurt gameplay??? The only thing it had the possibility of doing is evenly distributin the players in the arena....from then on everything whether it be ganging one side or fighting in a horde is all a players choice which HTC does not currently influence(as far as what country they fight against/ who they fly with ect ect)
Fact is bustr and semp...you both could not give a reason for why having side switch to at least the low number side would hurt gameplay...any reason you would try to give would or could be correlated to something else in the game.
Bingo.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bustr on February 18, 2017, 06:06:46 PM
You guys have finally run out of canards to hide behind and have come to your real whine. You think 1 hour or quicker side switching will fix ENY as your presenting argument. You really want faster side switching while ENY is a vehicle to not get banned for what the muppets got banned over a few years ago trying this with a forum mob revolt. Faster side switching even if it is a free switch only to the low side at will, only creates population oscillations. The more population the worse the oscillations. You seem to keep forgetting Hitech has given that explanation a number times in different formats or this is where you dismiss him as a moron.
So continuing this is treating him like you think he is a moron because he doesn't get how right you are based on your own declarations. Then upping the anti by inventing a consensus of opinion that is supposed to speak for "all" of the community even if they don't know who you are. Pretty standard fair if you watch the daily media soap operas, and then you act like Hitech does not know how this script works while you beat that dead horse with the same old script one more time.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 06:17:09 PM
Uh, maybe it is because I did NOT sleep at a Holiday Inn last night but...
We ALREADY HAVE wild oscillations as it is WITHOUT faster side switching.
We also get outrageous ENY spikes with almost nobody playing. This merely encourages logging off.
Looks like the canard is yours.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bozon on February 18, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
bustr, no one wants to switch to balance ENY. Some want to switch to balance numbers, other want the lower numbers side in order ti find more fights. A very small number of players must absolutely fly their high ENY plane and are willing to switch countries for that. These are selfish reasons, but not bad reasons.
If the above players switched to the low numbers country, this would be a good thing for the game. However, most players are in a squadron. When their buddies log in, they will want to go back to their previous chesspiece to fly with them. With the current 6 hours rule, they cannot. What we are asking is a way to switch to the low numbers side and then go back to your previous country within a time that is not longer than a typical play session.
Some suggested a generally shorter switch time. Other suggested exceptions when switching to the low numbers side. I can see negative points in all suggestions, but the intention is good (even when selfish) and perhaps in the grand scheme the result is a net plus.
We are discussing.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: molybdenum on February 18, 2017, 08:32:38 PM
I don't think there's a correlation. My point is, the undesired behavior is already there. What's the point in worrying about the switch time causing wild swings in population over short periods, when today, right now, we have wild swings in population over short periods?
Wiley.
I'm always on early mornings PST and almost always on mid-afternoons. Mid-afternoon the #s are pretty stable; mornings you usually have mild nit ENY transitioning to significant bish ENY over the space of 2-3 hours; and evenings seem the most stable of all. I never see you on in the mornings when the greatest swing in ENY (yet not even close to "wild" by my definition) occurs, so it's hard for me to figure out what you mean by "wild swings over short periods," wiley. I play the game far more than you do and I don't see it.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Wiley on February 18, 2017, 08:49:38 PM
I'm always on early mornings PST and almost always on mid-afternoons. Mid-afternoon the #s are pretty stable; mornings you usually have mild nit ENY transitioning to significant bish ENY over the space of 2-3 hours; and evenings seem the most stable of all. I never see you on in the mornings when the greatest swing in ENY (yet not even close to "wild" by my definition) occurs, so it's hard for me to figure out what you mean by "wild swings over short periods," wiley. I play the game far more than you do and I don't see it.
Weekend mornings and long weekend mornings are about the only time I get to play days. Pretty much every time I've done it lately it went from moderate ENY for one side to moderate/high ENY for another side. Maybe it was just the recent Rook number change throwing off what I thought I was seeing.
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: ACE on February 18, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
Bustr acts like any suggestion to the game is awful. Always post useless walls of text too. Must be part of the good ol boys. Just calling it how I see it from the sideline. I'm down for anything to promote AIR combat.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 08:55:37 PM
Weekend mornings and long weekend mornings are about the only time I get to play days. Pretty much every time I've done it lately it went from moderate ENY for one side to moderate/high ENY for another side. Maybe it was just the recent Rook number change throwing off what I thought I was seeing.
Wiley.
I used to play almost around the clock. Mornings have always been the worst, tapering off as the day goes forward. This is why I continue to press for the elimination of ENY during low number periods. It serves no purpose other than to piss people off when numbers are low. Anything that causes people to log off is *NOT* good.
If you turn ENY off and ramp it up SLOWLY as numbers increase then you get a better overall result. If players login and see ENY 30 with only 15 players in flight they log off. But if they could fly what they want then they would stay. The problem would self-correct.
If you can keep people who log in and then log off in frustration from doing the latter then you would actually have a use for ENY eventually because numbers would reach the threshold where it begins to trigger (but not at a level of nuisance).
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 18, 2017, 08:58:31 PM
Bustr acts like any suggestion to the game is awful. Always post useless walls of text too. Must be part of the good ol boys. Just calling it how I see it from the sideline. I'm down for anything to promote AIR combat.
I would agree but it isn't worth 20 points...so I'll just say you may be on to something here. There are a lot of folks who resist/oppose change for the sake of it. That's not a good reason. Change can be good or bad, and it isn't ALWAYS the latter.
:cheers:
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: rvflyer on February 18, 2017, 10:21:52 PM
You could be right Willy. Not sure how long you have to be on a side, I do know that there are people that stay logged on over night in anticipation of a win, when they are not playing. I would like to see a auto logoff after a hour or so of inactivity.
You could be right Willy. Not sure how long you have to be on a side, I do know that there are people that stay logged on over night in anticipation of a win, when they are not playing. I would like to see a auto logoff after a hour or so of inactivity.
Problem is that's trivially circumvented. It would have no effect on people who were staying logged in for a reason.
Wiley.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JunkyII on February 19, 2017, 09:47:47 AM
You guys have finally run out of canards to hide behind and have come to your real whine. You think 1 hour or quicker side switching will fix ENY as your presenting argument. You really want faster side switching while ENY is a vehicle to not get banned for what the muppets got banned over a few years ago trying this with a forum mob revolt. Faster side switching even if it is a free switch only to the low side at will, only creates population oscillations. The more population the worse the oscillations. You seem to keep forgetting Hitech has given that explanation a number times in different formats or this is where you dismiss him as a moron.
So continuing this is treating him like you think he is a moron because he doesn't get how right you are based on your own declarations. Then upping the anti by inventing a consensus of opinion that is supposed to speak for "all" of the community even if they don't know who you are. Pretty standard fair if you watch the daily media soap operas, and then you act like Hitech does not know how this script works while you beat that dead horse with the same old script one more time.
It's not a conspiracy theory you paranoid drama queen.....
You blathered out a wall of text which consists of leave hitech alone and paranoid remarks about the muppets and SAID nothing to how the game would be effected negatively if they opened up side switch to the small number side....I concede...maybe there is more data he sees then we do which is why he won't give the 1 hour rule (which I honestly don't see how it's effect would create a huge difference but it has in the number of players pissed about ENY these days) but don't try and act like we are attacking him.....give a logical argument as to why opening up switching to the small number side is bad....you haven't all you say is "leave him alone" and "muppets conspiracy"
Here's a conspiracy for you....where'd all the numbers go since the 12 hour rule went into effect??? What are all the players holding a strike against him for that???
No they got tired of not being able to find fights so they found other games....it's not hard just add them on Steam and see that they are playing IL2....
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 10:45:55 AM
Personally, I think 3 hours is a better time for side switching. That way spying would still be difficult and most of the fights would be different by then. 3 hours is a long sit for one player at a time. That way, if a player comes back after and hour break and sees the #s have been skewed, or his team is hoarding, he can happily switch sides without having to wait another 2 hours...
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Shuffler on February 19, 2017, 11:11:59 AM
Numbers swing are more created by larger squads meeting up in today's arena.
Two sided arena has proven to not work per Hitech.
If folks in here were flying instead of posting, they could be having fun.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 11:42:12 AM
Numbers swing are more created by larger squads meeting up in today's arena.
Two sided arena has proven to not work per Hitech.
If folks in here were flying instead of posting, they could be having fun.
Been sick the last week while trying to get this dang job, can't get on let alone walk around more then I already have to trying to get this stuff figured out :aok
But I disagree with the large squad comment....how many large squads are left? POTW wasn't always the biggest but it for sure seems to be these days along with JG11 and a few others...Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers, Jokers, Birds of prey CHs all used to be noticeably bigger and yet the problem wasnt as big back then as it is now. I think the thing that changed is the squads who would change country to the lower side are now no longer as active and those that remain change a lot less frequently...The 80th is a great example of that, I remember fighting the 80th in the morning then giving them check 6s at night....Blue Knights....haven't seen one of them on in a long time...heck AoM had 3 players on about 2 weeks ago....I bet they don't remember the last time they saw those numbers. Devil is doing a good job getting KN back to where it was but they still lack numbers.
I don't know everyone's specific reason for leaving the game but the inability to jump sides to find a fight definitely puts more icing on that cake then it does removing it.
3 hours and unlimited switches to lowest number side....Why Not?
-Spys? Yea that ain't going away, people are willing to buy a second account for it
-ENY out of whack....kinda already is, you wouldn't have people thanking a squad for changing if it wasn't... (please someone say I'm wrong about that who isn't in POTW)
-People stacking the side who's winning? Those restrictions have been in place and it happens either way...don't reward them unless they have been there 24+ hours then and hey ENY gets a real chance to do it job and make it so people have to work together in lesser rides to win
It's absolute garbage that this type of suggestion gets met with deaf ears because people think it's a sin against the HTC bible to suggest something against what has already been changed....makes the community toxic and not welcoming...Example...Bustr saying Dobs suggestions are worthy because he is new to the game.... (I would quote but HTC edited it).
Sorry for the rant Shuffler I know you just want to get some fights in game I just don't understand why people in this community can't be open minded to a suggestion.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 19, 2017, 03:21:48 PM
Junky after the other threads where hitech explained why the 6 hour switch time, maybe you would think of setting up a proposal about why a lower switch time would be better.
so far you havent. all you do is discussed among you 7 or 8 people agreeing that a lower switch time would work with no data to back it up. this reminds me of a thread a few years ago where about 6 players wanted to be charged only for the days they played instead of the 15 flat rate. that was funny how they agreed among themselves that it was a better option. I find it funny how you guys do the same thing.
you guys are grown-ups deal with it. stop acting like little kids.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Junky after the other threads where hitech explained why the 6 hour switch time, maybe you would think of setting up a proposal about why a lower switch time would be better.
so far you havent. all you do is discussed among you 7 or 8 people agreeing that a lower switch time would work with no data to back it up. this reminds me of a thread a few years ago where about 6 players wanted to be charged only for the days they played instead of the 15 flat rate. that was funny how they agreed among themselves that it was a better option. I find it funny how you guys do the same thing.
you guys are grown-ups deal with it. stop acting like little kids.
semp
No data to back it up. That's a false premise. One cannot prove a theory without an experiment. So far we aren't being given the chance because your side "knows with certainty it will not work because we say so, even though we have no proof either" -- I believe that's called a logical fallacy.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 03:27:23 PM
3 hours and unlimited switches to lowest number side....Why Not?
-Spys? Yea that ain't going away, people are willing to buy a second account for it
-ENY out of whack....kinda already is, you wouldn't have people thanking a squad for changing if it wasn't... (please someone say I'm wrong about that who isn't in POTW)
-People stacking the side who's winning? Those restrictions have been in place and it happens either way...don't reward them unless they have been there 24+ hours then and hey ENY gets a real chance to do it job and make it so people have to work together in lesser rides to win
It's absolute garbage that this type of suggestion gets met with deaf ears because people think it's a sin against the HTC bible to suggest something against what has already been changed....makes the community toxic and not welcoming...Example...Bustr saying Dobs suggestions are worthy because he is new to the game.... (I would quote but HTC edited it).
Sorry for the rant Shuffler I know you just want to get some fights in game I just don't understand why people in this community can't be open minded to a suggestion.
"Because we've always done it this way."
I'll just leave this here in Hitech's own words.
Quote
To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.
But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack. We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides close to balance.
Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.
This would have a few effects.
1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers. [/color] 2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.
Your thoughts?
HiTech
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 19, 2017, 03:34:22 PM
No data to back it up. That's a false premise. One cannot prove a theory without an experiment. So far we aren't being given the chance because your side "knows with certainty it will not work because we say so, even though we have no proof either" -- I believe that's called a logical fallacy.
we experimented before. we had a 1 hour switch time and it didnt work. is that proof enough for you?
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 03:37:40 PM
prove that it doesnt work. because it works for me.
semp
One cannot prove a negative, however, I can state with absolute certainty that your anecdotal experience is not universal. Many of us do not share your enthusiasm for the current system as it does not work for us. The numbers prove it.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 19, 2017, 03:46:35 PM
One cannot prove a negative, however, I can state with absolute certainty that your anecdotal experience is not universal. Many of us do not share your enthusiasm for the current system as it does not work for us. The numbers prove it.
post your numbers.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 03:47:19 PM
Junky after the other threads where hitech explained why the 6 hour switch time, maybe you would think of setting up a proposal about why a lower switch time would be better.
so far you havent. all you do is discussed among you 7 or 8 people agreeing that a lower switch time would work with no data to back it up. this reminds me of a thread a few years ago where about 6 players wanted to be charged only for the days they played instead of the 15 flat rate. that was funny how they agreed among themselves that it was a better option. I find it funny how you guys do the same thing.
you guys are grown-ups deal with it. stop acting like little kids.
semp
Experience in game play by a person who understands the gameplay by performance in the game is a very valuable thing. Bending to preferences by people who don't understand the fights as well or who haven't mastered SA of the arena and the skies, has a lower chance at yielding a better outcome for what the game can do to be better. That is why people like Junky, Lazer, and me exist. To help paint a perspective of how the game play can be more exciting. I think we all understand how it works. They are better in other areas than I am. I just think people with experience and skill know what most players would enjoy and how to bring more excitement to the gameplay on a regular basis. I do like the new additions so far! I hope that better maps can be made. I think a team of people is a good idea!
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Zimme83 on February 19, 2017, 04:20:58 PM
When you log on you should be automatically assigned to the country with the lowest number. Should solve a lot of issues..
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 04:31:03 PM
Experience in game play by a person who understands the gameplay by performance in the game is a very valuable thing. Bending to preferences by people who don't understand the fights as well or who haven't mastered SA of the arena and the skies, has a lower chance at yielding a better outcome for what the game can do to be better. That is why people like Junky, Lazer, and me exist. To help paint a perspective of how the game play can be more exciting. I think we all understand how it works. They are better in other areas than I am. I just think people with experience and skill know what most players would enjoy and how to bring more excitement to the gameplay on a regular basis. I do like the new additions so far! I hope that better maps can be made. I think a team of people is a good idea!
All you are saying is what any High School cheer leader says about all of the girls in the school who are not members of the cool girls cheer leader squad. Or, if you cannot piu, piu, piu in this game like myself and those I decide are cool, you don't know nothing to talk about..... :joystick:
Wow, I could run for congress if I just use your rational...... :O
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 06:02:24 PM
All you are saying is what any High School cheer leader says about all of the girls in the school who are not members of the cool girls cheer leader squad. Or, if you cannot piu, piu, piu in this game like myself and those I decide are cool, you don't know nothing to talk about..... :joystick:
Wow, I could run for congress if I just use your rational...... :O
And what would the mathaltete student say to the cheerleader who wanted to be in their competiton, but didn't have the knowledge or undertsanding?
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
All you are saying is what any High School cheer leader says about all of the girls in the school who are not members of the cool girls cheer leader squad. Or, if you cannot piu, piu, piu in this game like myself and those I decide are cool, you don't know nothing to talk about..... :joystick:
Wow, I could run for congress if I just use your rational...... :O
Pot meet kettle perhaps?
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 19, 2017, 06:57:44 PM
Nah. He's not worth arguing with. I have him on ignore and am going back to that policy post haste. He constantly lies about me. There's no point in engaging...
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 07:24:19 PM
Honestly it's all about the maps. Thats the biggest issue. There seems to be a bending toward the minority opinion of AH slow game play. Which is fine for players who like "strategic" game play, but that is not the majority. People want combat fighter action. This game is not about "equality" for the weak. It's about learning how to play the game better or quitting because you aren't good enough. It's not an easy game. Maps should not force good players to die because it puts new rollers at an advantage. My solutions don't require any changes to game play or coading, all I ask for is a map that provides fights in different areas or the maps for all players.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 19, 2017, 07:27:34 PM
Nah. He's not worth arguing with. I have him on ignore and am going back to that policy post haste. He constantly lies about me. There's no point in engaging...
that's because you have no evidence that changing the switch time will balance the countries. the only one that has it is hitech.
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 07:32:17 PM
You'd see an increase in #s and excitement. Like, show me a map you are working on, with bases, and I'll do my best to tell you what I beleive can make the map really playable and fun.
I really really know what I'm talking about when it comes to these issues. I honestly know how fights works and why people aren't having as much fun when it comes to fighter combat. If you'd just listen to me instead of berating me because you think I'm some bully or something, we could work together to create fun maps. I don't have time to "build" them but I can view them and know if it would provide fun action. There are just some things that need to be tweaked on a few maps and it would help greatly. If Hitech spend an month playing AH, hed understand exactly what I'm talking about. I just think he has a perception of base distance that is too slow for what "gamers" are looking for these days.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 07:41:55 PM
that's because you have no evidence that changing the switch time will balance the countries. the only one that has it is hitech.
semp
Sometimes all it takes is 2-3 good players to switch to completely change the direction of the fight. If a good player can switch and help slow down a hoard, it can even out the balance of the fight. In reality there really should not be that lopsided of #s if the map promoted action in all 4 quadrants.
Another issue is that, if you switch teams, furball, and change the direction of the fight for your team, then your team becomes the hoard, you are now stuck on that side for the next 4-5 hours. If it goes into off hours and the #s shrink, you will not be able to switch to the team that needs the most help. This is just a hypothetical. But when the #s get below 50 in the map, the map needs to change to a smalle one, or the switch time needs to be disabled.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
Sometimes all it takes is 2-3 good players to switch to completely change the direction of the fight. If a good player can switch and help slow down a hoard, it can even out the balance of the fight. In reality there really should not be that lopsided of #s if the map promoted action in all 4 quadrants.
Another issue is that, if you switch teams, furball, and change the direction of the fight for your team, then your team becomes the hoard, you are now stuck on that side for the next 4-5 hours. If it goes into off hours and the #s shrink, you will not be able to switch to the team that needs the most help. This is just a hypothetical. But when the #s get below 50 in the map, the map needs to change to a smalle one, or the switch time needs to be disabled.
Along with a SEVERELY REDUCED ENY ramp.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 19, 2017, 07:53:02 PM
When was this? Under what conditions? What were the numbers? What were the limitations on switching?
It was during the peak, when there were two main arenas. There were no limitations on switching other than having to wait an hour. It didn't resolve the numbers unbalance in either of the two main arenas. One hour switch time was also active in the early and mid-war arenas, it never had an impact on addressing the number unbalance in those arenas either.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 19, 2017, 07:54:25 PM
It was during the peak, when there were two main arenas. There were no limitations on switching other than having to wait an hour. It didn't resolve the numbers unbalance in either of the two main arenas. One hour switch time was also active in the early and mid-war arenas, it never had an impact on addressing the number unbalance in those arenas either.
Then things were different at the nadir compared to the present. As pointed out, the impact of one or two players moving back then was trivial, but now it can (and does) make itself felt.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 08:24:51 PM
Honestly it's all about the maps. Thats the biggest issue. There seems to be a bending toward the minority opinion of AH slow game play. Which is fine for players who like "strategic" game play, but that is not the majority. People want combat fighter action. This game is not about "equality" for the weak. It's about learning how to play the game better or quitting because you aren't good enough. It's not an easy game. Maps should not force good players to die because it puts new rollers at an advantage. My solutions don't require any changes to game play or coading, all I ask for is a map that provides fights in different areas or the maps for all players.
Want to bet? Right now the majority.... the vast majority, Id say it was close to 80-20.... want to avoid fighting and just grab base after base to win the map. The players today ignore fighters to lawndart their ord, buffs dive bomb, M3 run rampant, none of which leads to any "fighting". Defense builds, enemy moves off to find an easier target.
No you WANT it to be the fighters as the majority, but it hasn't been that way for a long time. Forcing players who already dont want that type of action into playing that way is going to cause them to leave instead of change.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 08:57:58 PM
Want to bet? Right now the majority.... the vast majority, Id say it was close to 80-20.... want to avoid fighting and just grab base after base to win the map. The players today ignore fighters to lawndart their ord, buffs dive bomb, M3 run rampant, none of which leads to any "fighting". Defense builds, enemy moves off to find an easier target.
No you WANT it to be the fighters as the majority, but it hasn't been that way for a long time. Forcing players who already dont want that type of action into playing that way is going to cause them to leave instead of change.
If it forces them to leave then we are better off for it. Drones are more fun than bomb-and-bailers especially when one gets no victory credit after chasing them three or four sectors.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: The Fugitive on February 19, 2017, 09:28:56 PM
I dont know about you, but from what I hear numbers are so low during the day that finding a fight sucks. Id hate to see that happen at night as well.
No, HTC needs to add more things to help players WANT to fight. I dont know, maybe perks for hitting kill thresholds weekly. Perks for even k/d ratios weekly. They need game mechanics that will make players look at something other than just rolling bases. You know, that "carrot" you mentioned before.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: MrGeezer on February 19, 2017, 10:04:49 PM
Funny....usually it's a shameless doubleteam on the bish.
Double team on the Bish????? Why do the Rooks only have 37% of their fields 0% of either of the others. Im thinking the Rooks were the ones double teamed.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 19, 2017, 10:33:58 PM
I dont know about you, but from what I hear numbers are so low during the day that finding a fight sucks. Id hate to see that happen at night as well.
No, HTC needs to add more things to help players WANT to fight. I dont know, maybe perks for hitting kill thresholds weekly. Perks for even k/d ratios weekly. They need game mechanics that will make players look at something other than just rolling bases. You know, that "carrot" you mentioned before.
Bomb and bail does not equal a fight.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: BuckShot on February 19, 2017, 10:39:12 PM
Every team gets double teamed
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Becinhu on February 20, 2017, 10:53:42 AM
The argument has never changed about eny. Even after a several year break it's still here. It probably will be until the day the game goes offline. But it really isn't that big of a deal unless you are not capable of fighting in anything less than a 5 eny bird. Now when eny is over 20 it is annoying for sure, but I've never logged over eny, over my subpar flying...yes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 20, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
The argument has never changed about eny. Even after a several year break it's still here. It probably will be until the day the game goes offline. But it really isn't that big of a deal unless you are not capable of fighting in anything less than a 5 eny bird. Now when eny is over 20 it is annoying for sure, but I've never logged over eny, over my subpar flying...yes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Being capable of fighting in something less able is NOT the issue(!!!!!). Stop saying that. It's a strawman.
That said, why stick around if every time you login your plane is stuck in the hangar? This would affect less-capable (new?) players the most.
Anything that encourages logging off should be open to elimination.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Shuffler on February 20, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Today a large squad could be as low as 10. That many can swing numbers emensely.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: JunkyII on February 20, 2017, 04:19:35 PM
When the wait was an hour for switching sides, it didn't resolve the number unbalance.
True but did making it longer fix the problem or make it that a squad is getting praise for switching sides to help fix it?? That should be enough proof that the initial change had unintended consequences, so that's why I ask why not drop it to 3 and open up switching to the low number side. If anything ENY is more of an issue today then it was back then.
Semp, If the problem doesn't effect you....why even have an argument in it??? If the switch time was dropped to 1 hour...would you be personally effected...by your previous comments no so you are just hopping on a band wagon which makes you look ridiculous
Bustr, I would say I do have more knowledge from gameplay then most...I know in the 10 years I've known you I can't count on my hand the amount of times I seen you in a GV or Bomber....so yea when it comes to overall gameplay I do think I know more then you because I've participated in more of it the last ten years...when it comes to gunnery/gunsights/map making ect ect ect you know more then me. That's what the point Violator was making...you big dummy.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: hitech on February 20, 2017, 04:46:24 PM
True but did making it longer fix the problem or make it that a squad is getting praise for switching sides to help fix it??
Not sure what your saying, but you do realize that one of the goals of the system is to motivate people or squads to change sides and call that new place home?
HiTech
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bustr on February 20, 2017, 05:53:32 PM
Junky,
I've been in the game longer than you have known me. I think Syko is the only pig who has been with the pigs longer than me. You are still stuck on telling anyone who will listen that somehow you are better than them because of x,y and z which is supposed to then impart a superiority of "something" to anything you utter about this game. That is no different than High School cheer leaders telling all the girls in their school they are nothing if they didn't make the cheer leader squad. Ok we all bow down to Junky the head cheer leader of the Aces High High School cheer leader squad. Nope, the clouds didn't part and a heavenly chorus of "Amen Junky is the man" breaks wind while white doves place a laurel wreath on your head.
The amazing thing about Hitech is reading all of his posts from 1999 to the present. You see his game design philosophy which has not changed because he never started out to be WT, DCS or IL2 and it's clones. And none of them can duplicate the core of his game, arenas that support 600 players. So none of them can do an FSO with massed bomber streams over Germany and all of the fighters at the same time. If they attempted to, they would have to give up their core selling point, eyecandy. So you can have numbers or you can have eyecandy, and we all see the ongoing issues with AH3 moving the bar for our game up a bit with the eyecandy.
Becoming those other games is the gist of what most of you experts on Aces High offer Hitech no matter how you camouflage it from yourselves with the most earnest of intentions. All of the complaints about the three country system covers wanting this game to become those games or one of several other 2 country games. It works for the small numbers their arenas support but, it doesn't work for the design philosophy of this game.
I don't see what you gents are afraid of by not wish listing Hitech with the truth.
Dear Hitech:
We as a consensus of expert Aces High players who know the game better than you do now, have decided your old game philosophy from 1999 is no longer working. We have given up constructively trying to guide you into the 21st century. So what we "know" will save your game is that you change your design to align with the current successful trends of your closest competitors. And some of us do actively play those games and know for what we pontificate. And that's a fact.......
Loves and kisses from the Aces High consensus of game experts.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 20, 2017, 06:46:04 PM
Not sure what your saying, but you do realize that one of the goals of the system is to motivate people or squads to change sides and call that new place home?
HiTech
It's not doing much good from 6 AM to Noon. :salute
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: guncrasher on February 20, 2017, 07:57:26 PM
It's not doing much good from 6 AM to Noon. :salute.
you mean switching sides is disabled?
semp
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Tilt on February 21, 2017, 03:27:56 AM
Gotta say I like the three country system. There is no real problem with map rolling or even hording. The key test is access to game play.
So the only time that a three country model has a problem is when two countries only want to fight each other and ignore the third.
At this point the land grab becomes even more useful beach use the third will then grab land and cannot be ignored further.
I guess a lot of the above is the nature of game play rather than the access to it. I can see thatcombat on the edge of an enemy horde is not the same as a series of 1v1's or similar frequent small number encounters.
Equally when the gaming model ( not the country system) rewards success achieved by perpetually avoiding combat then ...... Something is kind wrong somewhere..... But IMO this is ( whilst annoying) rare.
Actually I do believe there is a role for a 4th nation. A homeless nation of Pawns. Mercenaries if you will.
These guys would be moved instantly from country to country to make up numbers or balance game play a little better....they give up choice of side to be rewarded with perpetual access to combat.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Arlo on February 21, 2017, 07:33:53 AM
Not sure what your saying, but you do realize that one of the goals of the system is to motivate people or squads to change sides and call that new place home?
HiTech
I'm terrible and conveying my thoughts to text, but what I was getting at is the reason I keep seeing people quote you was that changing the side switch time stabilizes ENY but a squad getting praised for fixing ENY is proof that it did not meet that objective because the problem still existed.
And as far as moving countries and staying there, I feel like an incentive for a squad for moving country would help more...maybe a ranking system of map wins for a squad or something to that nature would get squads to jump for long terms or tours to other countries..I don't think the side switch time is in the mind of any of the rotation squads thoughts when they rotate.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2017, 10:41:46 AM
Not sure what your saying, but you do realize that one of the goals of the system is to motivate people or squads to change sides and call that new place home?
HiTech
Now I see why you have the switch time so long, it's not to balance numbers in the short term. Still, with the numbers wildly fluctuating throughout the day, there is no way (for us) to confirm the long term numbers are balanced.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: hitech on February 21, 2017, 11:15:10 AM
The pigs on the wing was arguably the largest squad on the knights. They have been knights for as long as I can remember. Recently before they switched the knights had huge ENY problems which was fair they clearly out numbered everyone. Pigs switched to a different country and from what I have seen the numbers during American prime time are way more even.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 21, 2017, 11:40:29 AM
May be a reference to the Pigs On The Wing switching to Rook?
That's what he meant as I read it.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: ACE on February 21, 2017, 11:43:47 AM
In the mornings for me Central time.. Euro prime time... the numbers are already low and people stay logged on over night and ruin the fun for some countries. A lower side switch time ATLEAST during low numbers would be so beneficial for the players looking for a fight.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: hitech on February 21, 2017, 01:38:14 PM
Now I see why you have the switch time so long, it's not to balance numbers in the short term. Still, with the numbers wildly fluctuating throughout the day, there is no way (for us) to confirm the long term numbers are balanced.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Lusche on February 21, 2017, 01:44:42 PM
:x
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: oboe on February 21, 2017, 01:46:36 PM
LOL Lusche.
I assume Rooks are gold?
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: SPKmes on February 21, 2017, 01:46:55 PM
I can just see Lusche now...gimme, gimme, gimme hahahaa ( damn it...too slow hahahaha) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q6JN7AoXDiA/V8OA9uYWW9I/AAAAAAAAB9w/wxJuIklgNjsa3JUozzBuNzmY7yW5R_ZNwCLcB/s1600/FullSlime.jpg)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Vraciu on February 21, 2017, 02:01:11 PM
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: bustr on February 21, 2017, 02:57:32 PM
The graph for a week shows an interesting trend. Without knowing more an inference could be made, one or two countries tend to respond to peak population spikes from one of the three countries by citizens logging out. Who wants to take an arse whipping at the hands of an obvious superior numbered ability to attack or defend?
So determining some of this, probably by logging into the arena and see if the spikes translate into the times a country pulls together into a hoard to squat on one of the other countries would be valid. While seeing if in those cases where the second country logged out, if that visually on the map, they couldn't get into any real fights due to the hoard concentrated on the other front.
Then you are back to the player on the ground common wisdom about this era of the Aces High game. No one wants to fight unless they have all of the odds in their favor. Might be why missions no longer happen and why game play is more stagnant. If you have a large part of the community made up of veterans of even the past 5 years, they can tell as individuals by experience if it's worth investing their time into the current read of the CBM and country status. Missions are out then before they are born. There is no magic saddling up with three guys even in 262 and defeating a hoard of 20 in late war rides. Either they will snack on your expensive 262's or go elsewhere on the map to make use of their superior numbers and rides under better conditions. Still it looks like the real strategy is to log off and try another day because the odds are your country will have at least one good day a week.
In it's simplest analysis of the graph, you are looking at the personality of the majority community "who doesn't come to these forums" as it is in today's Aces High 3. But, you are willing to project on them your personality and what makes you happy for this game when you come up with solutions to throw at Hitech. And Hitech is stuck making sense of cold data pulled real time from the arenas as to the nature of that majority community who never comes in here and tells everyone they have the magic solution to all of the game's problems.
The majority who never comes in here don't fly KOTH, go to the DA, or ever wants a fair fight in the MA. They don't want to loose or make too large of a sacrifice for their rewards. So Hitech is stuck making them happy based on that personality which dominates AH3 right now. The rest of you are like asking world class race car drivers to design a four cylinder go to the market car 3 days a week for blue haired little old ladies. No balance to reality which Hitech has to deal with.
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2017, 04:13:19 PM
The graph for a week shows an interesting trend. Without knowing more an inference could be made, one or two countries tend to respond to peak population spikes from one of the three countries by citizens logging out. Who wants to take an arse whipping at the hands of an obvious superior numbered ability to attack or defend?
So determining some of this, probably by logging into the arena and see if the spikes translate into the times a country pulls together into a hoard to squat on one of the other countries would be valid. While seeing if in those cases where the second country logged out, if that visually on the map, they couldn't get into any real fights due to the hoard concentrated on the other front.
Then you are back to the player on the ground common wisdom about this era of the Aces High game. No one wants to fight unless they have all of the odds in their favor. Might be why missions no longer happen and why game play is more stagnant. If you have a large part of the community made up of veterans of even the past 5 years, they can tell as individuals by experience if it's worth investing their time into the current read of the CBM and country status. Missions are out then before they are born. There is no magic saddling up with three guys even in 262 and defeating a hoard of 20 in late war rides. Either they will snack on your expensive 262's or go elsewhere on the map to make use of their superior numbers and rides under better conditions. Still it looks like the real strategy is to log off and try another day because the odds are your country will have at least one good day a week.
In it's simplest analysis of the graph, you are looking at the personality of the majority community "who doesn't come to these forums" as it is in today's Aces High 3. But, you are willing to project on them your personality and what makes you happy for this game when you come up with solutions to throw at Hitech. And Hitech is stuck making sense of cold data pulled real time from the arenas as to the nature of that majority community who never comes in here and tells everyone they have the magic solution to all of the game's problems.
The majority who never comes in here don't fly KOTH, go to the DA, or ever wants a fair fight in the MA. They don't want to loose or make too large of a sacrifice for their rewards. So Hitech is stuck making them happy based on that personality which dominates AH3 right now. The rest of you are like asking world class race car drivers to design a four cylinder go to the market car 3 days a week for blue haired little old ladies. No balance to reality which Hitech has to deal with.
Bustr, You may have not been online when I asked about 13 members of our squad (who don't come to the bbs) whether or not they thought ENY needed to be changed or tweaked....An overwhelming majority said it was and the others said it doesn't matter....to you it obviously doesn't matter but what could go wrong to your gameplay if it was changed? What would go wrong to others gameplay if it were changed? (The ones who think ENY is fine)
They probably would still go on not noticing it while a pretty large number (judging by posts made here and the amount of players in our squad who think it's broke....which is a decent size poll of the community) would have less problems with it....you act as if it's only a handful who have a problem with it which is just insane to think that way....
Hitech, Do weeks look similar to each other or are they just as random? (Think the only for sure thing you can see in there is the FSO spikes)
Title: Re: maybe the three country system needs an adjustment
Post by: Oldman731 on February 21, 2017, 08:50:24 PM