Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lunatic1 on February 14, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
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Please please can we get the collisions changed or fixed or repaired...
in real life if 2 planes collide both planes go down, so should it be in AH3 with no winner no points awarded-no matter who collided with whom...if both pilots put rounds into each other's plane and still collide they should both go down.
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I don't think you understand how the collision model works. Just because you see a collision doesn't mean the other person saw it. Lag plays a huge role in collisions.
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As soon as data can travel the internet faster than the speed of light, a collision will always damage both planes.
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Please please can we get the collisions changed or fixed or repaired...
in real life if 2 planes collide both planes go down, so should it be in AH3 with no winner no points awarded-no matter who collided with whom...if both pilots put rounds into each other's plane and still collide they should both go down.
Aw... Lusche's synchronized animation was removed from hosting. Anybody got a link to a copy?
It is so much simpler to explain to people that don't get it with moving pictures.
Lunatic- Simply put, the way it works now is the best way it can work. If it worked any other way, you would have extremely common situations where you would pass a noticeable distance from an airplane, he would collide on his end, and you would fall from the sky for no good reason. The way it works as it stands now, what you see happen on your end is what happens to your plane.
Wiley.
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Please please can we get the collisions changed or fixed or repaired...
in real life if 2 planes collide both planes go down, so should it be in AH3 with no winner no points awarded-no matter who collided with whom...if both pilots put rounds into each other's plane and still collide they should both go down.
But the guy shooting is awarded hits, even though you think the bullets passed well behind you.
HiTech
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So is it the other player's game client that sends back a collision message to your game client saying you just touched me so go boom? Or is it your game client that decides you just touched him and makes you go boom? Which game client decides the collision happened that makes your plane go boom?
Hitech could just turn off collisions and we would be back to the bad old days of hiding inside of enemy bombers to not get shot down. And HOing each other without a care about ramming along with getting too close as an ACM exploit.
Or the collisions could be decided by the server at which point you would be at the top of your climb from a merge you know you are about to turn around and waste the fool. Then your plane goes boom because the server finished deciding you passed too close and it was you who chose to vector too close on purpose. Why, after 15 years Hitech would code it to award the person who chose to move too close the nasty end of the collision. And why to that, because he would code the server to look at where each of you were during that time window based on the millisecond difference in real positions versus perceived positions in the virtual world.
So we are back to letting the client side do it and getting our go boom sooner than later. Which would really make you mad enough to cancel your subscription because who wants to suddenly blow up for no apparent reason when you are really clear of the other guy. I can remember two times in 15 years lag was so bad I died from a collision when the con never got inside 200 of me and I thought I was flying away clean. The rest, it was obvious I was flying way too close to the other guy.
I used to have a room mate who played AW with me in the same room. We had two phone lines to two different ISPs. We sat side by side and flew wingman and what was taking place on our screens was never in sync. That is why your relative positions from your two different PC's during a collision are never exactly the same at the moment the collision message is sent. You are both flying on local to your PC copies of the same terrain while the HTC server is routing pointer data for you which is then out of sync by milliseconds. No one is flying on a single copy of the terrain hosted at the HTC server as a logged in guest. Ask yourself, why is a terrain download forced on me to get into the MA when a change has been made by HTC to that terrain.
The only person the collision model is fair to is the looser of the collision for flying too close to the winner of the collision. Fly too close less often and your collisions will go down.
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Its simple. If you collide on your screen you go boom, if he collide on his screen he go boom.
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while I understand the collision model what is hard for me to accept is a guy I never saw crashing into me from behind and I go down while he flies away.
semp
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Please please can we get the collisions changed or fixed or repaired...
in real life if 2 planes collide both planes go down, so should it be in AH3 with no winner no points awarded-no matter who collided with whom...if both pilots put rounds into each other's plane and still collide they should both go down.
Easiest thing in the world to take care of, when flying, don't run into other players and you will NEVER get a collision.
...or in Semps case roll out of the way before the guy runs into the back of you. :D
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I don't think you understand how the collision model works. Just because you see a collision doesn't mean the other person saw it. Lag plays a huge role in collisions.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wait what? if somebody collided with me I know it because game tells me so. as well as the pilot that collided with me.
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in real life if 2 planes collide both planes go down
In the 'real world', you both play on the same frotnend and there is no lag. That's why if your plane gets in contact with his plane, his plane will also get in contact with yours.
Not necessarily in Aces High.
I took my Pony and rammed another P-47. This is the moment of collision:
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/ramponyfe_zps68464ed1.jpg)
The message I got on my screen (not visible in the film viewer) "You have collided".
But this is what the very same moment of collision looked like on the P-47 pilot screen:
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/ramp47fe_zps40fa9a20.jpg)
Note the message "Lusche has collided with you." No "You have collided", because on this screen both planes are actually quite a distance apart.
So it's possible that I collide with you, but at the same time you do not collide with me. In case both planes actually collide with each other (on both frontends), both will take damage of some kind. Look at the messages you get in a collision, they tell you the whole story.
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.............<shortened version below>...............
Lunatic
Whose PC do you want to determine if a collision took place? yours or the other guys? because they will not show the same thing.........
and the server (if it was actually looking) would see something else again........................ .
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I hear you lunatic it does suck when the guy flies his prop through your plane you die instantly and he takes no damage. :D
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It might be nice to extend the collision model to GVs in some way. At least make it impossible for an M3 to "merge" with a Panzer so he can't be shot. (He and I did a little dance, until I was able to get far enough away from him to shoot.) Probably not a high priority, but something to put on the list.
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So is it the other player's game client that sends back a collision message to your game client saying you just touched me so go boom? Or is it your game client that decides you just touched him and makes you go boom? Which game client decides the collision happened that makes your plane go boom?<snip>
Your computer decides if your plane has intersected another object.
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Your computer decides if your plane has intersected another object.
Well then I'm getting a new computer because it is quite obvious the one I have now hates me :airplane: :joystick: :noid
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Well then I'm getting a new computer because it is quite obvious the one I have now hates me :airplane: :joystick: :noid
:rofl
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So would this play a negative factor in gv's then also? I think a tank is hidden behind a tree but another guy sees in 10 feet away from where I do?
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while I understand the collision model what is hard for me to accept is a guy I never saw crashing into me from behind and I go down while he flies away.
semp
The never saw part is lack of situational awareness. The 'his flying away' part is him not ramming you on his front end. Even without lag, sounds like he woulda scored a kill.
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So would this play a negative factor in gv's then also? I think a tank is hidden behind a tree but another guy sees in 10 feet away from where I do?
Maybe if the tank is going 300 mph down a Buzzsaw hill, but at normal speeds I don't think lag would be a factor for GVs.
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Your computer decides if your plane has intersected another object.
If the player only saw it as he intersected another object. Many see it as a personal affront to their existential existence in the virtual universe and demand Hitech beat the existential out of it to make them happy.
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(http://newtecharticles.com/site-content/uploads/2013/03/LagKillsGC-thumb-400x195-145.jpg)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/rage_zpsrjgmcjmq.png)
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hmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wait what? if somebody collided with me I know it because game tells me so. as well as the pilot that collided with me.
There are two different collision messages.
You collided with player.
Player collided with you.
You may see one or the other or both messages.
When you see both messages you both get damaged.
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So would this play a negative factor in gv's then also? I think a tank is hidden behind a tree but another guy sees in 10 feet away from where I do?
Tanks don't move fast enough to have position lag issues.
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There are two different collision messages.
You collided with player.
Player collided with you.
You may see one or the other or both messages.
When you see both messages you both get damaged.
I have noted that when I get a collision mesage I get the you have collided...as I was only getting this message I though this one sided collison bollocks is really getting to me...after chatting with the person they too got a you have collided mesage ...niether of us got so and so has collided with you....Thought it might be a new feature.
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I took my Pony and rammed another P-47. This is the moment of collision
Before Lusche takes his family to live on an obscure South Seas island that has no internet, would the Poobahs please take this post and make it a sticky? It's really the best explanation ever for a complaint that routinely appears.
- oldman
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The problem with the phrasing is that it makes it sound like one or the other is at fault like some kinda traffic accident. It should probably be changed to a simple "we used to try to explain this but we have given up, please crash now"
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Lunatic...don't be concerned with the fact that a collision by definition is between two objects. Just think of it as one of you had your eyes closed so they didn't see it and therefore are not affected.
If you don't apply logic to this it makes perfect sense! Just remember he with best connect and fastest computer loses....
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Not understanding the collision model as the best solution available in a world where lag is inevitable is now considered 'applied logic?'
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When plane collides with a tank, it shouldn't continue flying and fighting.....maybe glide to a ditch.
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the server doesn't decide if/when players collide, its just a relay?
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the server doesn't decide if/when players collide, its just a relay?
That's about it. If you experience a collision that gives you damage it means it happened on your computer. You may have experienced flying close to another plane and they experience a collision but you do not. Bullets are similar. What you hit on your screen counts. On the other guys computer he might see tracers behind him while he gets shot up by you. I always wondered why nobody complains about it looking like the other guy has no shot and yet he gets you, happens all the time.
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Lunatic...don't be concerned with the fact that a collision by definition is between two objects. Just think of it as one of you had your eyes closed so they didn't see it and therefore are not affected.
If you don't apply logic to this it makes perfect sense! Just remember he with best connect and fastest computer loses....
That is false. Computer and internet speed make no difference. It's simply whether or not you hit something on your PC.
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the server doesn't decide if/when players collide, its just a relay?
Exactly. And that is why this
Just remember he with best connect and fastest computer loses....
is a false statement.
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That is false. Computer and internet speed make no difference. It's simply whether or not you hit something on your PC.
No, not totally false. On average it is true but not at the extreme ends of play. The image total display lag figures in which was not mentioned. You see it happen when a player gets a shot before your image displays the player has a shot. It does not happen often but it does happen.
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That is false. Computer and internet speed make no difference. It's simply whether or not you hit something on your PC.
No, not totally false. On average it is true but not at the extreme ends of play. The image total display lag figures in which was not mentioned. You see it happen when a player gets a shot before your image displays the player has a shot. It does not happen often but it does happen.
Internet speed has zero ,nada has nothing to do with if you collide or not. It is exactly as if you were playing on your system only against an AI and you collided with it. The only difference is the AI does not take damage do to the collision.
HiTech
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Just remember he with best connect and fastest computer loses....
There may be advantages to having a steady long lag........ ( but it's not about collisions)
......... And it's only provided you know it and your opponent does not
..........And you're in a high speed high angles combat
.......... Then our laggy guy knows what angles give you guns on and you are not aware how those shots he fired at something way behind you are scoring hits! So you continue to present him wth your target.
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Well then I'm getting a new computer because it is quite obvious the one I have now hates me :airplane: :joystick: :noid
:aok
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There are two different collision messages.
You collided with player.
Player collided with you.
You may see one or the other or both messages.
When you see both messages you both get damaged.
but I'm the only one crashing in to the ground
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Lunatic, read and understand Lusche's post. If you were in the P47 and saw the P51 where it is from the P47's perspective in the second picture, would you want your plane to go down? I know I sure wouldn't.
Wiley.
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but I'm the only one crashing in to the ground
Then you're the only one that had a collision and you only saw one of the messages.
Or, you both had collisions and you both saw both messages, but only you had critical damage from the collision.
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No, not totally false. On average it is true but not at the extreme ends of play. The image total display lag figures in which was not mentioned. You see it happen when a player gets a shot before your image displays the player has a shot. It does not happen often but it does happen.
You're describing the effect of travel time on the internet.
Theoretically if your monitor lag was greater than your connection lag you might see an exception.
My comment was completely correct in context. If you have to take it out of context to criticize it that's a clue. :D
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but I'm the only one crashing in to the ground
Stop running into people and you wont have this problem. Im serious, If you dont collide on your screen (your computer does NOT detect a collision) then you will never take damage from a collision. You can still take damage from some bozo spraying his cannon fire all over the place as you avoid running in to him, but you will not get the collision message/damage.
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Stop running into people and you wont have this problem. Im serious, If you dont collide on your screen (your computer does NOT detect a collision) then you will never take damage from a collision. You can still take damage from some bozo spraying his cannon fire all over the place as you avoid running in to him, but you will not get the collision message/damage.
That's not correct. You can't always avoid a collision. You can get hit from behind or below by someone on your PC without seeing them coming while they miss you on their PC. It's just a matter of aircraft position on each PC.
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That's not correct. You can't always avoid a collision. You can get hit from behind or below by someone on your PC without seeing them coming while they miss you on their PC. It's just a matter of aircraft position on each PC.
So ..... situational awareness is the key. (Not that I've ever mastered that - but then, I've never whined about collisions - not once.) :cool: :airplane: :old:
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exactly! you can always avoid as long as your SA is up to snuff.
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You can always try to avoid a collision but if you don't have the energy to get out of the way you will get hit.
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One interesting thought is if you play long enough you should break even on the number of times you go down first or the other plane. I must have not played long enough yet.
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[...] break even on the number of times you go down first or the other plane [...]
I have the vague feeling you are still having some misconceptions about collisions.? :headscratch:
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One interesting thought is if you play long enough you should break even on the number of times you go down first or the other plane. I must have not played long enough yet.
i beat those odds every single day I play. just avoid running into other players! if you dont hit them on your screen you never get a collision.