Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on February 20, 2017, 03:00:29 AM
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I will probably get ripped to shreds on this one, but I will post it any way. :x Since there aren't to my recollection any OD P-51Ds in the game I thought I would give this one a try.
This is Major Edwin W. Hiro's P-51D-5-NA, "Horse's Itch" (S/N 44-13518, coded B6*D). Hiro was commander of the 363rd Fighter Squadron, 357th Fighter Group based in Leiston, Suffolk from June to September 1944. An ace with five victories, Maj. Hiro was killed in action on his final scheduled combat mission in a massive air battle against German Me-109s while providing air cover during Operation Market Garden.
https://obscureco.wordpress.com/tag/operation-market-garden/
c. 17 September 1944 - Maj. Ed Hiro, on the last scheduled mission of his tour, dove into a swirling Lufbery of 25 planes. A Bf 109 broke from the circle, with Hiro on its tail; F/O Johnnie Carter followed and saw the 109 crash and burn. The Mustangs turned back toward the Lufbery, but Carter became separated from Hiro, who called on the radio asking where the rest of his flight was. Leutnant Richard Franz of 7./JG 11 saw Hiro destroy another Bf 109, but closed on Hiro and almost immediately hit the P-51D in the engine and cockpit. Lt. “Ted” Conlin had seen the attack on Hiro, and had gained position on Franz just too late; as the German pilot watched his victim go in, Conlin stitched Franz’s Bf 109G-14/AS across the engine and left wing, forcing Franz to crash-land in a wooded area. Hiro’s Mustang descended gradually until it slammed into the ground; Hiro was killed as a result.
His P-51D was named after a type of mixed drink. It is modeled here after its hastily applied D-Day Invasion markings had been partly removed.
I may tweak the specularity some to make it a little less flat. The lettering/numbering does not line up or match (height, width, font, etc.) on purpose as this is how it appeared in real life.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26755)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26757)
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Nice. We need more od stangs
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I think it looks very nice. This skin used to be in game but was removed to make room for Cactus' "Dizzy Rebel" from the 20th FG. I think you've got the OD shade exactly right, and also the shade of yellow for the tail serial numbers looks right on to me.
What historical images were you working from? If its from the 357th and its after D-Day, I'm surprised its not carrying 357th's signature yellow/red checkered nose and striped spinner. Have you got photographic evidence of the white nose on this airframe at this time period?
I do feel unsettled about a '51D-5 skin on a later '51 airframe after the extra tail fillet had been added to increase stability. Its not historically accurate, but then neither are the '51B PTO skins that are sporting the Malcom canopy hood modification. I wish HTC would add the earlier D-5 air frame and the bird-cage '51B so the skins could be put on their historically correct shape.
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What an absolute beauty!
Now just add a 355th FG D Model and I'll be very happy :x
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I would also add I think your rudder ribbing glare/shadowing looks very good. This is something I'm struggling with right now on the '51D skins I'm working up.
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Wow, thanks guys. Very kind words.
Edit in: Oboe is working on a 355th skin, BF. It is a sharp one. I forgot it was a 355th airplane.
I am with you on the D-5, Oboe. If HTC would give us the birdcage B it would be nice. P-51B, P-51C, P-51D-5, P-51D+. That would open up more slots for guys working on skins like your DOWN FOR DOUBLE.
Didn't know this was in the game already. Uh oh. That may mean it gets rejected. :( I could shift to another if need be. Not sure which plane though. Guess Skuzzy will have to make the call.
I have two photos of this airplane showing the white spinner along with several profiles. There are also a number of post-D-Day squadron shots with white markings after 6 June. That's what attracted me to this one. I love the white nose.
Rudder ribbing is managed via transparency. I drew the outline then turned down the transparency until it looked right. The other option is to use the brightness tool and use a slightly darker shade alone with a couple of airbrush sweeps to hit the rudder. I can send you this file to look at if you want it.
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I am very far along on a 355th FG skin, "Down for Double", but its not ready to show publicly. Here's a profile image though:
(http://i.imgur.com/KHaY4bZ.jpg)
And here's a version of it I did before AH3 came out, long time ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/jFFhrry.jpg)
Would that fit the bill, BFOOT1?
The white nose on Horse's Itch is real surprising to me. I especially appreciate trying to be true to clear photographic evidence - but that must make this aircraft very unique to be not following the 357th's convention on markings. Wonder what the story was?
I don't think Skuzzy would reject it just because the subject has been in game once before, but who knows.
I've got so many versions of the rudder I just can't decide which looks right - I'm letting it percolate in my mind a bit while I tend to other aspects. I've got images showing small rivets on the rudder, large rivets, no rivets at all....what I do is duplicate the rivet layer twice - one black, one white. The apply a Gaussian blur and offset the dark one up and the white one below the rivet layer. And the fiddle with opacity and balance, and fiddle some more. And what looks right on a blue rudder doesn't look right on a silver/grey one, or a red or white one. And what looks OK one day doesn't look right to me the next. Ever had that happen?
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I keep forgetting that's the 355th.
I was working on one also but lost some layers by mistake and never went back to it after seeing yours.
I have at least half a dozen 357th planes with the white nose. I've seen a source claim they are yellow in preparation for the addition of the red checkering. Not sure I believe that but I suppose it's possible.
As for the rest, believe me, I get cross-eyed, too. After working on this OD for the last few days going back to NMF really gave me whiplash. I get exactly what you're saying.
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I like what I see. Would be nice to have the screenshots closer to the plane to get a better sense of the details.
I agree with your call with using white on the nose and also the need for more shine.
Looking at pictures of the real plane, I think you could improve the following bits:
1. Chip the paint at the wing roots and leading edges.
2. Adjust the D-Day stripes on the fuselage. The rear white stripe is too wide and the rear black stripe tapers rearward. Also, rough-up the borders between all the stripes to mimic hand painted stripes.
3. The upper wing had full stripes which were wiped away. Try to add some extremely faded stripes to the upper wings to mimic the remaining color.
And one final thing I'd do is add some gray to the stripes and insignias to make them a bit less stark and blend better with the overall skin.
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I like what I see. Would be nice to have the screenshots closer to the plane to get a better sense of the details.
I agree with your call with using white on the nose and also the need for more shine.
Looking at pictures of the real plane, I think you could improve the following bits:
1. Chip the paint at the wing roots and leading edges.
2. Adjust the D-Day stripes on the fuselage. The rear white stripe is too wide and the rear black stripe tapers rearward. Also, rough-up the borders between all the stripes to mimic hand painted stripes.
3. The upper wing had full stripes which were wiped away. Try to add some extremely faded stripes to the upper wings to mimic the remaining color.
And one final thing I'd do is add some gray to the stripes and insignias to make them a bit less stark and blend better with the overall skin.
I will give it a shot.
What's the best paint chip method? Gray coupled with specularity?
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I will give it a shot.
What's the best paint chip method? Gray coupled with specularity?
That is the simplest method, and what I do most of the time.
Or, you could add your bare metal layers beneath the paint layers and erase the paint to reveal the metal. I did this on my Ki-84's.
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That is the simplest method, and what I do most of the time.
Or, you could add your bare metal layers beneath the paint layers and erase the paint to reveal the metal. I did this on my Ki-84's.
Oddly enough, I preserved the NMF base layer. Something told me not to merge it with the OD/Gray layer. Go figure! Lol
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I like the skin Vraciu and agree with Devil that the stripes need to be toned down. BTW your screenshots look odd with shadows disabled.
I think the only issue HTC might have with two P-51D skins being from the same group is if they were both visually very similar to each other, but these two could hardly be more different. Aren't all the slots full for the D though?
I'd only use the erase and reveal method of paint chipping if there was a lot of metal to be revealed, which may well hve been the case on Devil's Ki-84s. IJAAF planes sometimes ended up showing more metal than paint. For normal levels of chipping its easier to use a layer of painted on grey chips. These can be edited more simply for later skins as well.
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I like the skin Vraciu and agree with Devil that the stripes need to be toned down. BTW your screenshots look odd with shadows disabled.
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
Shadows... Turning them on causes some anomalies with shadow gaps so I did it without them on some of these pictures. I will try enabling them next time.
I think the only issue HTC might have with two P-51D skins being from the same group is if they were both visually very similar to each other, but these two could hardly be more different. Aren't all the slots full for the D though?
By my math I think there is one slot open. If we could get a D-5 FM that would really be great but for now it is wishful thinking... I looked offline and did not see a 357th FG skin for the P-51D, either. I was surprised.
I'd only use the erase and reveal method of paint chipping if there was a lot of metal to be revealed, which may well hve been the case on Devil's Ki-84s. IJAAF planes sometimes ended up showing more metal than paint. For normal levels of chipping its easier to use a layer of painted on grey chips. These can be edited more simply for later skins as well.
Got ya. I will give it a try. The biggest challenge with LE chips for me is the blurring where the wing wraps. The B is worse than the D but it is still problematic.
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I got the removed stripe effect by brightening the upper wing surface by 2 percent. That seemed to do the ticket. I also tore after the invasion stripes. They are now appropriately crooked. LOL
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I will tweak the specularity, modify the invasion stripes, and add some paint chips.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26768)
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My problem with the stripes is that they look too white and too black. I'd suggest making the black something like RGB 32/32/32 and the white 210/210/210.
Despite the gaps I still think screenshots look better with shadows on. I wish HTC would get round to fixing this though.
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My problem with the stripes is that they look too white and too black. I'd suggest making the black something like RGB 32/32/32 and the white 210/210/210.
Despite the gaps I still think screenshots look better with shadows on. I wish HTC would get round to fixing this though.
I will work on that. Thanks a lot.
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Are the white wing and tail stripes identical in color to the white invasion stripes or is that hue supposed to be different?
Where do input colors with Gimp? I am gonna' try to learn this software I guess... It's more advanced than my poor PSP 5.
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I'm pretty sure both sets of stripes would've started out the same shade of white paint. The white ID stripes would've been applied as soon as the aircraft was received in theater though, and the invasion stripes would've been freshly painted in early June '44. I'm not sure how much the paint would weather/discolor/fade though.
Have you looked at the invasion stripes on the default P-51B? Seems to me I recall them looking pretty good - not a pure solid color, faded with some paint chipping and wear, etc.
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Are the white wing and tail stripes identical in color to the white invasion stripes or is that hue supposed to be different?
Where do input colors with Gimp? I am gonna' try to learn this software I guess... It's more advanced than my poor PSP 5.
The white would all the the same shade, but the stripe on the wing may be cleaner since it was put on after the full stripes were removed.
In GIMP, if you double click on the foreground or background color on the toolbar you will get a popup for color selection. There you can set any color you like and make adjustments.
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I am very far along on a 355th FG skin, "Down for Double", but its not ready to show publicly. Here's a profile image though:
(http://i.imgur.com/KHaY4bZ.jpg)
And here's a version of it I did before AH3 came out, long time ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/jFFhrry.jpg)
Would that fit the bill, BFOOT1?
The white nose on Horse's Itch is real surprising to me. I especially appreciate trying to be true to clear photographic evidence - but that must make this aircraft very unique to be not following the 357th's convention on markings. Wonder what the story was?
I don't think Skuzzy would reject it just because the subject has been in game once before, but who knows.
I've got so many versions of the rudder I just can't decide which looks right - I'm letting it percolate in my mind a bit while I tend to other aspects. I've got images showing small rivets on the rudder, large rivets, no rivets at all....what I do is duplicate the rivet layer twice - one black, one white. The apply a Gaussian blur and offset the dark one up and the white one below the rivet layer. And the fiddle with opacity and balance, and fiddle some more. And what looks right on a blue rudder doesn't look right on a silver/grey one, or a red or white one. And what looks OK one day doesn't look right to me the next. Ever had that happen?
Yes, yes, yes! That's a beauty too! Wowzers!
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Yes, yes, yes! That's a beauty too! Wowzers!
It really is. With a tweak or two it will beat anything out there. I really REALLY like that skin.
Frankly, I think one of the orphaned skins should be retired so DOWN FOR DOUBLE has a home. (Wish we had a HALL OF HONOR for retired skins though.)
Also, Oboe has really been a big help to me with my efforts. His input has been a benefit without question. I think it started with DING HAO! (his comments actually have carried through to ALL of my skins).
D4D is a great skin. I hope it gets its due.
:salute
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Vraciu: I took a look at the skin you submitted.
Some how you are completely missing the concept of lighting (spec,env,power) maps.
It appears you simply grey scaled your diffuse map. This will not work very well.
As an example the star emblem on the wings should pretty much be all the same value in the spec and power map.(note different values between the spec and power, but in each map they should be consistent across the emblem) What those maps are doing is controlling how shiny /dull something is. You need to think in terms of paint , i.e. is it flat/glossy/semi gloss excreta and how each would reflect light differently . And not in terms of colors or brightness of the diffuse map.
HiTech
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I gray scaled it and made adjustments for insignia, stripes, etc.
I understand the concept and on painted airplanes it works fine. My problem is with metal.
This airplane turned out mostly how I wanted. I will tweak a thing or two but it looks to me like it should.
Compare it to my P-51B DING HAO! and they look similar.
The NMF is where the problem lies for me.
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I'll give the above a try. Thanks for offering suggestions. :salute
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I added some paint chips and actually managed to create a NORMAL MAP from scratch. :x (Still gotta' learn a thing or two about how to manipulate the settings, but I have a decent grasp of it.) The white obviously washed out with this lighting angle. It looks nicer than this shows.
Any better? I think it is an improvement based on the input received from everyone.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26956)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26958)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26960)
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Off angle from the light... I toned down the white on the fuselage and used the black shade the default P-51D has on the tail markings. Hopefully that addresses previously mentioned concerns. :salute
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26962)
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:aok
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Did you happen to rotate the spinner while on the runway, in the game (toggle 'E' quickly) and watch the Sun reaction with it?
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Did you happen to rotate the spinner while on the runway, in the game (toggle 'E' quickly) and watch the Sun reaction with it?
Yes. It has a light section and a dark section that flashes for lack of a better word. It does that no matter what I do to the maps (which I assume is intentional to give the visual effect of rotation).
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post your _S _E And _P files.
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Looks great. One tweak I'd make is to adjust the red on the fuel caps. Your red is too dark and deep.
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post your _S _E And _P files.
The E is slightly darker than the other two. The P and S files are almost identical. The lighter areas on the top are where some stripes were removed. I left them slightly shinier than the areas nearby to mimic paint being rubbed off.
p51d_s
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26964)
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p51d_e
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26966)
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p51d_p
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26968)
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Looks great. One tweak I'd make is to adjust the red on the fuel caps. Your red is too dark and deep.
Will do. I went too far from them being lighter before. Will adjust that.
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It looks really good Vraciu, excellent skin and definitely your best one yet. The lighting levels on the skin are convincing, the panel lines' reduced specularity prevents them being washed out over the sun-reflected areas. The colours are nicely muted too. The paint chips and dirt levels are not overdone but make it look like its been in a war, not an airshow.
A couple of minor quibbles: There seems to be something odd going on with the panel lines on the flaps, ailerons and tail surfaces. It looks like the drop highlights are far more powerful in these areas than the rest of the skin. Also the D-Day stripes on the wing fillet don't quite line up with those on the fuselage.
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It looks really good Vraciu, excellent skin and definitely your best one yet. The lighting levels on the skin are convincing, the panel lines' reduced specularity prevents them being washed out over the sun-reflected areas. The colours are nicely muted too. The paint chips and dirt levels are not overdone but make it look like its been in a war, not an airshow.
A couple of minor quibbles: There seems to be something odd going on with the panel lines on the flaps, ailerons and tail surfaces. It looks like the drop highlights are far more powerful in these areas than the rest of the skin. Also the D-Day stripes on the wing fillet don't quite line up with those on the fuselage.
Thank you, sir. I'm trying. I owe you a lot of thanks for the back and forth privately (Devil, too). Grateful you didn't tell me where to "go" lol.
The filet stripe alignment is a quirk of the Viewer. Even when they're lined up they will appear to shift around as you move your view angle. It doesn't do it anywhere near that much when flying it in the game. I will check them again but I'm 99 percent sure they're lined up.
That said you made me realize I need to adjust the white there to match the fuselage stripes. I didn't get them on the last pass.
As for the flaps and such are you talking about the lighter spots and seams? I borrowed that effect from the default B. Kinda' like a paint wear thing I guess. What would make it look better? Darkening them?
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Greebo, just checked the filets and they're lined up. You can sorta' see what happens if you look at the shot from the Viewer compared to the one parked in-game. One makes the filet stripe look too far forward, the other too far aft. I've adjusted it a pixel in each direction and this seems to be the best spot for it. My only other option is deleting it, but then it won't match the photos.
Good eye, man. :salute
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Vraciu:
Your much closer. But some how you are not viewing/understanding lighting principles.
To start with everything has some amount of light reflection. When you take the spec channel and make it black, you have removed all specular reflection from the surface, which will not look correct.
The how you have the pannel lines will tend to make the look like dirt is caught in the depression which should look pretty good. But then on the emblem you have removed all spec.
Here are a few images that show specular lighting very well.
Notice how on the SB2U the emblem is being completely washed out at the front.
Now look at the f4f notice the spec on the bottom of the wing. The emblem apears shiny but the inward front of the wing you are still seeing spec highlights but the are spread out much more.
On the F4F bottom emblem on the back side of it, you are seeing environment mapping where you see the highlights.
The dauntless from inside the cockpit shows a semi gloss secular fairly well. Notice how the light is still washing out the grey paint making it look white?
My point is you can make specular and environment less and more, sharper and less sharper. But there should always be some amount on every thing.
Notice the floor, Thats a case of very high spec/power and environment.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26970)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26972)
HiTech
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I think I understand it (at least in the real world as opposed to the exact effects the P and E maps create--I have a layman's grasp at best on those) but I guess the problem I'm having is knowing what specularity to shoot for.
In one photo I have the fuselage markings seem to have the same specularity as the OD paint. If that's the case then I would simply make the areas with markings the same color as the fuselage in the spec maps, right?
Do I need to keep panel lines on the emblems in the spec maps--dark compared to the emblem specularity--or will the darker panel lines on the diffuse be sufficient?
One thing I take from this is to lighten the spec maps where the markings are. That's easy enough. Let me get on that. Thanks for the help. :salute
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That SBD wing is a great angle, btw.
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I'd expect most of the colours used on this aircraft to have similar specularity to each other, so yes you could just delete the markings layer or at least reduce its opacity on all three maps until the markings are only subtly visible. That sort of contrast is usually only used on NMF aircraft. On my skins I'd probably have the painted areas of the power map a bit darker than yours to scatter the light more and the environment map darker still, as matt paint isn't good at reflecting its environment.
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I'd expect most of the colours used on this aircraft to have similar specularity to each other, so yes you could just delete the markings layer or at least reduce its opacity on all three maps until the markings are only subtly visible. That sort of contrast is usually only used on NMF aircraft. On my skins I'd probably have the painted areas of the power map a bit darker than yours to scatter the light more and the environment map darker still, as matt paint isn't good at reflecting its environment.
That's why I'm still doing it that way I guess.
I'll tweak it some more. :salute
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The other problem I'm having with specularity is the effect this has on the shape. The Mustang nose has a bend that flares up when you have anything lighter than a super dark gray spec level. When you flatten the reflectivity it hides that. But then the rest of the skin has to be fairly flat to match it.
On airplane's with the anti-glare panel this isn't a problem, but on this airplane...with the entire top being OD....I'm not sure the contrast will look right.
You can sorta see it here. It bends at the point about halfway down the exhaust stacks. The shine highlights it a bit.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26960
I have to go super flat to mask that. The default does, too, I believe, but it has the anti-glare panel and thus doesn't look odd.
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Looks great. One tweak I'd make is to adjust the red on the fuel caps. Your red is too dark and deep.
You mentioned on Fencer's 190D to feather the stab into the fuselage. I got the stab top/bottom blended. How would you approach where it meets the fuselage?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26975)
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Paint the edge of the lower stab with OD green.
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Paint the edge of the lower stab with OD green.
Will do.
Hitech, I tweaked the specular for the markings. They're not glossy, but they have a slight sheen. You can see the curve of the wing and fuselage in them now. The white washes out the panel lines no matter what I try, but that's okay I guess.
The color is slightly off because GIMP does a better job when it converts to 32-bit BMP than PSP 5 does with 24-bit. It's subtle but it makes a difference.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26977)
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Now that is acceptable. Not perfect, but much better than what you originally submitted.
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Now that is acceptable. Not perfect, but much better than what you originally submitted.
Awesome. I will keep tweaking it some more to make it better then I will throw it in for your review. PM with any suggestions if you prefer not roasting me in public! LOL :) :salute
Thanks everyone for their input. We'll keep improving it. <S>
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Paint the edge of the lower stab with OD green.
Not sure if it should be more obvious, but it is definitely breaking up the stark straight line.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=26979)
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Looks good. Just noticeable enough.
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Looks good. Just noticeable enough.
Awesome. This change will help with two of my Bs. Thanks!
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As for the flaps and such are you talking about the lighter spots and seams? I borrowed that effect from the default B. Kinda' like a paint wear thing I guess. What would make it look better? Darkening them?
What I see is bright lines offsetting the panel lines by one pixel on just the flaps and tail surfaces. If this is a drop highlight it should be a lot less powerful and should match the highlights on the rest of the skin. If it is paint wear it should be a lot less continuous, just random small patches of it as on your gun hatches etc. The control surfaces would not normally have that much wear anyway, you mainly get that on areas you've paint chipped, the wing where it is walked on, the leading edges of the wings and on the edges of hatches. If it were me I'd just get rid of them.
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From the factory weren't the wing panels except for the fillet, flap, aileron, and removable panels filled with putty then painted with aluminum lacquer? You would have more of a ghost indent at the panel lines and rivets.
I suspect all of you know this page in your sleep.
http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/north-american-p-51d-mustang-in-detail-revisited-part-2-wings-and-tails/
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From the factory weren't the wing panels except for the fillet, flap, aileron, and removable panels filled with putty then painted with aluminum lacquer? You would have more of a ghost indent at the panel lines and rivets.
I suspect all of you know this page in your sleep.
http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/north-american-p-51d-mustang-in-detail-revisited-part-2-wings-and-tails/
Yep. But popular consensus seems to be that while that's more realistic it's bad for immersion. So I've intentionally hardened the effects of rivets and panels on the wings. I'm still more subtle than many.
I'm working on it though. I will keep experimenting for something that will do both.
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What I see is bright lines offsetting the panel lines by one pixel on just the flaps and tail surfaces. If this is a drop highlight it should be a lot less powerful and should match the highlights on the rest of the skin. If it is paint wear it should be a lot less continuous, just random small patches of it as on your gun hatches etc. The control surfaces would not normally have that much wear anyway, you mainly get that on areas you've paint chipped, the wing where it is walked on, the leading edges of the wings and on the edges of hatches. If it were me I'd just get rid of them.
I've toned down the lines. I am going for a slightly reflected seam edge. Will eliminate the rest later--or darken them. Going to experiment a little to see what looks best.
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Soften all but the gun panels and inspection plates and you will be there. Especially if when the sun reflects at an angle it's like looking at painted over flush rivet dimples. In the photos from the restoration, you still see the lines, they are soft.
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I'll try it.
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Okay, we played a bit with the power and specular. Put these in your folder and take a look at it in the game.
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Will do, sir. Standby one I shall return.
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Okay, we played a bit with the power and specular. Put these in your folder and take a look at it in the game.
You brightened the Power map considerably and gave a slight bump in lightness to the Spec map. It looks good to me. Will this get it over the finish line? :pray The change is not particularly dramatic--barely noticeable really--but it works. The surface shape shows a little more in the sunlight than before I think... No complaints on it from me.
Thank you for tweaking it. :salute
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Hey I found a screenshot of the old "Horse Itch" skin. You can see how much better and detailed your new version is:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/P-51D-Horses-Itch.jpg)
Came from a thread back in 2011 where I proposed swapping it out to get Cactus' "Dizzy Rebel" in the game:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312216.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312216.0.html)
Back then the limit was 16 skins per plane. We're up to 32 now but are still running into the same problem, with the P-51D at least. I'd still think it'd be great to see the earlier P-51D without the tail fillet added, so that skins can be created for their historically accurate airframe. Same goes for having the birdcage P-51B re-introduced as an additional P-51B model. The Malcolm canopy was fitted only on a portion of ETO '51Bs - so all the CBI and MTO P-51B skin are incorrectly shown with a bubble canopy.
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Hey I found a screenshot of the old "Horse Itch" skin. You can see how much better and detailed your new version is:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/P-51D-Horses-Itch.jpg)
Came from a thread back in 2011 where I proposed swapping it out to get Cactus' "Dizzy Rebel" in the game:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312216.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312216.0.html)
Back then the limit was 16 skins per plane. We're up to 32 now but are still running into the same problem, with the P-51D at least. I'd still think it'd be great to see the earlier P-51D without the tail fillet added, so that skins can be created for their historically accurate airframe. Same goes for having the birdcage P-51B re-introduced as an additional P-51B model. The Malcolm canopy was fitted only on a portion of ETO '51Bs - so all the CBI and MTO P-51B skin are incorrectly shown with a bubble canopy.
Wow, Oboe! What a find!
Skinning sure has evolved in a few short years, huh? :salute
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To be sure, mate.
HTC has given skinners more control over how the material looks, and I think increased the maximum texture size allowing more detail a couple of times. Also, skins get into the game much faster now. Skuzzy has made real improvements in the amount of time it takes to get skins in or out of the game.
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To be sure, mate.
HTC has given skinners more control over how the material looks, and I think increased the maximum texture size allowing more detail a couple of times. Also, skins get into the game much faster now. Skuzzy has made real improvements in the amount of time it takes to get skins in or out of the game.
Well said. They've really done a good job on the skinning system overall. The changes have really allowed skin quality to improve exponentially.
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Oh, and I agree on the idea of some additional versions of the 51. It would open up lots of slots. :cheers:
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Thanks for the compliment. Forgot to say that. :salute
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You're welcome. :salute
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I'm super excited to fly this skin, Vraciu! I'm so glad you've kept up the hard work and open mind and glad for all the rest here helping out! I wish more folks did their best to keep the community here strong like this, we need to hold onto numbers and blossom even if we have our differences, but I digress! :salute
:cheers:
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I'm super excited to fly this skin, Vraciu! I'm so glad you've kept up the hard work and open mind and glad for all the rest here helping out! I wish more folks did their best to keep the community here strong like this, we need to hold onto numbers and blossom even if we have our differences, but I digress! :salute
:cheers:
Thanks man. It's submitted. Skuzzy and Hitech helped me out on the spec maps. Hopefully you will see it next tour.
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Vraciu,
Thanks for your hard work and thanks for the messages and replies. The white nose did not sit well with me at such a late date. The 357th only had those on very early P-51B/Cs. I did some digging and found a reference to this machine in Merle Olmsted's "To War With the Yoxford Boys" This is the definitive work on the unit. Mr Olmsted was an enlisted ground crew in the group and later became the unit historian.
Here is what he has to say about this white nose:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1917.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1918.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1919.JPG)
I think it would be a mistake to add a 357th Mustang without the iconic checkering. Can you please reconsider adding the checkering?
S!
Fyvsix
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You're welcome. Any time.
Part of the allure for this skin is the white nose. Without any definitive evidence it was a judgment call on my part.
I am always open to revisiting this, of course, but the evidence is inconclusive in my mind so I went with the white.
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I'm sorry to hear that, If I did and find some pics of the other planes in the photo showing the checkering would that be proof enough?
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I'm sorry to hear that, If I did and find some pics of the other planes in the photo showing the checkering would that be proof enough?
It sure would help. What I really need are more pics of the subject aircraft. It's frustrating to have only two up close, both cropped. The others I have are at a distance.
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Not sure if this helps Vraciu - you might have already seen this...
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/165/pics/3_82_b1.jpg)
Here's Hurry Home Honey from Bud Anderson's P-51. Weren't Ed and Bud in the same 357th right? It would then be easy to assume that the noses were actual red-yellow checkered from the fall of 1944...I'm not sure if Ed's P-51 might of been from June's scheme... (they changed up their paint camo's regularly...) However, in B&W photos, Red/yellow turns up dark, not white.
(http://www.cebudanderson.com/images/p51dhhhtwotone.jpg)
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Horses Itch is clearly a white nose...
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/357g/b6-d2.jpg)
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Figured out why Ed's was white and his mates were yellow-red checkered. The wing commander's nose was always white. Before Ed, Colonel Henry Spicer's P-51 had a white nose as well on his P-51B. Ed was just continuing on with tradition with the lead in white and the rest red-yellow checkered. Mystery solved :)
Ed's wing
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/26a8da54814d4a0f14faabc6afc1d549.jpg)
Henry's wing
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/923a8c31a6b05204a651c02fc02add06.jpg)
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Nice find, MisterFork! I t makes much more sense than trying to blame the film used for the supposed disappearance of the checkerboarding.
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I think you guys are jumping to the conclusion you want. I have seen multiple pictures of known checkered aircraft that appear white or very faint. I would believe the ground crewman that helped paint them. I'll post some more pics when I can get home.
S!
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Figured out why Ed's was white and his mates were yellow-red checkered. The wing commander's nose was always white. Before Ed, Colonel Henry Spicer's P-51 had a white nose as well on his P-51B. Ed was just continuing on with tradition with the lead in white and the rest red-yellow checkered. Mystery solved :)
Ed's wing
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/26a8da54814d4a0f14faabc6afc1d549.jpg)
Henry's wing
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/923a8c31a6b05204a651c02fc02add06.jpg)
Thanks, Fork.
I have also heard it was yellow because the red checkering had not been added yet.
Certainly popular perception is a white nose. I love the look. I would hate for it to be disproven. Guess we will see...
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I think you guys are jumping to the conclusion you want. I have seen multiple pictures of known checkered aircraft that appear white or very faint. I would believe the ground crewman that helped paint them. I'll post some more pics when I can get home.
S!
We just have to make our best judgment call on it... <S>
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Ok if we are going with the Group Leader (not Wing Commander lol) was the only one with white noses... then how do you explain the other planes in that second photo that fyvsix posted.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1918.JPG)
The 357th had long got away from white noses. If it was formation identification it would have been on the tail.
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I have NOTHING that says definitively that Horse's Itch had a checkered nose. I have one source that says they "believe" it was checkered. One that says they "believe" it was yellow. Everything else shows white.
I'm not closed-minded about it. I simply have no definitive proof that it was NOT white. So for now it is white and we'll revisit the issue when more data comes in.
It sucks that the nose is outside the frame. :bhead
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Figured out why Ed's was white and his mates were yellow-red checkered. The wing commander's nose was always white. Before Ed, Colonel Henry Spicer's P-51 had a white nose as well on his P-51B. Ed was just continuing on with tradition with the lead in white and the rest red-yellow checkered. Mystery solved :)
This argument does not hold water. This is just reaching for a coincidence. Tony Boy is an early B/C from March. All the noses were white then.
Here is a picture of Col Graham who replaces Spicer, with a clearly checkered P-51D B6-W.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1952.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1953.JPG)
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And that B&W photo clearly shows checkered but I can't find anything on ed's plane with a checkered. If it had, there is no evidence of it. Conversely, there's nothing indicating that white nose for the group leadt wasn't used to identify. I was making the argument based on Ed (who replaced Henry).
Historical photos all show the Itch with white. And if his previous boss had a white nose- well, cause and effect no. Regardless, with all the history photos online and on the internet, of the Itch had a checkered nose, no one took a picture of it. :salute
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Vraicu,
Hey in case you do not know, the guy who wrote the book he is referencing was a crew chief in the 357th and became their historian after the war. He has published several books on his Group. If you are going to take the word of anyone he is the guy. He talked to and gather pictures from all the people he could get ahold of from the group for decades.
Also remember LOU IV... Blue in the formation picture and taken for granted as "it's a photo" to the point that many people just accepted it, until enough of the actual 361st Group members laughed it out of town.
(http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry/images/p51-4463350-2.jpg)
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I'm aware of who he is. :salute
I remain unconvinced. His statement is less than definitive. There is as yet nothing to rule it out either way.
IRT the other point... Many eyewitnesses described the color on Lou IV et al. as blue. Without physical proof it is what it is.
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I'm well aware of who he is.
I remain unconvinced. His statement is less than definitive. There is as yet nothing to rule it out either way.
IRT the other point... Many eyewitnesses described the color on Lou IV et al. as blue. Without physical proof it is what it is.
Ok good enough, your skin your interpretation to defend.
Cheers
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Ok if we are going with the Group Leader (not Wing Commander lol) was the only one with white noses... then how do you explain the other planes in that second photo that fyvsix posted.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1918.JPG)
The 357th had long got away from white noses. If it was formation identification it would have been on the tail.
The aircraft in this picture are as follows:
413518 B6-D Ed Hiro HORSE"S ITCH
413681 B6-F Don Bochkay WINGED ACE OF CLUBS
413522 B6-G William O'Brien BILLY'S squeak
41372 B6-V Robert Foy RELUCTANT REBEL
Here is a different shot of 3 of the same aircraft with the same washed out noses, but you can see some of the color bands on the prop hub on B6-F and some checkering on B6-G:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1949.JPG)
Here is 413522 B6-G William O'Brien BILLY'S squeak clearly showing a checkered nose.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1944.JPG)
Here is 41372 B6-V Robert Foy RELUCTANT REBEL showing faint checkering and propeller bands that are almost washed out.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1957.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1958.JPG)
Here are some picture of known checkered aircraft which are showing white due to being washed out.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1939.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1941.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1950.JPG)
Finally, here is a picture of horses itch stating the type of film being used as Panchromatic film in bright sunlight.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1940.JPG)
I hope this helps you see that the noses were not white. The 357th was a very proud unit and these colors were for identification as well as unit pride. It makes no sense for the CO to have a different color. You do not see that in the 8th air force's other groups either.
S!
Fyvsix
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I'm not convinced either about the nose being checkered. The overall fidelity of the photo Horse's Itch does not lend it's self to only washing out reds and yellow and making them appear white when all of the other subtle variations are maintained. If the nose was checkered, both colors should not match the the tone of white stripes. Furthermore, some evidence of the checkers should be seen in the shaded regions of the lower nose if it were indeed checkered, but there is no evidence of different colors.
Also, in the picture of the rear fuselage the yellow of the serial number is a darker shade than the white stripes. If the film was the culprit of some color blend, the serial should match the stripes in that case also.
As far as I'm concerned, the nose of Horse's Itch was white when photographed.
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The washed out effect is aparent in several pictures, however it does not appear that way on Horse's Itch. Not even a hint of checkering where as the other photos with checkering do have the effect of being washed out.
There are casses where people, even present during the events, can have mistaken memory recall. It is easy for our minds to assume certain common atributes if we are around several planes with a specific nose patterns that all of the planes were the same. Casses like this have been proven by several acceptional psychologists in a court of law that memory recall is not as reliable as we like to believe.
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Ok good enough, your skin your interpretation to defend.
Cheers
Thanks for weighing in, sir. I mean it sincerely. :salute
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The aircraft in this picture are as follows:
413518 B6-D Ed Hiro HORSE"S ITCH
413681 B6-F Don Bochkay WINGED ACE OF CLUBS
413522 B6-G William O'Brien BILLY'S squeak
41372 B6-V Robert Foy RELUCTANT REBEL
Here is a different shot of 3 of the same aircraft with the same washed out noses, but you can see some of the color bands on the prop hub on B6-F and some checkering on B6-G:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1949.JPG[/img]
Here is 413522 B6-G William O'Brien BILLY'S squeak clearly showing a checkered nose.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1944.JPG[/img]
Here is 41372 B6-V Robert Foy RELUCTANT REBEL showing faint checkering and propeller bands that are almost washed out.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1957.JPG[/img]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1958.JPG[/img]
Here are some picture of known checkered aircraft which are showing white due to being washed out.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1939.JPG[/img]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1941.JPG[/img]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1950.JPG[/img]
Finally, here is a picture of horses itch stating the type of film being used as Panchromatic film in bright sunlight.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1940.JPG[/img]
I hope this helps you see that the noses were not white. The 357th was a very proud unit and these colors were for identification as well as unit pride. It makes no sense for the CO to have a different color. You do not see that in the 8th air force's other groups either.
S!
Fyvsix
I respect that. I also understand traditionalists. They were no doubt proud of their white noses, too.
Exceptions prove the rule. Just look at my 4th FG skin of Maj. Hively' QP-J. It is the only 4th FG P-51D painted olive drab--but it existed.
I'm certainly no ideologue here, but the white nose rings true in this instance. (And it looks damned good.) If it is proven otherwise I will certainly revisit the issue.
Look at the bright side. Because this skin is unique...it means OLD CROW and GLAMOUROUS GLEN III will be allowed in without being seen as duplicative. You'll have two or three skins for the 357th.
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Devil, Owl, Oboe, and Fork have good points. Thank you for expressing them.
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^^^ The new, (and improved), Vraciu ^^^
:salute
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I respect that. I also understand traditionalists. They were no doubt proud of their white noses, too.
Exceptions prove the rule. Just look at my 4th FG skin of Maj. Hively' QP-J. It is the only 4th FG P-51D painted olive drab--but it existed.
I'm certainly no ideologue here, but the white nose rings true in this instance. (And it looks damned good.) If it is proven otherwise I will certainly revisit the issue.
Look at the bright side. Because this skin is unique...it means OLD CROW and GLAMOUROUS GLEN will be allowed in without being seen as duplicative. You'll have two or three skins for the 357th.
Thanks for hearing me out. I respect your choice as the one doing the work. I'll give it a whirl in game for sure. I'd love to see a few of the other 357th skins as well.
S!
Fyvsix
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Thanks for hearing me out. I respect your choice as the one doing the work. I'll give it a whirl in game for sure. I'd love to see a few of the other 357th skins as well.
S!
Fyvsix
You're welcome. Let there be no doubt...I take this stuff seriously. If you think otherwise (I know you don't) feel free to read this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,385567.0.html
I was emotionally devastated when this skin was originally rejected. Maj. Hiro's story got to me on a deep and personal level unlike any I've read in a *LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG* time. I actually cried about it, much to my personal dismay. It was almost embarrassing. Thanks to Devil, Oboe, Owl, Greebo, Fencer, Zoney, Arlo, etc. etc. I was able to take a step back and calm down. Once I realized what the issue was I could rationally approach it again, and with the help of all these people (and others, like Skuzzy and Hitech who *ACTIVELY* worked on my skin with me--for which I will always be grateful), get it into the game.
In no way do I ever intend to represent the skin improperly. Major Edwin Hiro deserves better than that on any level. That said, part of why this ace is still remembered has to have something to do with that white nose. That has a poignancy of its own.
I still have work to do on this one, but along with "Ding Hao!" it is my best work. It will never live up to my peers/mentors/friends here, nor Maj. Hiro, but in some small way it shows my love for all of them. And you, too. Because I totally understand your perspective, passion, and input with deep and sincere appreciation. :salute
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http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/448
http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/449
http://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/56102
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http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/449
Money Shot right there
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Checkers it is.
Well done, Lyric.
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I'd seen that one before.
Did not see it labeled as H.I. (not sure what it was listed as).
Well, there we go I guess. Unless the others are tweeners...
(That wing leading edge paint erosion is definitely a match for B6-D either way.)
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Money Shot right there
Now I can see evidence on that photo of what one could argue is a checkered patern.
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Now I can see evidence on that photo of what one could argue is a checkered patern.
So now some forensics. I don't have this at hand but... The date between Hiro's third victory and the photo in question....compared to the other photos we have of the airplane. Where do they fall in the timeline?
I will dig it up eventually, but today has not been a good one. I'm pretty wrung out. :frown:
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357th Fan here, I just joined this game. I was flying your skin for my first two kills. ;) I did some looking and here are the dates for Hiro's victory credits:
4-24-44 x1
5-19-44 x2
7-30-44 x1
9-19-44 x1
He was KIA 9-18-44 according to my source
Kit
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Thanks man. Congrats! :aok
The skin has been improved already. We never catch all the mistakes the first time through.
I show fourth and fifth victories on his final mission. Did I miss something along the way?
Cheers.
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I'm working on a checkered nose because at least we know that's how his plane was for his last mission (and some time prior).
What is the date for the transition to checkered noses and do we know any dates for the photos of the "white" nose that are firm?
19 May 1944 is when his third victory was scored. So the argument for a white nose and three victory marks can only fall (roughly) between 19 May (second and third victories) and 30 July 1944 (fourth victory).
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All isn't lost - his aircraft DID have a white nose for some time and later obviously they had switched them all to the red/yellow checker. Guess the question is ...WHEN? When did they switch out the white nose for the yellow/red?
Did Hiro fly the P-51B with the malcom hood and then upgraded to the P-51D?
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Gents,
I've been thinking about this a little more.
One more point supporting the white nose being a film anomaly.
The 357th D/K model mustangs were received from the states with a bare finish and painted by the group. They thought they may be going over to to continent or doing low alt work where the camo would be a benefit. There was some OD paint and some shade of local RAF green according to my books. The first D mustangs were received right around D-Day, several months after they standardized on the checkered noses.
When they painted them up they would have done the nose as well as the fuselage and wings etc.. It makes no sense for it to have a white nose when you look at the evidence. The airframes in the background of the four ship picture are all known to have checkering, but they appear white as in the photo. I think we should take the work of group historian Merle Olmsted and count this up as washed out film.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/IMG_1918.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/1327712/357/IMG_1949.JPG)
S!
Fyv
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I'm working on a checkered nose because at least we know that's how his plane was for his last mission (and some time prior).
What is the date for the transition to checkered noses and do we know any dates for the photos of the "white" nose that are firm?
19 May 1944 is when his third victory was scored. So the argument for a white nose and three victory marks can only fall (roughly) between 19 May (second and third victories) and 30 July 1944 (fourth victory).
Vraciu,
I think the 8th AAF order for group markings was in March of 44. I've seen checkering on photos/profiles dated March as well. My best guess would be White noses up until early/mid March.
I think his first kills would have been in a 51B/C as the group did not receive the D models until around D-Day.
Hope this helps!
Fyv
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It definitely does. Thank you.
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Vraciu,
I was doing some reading this afternoon and came across another picture of Horses' Itch. It has Maj Hiro with some ground grew and a shot of the planes nose area.
The book is P-51 Mustang Aces by William Ness and Thomas Ivie, page 20.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/kost/IMG_1962_zpsryhojqrn.jpg)
S! Fyvsix
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Is that a side mirror?
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looks like they swiped it off of some British car. :D
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looks like they swiped it off of some British car. :D
:rofl
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looks like they swiped it off of some British car. :D
At least it solves the mystery of the "white circle marking"--it wasn't a marking.
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Vraciu,
I was doing some reading this afternoon and came across another picture of Horses' Itch. It has Maj Hiro with some ground grew and a shot of the planes nose area.
The book is P-51 Mustang Aces by William Ness and Thomas Ivie, page 20.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/kost/IMG_1962_zpsryhojqrn.jpg)
S! Fyvsix
Nice find fyvsix! So, how common were side-view mirrors? :x
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Nice find fyvsix! So, how common were side-view mirrors? :x
Don't tell him thank you. He has cost me an entire day of drawing checkerboarding... :furious
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I'm sure a full day is no exaggeration either.
You have my sympathy.
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I'm sure a full day is no exaggeration either.
You have my sympathy.
Oh, the madness of trying to get everything to line up. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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:eek:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27287)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27293)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27295)
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:aok
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Looking good.
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Thanks guys. I'm walking away from the PC now after about....11 hours of work on this thing (off and on). Those checkerboards are a nightmare... No, you can't just copy and paste them from the B because it doesn't fit. However, I started with that to give me a pattern to work with.
Now that I've finally figured out how to see all my layers and click to them directly (there's a layer palette icon I'd never seen before!) I'm going to be a much happier guy.
I'm gonna' miss the white nose. :(
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Looks like I found a new desktop wallpaper. :D
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Looks like I found a new desktop wallpaper. :D
Right on. I have more improvements to make yet...hopefully they'll be done by Thursday.
Devil, how are we looking on the red and yellow? Desaturate?
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Right on. I have more improvements to make yet...hopefully they'll be done by Thursday.
Devil, how are we looking on the red and yellow? Desaturate?
The only thing I'd consider is maybe making the red little darker to increase contrast with the yellow. The saturation is fine.
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Looks good Vraciu.
And +1 on making the red a little darker - check my photos on the 6th page. I'm now wondering if TONY BOY from Colonel Henry "Russ" Spicer's P-51B was also checkered and the camera photos just washed it out? Brown's CHICAGO GUN MOLL had a checkered, it was a P-51B as well (pre-Malcom hood)
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/923a8c31a6b05204a651c02fc02add06.jpg)
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Looks good Vraciu.
And +1 on making the red a little darker - check my photos on the 6th page. I'm now wondering if TONY BOY from Colonel Henry "Russ" Spicer's P-51B was also checkered and the camera photos just washed it out? Brown's CHICAGO GUN MOLL had a checkered, it was a P-51B as well (pre-Malcom hood)
https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/923a8c31a6b05204a651c02fc02add06.jpg
I prefer the white, myself. I'm leaving it as a sub layer in case we decide someday it should have remained. But I better not tick off the 357th cabal...don't want to wind up with a horse's head 🐴 in my bed. :D
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The only thing I'd consider is maybe making the red little darker to increase contrast with the yellow. The saturation is fine.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27299)
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Nailed it, I think. :aok
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Nailed it, I think. :aok
YES!!! :rock
Thanks.
Finishing up the Invasion Stripes for the bottom of the wings now. Hope to have it submitted tonight for an update next tour.
Question: That side mirror... Can I duplicate it's shape via the normal map or should I just let it go?
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It's not possible to make that kind of shape or that height. The best you could do is simulate the mounting bracket - but then you would have a strange bump that would "stick out" with no explanation for it's existence. Better to have nothing than the obvious and strange thing.
A good analogy is how to handle Luftwaffe skins without swastikas. Better to not have anything than a replacement marking that is incorrect.
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^^^^^^^^^^ Sounds good.
Well, sorry to spam the board but here it is. I have some cleanup to do after I sleep on it, but this is basically how it will look next tour.
Thanks to everyone for their help, research, input, and advice. :salute
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27305)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385287.0;attach=27301)
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Looks amazing. It's my default P-51 skin too! Great work V!
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Looks amazing. It's my default P-51 skin too! Great work V!
Thank you, sir. I appreciate your help on it. This has been quite a group project! :)
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I just noticed that you have a redish stain flowing aft from the fusalage tank fueling point.
Should not fuel spilling during fueling drop down?
Also what is that black circle on the left wing near-on the white ID stripe?
Overall one of your best skins, nicely done.
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It is Vraciu's best work I think. Great-looking subject and nicely done.
The black circle, I think, is an attachment point for a grounding cable (or whatever it is they use) for use during fueling.
I've seen them labeled "GROUND HERE" and they seem to be near each fuel filler cap.
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Yes grounding points, but they appear on only warbirds, period aircraft do not have them afaik.
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I just noticed that you have a redish stain flowing aft from the fusalage tank fueling point.
Should not fuel spilling during fueling drop down?
Also what is that black circle on the left wing near-on the white ID stripe?
Overall one of your best skins, nicely done.
Thanks Fencer. I appreciate that.
I went with the stain running aft to represent air flow as if a tiny bit of the fuel is coming put of the cap in flight.
The grounding points were mentioned by oboe. I will do some additional research on those.
:salute
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It is Vraciu's best work I think. Great-looking subject and nicely done.
The black circle, I think, is an attachment point for a grounding cable (or whatever it is they use) for use during fueling.
I've seen them labeled "GROUND HERE" and they seem to be near each fuel filler cap.
Thanks, bro! :salute
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I wish this photo was a bit larger...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/wrnjr/overall-2.jpg)
Here's a shot that shows two in the same place as the underside. Were these filled?
(http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=893759)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk85/rdriscoll_album/P-51Wing5.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o31/alachetta/IMG_zps6jecly0m.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/inglewood51/p-51-wingfinish5.jpg)
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Those are bolts, 3 total per side, attaching the wing to the fuselage. Here is a photo showing Preddy's plane with the three bolts visible.
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Yes grounding points, but they appear on only warbirds, period aircraft do not have them afaik.
I can see it on some wartime photos. I do not see it on "Horse's Itch" however.
(http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/p51d-b.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7c/04/de/7c04de53a8f855bbcdf186843ab3c8e4.jpg)
(http://languages.oberlin.edu/blogs/gperez/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2016/04/20th_Fighter_Group_P-51D_Mustangs_November_1946_Shaw_Field_SC.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/1/5/a7022757-138-Placement%20P-51%20basic%20stencils%20top.jpg)
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Nice work.
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I'd lose the grounding point on the white ID band. New production airplanes had all their stencils in place, as do most modern warbird restorations. I'd be hard pressed to think the 357th would have taken the time to re stencil things like that when they painted the 51s.
Most 51s that weren't painted had silver painted wings to start but ended up with that paint wearing off as well. Airframe life on operations was never going to be too long and there were too many other things to do besides paint :)
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I was asked to post some links on the subject. But they seem to have been covered in Devils post.
http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/p51d-b.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7c/04/de/7c04de53a8f855bbcdf186843ab3c8e4.jpg
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjzy5bYup_TAhXnw1QKHRGrALEQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.largescaleplanes.com%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D46527&psig=AFQjCNFpG-rep7MODIGAhk1Vvym-QMPbXA&ust=1492105050464131
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyy8Gsu5_TAhWm4IMKHXO9DwIQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Flanguages.oberlin.edu%2Fblogs%2Fgperez%2Foral-history-projects%2Fjose-mendiola%2Fmilitary-service-the-air-force-was-an-adventure%2F&psig=AFQjCNGKF-Wg7w_0jPUyItPECkEUWwFLSQ&ust=1492105208534046
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiOyNS7u5_TAhVK54MKHYhODAcQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fmarkradcliff3%2Fairplanes%2F&psig=AFQjCNGKF-Wg7w_0jPUyItPECkEUWwFLSQ&ust=1492105208534046
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KOWABUNGA!!!! Vraciu...... :salute
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KOWABUNGA!!!! Vraciu...... :salute
Thank you kindly, sir.
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Nice work.
Thank you. :salute
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I'd lose the grounding point on the white ID band. New production airplanes had all their stencils in place, as do most modern warbird restorations. I'd be hard pressed to think the 357th would have taken the time to re stencil things like that when they painted the 51s.
Most 51s that weren't painted had silver painted wings to start but ended up with that paint wearing off as well. Airframe life on operations was never going to be too long and there were too many other things to do besides paint :)
Many stencils were reapplied including some on this airplane. That said I went with a compromise. I put a grounding port just outboard of the stripe with no markings.
I also added the bolt holes Fencer showed us. It looks better than a plain OD wing that way...
I'll post one more set of photos for review then it goes to the update queue.
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^^^ The new, (and improved), Vraciu ^^^
:salute
Zoney is my friend.
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Well done on a great looking skin Vraciu, I can't think of anything you need to change. The checker nose makes for a more interesting scheme.
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I might actually fly the P-51 more often now. :D
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Well done on a great looking skin Vraciu, I can't think of anything you need to change. The checker nose makes for a more interesting scheme.
Thank you Sensei. High praise suitable for framing by my desk. :)
:salute
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I might actually fly the P-51 more often now. :D
Lol!
:)
:cheers:
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Disregard. Posted in error. Will follow up later... :salute
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Tagged.................... :old:
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Tagged.................... :old:
Lol. Pull your finger! :old: