You've lost what little mind you have left sir...Im sure you enjoyed Flyboys.
Historical inaccuracies, some really poor/hazy aerial shots, a weak love story/crisis, and story arcs that disappear into thin air. Not to mention it became really obvious when the 2.111s were returned to the Spanish Air Force (retired?) and they had only two to wrap up the film with. That is jarring.
As I said, it's decent, but it missed the mark.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Devil 505 on April 05, 2017, 05:06:58 PM
The original is great for it's time, but by the standards of modern film (as in the last 40 years or so) it does show its flaws.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2017, 05:51:34 PM
Some mistakes here and there but of interest any way for those wondering about the airplane's used in the film...
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/aircraft.htm
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Oldman731 on April 05, 2017, 08:38:29 PM
The original is great for it's time, but by the standards of modern film (as in the last 40 years or so) it does show its flaws.
Heh. Like using real planes instead of CGIs?
- oldman
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 05, 2017, 09:38:07 PM
Lets not make another Red Tails... What I wish they'd do is make a remastered version of the Battle of Britain, but they won't coz there's no money in it. Cleaning up the film and colors, cleaning up the sound and effects. Redoing the obviously hand drawn fire and explosion effects and syncing the strafing scenes they botched and couldn't afford to re-shoot.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Devil 505 on April 05, 2017, 09:54:17 PM
I mean like characterization, acting, pacing, and camerawork on the ground. While the aerial cinematography was superb and revolutionary, the rest of the film is very much of the old breed of film making.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Gman on April 06, 2017, 09:23:29 PM
I posted this a couple years ago, the Wilson "Connie" Edwards story, he collected a bunch of the 109/Spanglish planes and was involved in flying in the original BoB film. This is great news, Scott is great, and this is probably my most anticipated upcoming film now. Yay!
Great pics in the article, great video as well, only 8ish minutes, but worth it. Connie was a little koo koo for Coco Puffs with some of his statements, discussed this in the past thread a couple years back, I'll try and find it - he claimed the 109s could climb at 6k fpm and some other questionable stuff. Perhaps the stripped and hot rodded movie/prop 109s could so some of the things he said, but I doubt the L/W ones did.
edit - Old thread, if anyone cares. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,371385.msg4951321.html#msg4951321
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 06, 2017, 10:57:46 PM
Connie was a little koo koo for Coco Puffs with some of his statements, discussed this in the past thread a couple years back, I'll try and find it - he claimed the 109s could climb at 6k fpm and some other questionable stuff.
Not at all questionable. A standard 109G has 1450hp and climbs 4,500 ft/m. The 109Gs he flew were the 420 mph post-war Spanish Buchon variant with a 1,600 hp Merlin. With guns and armor removed it would be a rocket ship.
A standard loaded Buchon in service condition had a climb rate of 5,577 ft/min.
Perhaps show a little more respect for people with vastly more experience and knowledge than you...
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Guppy35 on April 06, 2017, 11:30:34 PM
I mean like characterization, acting, pacing, and camerawork on the ground. While the aerial cinematography was superb and revolutionary, the rest of the film is very much of the old breed of film making.
I don't care what anyone thinks about the film. The most important thing it did was save and get a lot of warbirds going again, jump starting the interest in them and of course the money followed. Look at all the Spits, Hurricanes and 109s now flying. We'd never have gotten this far without that film getting the ball rolling.
That and it's still a classic :)
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: BBQsam on April 07, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
100+ warbirds used in the BoB movie!
Someone needs to take V to the toolshed and throttle him with a blackponyskin!
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
I posted this a couple years ago, the Wilson "Connie" Edwards story, he collected a bunch of the 109/Spanglish planes and was involved in flying in the original BoB film. This is great news, Scott is great, and this is probably my most anticipated upcoming film now. Yay!
Great pics in the article, great video as well, only 8ish minutes, but worth it. Connie was a little koo koo for Coco Puffs with some of his statements, discussed this in the past thread a couple years back, I'll try and find it - he claimed the 109s could climb at 6k fpm and some other questionable stuff. Perhaps the stripped and hot rodded movie/prop 109s could so some of the things he said, but I doubt the L/W ones did.
edit - Old thread, if anyone cares. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,371385.msg4951321.html#msg4951321
I know Connie Edwards. Also knew Lefty Gardner, Lloyd Nolan, etc.. These are/were some pretty amazing guys and some of the best stick and rudder men who ever lived. If they say it can be done believe them--because they've done it.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2017, 08:32:57 AM
Perhaps show a little more respect for people with vastly more experience and knowledge than you...
Irony. My favorite thing. :D
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Gman on April 07, 2017, 06:55:51 PM
Regarding the film, some decent names are being attached already, Matt Charman who wrote/EP'd "Bridge of SPies" for Spielberg is working on the script and will EP, as well as Matthew Orton, who wrote "Operation Finale", another WW2 subject matter film. It's still in early development stages, and won't be shooting for a couple years at least. I wonder how many real aircraft they'll use with the CGI...
Regarding PRedator, he seems to have changed his mind since Connie last came up (link from last post). http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,371385.msg4951321.html#msg4951321
Quote
Fighter pilots (and pilots in general) have a lot in common with fishermen when it comes to telling stories...- Predator
I don't see how saying someone who has been known to exaggerate (from others in the Warbirds community), has said something a little out there regarding wartime 109s outclimbing Spits/51s by nearly double, and out turning/fighting them easily as well, is in any way "disrespectful". Some guys just need to construct arguments/fights I guess...
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 07, 2017, 07:18:26 PM
Regarding PRedator, he seems to have changed his mind since Connie last came up...
Not at all. Pilots are like fishermen, but in this case Connie's claim is not unreasonable considering the known performance of the Buchon. It is very believable that a light Buchon can climb at 6,000+ ft/min.
I don't see how saying someone who has been known to exaggerate (from others in the Warbirds community), has said something a little out there regarding wartime 109s...
He didn't say anything about "wartime 109s". That just you being totally disingenuous. He flew the Spit9 and the Buchon during the production of the Battle of Britain. To my knowledge he never flew "a wartime 109". And he is not alone in his admiration for the Buchon.
https://youtu.be/TFl8X4y9-94
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Regarding the film, some decent names are being attached already, Matt Charman who wrote/EP'd "Bridge of SPies" for Spielberg is working on the script and will EP, as well as Matthew Orton, who wrote "Operation Finale", another WW2 subject matter film. It's still in early development stages, and won't be shooting for a couple years at least. I wonder how many real aircraft they'll use with the CGI...
Regarding PRedator, he seems to have changed his mind since Connie last came up (link from last post). http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,371385.msg4951321.html#msg4951321 I don't see how saying someone who has been known to exaggerate (from others in the Warbirds community), has said something a little out there regarding wartime 109s outclimbing Spits/51s by nearly double, and out turning/fighting them easily as well, is in any way "disrespectful". Some guys just need to construct arguments/fights I guess...
I'd love to know who these "others" are?
There's a lot of butthurt out there directed (unfairly) at Edwards. The guy had more hours inverted in these planes than these guys ever will in total--and that was before many of them were born.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Nefarious on April 07, 2017, 07:58:10 PM
Sure, I love real airplanes. But honestly, I don't care how much CGI is used so as long as it's believable and done really well.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Gman on April 07, 2017, 08:32:41 PM
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned. AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2. It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous. Predator to the rescue again.
Vraciu - the other people besides Bodhi here - Todd Lemieux, I grew up with him, he is the CEO of Vintage Wings Canada(Chairman now), owns several Warbirds, and a Citabria I've posted vid of us flying in here before. VWC has a fleet of a dozen or so WW2 a/c under his control. I got the original video and story on the 109s from BoB I posted from his Facebook page, Vintage Canada had done business many times with Connie over the years.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned. AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2. It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous. Predator to the rescue again.
Vraciu - the other people besides Bodhi here - Todd Lemieux, I grew up with him, he is the CEO of Vintage Wings Canada(Chairman now), owns several Warbirds, and a Citabria I've posted vid of us flying in here before. VWC has a fleet of a dozen or so WW2 a/c under his control. I got the original video and story on the 109s from BoB I posted from his Facebook page, Vintage Canada had done business many times with Connie over the years.
Context is everything. All things being equal in a 1 v 1 he thinks the 109--or at least the Buchon--is superior to the P-51/Spit. He has more time in all of them combined than probably anyone still alive. He is not speaking from a viewpoint of ignorance. (I also believe Galland preferred the 109 to the Spit despite his jab at Goering.)
Connie Edwards was flying these airplane's nearly fifty years before Todd Lemieux was even born... Were it not for Edwards (and the other CAF founders) many would be frying pans now.
And if you don't think mock dogfights in real life warbirds occur then you're misinformed. They do, and opinions vary as to which is better than which.
:salute
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 07, 2017, 09:08:58 PM
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned. AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2. It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous. Predator to the rescue again.
He also said he got "shot down" 72 times in the Spit9 and 128 times in the 109 during the production of the film. That he wasn't actually shot down in any of them is obvious to everyone but you. And he says "the 109 over here" obviously referencing to one of the Buchons, not a wartime 109. Again obvious. If the Luftwaffe had Buchons in 1940 Bruv would be speaking German for sure.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Gman on April 07, 2017, 09:11:17 PM
Yes, I realize there could be mock fights, that's a LOT different than what Connie said though isn't it, and that's my POINT. He referrenced, specifically, that the Spits/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 in the circumstances he was discussing, that's plainly obvious, and the root of my comment - others with just as much time as Connie, even vets who flew the 109 IN the war, have disagreed with what he said in the clip. I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too.
"Shot down 72 times", as in 72 different film takes of blowing smoke, spinning/etc, simulating being shot down for the film, that was a completely different part of the clip than when he described the advantage he felt the 109 had over the allied fighters. Again, he specifically said that the Spit/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 due to its high speed turn performance and, that in climb rate that it could outclimb both by 2000fpm+. It's plainly obvious that when referring how 3 WW2 fighters perform in combat in the "shoot down" sentence, specifically talking about who can shoot who down, he was talking about the war.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2017, 09:13:40 PM
Yes, I realize there could be mock fights, that's a LOT different than what Connie said though isn't it, and that's my POINT. He referrenced, specifically, that the Spits/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 in the circumstances he was discussing, that's plainly obvious, and the root of my comment - others with just as much time as Connie, even vets who flew the 109 IN the war, have disagreed with what he said in the clip. I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too.
Context is everything. He may have used a wrong word (aileron over elevator for example) but he clearly thinks the 109 can outclimb and outturn the Mustang. Some dispute the latter--but most don't. Again, context matters. (A good interviewer would have followed up for the sake of clarity. Still, the following is pretty solid.)
"Given pilots of equal ability...[the Mustang will lose]."
I am not one to doubt Edwards' veracity--or expertise. His opinion is as valid, if not more so, than any other. He certainly speaks with more authority on this subject than a geologist with 100 hours in a T-28.
One thing is for sure, the guy has lived quite a life.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 07, 2017, 09:49:00 PM
I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too.
109 pilots who flew the Buchon? Obviously not. Edwards only has experience with the Buchon so that what he's basing his opinions on. Again obvious.
Equally obvious is your attempt to distance yourself from your original accusation against him:
"Connie was a little koo koo for Coco Puffs with some of his statements, discussed this in the past thread a couple years back, I'll try and find it - he claimed the 109s could climb at 6k fpm and some other questionable stuff."
A Buchon climbing "6k fpm" is not at all "questionable stuff," especially since he actually claimed 5,800 ft/min in the video. That's only 233 ft/min more than a fully loaded Buchon. Nor is Edwards "koo koo for Coco Puffs" in any way.
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: JimmyC on April 07, 2017, 11:51:34 PM
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 08, 2017, 11:02:31 AM
Michael Caine has always been a great actor. Good sequence...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SkFkwLNucyM
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 08, 2017, 12:42:02 PM
If they have the original film stock a lot can be done to freshen up the movie. Clean up the film and colors and use a more modern grade. Faster action cuts with more aggressive sound effects and score. Some guy on the internet cut various scenes from BoB to match the sound of The Sky Crawlers, a Japanese anime. Imagine what someone like Ridley Scott could do...
https://youtu.be/oEL6ujmemDE?t=354
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Vraciu on April 08, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Faster cuts give me ADD.
Try fewer.
Count the cuts here... Perhaps the best arse chewing ever filmed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOGl_7a2nWU
Heck, the title scene in SINGIN' IN THE RAIN only had seven. Today it would be half as long and have 37.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w40ushYAaYA
Title: Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
Post by: Mister Fork on April 10, 2017, 12:10:41 AM
Getting back to the topic at hand.. IMDB listing for BoB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6736650/)