Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Toad on April 07, 2017, 01:23:38 PM
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Gentlemen:
I haven't played AH steadily for a LONG time. Rude is pushing me to get back into it and I'm open to the idea.
Right now my current setup doesn't provide good frames for air combat, especially in the heavy ack areas. It can chug FPS down into the teens in these areas and that's with most detail pretty low.
So, can I get a significant improvement with a new video card or do I need to build an entirely new hot rod system? Until I play some more and see how things are now in the game, I'm not too excited about dropping big bucks into a whole new system.
What I have now:
ASUS P7P55D Pro mobo running an i7 870 @ 2.93 GHz, 16GB of Corsair DDR3 @ 1600MHz, Win 7 Pro 32bit and the card is a Radeon 7800 series, 750W power supply.
According to Passmark, my Radeon 7800 series is roughly equivalent to a GTX 750Ti. In other words, not bleeding edge and seriously trailing the leaders of the pack these days.
I have the power and the room to drop in something like a GTX 1060 or a Radeon RX 480 for a small expense. If I did, could I get 50-60 frames with some detail in the high load areas?
Or does my basic (mobo/cpu/ram) system just not make the cut anymore?
I appreciate any input here.
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The CPU is right on the edge. It could probably power a 1060, but if the frame rate drops it will be due to the CPU not being able to feed the video card fast enough. Overall, it would do well though.
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I hope it's a typo: Win 7 Pro 32bit. If not, the first thing to do is to reinstall Windows to the 64 bit version. 32 bit systems only can use 4 GB of memory, showing even less of it.
Other than that, a GTX 1060 would give you good performance on a single 1920x1080 monitor. People, me included, have got a solid 60 FPS on weaker systems than yours by just changing the video card to 970 or 1060. Note that the power consumption is much less than that of older Nvidia cards and Radeons so it might suite your aging system better.
If you're concerned about the CPU speed, I'm not sure whether an i7-880 @ 3.06 GHz would make any difference. A dual core i5-670 or 680 @ 3.46 to 3.6 GHz might perform better. You can get one used for $70 if needed.
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I hope it's a typo: Win 7 Pro 32bit. If not, the first thing to do is to reinstall Windows to the 64 bit version. 32 bit systems only can use 4 GB of memory, showing even less of it.
Agreed! You will see a pretty good improvement running the Windows 7 64 bit version over the 32 bit version....and most likely have a good increase in frame rate...
Then reassess whether you even need to upgrade your video card right now...
Hope this helps
TC
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I hope it's a typo: Win 7 Pro 32bit. If not, the first thing to do is to reinstall Windows to the 64 bit version. 32 bit systems only can use 4 GB of memory, showing even less of it. <snip>
Missed that entirely. Nice catch Bizman.
Toad, that will kill your performance in AH3. I would not bother upgrading the video card until you got a 64 bit OS. The more memory your video card has the more it will swap into that 32 bit address space which means less memory to run the game.
The memory, above 4GB, is not being used, at all.
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Thanks, Bizman & Skuzzy. We have identified one problem. It is running 32bit. Seems like when I loaded it there was a reason for not doing 64bit or maybe all my previously owned software was 32bit. There was something.
Right now, the Win 7 Pro disk is AWOL in the office. I put it in such a safe place I can't find it! It will turn up but I need to figure out why I didn't do 64 three or four years ago.
Also, I was looking at the "Windows Experience" page and it seems my hard drive may be slow. Scores are Processor 7.5, Memory 7.5, Graphics 7.9, Gaming Graphics 7.9 and Primary Hard Disk 5.9. Seems the HD isn't up to the rest of it.
All in all with what you and Skuzzy have pointed out it seems there is another option that might be quicker/easier.
I have access to a mini-tower Lenovo H50-50 90B700EDUS. There are a few options on improving that for AH. I have played AH on it and it will do about 50 frames with every thing on pretty low settings. Seems to be able to hold that in heavy ack.
It's basic spec is: Lenovo proprietary (ugh) mobo, i7-4790 3.6 GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win 10, GeForce GTX 750 Ti with a minimal proprietary 280w power supply.
Now the quick and dirty upgrade here is to add a EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING, 4GB GDDR5. It's a 300w card supposedly but whats 20 watts amongst friends, right? It might not need a bigger PSU AND it is a very small card (1.5 x 5.7 x 4.38 in) which is key here. The Lenovo mobo has the end of the RAM slot sticking down inline with the PCIe 3.0 slot to where the card must be ≤ 6.4" by my measure.
GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING shows 5826 at Passmark while the GTX 750 Ti shows 3695. It's cheap to upgrade: ~$140. Would it make a significant difference in game?
The other option is new PSU (750w @ $45), new EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING ($240/ Passmark 8556) and a cheap adapter ($15) for the Lenovo proprietary 14 pin mobo power plug. So $300 total.
Here's the catch: that 1060 board length is spec'd at 1.62 x 6.8 x 4.38 in. I have been assured by <cough> MicroCenter</cough> that this board will fit in the Lenovo H50-50. By my measure it is .4" too long but maybe there's a cut or something that clears the RAM slot. Only way to find out is get one and check it out.
So to sum up.
I'm kinda thinking that upgrading the i7-870 2.93GHz machine is not really cost effective given the CPU and the apparently slow HD.
The quick/dirty $140 Lenovo upgrade might improve it enough to let me really check out AH3, the only risk being the 280w PSU vs the stated need for 300w.
The quick $300 upgrade should run AH3 pretty well? Yes/No? Decent CPU, good GPU, enough RAM from what I have been reading.
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Aha! Found the Win 7 disk!
Simple reason I did not install 64bit: It is a 32bit Win 7 Pro install disk.
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Aha! Found the Win 7 disk!
Simple reason I did not install 64bit: It is a 32bit Win 7 Pro install disk.
Toad, you can google "jellybean key finder", it's a free program you can download to find your Windows 7 key, unless you already have it since you found your disc
Then you can go to Microsoft Downloads and download Windows 7 SP1 64bit OS.ISO and then burn it to a DVD-R or CD-R ....probably will need to be a DVD-R though
Then install and reuse your key
If you decide to do this, after installing it and loading the MB and device drivers, I recommend you check out Skuzzy's sticked thread of hints & tips in the tech support forum, and uninstall all the Windows updates, Skuzzy has listed..... I would post the link but I'm on my dumbphone...
Hope this helps
TC
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Toad, my Windows Experience rating is virtually the same as yours, except my processor and memory are rated 0.1 pt higher each. My hard drive also scores a 5.9; I think that's probably the nature of a 5400 rpm drive, not sure if the amount of cache affects the rating. But it really doesn't impact AH significantly, other than start up and load times, I suppose. Someday I'll upgrade to an SSD.
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A ide Hard Drive that is over 1/2 to 2/3 rds used space will most times give a low reading like that from my experience....doesn't really cause any problems
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A ide Hard Drive that is over 1/2 to 2/3 rds used space will most times give a low reading like that from my experience....doesn't really cause any problems
let me add a little to this, back when WEI came out and we were using SATA I and SATA II drives, some new IDE Hard Drives would automatically score 5.9 from the start, some would score a little higher..... regardless if it was a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive .....now some WD Raptor 10,000 rpm and Seagate cheetah 15,000 rpm Hard Drives scored pretty high........but that changed somewhat when SATA III came around......
TC
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i don't know if going down to a i5-680 3.6ghz would help speed per core would would be greater but you'd be going from 4/8 to a 2/4. but the fastest i7 1156 only hits 3.06ghz and is to expensive imho to be worth upgrading too.
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The Lenovo sounds like a viable way to improve your FPS in a cost effective way. The rule of thumb I've learned about upgrading critical components is to double the performance, which is close enough between the 750Ti and 1050Ti. If you're going to upgrade the power supply, don't skimp! Get a quality one in order to protect the rest of your system. Some 450-500W is enough for the system you described.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to the hard disk rating. The game doesn't play any faster no matter how fast your HDD is, it all happens in RAM. Faster disks only make the game load faster. Or, before anyone starts ranting about SSD's, a fast hard disk, spinning or solid state, will make everything start faster. But I repeat, the hard disk has nothing to do with frame rates.
For upgrading your current system to 64 bit all you need is the installation key. It usually is on a sticker on the case, but you can also find it using some software like Nirsoft Produkey (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html). Using that key you can download the installation ISO from Microsoft (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7).
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Again, thanks to all. I value your input.
Right now, project #1 is to get Win 7/64bit on my computer. Not necessarily to see how it does with AH (although I will do that) but more to correct the original 32bit mistake.
The Microsoft roadblock:. You can't download the ISO from them unless you have a RETAIL key. I have an OEM key on my Win7 case.
With some help I did manage to get the ISO from Microsoft though. Apparently there are ways around the retail key requirement. So I d/l'd the ISO last night and will burn it to DVD tonight. Then a bit of backing up and a full install. We will see where that takes it.
As for the Lenovo, I played on it as it is last night. The detail sliders were pretty much full left and it didn't drop in reasonably sized furballs over water with a bit of ship ack. I started gradually moving sliders right as I played. Now they are about 1/3 of the way to the right. It still held 60. More experimenting this weekend.
I'm going to keep moving the sliders right until it starts to bog down. After that I'll probably know if I'm going to try the 1050Ti.
As for my original computer, it looks like to really improve it there would need to be a nearly full upgrade. Mobo/CPU/RAM/VidCard. At this point I'm not willing to invest that much $$$ until I see if the game sucks me in like it used to do. ;)
Last night I got a few kills, augured a few times and got shot out of the sky a few times. All in all a decent gaming experience.
Again, I thank all of you for the leadership and guidance!
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With an aftermarket CPU cooler, you can overclock the processor also :
http://techgage.com/article/overclocking_intels_core_i5-750_i7-870/3/
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Funny, I've never had an issue downloading the installation media using the code of an OEM sticker.
One hint, though: During the installing procedure you will be asked for the code. You can't type it wrong, there's some hidden formula that checks for errors. However, after having finished the installation you may find out that the code isn't valid for activating. If so, simply choose the "give another code" option and retype the code. That should do the trick. I've noticed this especially when doing a clean install using a brand dedicated code.
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Save, that's another interesting idea. I see that a lot of folks got the 870 to 4GHz with a good cooler. That's another $50 option that might extend the life of the machine without a whole new mobo/cpu/ram purchase. I'd just need the new VidCard maybe.
Bizman, when I went to the Microsoft d/l site and put in my code it came right back with the message saying that it's an OEM code and I need a retail code. They referred me to my OEM for a restore disk.
Thanks for the tip on "give another code".
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<snip>
Bizman, when I went to the Microsoft d/l site and put in my code it came right back with the message saying that it's an OEM code and I need a retail code. They referred me to my OEM for a restore disk.
Thanks for the tip on "give another code".
Would not surprise me. Microsoft has been doing everything they can to get everyone on Windows 10. Some of the tricks remind me of tactics a used car salesman might use.
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Again, thanks to all. I value your input.
Right now, project #1 is to get Win 7/64bit on my computer. Not necessarily to see how it does with AH (although I will do that) but more to correct the original 32bit mistake.
The Microsoft roadblock:. You can't download the ISO from them unless you have a RETAIL key. I have an OEM key on my Win7 case.
With some help I did manage to get the ISO from Microsoft though. Apparently there are ways around the retail key requirement. So I d/l'd the ISO last night and will burn it to DVD tonight. Then a bit of backing up and a full install. We will see where that takes it.
As for the Lenovo, I played on it as it is last night. The detail sliders were pretty much full left and it didn't drop in reasonably sized furballs over water with a bit of ship ack. I started gradually moving sliders right as I played. Now they are about 1/3 of the way to the right. It still held 60. More experimenting this weekend.
I'm going to keep moving the sliders right until it starts to bog down. After that I'll probably know if I'm going to try the 1050Ti.
As for my original computer, it looks like to really improve it there would need to be a nearly full upgrade. Mobo/CPU/RAM/VidCard. At this point I'm not willing to invest that much $$$ until I see if the game sucks me in like it used to do. ;)
Last night I got a few kills, augured a few times and got shot out of the sky a few times. All in all a decent gaming experience.
Again, I thank all of you for the leadership and guidance!
you can download a OEM or Retail version of windows 7 64bits from Torrents since you have the key to use already, if you need it in a pinch. your gonna have to back everything up and reinstall everything as i don't think there is a upgrade pathway from 32 to 64.
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you can download a OEM or Retail version of windows 7 64bits from Torrents since you have the key to use already, if you need it in a pinch. your gonna have to back everything up and reinstall everything as i don't think there is a upgrade pathway from 32 to 64.
Toad has already downloaded the Windows 7 SP 1 x64.ISO directly from Microsoft's Downloads center
He could if he wants to, install the 64 bit version directly over the 32 bit version, and the new install will save his existing files in a directory/folder named "windows.old" if my memory is correct(been a long time since I've last done it) However, I recommend to backup everything that you want/need including your AH settings, etc
Then do a complete reformat/fresh install
Hope this helps
TC
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Funny, I've never had an issue downloading the installation media using the code of an OEM sticker.
One hint, though: During the installing procedure you will be asked for the code. You can't type it wrong, there's some hidden formula that checks for errors. However, after having finished the installation you may find out that the code isn't valid for activating. If so, simply choose the "give another code" option and retype the code. That should do the trick. I've noticed this especially when doing a clean install using a brand dedicated code.
i've always just called the 1-800 mumber and validate my install
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i've always just called the 1-800 mumber and validate my install
I try to keep anonymous as long as possible :noid
Plus the online activation takes a lot less effort. Their automated phone system features a female voice with an annoying accent, not to mention the tediousness of typing the codes on a not-so-smart cell phone. The few times neither the online or automatic activating hasn't worked, the girl (yes, she's always sounded at least as young as my daughters) has seemed to have less competence in computing than I have - which I've learned isn't that surprising at all when dealing with help desks of any ilk.
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I try to keep anonymous as long as possible :noid
:aok :old:
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Toad has already downloaded the Windows 7 SP 1 x64.ISO directly from Microsoft's Downloads center
He could if he wants to, install the 64 bit version directly over the 32 bit version, and the new install will save his existing files in a directory/folder named "windows.old" if my memory is correct(been a long time since I've last done it) However, I recommend to backup everything that you want/need including your AH settings, etc
Then do a complete reformat/fresh install
Hope this helps
TC
the problem i see is that OEM code will not work with that .iso
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dung, it only is a problem while downloading the ISO. The code will work just fine during the actual installation. Of course with the caveat I mentioned before about having to re-enter the very same code for activating.
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dung, it only is a problem while downloading the ISO. The code will work just fine during the actual installation. Of course with the caveat I mentioned before about having to re-enter the very same code for activating.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/can-an-oem-licence-key-be-used-to-activate-a/495b4da1-c1b7-4d93-82a9-8c8601bbaf32
you are correct!
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THE DISCUSSION (HINTING OR OTHERWISE) ON HOW TO ILLEGALLY OBTAIN OR USE SOFTWARE IS CAUSE FOR BANNING FROM THIS SITE AND THE GAME!
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See above post.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:33:09 PM by Skuzzy »
sorry Skuzzy, I should have just not replied at all to that post
TC
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Ok, I got the Win 7 / 64 bit installed and only ONE screwup on my part. I kinda rushed the "Where do you want to install windows" screen and did not see the delete for deleting the partitions. So.....it installed on the current partition and gave me the Windows.old Folder on the C drive. The drive is 500GB with 337GB still free so it's not even half full.
Two questions:
1) It shows 16GB RAM installed but only 8GB usable. Is that correct? Or did I miss something here? Is Windows itself using the other 8GB? Do I possibly have a bad stick of 8GB RAM?
2) Given that I screwed up the install, is it worth doing it over and deleting the partitions for a "clean install" this time? Or just defrag it and go about my business?
Thanks! I appreciate all the help everyone has given me.
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Hi again,
Try link below.
https://superuser.com/questions/155615/windows-7-x64-how-can-i-test-my-memory (https://superuser.com/questions/155615/windows-7-x64-how-can-i-test-my-memory)
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Ran the Win7 Memory Diagnostic Tool. "No memory errors detected." Still showing only 8GB usable.
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The BIOS is only showing 8GB usable, so it is not a Windows 7 problem.
It's either the BIOS or the Sticks themselves.
Any suggestions appreciated. I'm trying to work through it.
ASUS P7P55D PRO, flashed the BIOS to the latest before the install of Win7/64
<edit> the Windows Resource Monitor confirms 8GB reserved for use of the BIOS, so that checks.
I've been through the BIOS 2X looking for a place to un-reserve/allocate RAM memory. No luck so far. I have this suspicion it is reserving it for the onboard video but I can't find a place to turn that off either!
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Are you using two 8Gb sticks? If so, do you have them installed in memory slots A1 and B1, per the motherboard manual?
Have you tried each stick by itself, using slot A1?
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At first I thought it might be a limitation of the motherboard. Mine only takes 8 GB... But that's not the case here, yours should take 16 GB. As you may have noticed, there's quite a few BIOS updates mentioning memory compatibility improvements.
According to the manual, sticks up to 4 GB are supported. Funny aside, the compatibility listings only show sticks up to 2 GB, the larger amounts being kits of 2 or 3 sticks. You suspected one 8 GB stick possibly being bad, so I assume you have 2x8. The manuals have been published in 2009 in English, the German update from 2011 showing similar data, so 8 GB sticks might be supported, too. As Oboe said, it's important that they are seated in the A1 and B1 slots, especially with the Lynnfield processor you have. Oh, and in the specifications I found there's a MemOK! button on the motherboard for fixing memory boot compatibility issues. It's located at the upper end of the ATX power connector.
As for your suspicion for reserving memory for the onboard video, there's no such thing on your motherboard. I scrolled through the manual for each BIOS option until I looked at the image and the specifications.
If you have any doubts about potential issues with the Windows.old folder possibly interfering your current setup, reinstall Windows for your piece of mind. At this point it still isn't too much of an effort.
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According to this post: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/304241-30-asus-p7p55d-core-16gb-usable (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/304241-30-asus-p7p55d-core-16gb-usable)
You may see good results from reordering and/or reseating your memory DIMMs. Also, reseating the CPU has been suggested, which will take a bit more work. Finally (although check this first, as it is the simplest and you can do it without opening up your machine), go to msconfig, boot tab, advanced options, and make sure that "maximum memory" is NOT checked, or if it is, that it is set to the actual amount of memory you have installed.
Mike
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I actually have 4x4GB, so all 4 slots are used. It is Corsair CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B, 9-9-9-24 and 1.50V I am going to try each stick in A1 next.
I just did the MemOk! Test with all 4 installed. BIOS reported the test passed and told me to save settings, which I did. It still only reports 8GB in the BIOS though. True, I also found no video; I was just trying to figure what might me using the memory that Win7 reported as reserved for Hardware.
I have tried the Maximum Memory checkbox. It was initially unchecked. I checked it and set 16GB, did not help. I then unchecked it, rebooted, no help. That would have been an easy fix but it's not this problem I guess.
I'm going to run all the sticks through A1 first and see if maybe there's a bad stick even though it passed the MEMOK! test.
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Latest twist.
Trying one stick at a time in the A1 slot, the computer won't boot.
Trying each stick one at a time in the B1 slot, the computer boots and reports 4GB usable RAM.
So...all the sticks are good; nothing wrong with the RAM. They each report at 4GB in the B1 slot.
Something is up with the A1 slot though. Work continues.
<EDIT> So all the RAM is good. I am getting the 8GB from the B1/B2 channel. I believe A1 is dead and with A1 either full or empty, putting a stick in A2 changes nothing (as expected). Looks like an A channel problem.
<Edit2> Doing a chat with ASUS support right now.
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You can always just space out your rebuild by replacing parts as time and money permit. I don't know about win 7 but with win 10 you can replace the CPU no problem. That would be the first thing I would upgrade.
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Well, ASUS says send the board in for $ervicing. What a $urpri$e!
I don't think it's worth the bother, given the age of the this mobo and CPU. I think I am just going to live with the 8GB.
It's still twice the RAM I had before.
There are some bits floating about the 'net saying this can be caused by a bent pin on the CPU. Remove/Inspect/Straighten if necessary/reinstall CPU. I may do that someday if I'm really bored. It sort of amazing how many posts for help are out there on ASUS mobos saying that the A1/A2 RAM slots don't work.
Anyway, it's running well on 8GB right now and I'm playing AH3 at a fairly decent resolution/frames on the other Lenovo computer so I think I'll stand pat a while.
I looked at a Ryzen5/mobo/RAM/Vid card setup but I'm not ready to sink ~$700 into this project just yet.
I appreciate all you spending your time to offer suggestions. Thanks!
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I have an i5-2400 (3.1 GHz) and a GeForce 750 Ti card.
I get 60 fps once I set environment map slider to none, reflections and shadows off, and everything else at default.
It's fine for me.
Toad, you system with a better graphics card would probably be better than mine. If I were buying a new graphics card, I'd go for one of the $180 GeForce 1060's.
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I would be really surprised if that board ran stable with all four DIMMs populated. You might find something like 1 in 4 boards that would work, but probably it's closer to 1 in 12. That's not simply an ASUS bias, but fairly common to all manufacturers until you get into higher end, or even WS boards.
Just my experience.