Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: USCH on April 09, 2017, 02:24:30 PM

Title: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on April 09, 2017, 02:24:30 PM
Its gun is all but worthless someone need to look into the math of the hitting power. i have been working on the achievement, and boy point blank a T34 turret will take a round and shrug it off.

Its not poor product placement either.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Vulcan on April 09, 2017, 03:51:39 PM
I've gone head to head with a T34 no problems, even got the complimentary rant from GT101 on PM afterwards  :devil

Oh wait nevermind I use the M4A3-76W. Whats the difference between the firefly and -76W?
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: The Fugitive on April 09, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
I've gone head to head with a T34 no problems, even got the complimentary rant from GT101 on PM afterwards  :devil

Oh wait nevermind I use the M4A3-76W. Whats the difference between the firefly and -76W?

The Firefly has a weaker gun?   :noid
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on April 09, 2017, 04:19:53 PM
Its not that I'm ranting or anything, I have grown to accept its poor penetration qualities.

But man either the perk cost is too high ( i would say low eny and un perk the darn thing) or the penetration needs to be accurate. I had a level 346ft shot to the front hull of a panzer H and it bounced... its become just silly. 2500kills in the thing? pfft I'll be 250 years old by the time that happens.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Mano on April 09, 2017, 04:36:27 PM
Spend more time in the Firefly. It takes time to learn how it works.
It will take out every tank in the game. It will not take much damage because it is a M-4 and it is slow 20 mph. But the gun is excellent. Use it as a long range tank. Kill stuff from 2500 -3000 and you will do fine.

<S>
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lyric1 on April 09, 2017, 04:39:43 PM
Its not that I'm ranting or anything, I have grown to accept its poor penetration qualities.

But man either the perk cost is too high ( i would say low eny and un perk the darn thing) or the penetration needs to be accurate. I had a level 346ft shot to the front hull of a panzer H and it bounced... its become just silly. 2500kills in the thing? pfft I'll be 250 years old by the time that happens.

Tiger killer?
Don't think so at least not in game.
Hetzers just seem to roll right at you soaking every round you pump into them until they are ready to fire there first shot.

Couple of videos on Youtube worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBrOomoQJyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Y8YJeas4I

http://www.theshermantank.com/category/75mm-turret/

One of the two actual gun sights used in the firefly.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/vehicles/17pdr004_zpse2a7263d.jpgoriginal_zpsdjla3erz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/vehicles/17pdr004_zpse2a7263d.jpgoriginal_zpsdjla3erz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on April 09, 2017, 06:09:54 PM
Spend more time in the Firefly. It takes time to learn how it works.
It will take out every tank in the game. It will not take much damage because it is a M-4 and it is slow 20 mph. But the gun is excellent. Use it as a long range tank. Kill stuff from 2500 -3000 and you will do fine.

<S>
Mano i have been using it since it came out bro (not every day all be it) but you get the point. i bounced off the side of a hetzer at 400 too..
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: RUSH1 on April 10, 2017, 01:26:07 PM
Spend more time in the Firefly. It takes time to learn how it works.
It will take out every tank in the game. It will not take much damage because it is a M-4 and it is slow 20 mph. But the gun is excellent. Use it as a long range tank. Kill stuff from 2500 -3000 and you will do fine.

<S>

I agree.  I've had no problem with the tank's gun from long range.  I would take it out more often if not for it's top speed only being 20 mph.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: JunkyII on April 10, 2017, 02:00:02 PM
I agree it's not good enough to deserve such a perk...M18 is a much better tank
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: ONTOS on April 10, 2017, 02:11:11 PM
I think the Firefly's  main gun is the same as the 17 pound field gun (barrel length being the difference). The Firefly's gun is more powerful than the Tiger I main gun and is only beat by the Tiger II. I like the Firefly, it's weakness is it's armour or lack there of. The M18's only asset is it's speed.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: FBKampfer on April 10, 2017, 02:16:00 PM
You do realize there are armor and penetration tables, correct?
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Randy1 on April 10, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
Never could figure out why it is a perked tank.  I understand the perk value is to discourage use in a side imbalance.  I think you could give perks away for each sortie and it would still be left in the hanger just because of the speed.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: bustr on April 10, 2017, 04:32:51 PM
USCH,

What happens offline if you fill the drone slots with all the tanks you are having trouble with, then spawn out of the local hanger and shoot at them, same ranges and shoot for the same locations on those tanks?
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lunatic1 on April 10, 2017, 05:22:46 PM
wow the gun on the Firefly is a 17pdr. it hits hard and kills what it hits. I had no problem with it save for the lack of armor and its slow speed.. the amour historically correct M4/firefly has always been weak--the M4 speed is what 24-25 mph--shouldn't the firefly be the same, unless it's 17pdr that slows it down(will have to read up on it) but I had no problem getting my achievement in it-uhh maybe your just a bad shot-sorry--the T-34's have sloped armor. The Panthers and tigerII's have heavier armor but can be destroyed by side and rear hits
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on April 11, 2017, 06:59:10 PM
but I had no problem getting my achievement in it-uhh maybe your just a bad shot-sorry--
you have 2,500 kills in it? I guess i must suck then case closed.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Devil 505 on April 11, 2017, 07:30:26 PM
Fly a plane!  :old:
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: FBKampfer on April 11, 2017, 07:32:55 PM
Fireflies gun will out perform the Tiger's and Panthers, you just can't aim apparently.

And it's speed is correct, as modeled off of M4A4 conversions.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Gman on April 11, 2017, 08:04:02 PM
Try and kill a Firefly, and it'll blow a new hole in your little moon.

(http://www.modelermagic.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Serenity_22.jpg)
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lunatic1 on April 12, 2017, 08:25:57 PM
you have 2,500 kills in it? I guess i must suck then case closed.

actually I'm working on my T34-85 kills right now

but gv achievements will take longer because I fly a lot more now than I used to
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lunatic1 on April 12, 2017, 08:26:29 PM
Fireflies gun will out perform the Tiger's and Panthers, you just can't aim apparently.

And it's speed is correct, as modeled off of M4A4 conversions.

20mph rgr
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Jeeps_Guns_Tanks on April 13, 2017, 10:49:29 PM
The Vc Firefly was capable of 25 mph for short periods and 20 was the normal max speed.

Check out this spec sheet.
(http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/Firefly-Vc-specsheet.png)
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lunatic1 on April 14, 2017, 11:45:50 AM
no wonder The Firefly couldn't go very fast, it has a Chrysler engine it. :D
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Jeeps_Guns_Tanks on April 14, 2017, 08:23:27 PM
It really was a crazy motor, but it was reliable, pretty much as reliable as the other Sherman engine options.

(http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/A57one-water-pump-1600x946.png)

(http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/a57-right-side-multiopump-1600x947.png)

Whats even more interesting is there are two or three of these still running in Sherman's over in Europe.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: waystin2 on April 15, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
wow the gun on the Firefly is a 17pdr. it hits hard and kills what it hits. I had no problem with it save for the lack of armor and its slow speed.. the amour historically correct M4/firefly has always been weak--the M4 speed is what 24-25 mph--shouldn't the firefly be the same, unless it's 17pdr that slows it down(will have to read up on it) but I had no problem getting my achievement in it-uhh maybe your just a bad shot-sorry--the T-34's have sloped armor. The Panthers and tigerII's have heavier armor but can be destroyed by side and rear hits
QFT.  It has a great long range gun and up close it's an absolute destroyer.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: JunkyII on April 15, 2017, 01:20:39 PM
wow the gun on the Firefly is a 17pdr. it hits hard and kills what it hits. I had no problem with it save for the lack of armor and its slow speed.. the amour historically correct M4/firefly has always been weak--the M4 speed is what 24-25 mph--shouldn't the firefly be the same, unless it's 17pdr that slows it down(will have to read up on it) but I had no problem getting my achievement in it-uhh maybe your just a bad shot-sorry--the T-34's have sloped armor. The Panthers and tigerII's have heavier armor but can be destroyed by side and rear hits
Do you think it deserves a perk higher then the M18 or T3485?
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: FBKampfer on April 15, 2017, 03:37:10 PM
Do you think it deserves a perk higher then the M18 or T3485?

Very much so. Past 1000m or so, it's gun is inferior to the Panzer IV Ausf. H with both AP and HVAP. The Firefly's 17lber remains superior to the Panther's KwK42 at all ranges.

The M4 family ostensibly has stronger frontal armor as well, though this depends greatly on range and angle of impact.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: JunkyII on April 15, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Very much so. Past 1000m or so, it's gun is inferior to the Panzer IV Ausf. H with both AP and HVAP. The Firefly's 17lber remains superior to the Panther's KwK42 at all ranges.

The M4 family ostensibly has stronger frontal armor as well, though this depends greatly on range and angle of impact.
I feel in AH3 the T34 and M18 are better suited for the fight because the T34 can take the close shot from the tank he cant see in the trees and the M18 is fast enough it can avoid those shots....gameplay wise....the T3485 and the M18 are better tanks IMO.

But standoff long range shooting...the Firefly is one of the better ones. I agree
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lyric1 on April 15, 2017, 07:10:28 PM
When this tank first came out it was not perked at all.
At that time there was not the choices of vehicles that we have now, so it was eventually perked.
Personally it is such a rare tank to see in game I would lift the perk on this and the M4/76.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: FBKampfer on April 15, 2017, 08:18:44 PM
I've always seen a fair number of Fireflys. I think they tend to be misidentified as M4(76)'s for the most part.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Lusche on April 15, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
I've always seen a fair number of Fireflys. I think they tend to be misidentified as M4(76)'s for the most part.

A quick and very rough tank & tank destroyer 'usage' statistic for the 1st quarter 2017

(percentage of all kills of and deaths by vehicles)

T-34/85      30.6%
Panzer IV H   29.5%
M4A3(76)W   6.3%
M-18      5.7%
T-34/76      5.3%
Panther G   5.2%
Panzer IV F   4.5%
M4A3(75)   4.4%
Jagdpanzer 38   2.8%
Sherman VC   1.8%
Tiger I      1.7%
Tiger 2      1.4%
Jagdpanzer IV   0.5%
Jagdpanther   0.4%
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Lusche on April 15, 2017, 08:36:44 PM
When this tank first came out it was not perked at all.

And quickly ruled the battlefield, partly helped by an armor bug which the Tiger I suffered the most from.
But the Fireffl was different from todays model too, it was faster and didn't have advantage of a great sight it has today (all tanks had the same sight & zoom back then).  :old:
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: FBKampfer on April 16, 2017, 12:02:33 AM
I'm of the opinion that pure usage data isn't accurate for how frequently one sees a certain type of vehicle due to the ubiquitousnes of camps affecting vehicle choices.

One tends to see more Panzer IV's and T34's spawning in due to the best gun on a free tank, or the best turret traverse and HVAP, depending on their personal philosophy.

On the camping end, one sees a higher number of the casemate tank destroyers (because of reduced weakness of limited traverse), and high perk tanks such as Tigers, Panthers, and Tiger II's than in open general combat.



Which is not to say that Fireflies are crazy common or anything, simply that from my experience, I believe the raw data is somewhat misleading.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 16, 2017, 12:07:22 AM
I preach this to my squad mates and every time this topic comes up in these forums: range and angle of impact means everything.

FWIW: the Firefly's 17 Pdr is inferior only to the King Tiger in terms of AP ability (yes, superior to the Tiger I and Panther's 75mm). If you hit a T34 in the turret and nothing happened it simply means the armor worked (absorbed and/or deflected), or the projectile failed. Remember, there is extra armor to the front of the gun mount.

Film is a wonderful thing.  ;) 

Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lyric1 on April 16, 2017, 01:06:31 AM
And quickly ruled the battlefield, partly helped by an armor bug which the Tiger I suffered the most from.
But the Fireffl was different from todays model too, it was faster and didn't have advantage of a great sight it has today (all tanks had the same sight & zoom back then).  :old:

Am I correct in saying no Panthers,King Tigers,T34/85,M4/76 at that point either  :headscratch: don't recall.
Pretty sure no tank destroyers either at that point in time.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Lusche on April 16, 2017, 03:27:15 AM
Am I correct in saying no Panthers,King Tigers,T34/85,M4/76 at that point either  :headscratch: don't recall.


You are totally correct.

When the first incarnation of the Firefly was introduced, he only met the Panzer IVH, T-34/76, M-8 and the Tiger I.

Tank and tank destroyer introduction dates (Tour #):

Panzer IV H   3
Tiger I   35
T-34/76   57
Sherman VC   87
T-34/85   104
M4A3(75)   124
M4A3(76)W   124
Panther G   131
Tiger 2   138
Panzer IV F   141
M-18   141
Jagdpanzer 38 (t)   162
Jagdpanzer IV/70   162
Jagdpanther   162


Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lyric1 on April 16, 2017, 08:28:29 AM

You are totally correct.

When the first incarnation of the Firefly was introduced, he only met the Panzer IVH, T-34/76, M-8 and the Tiger I.

Tank and tank destroyer introduction dates (Tour #):

Panzer IV H   3
Tiger I   35
T-34/76   57
Sherman VC   87
T-34/85   104
M4A3(75)   124
M4A3(76)W   124
Panther G   131
Tiger 2   138
Panzer IV F   141
M-18   141
Jagdpanzer 38 (t)   162
Jagdpanzer IV/70   162
Jagdpanther   162

Excellent as usual Lusche.  :aok
Your post I think helps my point. It should have been perked back then :headscratch: now though probably not.
The Hetzer is far more dangerous than the Firefly in AHIII yet no perk cost on it.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Mano on April 16, 2017, 03:30:05 PM
The Hetzer have allot of trouble dealing with M-8's. The Firefly is harder to kill because it has a turret. The 17 lb HE's are not exactly a M-8's best friend either.  :D

The Firefly may be slow but when it hits the mark it is deadly. I often prefer a ditch over rtb wnen I run out of ammo. Just takes too lng to get there.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Lusche on April 16, 2017, 04:12:02 PM
See this http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345669.msg5138436.html#msg5138436 for detailed GV combat data for the 1st quarter 2017  :old:
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: lyric1 on April 16, 2017, 04:57:27 PM
See this http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345669.msg5138436.html#msg5138436 for detailed GV combat data for the 1st quarter 2017  :old:

In a nut shell to many perked rides that no one uses.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: iaqmya on April 28, 2017, 09:02:53 AM
After seeing some posts in Aces High concerning this vehicle, I decided to look at it off line.

 Found I could hit targets way, way out there :)

Yesterday evening, I decided to try it on line.

I had a 45 minute sortie.  My first kill was two shots for a kill at 4,000 yards.

The next kill was at 3,800.  Virgle was probably not a happy person.  All the hits hit the top of the vehicle, a WRBL.

The third kill was an M4 at 3,800 yards, two hits back to back. 

Six minutes later, redctchr was killed again, this time at 3,900 yards. 

I was on a hill and they were on the opposite hill.  I was well hidden under some trees and all hits appeared to strike the top of the vehicles. 
 
I never received any return fire.  I guess they did not see the rounds coming in and dropping on them.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: atlau on April 30, 2017, 08:58:40 AM
Do you find that the sight keeps moving around? Mine slowly drifts up and down.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: iaqmya on April 30, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
I did not notice any drift, just the bounce from shooting.  Before going on line, I had spent about two hours practice on the gunnery range Mr. Buster had put together :)
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: redcatcherb412 on April 30, 2017, 02:37:48 PM
I was on a hill and they were on the opposite hill.  I was well hidden under some trees and all hits appeared to strike the top of the vehicles.
 
I never received any return fire.  I guess they did not see the rounds coming in and dropping on them.

Correct, incoming tank fire is very hard and mostly impossible to see anymore. The sound model doesn't seem to help as everything (at least on my pc) seems to be left of actual events. The solid darker green of the FF and some of the tree shades make superb hiding places for the FF compared to other tanks camo colors and design.  The FF is a great tank if you don't have to travel much and want to reach out and touch someone for low perk cost.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: redcatcherb412 on April 30, 2017, 02:40:32 PM
Do you find that the sight keeps moving around? Mine slowly drifts up and down.

I find I have to re-calibrate my controls more with any zoomed sights as the drift gets pretty bad sometimes.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Mano on May 02, 2017, 02:43:13 PM
Correct, incoming tank fire is very hard and mostly impossible to see anymore. The sound model doesn't seem to help as everything (at least on my pc) seems to be left of actual events. The solid darker green of the FF and some of the tree shades make superb hiding places for the FF compared to other tanks camo colors and design.  The FF is a great tank if you don't have to travel much and want to reach out and touch someone for low perk cost.

<S>Redcatcher

Get a sound card and plug your headset or speakers directly into it. Do not use USB. A sound card makes a big difference and pin points where the sound it coming from with accuracy. Challenge left a post a long time ago about sound cards. AHIII had a major upgrade for sound and to enjoy it you need a good sound card. Many on board sound chips on the motherboard do not cut it for sound quality. A sound blaster card usually runs about 40 dollars  U.S. 

As far as the Firefly, if you keep your distance...say 3 to 4 thousand yards, as already mentioned, The Firefly is deadly and will kill any tank in the game. It will take allot of hits on the Tiger II's turret to disable it, but it will pop.

 :salute
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: redcatcherb412 on May 06, 2017, 01:44:56 PM
I am using the motherboard sound chip Mano.  I will try a dedicated sound card, you're right, they're not that expensive.

MAKAYLA landed 32 kills with a firefly last night. Five of those were my M4.  I never could find where he was shooting from as `1 shot and in the tower every time.  Very bushy spawn and that dark green machine could have been in any of them, I don't think any hills covered the spawn, but may have from 3k+ out.  Great job with that sortie MAKAYLA.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on May 06, 2017, 02:48:28 PM
I am MAKAYLA   :noid but ty
MAKAYLA landed 32 kills with a firefly last night. Five of those were my M4.  I never could find where he was shooting from as `1 shot and in the tower every time.  Very bushy spawn and that dark green machine could have been in any of them, I don't think any hills covered the spawn, but may have from 3k+ out.  Great job with that sortie MAK.
i was directly behind the spawn by 300ft. anyone who went right or left could have out flanked me, and some did but didn't get the shot off first.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: redcatcherb412 on May 06, 2017, 03:01:26 PM
I am MAKAYLA   :noid but tyi was directly behind the spawn by 300ft. anyone who went right or left could have out flanked me, and some did but didn't get the shot off first.

30ft or 300ft or 3k, you were pretty well invisible and garnered an impressive batch of kills MAKAYLA   :salute
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: USCH on May 06, 2017, 07:55:19 PM
You know.... i was thinking about that.... maybe a bug happened....
To put this as clearly as i can, i was almost in the open... i backed up to a tree (like a regular one with high branches)
and i was directly behind the orientation that you guys were spawning. But totally exposed, 350 degrees.

The only thing blocking me was the orange trees to my left but i got anyone that went around them, with them on there right.
Title: Re: The Firefly
Post by: Randy1 on May 07, 2017, 07:50:19 AM
I tried the firefly after reading this thread.  Makayla was on top of a ridge over the airport.  I got two kills on him at just about maximum range.  One with one shot and one with two.  I am a converted firefly fan as long as you don't have to go very far.