Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 03:13:02 PM

Title: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 03:13:02 PM
I'm curious, do people really get their jollies looking around the cockpit and marveling at the shading on the rivets?   

Not that it isn't great work, but is that really where we'd ask the developers to spend their precious time if we had the power to do so?

I've seen posts from several folks in various threads that want the planes updated ... and soon!

Frankly, I can't tell you which planes are AH1, AH2, or AH3...because how sexy the lighting is doesn't affect game play.

Micro-freezes and stutters absolutely DO affect game play.  I'd ask that THAT gets fixed before anything else.

Why the focus on an aspect of the game that I'm betting the majority of players don't even notice?
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Skuzzy on May 25, 2017, 03:14:08 PM
The cockpit art, in the older planes, is rather painful to look at.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: horble on May 25, 2017, 03:16:14 PM
I'm curious, do people really get their jollies looking around the cockpit and marveling at the shading on the rivets?   

Not that it isn't great work, but is that really where we'd ask the developers to spend their precious time if we had the power to do so?

I've seen posts from several folks in various threads that want the planes updated ... and soon!

Frankly, I can't tell you which planes are AH1, AH2, or AH3...because how sexy the lighting is doesn't affect game play.

Micro-freezes and stutters absolutely DO affect game play.  I'd ask that THAT gets fixed before anything else.

Why the focus on an aspect of the game that I'm betting the majority of players don't even notice?

If you can't tell the difference there's something wrong with your vision.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 03:18:00 PM
Oh Horble,

You completely missed my point.

Once I find the indicators, I prefer looking outside.

I'll trade pretty cockpits for smooth play any day.

 
:-)
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 25, 2017, 03:24:24 PM
Frankly, I can't tell you which planes are AH1, AH2, or AH3...because how sexy the lighting is doesn't affect game play.

I can help you:


(http://i.imgur.com/5HdYJpH.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ONiha44.jpg)


Even you may be able to tell which one is the AH1 model  :noid

And yes, it IS actually of some importance when trying to get a new audience interested in the game. You know, first impressions and such...  :old:
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Skuzzy on May 25, 2017, 03:31:34 PM
You were nice Lusche, I was going to show him the Boston cockpit.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 03:33:53 PM
Lusche said, "And yes, it IS actually of some importance when trying to get a new audience interested in the game. You know, first impressions and such.."

Rodent57 Replies, "Not if they keep experiencing Freezes it ain't!"


And ANY fighter Jock that has ever lifted a plane knows that you should be looking outside as much as humanly possible ...focus your eyes beyond 3 feet and you wont notice the difference in cockpit art!

Lastly, I get eye candy. 

I just want the game to play cleanly like it used to...and I don't think that cockpit art is going to override screen freezes in the mind of a new player!!
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 25, 2017, 03:35:00 PM
You were nice Lusche, I was going to show him the Boston cockpit.

Oh, I was just looking for the most popular 'old' model I could think of  :D
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 25, 2017, 03:37:05 PM
I just want the game to play cleanly like it used to...and I don't think that cockpit art is going to override screen freezes in the mind of a new player!!


I experienced no more freezes when I switched to DX 9.
And yes, getting rid of the freezes is very important, no one actually disputes that. But it's not that "looks don't matter".

Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: BowHTR on May 25, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
And ANY fighter Jock that has ever lifted a plane knows that you should be looking outside as much as humanly possible ...focus your eyes beyond 3 feet and you wont notice the difference in cockpit art!

Keep in mind the first thing a new person sees when getting on the runway is the cockpit.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Wiley on May 25, 2017, 03:40:59 PM
I just want the game to play cleanly like it used to...and I don't think that cockpit art is going to override screen freezes in the mind of a new player!!

Of course the stuttering problem is major.  The first gen cockpits will turn people off before they get in to see the stutters.

Keep in mind the first thing a new person sees when getting on the runway is the cockpit.

Also this.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 03:42:25 PM
Completely agree that looks matter...and appreciate that first impression phenomenon. 

I just find it hard to believe that fundamental game play is less important than a sexy looking cockpit.

I've gone back and forth between DX9 and DX11. 

Lately DX11 seems to be giving me less freezes and stutters, but only marginally so. 

I know for a fact that we are losing players to the freezes.

I'd consider getting that fixed to be a major priority.

Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: puller on May 25, 2017, 03:43:12 PM
I would just copy the Typhie model to the Tempest and not say anything...make them think its new :devil
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Skuzzy on May 25, 2017, 03:45:39 PM
Completely agree that looks matter...and appreciate that first impression phenomenon. 

I just find it hard to believe that fundamental game play is less important than a sexy looking cockpit.

I've gone back and forth between DX9 and DX11. 

Lately DX11 seems to be giving me less freezes and stutters, but only marginally so. 

I know for a fact that we are losing players to the freezes.

I'd consider getting that fixed to be a major priority.

If you are getting them in DX9 and DX11, then something else is amiss.

I need to see a DXDIAG for that computer.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Wiley on May 25, 2017, 03:47:30 PM
I just find it hard to believe that fundamental game play is less important than a sexy looking cockpit.

Sorry, who said that again?

Of course the stuttering is important.  I'm also reasonably certain HTC is aware of the problem, and is working to fix it.

The graphic thing is something I feel isn't getting the priority it perhaps should.  Throwing your hat in on Steam and showing them the Tempest or Boston cockpit is not going to produce a wave of favorable reviews.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Vinkman on May 25, 2017, 03:48:07 PM
You were nice Lusche, I was going to show him the Boston cockpit.

I was flying an A20 yesterday and thinking, this must be the most used plane in need of an update. Lusche must have a flight hours/model-age metric ratio graph. I bet this is at the top.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Wiley on May 25, 2017, 03:49:38 PM
I was flying an A20 yesterday and thinking, this must be the most used plane in need of an update. Lusche must have a flight hours/model-age metric ratio graph. I bet this is at the top.

 :rofl

Wouldn't surprise me if he produces one in the next 24 hours.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 25, 2017, 03:53:15 PM
I was flying an A20 yesterday and thinking, this must be the most used plane in need of an update. Lusche must have a flight hours/model-age metric ratio graph. I bet this is at the top.

Hm.

Maybe it's also because in my time I flew the Tempest a lot and the A-20 almost never....   :D
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Zimme83 on May 25, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
Yes. It does affect gameplay. I even tend to avoid flying planes that havent been upgraded.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Rodent57 on May 25, 2017, 04:05:26 PM
If you are getting them in DX9 and DX11, then something else is amiss.

I need to see a DXDIAG for that computer.

Sent, Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: bustr on May 25, 2017, 08:08:26 PM
It's about competing for eyes starting at a base line expectation before whether what you see and focus on outside the cockpit matters. Many have never heard of our game who will be our potential new blood to keep the doors open. Most of them at least have looked at or played WT, even some variation of IL2 or looked at youtube videos of both.

Waffle has started giving AH1 and AH2 rides a complete overhaul with a new generation 3D art version. I pulled all of the following screen shots from the skin viewer to show where AH3 is headed in meeting the base line expectations of our new generation of customers. It looks like larger planes or ones with two crew will have a separate unit called the PIT, while the gunsight is now it's own 3D object with realistic detail. Waffle has been earning his money.


The earliest I can remember was the Ju87 family which shares the Revi12 gunsight with the updated 110 family.


(https://s20.postimg.org/bmbo8udjh/newg11003.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/fjyxy90ct/newgJu8701.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/dtfwwritp/newgJu8702.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/tmkvd85ql/newg11001.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/lv45eo1l9/newg11002.jpg)
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: bustr on May 25, 2017, 08:11:25 PM
And the recent Ki61 and SBD5. Seems to be a pattern emerging here for AH3 generation 3D modeling.


(https://s20.postimg.org/b0raqh7v1/newgKi6101.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/kmkv6rz0t/newgKi6102.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/adse0yaz1/newgSBD501.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/bimg6bxfx/newgSBD503.jpg)


(https://s20.postimg.org/z8bvv0vt9/newgSBD502.jpg)
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: thndregg on May 25, 2017, 08:18:50 PM
You were nice Lusche, I was going to show him the Boston cockpit.

Just hop in the Ki67 right now. ;)
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: oboe on May 25, 2017, 10:44:57 PM
I don't think the person/people responsible for developing plane & cockpit art are the same ones who would be working on game play freezes and stuttering issues.



Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: mthrockmor on May 25, 2017, 11:34:29 PM
I'm not so sure that shadowing on rivets is the difference between 120 sticks online, and say 500 online. I highly doubt that 380 logged because they wanted to see shadowing, and couldn't. In fact, I strongly suspect most removing shadowing to help get rid of lag, and Frame Rate issues. I'm just guessing.

The real issue, marketing. Someone popped up something on Steam, which I've never even heard of. In any case, the worlds best hamburger is owned by the guy who went bankrupt because no one knew he had the worlds best burger. The biggest issue is marketing.

But I can tell the difference between AH1 and 3, I just don't think its the game changer.

boo
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: nugetx on May 26, 2017, 05:41:58 AM


The real issue, marketing. Someone popped up something on Steam, which I've never even heard of. In any case, the worlds best hamburger is owned by the guy who went bankrupt because no one knew he had the worlds best burger. The biggest issue is marketing.


Sir, you are totally right.

Aces High is this hamburger, steam is one part of getting there, but the other part is also making necessary gameplay changes to elevate AH from 'good'  to the 'the best' burger status.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: save on May 26, 2017, 06:57:42 AM
i suggest  not to release DX11 to larger audience unit micro-freezes are gone, unless they are with VR.

VR is one of the stronger points AH have against it's competitors, also game play, and 24h arenas, and the community.


Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: hgtonyvi on May 26, 2017, 07:59:46 AM
Fm2 and p38 needs a serious update. Attracting new players on steam?? They are gonna try the 38 since it looks badass.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 26, 2017, 02:21:15 PM
I'm not so sure that shadowing on rivets is the difference between 120 sticks online, and say 500 online. I highly doubt that 380 logged because they wanted to see shadowing, and couldn't.


No they did not cancel their accounts because of rivets. Of course not.

But then, that's not how things work anyway. You don't keep a certain number level of players by making them all stay, but by getting new folks in. Even with a good, steadily improved games, players leave for good all the time, with average subscription length probably only measured in a few months. You need constantly to appeal to new players, and as time goes by, keeping the graphics 'up to date' can be quite important for games like this.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Lusche on May 26, 2017, 02:42:46 PM
Speaking of rivets, who else remembers AH's "Loose Rivets"?  :old:
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: oboe on May 26, 2017, 02:55:40 PM
Speaking of rivets, who else remembers AH's "Loose Rivets"?  :old:

I do!

They were dang funny, because they were so true...
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 26, 2017, 03:07:54 PM
Fm2 and p38 needs a serious update. Attracting new players on steam?? They are gonna try the 38 since it looks badass.

Well, the FM2 is in the updating process now according to the preview on the twitter page.

The P-38 is not an AH1 model, so I imagine it won't be updated before all the older AH1 models are updated first.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: oboe on May 26, 2017, 03:40:14 PM
Well, the FM2 is in the updating process now according to the preview on the twitter page.

The P-38 is not an AH1 model, so I imagine it won't be updated before all the older AH1 models are updated first.

I've seen the new P-38J model - it's on the Occulus storefront page for AH.  Hitech confirmed it is the new P-38.  So its out there.  No word on the L or G though.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Devil 505 on May 26, 2017, 03:48:05 PM
The external shape is done, but we don't know about the cockpit.

I can't imagine HTC taking the time to finish a 3rd generation P-38 before finishing the updates on the older AH1 stuff first.

They might be sitting on a bunch of new external models and releasing them as the cockpits are done. The 109 on the AH3 splash screen is not the current 3D model either, but I'm not thinking that we'll see an updated 109 until after all the AH1 models are gone.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: The Fugitive on May 26, 2017, 04:12:35 PM
Speaking of rivets, who else remembers AH's "Loose Rivets"?  :old:

I do, they are what inspired me to do my cartoons. I may even have them on an old drive some place.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: redcatcherb412 on May 26, 2017, 05:16:21 PM
Oh Horble,

You completely missed my point.
Once I find the indicators, I prefer looking outside.
I'll trade pretty cockpits for smooth play any day.
:-)

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the eye candy rendering only affect the PC as you are looking at it ?  Looking at the hi res rendered cockpit and rivets etc would hit your gpu harder than looking out the windscreen at a fairly uncluttered sky ? If true just never look at anything detailed and you shouldn't take a graphics hit.  I get a much lower frame rate looking in a GV commander view driving thru a dense forest as compared to looking thru the gunsight.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: oboe on May 26, 2017, 06:06:18 PM
The external shape is done, but we don't know about the cockpit.

I can't imagine HTC taking the time to finish a 3rd generation P-38 before finishing the updates on the older AH1 stuff first.

They might be sitting on a bunch of new external models and releasing them as the cockpits are done. The 109 on the AH3 splash screen is not the current 3D model either, but I'm not thinking that we'll see an updated 109 until after all the AH1 models are gone.

Oh yeah you might be right, I just assumed if I was seeing the external shape that all the pieces like cockpit model and art would be done.  But that might not be necessarily so.   I could see the argument for redoing a new '38 if they expect many new people from Steam - because lots are attracted to the cool shape, multi-role, and easy to fly torqueless FM.   Still, I hope they redo the A-20 and Ju88 soon.  And then they still have the Japanese carrier bombers to fix.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: Shuffler on May 31, 2017, 09:42:44 AM
I had stutters that started up after one of the updates. I was using DX11. I was told to try DX9. When I went to DX9 the stutters were gone. Very smooth.
Title: Re: Rivets ... really?
Post by: bustr on May 31, 2017, 04:02:52 PM
Guys this gumbo of stutters post by Skuzzy in the Technical Support forum will give you everything to date. Unless you are using VR, for most everyone else, DX9 has no stutters. You have to use DX11 to run VR. 


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382880.0.html