The reports state that it was an E model Super Hornet, so that leaves only -31 or -87.
I've even seen one unsubstantiated report that stated that it was "Felix 105" from VFA-31.
I'm not telling :p
(The guy was a friend of one of our IPs lol)
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 19, 2017, 11:51:29 AM
I've just read Russian news, they interrupted the de-conflict /hot line communications with US forces in Syria ; maybe there's room for errors and direct conflict .
"All kinds of airborne vehicles, including aircraft and UAVs of the international coalition detected to the west of the Euphrates River will be tracked by the Russian SAM systems as air targets." - Russian Defence Ministry
"Russia cuts deconfliction channel with Washington after US downs Syrian jet" More: http://tass.com/defense/952119
"Russia will target coalition jets in parts of Syria, defence ministry says" http://news.sky.com/story/russia-will-target-coalition-jets-in-parts-of-syria-defence-ministry-says-10920332
Title: Re: War
Post by: Serenity on June 19, 2017, 11:52:41 AM
I've just read Russian news, they interrupted the de-conflict /hot line communications with US forces in Syria ; maybe there's room for errors and direct conflict .
"All kinds of airborne vehicles, including aircraft and UAVs of the international coalition detected to the west of the Euphrates River will be tracked by the Russian SAM systems as air targets." - Russian Defence Ministry
"Russia cuts deconfliction channel with Washington after US downs Syrian jet" More: http://tass.com/defense/952119
"Russia will target coalition jets in parts of Syria, defence ministry says" http://news.sky.com/story/russia-will-target-coalition-jets-in-parts-of-syria-defence-ministry-says-10920332
To quote the ready room this morning, "Fights on, b******!"
I'll tell you, our Strike IPs are all REALLY excited to get back to the fleet and try to chalk up some kills themselves...
Title: Re: War
Post by: Nefarious on June 19, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
Serenity, i keep on eye on old text /prophecies and other on news, there's nothing to be excited about .
Personally, I don't take much stock in prophecies or predictions. I know the attitude of our strike fighters is one of excitement over having faced an enemy for so long but being caged. They feel as if the leashes are being dropped, and we are finally letting slip the dogs of war.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 19, 2017, 01:41:00 PM
Don't shoot at the Russians... It will end badly.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Serenity on June 19, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 19, 2017, 02:27:24 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: War
Post by: bustr on June 19, 2017, 02:31:56 PM
This whole thing is stupidly small minded and something that only makes sense geopoliticaly for outsiders if ISIS is really the target. Otherwise you do enough reading about Bashar, and you get the impression he is using the whole event to fulfill some personal vendettas. And Russia is looking the other way.
This 2012 article from the BBC is pretty good covering the general "whys?" of Russia's participation.
This demographic map of Syria is a good indication of what Bashar is really up to. He like the rest of the world needs ISIS gone, but the map shows much of his father's motivations and now his. That area above the two pink Kurdish areas in Turkey is all Kurdish which makes it easy for the resistance to keep supplied and Bashar is fighting the resistance and ISIS. The white area is one of the most arid deserts in the world, the Hamad. The colored portions of the map also describe the inhabitable regions of Syria. It's a clusterflop that will become a bigger clusterbellyflop once ISIS is wiped out and Bashar gets back to what he was doing before ISIS so rudely interrupted him.
It was a Syrian Su-22, not Russian. A plane type that hasn't been in Russian service since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Yes, however, if the reports are to be believed, the US first attempted to deconflict the situation with Russia. When that failed, and the Russian-allied aircraft continued the attack, THEN it was destroyed.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 19, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
Shoot down all the Syrian jets you want, but don't shoot at the Russians, it will end badly (what is the American interest in the Syrian civil war anyway?). We're talking about a nation that considers chemical weapons "conventional" and used chemical weapons in previous regional conflicts like in Chechnya. And they still have enough nukes to destroy the world several times over.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Devil 505 on June 19, 2017, 03:34:29 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: War
Post by: Serenity on June 19, 2017, 03:40:13 PM
Shoot down all the Syrian jets you want, but don't shoot at the Russians, it will end badly (what is the American interest in the Syrian civil war anyway?). We're talking about a nation that considers chemical weapons "conventional" and used chemical weapons in previous regional conflicts like in Chechnya. And they still have enough nukes to destroy the world several times over.
So, now that the Russians have announced they will be targeting American aircraft, what do you propose we do if they take an active shot at us?
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 19, 2017, 03:42:27 PM
Simple! Don't violate the airspace of the sovereign nation known as Syria.
The capital of Chechnya after the Russians were through...
So... your answer is to back down in fear? Where do you draw the line?
I agree with GS. They dropped a bomb on our guys, we retaliated. It's all even right now. Let's keep it that way. It is not about backing down. It is about being reasonable in the face of conflict. That is my two bits.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Serenity on June 19, 2017, 04:00:46 PM
I agree with GS. They dropped a bomb on our guys, we retaliated. It's all even right now. Let's keep it that way. It is not about backing down. It is about being reasonable in the face of conflict. That is my two bits.
I'm not saying we should go on a forward crusade. Our stance was black and white. We listed our allies, we flew operations supporting them. When weapons were dropped on them, we attempted to deconflict prior to shooting. My stance is, as you said, we're even, and we should continue our operations, as we have been doing, barring aggressive actions from enemies.
GS is advocating we CEASE our standing operations in support of forces we support against ISIS. THAT would be backing down out of fear.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Skuzzy on June 19, 2017, 04:05:40 PM
It is not about fear. It is about being smart.
Forcing Russia's hand is not smart.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Devil 505 on June 19, 2017, 04:12:54 PM
I'm not saying we should go on a forward crusade. Our stance was black and white. We listed our allies, we flew operations supporting them. When weapons were dropped on them, we attempted to deconflict prior to shooting. My stance is, as you said, we're even, and we should continue our operations, as we have been doing, barring aggressive actions from enemies.
GS is advocating we CEASE our standing operations in support of forces we support against ISIS. THAT would be backing down out of fear.
And Russia has a similar deal with the legitimate government of Syria and is granted usage of their airspace. We are not. Our allies may be the victims and more worthy support, but they are the rebellious faction in a civil war. Our position is not as tenable as we would like it to appear.
What would have happened if that Syrian Su-22 was a Russian Su-34? Should we have splashed it too? Because the next bomb targeting the rebels could be from one.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Kanth on June 19, 2017, 04:17:40 PM
If it's all about the sovereign nation deal, then I'd like to see how they are going to deal with Iran shooting ballistic missles into Syria. Lets see how quickly Russia jumps on them for that.
I'd rather not have war on this, I think it's for the best if it holds steady. I'd like to see us out of the middle east entirely TBH. We've been there since I was last there and things are not fixed and IMO they NEVER will be, not by us.
(what is the American interest in the Syrian civil war anyway?)
Heh. What is Russia's?
It's just the next century's Great Game. Always has ended badly, always will.
- oldman
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 19, 2017, 04:23:41 PM
If things goes really hot the Russian forces in Syria will be wiped out in a matter of hours, they have ~10 fighters in Syria so the numbers aren't exactly on their side. Neither Syria or Russia will seek confrontation w the coalition.
Whats a bigger problem is that west is totally ignoring Everything but Is, Syrian army is racing towards the Iraqi border while Iranian militias in Iraq increasing their Control. My guess is that they are trying to establish a land corridor from Damascus to Tehran...
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 19, 2017, 07:01:21 PM
All major cell providers are experiencing widespread outages; Russian emp ? :O :uhoh
My guess is that they are trying to establish a land corridor from Damascus to Tehran...
I heard this today on PBS news hour by an analyst. From other sources I have read is there some attempt at establishing a natural gas or oil pipeline between the two nations and the Saudis do not want it to happen.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 19, 2017, 07:24:58 PM
The pipeline is to be considered as a Conspiracy theory. It was a public uprising that turned into a civil war that turned into a regional conflict that turned into a...
Title: Re: War
Post by: mthrockmor on June 19, 2017, 08:03:27 PM
Natural gas pipeline is a key issue, not a conspiracy theory. And, the tension between Iran and Saudi Arabia is being played out by proxy. If this devolved into WW3, history will judge a similar, sloppy mess as WW1.
Boo
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 20, 2017, 09:02:20 AM
"Armed Russian jet comes within 5 feet of US recon jet" http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/20/breaking-news-armed-russian-jet-comes-within-5-feet-us-recon-jet.html
video recorded in June 6th?! Su-27 approaching B1B bomber. /Baltic Sea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLvB-EMoFWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Br2cfeKDY
Title: Re: War
Post by: Kanth on June 20, 2017, 09:21:16 AM
Yes, I think that's pretty standard though.
As proved by the previous video.
meaning it's not something that's happening newly due to the shot down Syrian airplane.
Title: Re: War
Post by: NatCigg on June 20, 2017, 12:43:23 PM
good point ghi. somebody will have to back down. when will the turnip and potato get together to make a deal?
i mean, so what if we threw some missiles at them? cant they understand? are we still playing war games for resources?
:bhead
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 04:31:24 PM
It's just the next century's Great Game. Always has ended badly, always will.
- oldman
The Syrian government asked the Russians for assistance. The Assad family and the Russians go way back, and Syria is to Russia what Saudi Arabia and the House of Saud is to the U.S. Syria is Russia's closest ally in the ME. And to be quite frank the Assads are no worse than the Sauds.
The Russians are welcome in Syria by the Syrian government. No one else is.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
Assad is merely a puppet, his army was defeated long ago, now its Hezbollah and Iran that does most of the fighting. Assad have very Little Control over the situation...
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 04:39:58 PM
GS is advocating we CEASE our standing operations in support of forces we support against ISIS. THAT would be backing down out of fear.
Supporting "forces" (insurgent factions in a civil war... and there are NO moderate factions only different shades of terrorists) that are in direct military conflict with the legitimate government of the country where the fighting is taking place AND Russia... That's not only legally and morally questionable, but a recipe for WWIII.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 04:49:10 PM
Assad is merely a puppet, his army was defeated long ago, now its Hezbollah and Iran that does most of the fighting. Assad have very Little Control over the situation...
The Syrian Arab Army remains the largest military force involved in the Syrian Civil War, and they're on the advance taking town after town from the rebels.
Title: Re: War
Post by: bustr on June 20, 2017, 04:53:30 PM
So based on the best theories about the pipeline or pipelines, the Syrian civil war is happening because Bashar is protecting Russia's EU fuel supply franchise. While the none ISIS opposing forces are being manipulated by competitors who want to supply the EU out of the middle east. ISIS just happened to be in the right place at the right time in all of this.
Is anyone today that organized to pull off a manipulation of this magnitude? For it to really be a regime change to favor a deal like either one of the following, Bashar would have had to be deposed in under 6 months, a replacement with an ability to fight ISIS in place, or you would have exactly what is happening in Syria now. And if it's about Russia's pipeline to the EU, how do you get them to leave the country with so much at stake? And why wouldn't Hezbollah or Turkey or Iran or Saudi Arabia not see a vacuum to fill for their own purposes since Syria would be all clusterfloped up at that point. The UN\NATO steps in and appoints a protectorate until things are stabilized, Russia declares itself an interim protectorate until some future date to be determined.
What is so important about the location and geology of Syria? No real natural resources to fight a war over. One large very hot desert taking up about 1\2 of the land mass. It's between Europe, the Med, Turkey and the rest of the middle east. Natural location to mount an offensive against a tiny nuclear armed neighbor if you had an army and weapons systems in place. But, that wouldn't be as profitable as using Syria for what it was always used for. Part of a bridge from east to west like it has always been.
The idea of the pipelines sounds good with the EU and middle east winning economically, conspiracy, anyone's guess.
------------------------------- The Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline (called the Friendship Pipeline by the governments involved and the Islamic gas pipeline by some Western sources[2]) is a proposed natural gas pipeline running from the Iranian South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Europe via Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon to supply European customers as well as Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.[1] The pipeline was planned to be 5,600 km (3,500 mi) long and have a diameter of 142 cm (56 inches).[1] A previous proposal, known as the Persian Pipeline, had seen a route from Iran's South Pars to Europe via Turkey; it was apparently abandoned after the Swiss energy company Elektrizitätsgesellschaft Laufenburg halted its contract with Iran in October 2010 in the face of pressure over US sanctions against Iran.[3][4]
Iraq signed an agreement with Iran in June 2013 to receive natural gas to fuel Iraqi power plants in Baghdad and Diyala. The contract covers 1.4 Bcf/d over 10 years. Iran's plans to export 176 MMscf/d of gas to Iraq by 2015.[5]
In July 2011 Iran, Iraq and Syria said they planned to sign a contract potentially worth around $6bn to construct a pipeline running from South Pars towards Europe, via these countries and Lebanon and then under the Mediterranean to a European country, with a refinery and related infrastructure in Damascus.[1][6][7][8] In November 2012 the United States dismissed reports that construction had begun on the pipeline, saying that this had been claimed repeatedly and that "it never seems to materialize."[9] A framework agreement was to be signed in early 2013, with costs now estimated at $10bn;[10] construction plans were delayed by the Syrian civil war.[11] In December 2012 the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies said that the project "remains doubtful. It is not clear how such a project will be financed given that both Iran and Syria are subject to strict financial sanctions."[12] In July 2015, Iranian Gas Engineering and Development Company (IGEDC) and Pasargad Energy Development Company signed a BOT (build-operate-transfer) contract under which the project owner will provide 25% of finance and National Development Fund of Iran the rest for the construction of IGAT-6.[13]
The pipeline would be a competitor to the Nabucco pipeline from Azerbaijan to Europe.[1] It is also an alternative to the Qatar-Turkey pipeline which had been proposed by Qatar to run from Qatar to Europe via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Turkey.[14] Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[14]
--------------------------- The Qatar-Turkey pipeline was a proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from the Iranian–Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey was via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria,[1][2] and another was through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.[3][4] Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[1]
Theory relating to Syrian conflict
In 2012 an analyst cited by Ansa Mediterranean suggested that Qatar's involvement in the Syrian civil war was based in part on its desire to build a pipeline to Turkey through Syria:
"The discovery in 2009 of a new gas field near Israel, Lebanon, Cyprus, and Syria opened new possibilities to bypass the Saudi Barrier and to secure a new source of income. Pipelines are in place already in Turkey to receive the gas. Only Al-Assad is in the way. Qatar along with the Turks would like to remove Al-Assad and install the Syrian chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood. It is the best organized political movement in the chaotic society and can block Saudi Arabia's efforts to install a more fanatical Wahhabi based regime. Once the Brotherhood is in power, the Emir's broad connections with Brotherhood groups throughout the region should make it easy for him to find a friendly ear and an open hand in Damascus." [5]
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2017, 05:07:32 PM
The USA is not The capital of Chechnya. Not even close.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2017, 05:40:05 PM
Russia is Mexico w nukes, they have no ability to defend Assad or themselves in Syria if it gets really hot. 10 fighters and a few SAM batterys isnt going to stop anything.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 05:47:00 PM
"Russia's military in Syria: Bigger than you think and not going anywhere"
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 05:52:19 PM
Any major attack on the Russians will undoubtedly provoke a strategic response. The Russians have already demonstrated that they can hit targets in the ME with cruise missiles launched from the Caspian Sea. Coalition airbases would be priority targets for a retaliatory strike.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
The Russian ground forces are larger and more Active than what official yes, the steady stream of MEDEVAC flights to Russia from Syria tells the story. But still, They would loose the air war within hours and after that it's only about how fast the coalition jets can drop LGB:s on their tanks and troops..
As for Cruise missiles. Those are also going the other way around. And if it gets that ugly there will for sure be losses among the coalition forces, maybe even pretty big. But Russia still have no mean of defend Syria if it comes to a full scale war.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 20, 2017, 06:00:16 PM
World War III
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2017, 06:04:07 PM
A worst case scenario yes. But I doubt that it will happen.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Shuffler on June 20, 2017, 06:08:20 PM
How about a game of chess?
Title: Re: War
Post by: CptTrips on June 20, 2017, 07:34:00 PM
What do you think the odds were that was a Russian "adviser" piloting that plane?
Title: Re: War
Post by: Meatwad on June 20, 2017, 07:34:44 PM
A lot of people seem to forget that Russia has the tendency to go ape on things. And I am willing to bet there are still a lot of cold war high ups that are still highly annoyed over the standoff
Title: Re: War
Post by: NatCigg on June 20, 2017, 08:52:34 PM
Im fine with splitting on the euphrates.! the united states of kurdistan will fit well. since assads guys are rather normal like us and the russians, we should be ok in the end.
:O
i mean cmon guys, its like your settling a old score, justified by some riotous argument. that's not civil behavior.
:bhead
Title: Re: War
Post by: bozon on June 21, 2017, 07:07:35 AM
The a victory for the Assads is not a victory for Syria - it is the establishment of shiite hegemony in a large crecent from the medditerrenian to Iran and down to Yemmen soon.
The Russians are there because the US under the previous leadership decided to step out. The two super powers do not confront each other directly - these are the rules of the game. Any spot vacated by one is free to be occupied by the other, and once there, it cannot be moved unless it is by their free will. With Putin at the wheel, any place where the US will not assert its power will be filled by Russia.
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 21, 2017, 07:53:30 AM
I have no idea what the protocols are in this encounters, is this normal or getting "hot "? :headscratch:
"Watch a NATO F-16 fighter being directed away from the Russian defense minister's plane in Baltic airspace by a Su-27 jet on Wednesday."
Title: Re: War
Post by: Hungry on June 21, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
War?
STEELY DAN New Frontier Lyrics Yes we're gonna have a wingding A summer smoker underground It's just a dugout that my dad built In case the reds decide to push the button down We've got provisions and lots of beer The key word is survival on the new frontier
Introduce me to that big blonde She's got a touch of tuesday weld She's wearing ambush and a french twist She's got us wild and she can tell She loves to limbo, that much is clear She's got the right dynamics for the new frontier
Well I can't wait 'til I move to the city 'til I finally make up my mind To learn design and study overseas
Have you got a steady boyfriend Cause honey I've been watching you I hear you're mad about brubeck I like your eyes, I like him too He's an artist, a pioneer We've got to have some music on the new frontier
Well I can't wait 'til I move to the city 'til I finally make up my mind To learn design and study overseas Let's pretend that it's the real thing And stay together all night long And when I really get to know you We'll open up the doors and climb into the dawn Confess your passion your secret fear Prepare to meet the challenge of the new frontier
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 21, 2017, 02:52:18 PM
The Russians are there because the US under the previous leadership decided to step out.
The Russians are there because they've always been there for the last 50 years or so. The Soviets/Russians have had a naval base in Syria since 1971. And this year the base will be expanded to support Russia's increasing naval presence in the Med.
Reports of a S300 missile launched from Tartus, headed west out over the Mediterranean.
Yep, but the source still unconfirmed tweets; https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2017/21-june-russia-launched-s300-from-its-port-in-tartus--to
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 21, 2017, 04:46:12 PM
Not much info out yet so we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Shuffler on June 21, 2017, 04:54:17 PM
Just about midnight people were tweeting that Clint Eastwood was dead at 87. More fake news.
Any news site that depends on twitter for their feed is not a real NEWS site
Title: Re: War
Post by: Zimme83 on June 21, 2017, 05:02:23 PM
That is one of the best sites to follow the war in Syria..
But it seems like the Russian had some sort of air defence exercise in the area today and that its related to that. No sign of them targeting an Aircraft.
Title: Re: War
Post by: bozon on June 21, 2017, 05:11:08 PM
The Russians are there because they've always been there for the last 50 years or so. The Soviets/Russians have had a naval base in Syria since 1971. And this year the base will be expanded to support Russia's increasing naval presence in the Med.
Immediately after the Syrian Su-22 fighter jet dropped its bombs, two American F/A-18E Super Hornets, flying from the George H.W. Bush aircraft carrier, engaged, firing a AIM-9 Sidewinder -- a short-range air-to-air missile -- at the Syrian plane from about half a mile away, two US officials told CNN.
But the Syrian jet deployed defensive flares, causing the US missile to miss its target. The US pilot proceeded to fire off a second missile, an AIM 120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, which hit its intended target, downing the Syrian warplane and forcing its pilot to eject, the officials added.
Title: Re: War
Post by: morfiend on June 21, 2017, 05:59:52 PM
It seems the only way to win that game is to not play it!
:salute
Title: Re: War
Post by: bustr on June 22, 2017, 01:36:33 PM
Some of the root to the Assyrian civil war, Assad's brutal use of force to hold onto power, and Russia's involvement. Assad is not a Muslim, he is an Alawites, and his father and then himself made the overture of courting Sunni influence to the Alawites in Syria so as to look like a legitimatized Muslim regime in the region. The map below is the result of the French Mandate for Syria, as you can see, the Alawites state is the same then as the Alawites region today. Being friends with Russia makes more sense not being a legitimate recognized sect of Islam.
Recent map of who has control of what oil, and it looks a bit like a division of the country by religious and ethnic lines similar the old French Mandate. Turkey black market oil re-sellers have always bought boot legged oil from from Syria since before the civil war. Those re-sellers are still buying it from the Kurd's and ISIS, oil is oil. Once ISIS is gone who are Islamic, which all sides agree has to happen. The Kurd's will still have oil feilds to support their cause which Assad will want back. How do the resistance forces who are Sunni Islamic win against Assad and the Russians? Create an alliance with the Kurd's who are not all considered Islamic? Will the US switch to helping the resistance and Kurd's? This is super Bellyflop Krudtasticly stupid trying to apply a western view of conflict to peoples divided by religious and cultural sects in a country created by Europeans against their will for access to oil and possible mineral reserves almost a century ago.
So is this really a war between Assad, Sunni's, ISIS and the Kurd's over control of oil feilds? Without the oil exports and domestic energy production, not much else is in that region to support a population the size of Syria stuffed into cities next to one of the most arid deserts in the world that Palmyra and an oil field sits in.
"stay out of our yard" is what i think the russians said. us shooting down their plane in defense of allied ground forces? hmm? :headscratch: im not expert, thats a act of war.
:bhead
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 22, 2017, 09:45:05 PM
Some of the root to the Assyrian civil war, Assad's brutal use of force to hold onto power, and Russia's involvement. Assad is not a Muslim, he is an Alawites, and his father and then himself made the overture of courting Sunni influence to the Alawites in Syria so as to look like a legitimatized Muslim regime in the region. The map below is the result of the French Mandate for Syria, as you can see, the Alawites state is the same then as the Alawites region today. Being friends with Russia makes more sense not being a legitimate recognized sect of Islam.
Recent map of who has control of what oil, and it looks a bit like a division of the country by religious and ethnic lines similar the old French Mandate. Turkey black market oil re-sellers have always bought boot legged oil from from Syria since before the civil war. Those re-sellers are still buying it from the Kurd's and ISIS, oil is oil. Once ISIS is gone who are Islamic, which all sides agree has to happen. The Kurd's will still have oil feilds to support their cause which Assad will want back. How do the resistance forces who are Sunni Islamic win against Assad and the Russians? Create an alliance with the Kurd's who are not all considered Islamic? Will the US switch to helping the resistance and Kurd's? This is super Bellyflop Krudtasticly stupid trying to apply a western view of conflict to peoples divided by religious and cultural sects in a country created by Europeans against their will for access to oil and possible mineral reserves almost a century ago.
So is this really a war between Assad, Sunni's, ISIS and the Kurd's over control of oil feilds? Without the oil exports and domestic energy production, not much else is in that region to support a population the size of Syria stuffed into cities next to one of the most arid deserts in the world that Palmyra and an oil field sits in.
bustr, i believe this is not about Syria only, let's zoom out of the box map; see below; It's a dangerous scheme, cornering the bear standing against NWO with more sanctions every day and military intimidation lately.
bustr, i believe this is not about Syria only, let's zoom out of the box map; see below; It's a dangerous scheme, cornering the bear standing against NWO with more sanctions every day and military intimidation lately.
Before any of that is relevant, Assad is an Alawites, once Saddam was his allie and is gone now. He is not a muslim but, he is fighting a civil war against his majority muslim people, ISIS, and the Kurds to regain control of his country and his oil feilds. He has always used extreme measures to maintain control over his muslim majority population just like Saddam who was part of a muslim cultural minority and Ba'ath party. The only pressure on Assad until that first red line stupidity during the Arab spring was to not attack Israel. Until this civil war and ISIS, Assad owned his oil fields and freely exported his oil to the world. As we all can see, regime change in that country is a clusterflop and no one was interested because Assad even as a unpalatable dictator kept his part of the region stable. Look what happened to Egypt and Libya with regime change. ISIS has to go because they have been using Syria's oilfields to fund their operations which Turkey had happily purchased. After that what, the UN\NATO tells Assad he is a bad dictator in a region full of evil bad dictators so he has to go and hand his country over to who? The muslim brotherhood, Kurds, Iran, while Russia is his allie and building bases in his country.
Title: Re: War
Post by: GScholz on June 23, 2017, 03:18:20 PM
Bashar al-Assad is actually one of the more palatable dictators in the region. Before becoming heir apparent to his father's dictatorship when his elder brother died, Bashar was happily living in London with his British wife and working as an eye surgeon. When he came to power in 2000 after his father's death Bashar was initially reform minded and won the election in 2014, receiving 88.7% of votes in the first contested presidential election in Ba'athist Syria's history. An international delegation who observed the election issued a statement asserting that the election was "free and fair". All that changed with the "Arab Spring". In my opinion it would be in the best interest of everyone except the Jihadists that Assad wins the war and remain in power. If the Arab Spring has shown us anything it is that these people do not want peaceful stable democracies.
Title: Re: War
Post by: bustr on June 23, 2017, 04:24:45 PM
If you remove the EU, US, and Russia, who has the most to gain in that region if Assad was removed? Ultimately who had the most to gain from the Arab Spring?
Title: Re: War
Post by: Delirium on June 23, 2017, 10:14:14 PM
edit: on second thought, arguing about a post from a 29 year old inexperienced kid is useless.
Title: Re: War
Post by: Shuffler on June 24, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
LOL this kid is funny. Is this a comedy show somewhere?
Title: Re: War
Post by: bustr on June 24, 2017, 07:14:48 PM
bustr, i believe this is not about Syria only, let's zoom out of the box map; see below; It's a dangerous scheme, cornering the bear standing against NWO with more sanctions every day and military intimidation lately.
The strategy of containment is...oh....about 70 years old now. I think they have gotten used to it. Most of those US flags on that map show what is very small US contingents that are mostly symbolic and any action taken in those countries would be at the mercy of the Host country.
American deployments are far, far smaller then in '78 when I was in NATO. NATO is far less an offensive threat to Russian then it was then. Militarily speaking.
This has nothing to do with military deployments. Put it this way, since we cant speak of Politics, military deployments and actions of the future will almost certainly have something to do with access to resources. Oil, Natural gas, strategic metals, diamonds, important minerals, food , fresh water...they will almost always be whats hiding behind that Queen on the chess board. Either the resources themselves or the strategic choke points need to secure them.
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 25, 2017, 09:09:56 PM
RT (and sputnik news) are propaganda channels and should not be seen as reliable by anyone. (No they are not just any other media)
<-- brainwashed commie . :rofl (http://rs76.pbsrc.com/albums/j36/Toadonpa/Emoticons/commierun.gif~c200) I like to see both sides of the coin; truth is in the middle. Behind the iron curtain, i used to listen western propaganda; voice of America and Free Europe radio, was illegal; i knew commies are lying ; Over the past 20 years i'm sensing same flavor in most North American and European MSM ,same cabal brainwashing the masses , demonizing nations twisting and prepping people's minds to accept immigration/wars just to fulfill their secret agenda. Even the POTUS doesn't trust them anymore.
Title: Re: War
Post by: ghi on June 25, 2017, 09:34:58 PM
If you remove the EU, US, and Russia, who has the most to gain in that region if Assad was removed? Ultimately who had the most to gain from the Arab Spring?
I don't want to sound politic or antisemitic, because i'm not ,here is what i believe is going on; There are 6.4 million Jewish living in Israel and 7 million in United States. This is their promised land, something is going to happen in United States and they will return ; the evacuation of this area has already began , shifting large population towards Europe. Nothing is going to stop this exodus, but is going to get ugly soon .