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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on July 07, 2017, 02:10:33 PM

Title: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 07, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
As a companion wish to my Universal perk pool wish, I would like to see a perked ordnance system introduced that was teased by Pyro a long time ago.

With a perked ordnance system, it would allow the introduction of additional ordnance packages that we don't currently have in game.  With the introduction of a perked ordnance system, it would allow the introduction into the game various ordnance packages that we don't currently have.  For example:

- 3.5 inch bazooka rockets for the A-20
- 20mm cannon nose package for the A-20
- HVAR rockets for the B-25H
- Torpedoes for the B-26
- PTABs for the IL2 and other Soviet aircraft (that we currently have in game) able to deliver PTABs
- Cluster munitions
- para-frag bombs

The above are just a few examples of perked ordnance packages that could be introduced into the game.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: popeye on July 07, 2017, 02:16:19 PM

- 20mm cannon nose package for the A-20


 :O
Title: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Becinhu on July 07, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Nuke for b29!!!! Sorry I got excited...lol. We do need some expanded ord packages. The Japanese and German bombers have the largest variety and they are mostly hanger queens.


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Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Saxman on July 07, 2017, 02:38:24 PM
- HVAR rockets for the B-25H

I'm still wishing for AP shells for the pumpkin chucker.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: DubiousKB on July 07, 2017, 03:27:33 PM
Nuke for b29!!!! Sorry I got excited...lol. We do need some expanded ord packages. The Japanese and German bombers have the largest variety and they are mostly hanger queens.

Do it...  :devil   Just make it so that even our biggest perk-hoarders (see old guys) would only be able to use 1 or two... Say 10k perks?  :bolt:

Lol must be at 30K+ to drop and will destroy everything within 1 sector up to the 30k.  :aok :noid

+1 for reasonable ords options.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Zimme83 on July 07, 2017, 04:28:53 PM
PTAB does not need to be perked, the average pilot is accurate enough with 500 lbers to kill Gv:s on a regular basis, PTAB is not going to increase the ability to kill Gv:s..
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 07, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Patch notes from an update in 2006 (in which the F4U 3D model was updated) there was this interesting bit.

Quote
"Revised the 3D shapes of the F4U's. The F4U-1C was excluded from the revision as it will eventually be dropped as a separate plane when a perk ordnance system is developed."

And a post from Pyro when he was still around to explain what HTC had in mind for a perked ordnance system.

Kidding aside, perk ordnance is what it sounds like- the ability to charge perks for specific ordnance loadouts.  It means that instead of having the 1C as a separate plane, I can just make 20mm cannons a perked loadout on the 1D and save space.  Beyond that, we could offer up some more exotic weapon choices without fear of them overrunning the arenas or having to add separate planes to do them.  57mm on your Mossie, Tiny Tims on your Corsair, whatever.  We're not going to do nukes so forget about that.  I don't know when this will be done so don't ask.

Since a perked ordnance system was in the development plan back in 2006 and for whatever reason not implemented, is this because HTC has lost interest and didn't see a game play value or just a time management/resource kind and slipped off the priority list? 
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Oldman731 on July 07, 2017, 07:29:31 PM
As a companion wish to my Universal perk pool wish, I would like to see a perked ordnance system introduced that was teased by Pyro a long time ago.


I'll vote for this.

- oldman
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: lunatic1 on July 08, 2017, 08:40:19 AM
-1000 no ack-ack  no no no,
why are some players always trying to get other players to pay for a plane or a gv now it's ordinance. what*s next supplies? why don't you just put a price on supplies while your at it. it's so ridiculous.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: lunatic1 on July 08, 2017, 08:42:33 AM
Do it...  :devil   Just make it so that even our biggest perk-hoarders (see old guys) would only be able to use 1 or two... Say 10k perks?  :bolt:

Lol must be at 30K+ to drop and will destroy everything within 1 sector up to the 30k.  :aok :noid

+1 for reasonable ords options.
no nukes--1 side would up nothing but B-29's and drop a country and win the war in 2 hours at the most.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 08, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
-1000 no ack-ack  no no no,
why are some players always trying to get other players to pay for a plane or a gv now it's ordinance. what*s next supplies? why don't you just put a price on supplies while your at it. it's so ridiculous.

I think there should be to be honest. Really wish there was more things to spend perks on in the game. Ord and supplies do cost money (irl) and do have a big impact on the game. With the new layout of bases, knocking down all the ord, or barracks, or fuel on the fields is much harder.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: BowHTR on July 08, 2017, 08:54:51 AM
-1000 no ack-ack  no no no,
why are some players always trying to get other players to pay for a plane or a gv now it's ordinance. what*s next supplies? why don't you just put a price on supplies while your at it. it's so ridiculous.

Clearly you didn't read the OP.

With a perked ordnance system, it would allow the introduction of additional ordnance packages that we don't currently have in game.  With the introduction of a perked ordnance system, it would allow the introduction into the game various ordnance packages that we don't currently have.

<snip>

In other words, all the current ords/loadouts would be free. No cost. If you want a more rare type of ords/loadout , you pay for it.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: lunatic1 on July 08, 2017, 08:59:04 AM
Main article: List of surviving A-20 Havocs

Specifications (A-20G-20-DO)[edit]


 


 A-20s in bombing formation during World War II.

 


 A flight of A-20G or H bombers over France
Data from McDonnell Douglas Aircraft since 1920[22]

General characteristics
Crew: 3
Length: 47 ft 11 1⁄7/8 in (14.63 m)
Wingspan: 61 ft 4 in (18.69 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (5.36 m)
Wing area: 464 ft² (43.1 m²)
Empty weight: 16693 lb (7708 kg)
Loaded weight: 24127 lb (10964 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Wright R-2600-23 "Twin Cyclone" radial engines, 1,600 hp (1,200 kW) each

Performance
Maximum speed: 317 mph (276 kn, 510 km/h) at 10,700 ft (3,260 m)
Cruise speed: 256 mph (223 kn, 412 km/h)
Range: 945 mi (822 nmi, 1,521 km) (Combat range)
Service ceiling: 23,700 ft (7,225 m)

Climb to 10,000 ft (3,050 m): 8.8 min

Armament

Guns: 6× fixed forward firing 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Browning machine guns in the nose
2× 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Browning machine guns in dorsal turret
1x flexible 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Browning machine gun, mounted behind bomb bay

Bombs: 4,000 lb (1,800 kg)


Sorry no Rockets or heavy cannons
you forget the actual plane in the actual war in the actual time frame of lets say 1939-1945 would have to had and used these options/weapons
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: lunatic1 on July 08, 2017, 09:06:30 AM
I think there should be to be honest. Really wish there was more things to spend perks on in the game. Ord and supplies do cost money (irl) and do have a big impact on the game. With the new layout of bases, knocking down all the ord, or barracks, or fuel on the fields is much harder.
this isn't real life it's a game. so who pays the perks for the supps to resupp a town, the individual player, why should I burn my perks to resupp a town

 With the new layout of bases, knocking down all the ord, or barracks, or fuel on the fields is much harder.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No it isn't- small airfield 2 ammo bunkers on 1 end  medium and large airfield 4 ammo bunkers 3 on 1 side 1 on the other
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: caldera on July 08, 2017, 09:09:29 AM
I would like any bomb larger than 500lb/250kg cost perks if loaded on a fighter. 
Too easy for one fighter to kill a hangar and then go fighter mode or just run away at high speed.  Let bombers do the heavy bombing.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: nugetx on July 08, 2017, 09:33:43 AM
+1
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: SlipKnt on July 08, 2017, 10:00:00 AM
From an offensive standpoint.  I agree.

From a defensive standpoint I am not quite on board yet...  Sometimes, if they didn't drop the ord, that is the only chance you have at holding a base against 5 plus GVs if you are one or two defenders. 

This idea does have merit though.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Volron on July 08, 2017, 12:07:09 PM
I would like any bomb larger than 500lb/250kg cost perks if loaded on a fighter. 
Too easy for one fighter to kill a hangar and then go fighter mode or just run away at high speed.  Let bombers do the heavy bombing.

I'd go a step further.  Not only a perk cost for bombs Xlb/kg bigger on fighters, but also a perk cost if you want to use rockets AND bombs on a fighter.  It is to my understanding that very few of the fighters we have used rockets AND bombs at the same time.  So example based off of your suggestion:  If you want rockets, free.  If you want bombs upto 500lbs, free.  If you want bombs bigger than 500lbs, perk cost.  If you want bombs upto 500lbs AND rockets, perk cost.  If you want bombs bigger than 500lbs AND rockets, bigger perk cost.


I don't think perking ords on level bombers should be done, unless there is an "F4U-1c" type ord that appears.  :headscratch:  This may warrant a bit more discussion.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: JunkyII on July 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
With M3 resupply the way it is...perking ORD would make it that much worse. -1
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: atlau on July 08, 2017, 01:46:32 PM
-1. Try taking off in a 51D w/ 2x1000 and 6 rockets. You'll barely be 8k by the time you get to the enemy field.  And dropping individual 1000lbers on GVs can cause your plane to spin out if you don't manage the dive recovery correctly. F4/P47 and P38 handle it better, however the overall decrease in performance is penalty enough for flying w/ the bigger bombs.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Saxman on July 08, 2017, 02:53:39 PM
Would love to get the center rack 2000lber on the F4U-1D.

And Tiny Tims!
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: lunatic1 on July 08, 2017, 03:11:34 PM
Clearly you didn't read the OP.

In other words, all the current ords/loadouts would be free. No cost. If you want a more rare type of ords/loadout , you pay for it.




Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance

« on: Yesterday at 02:10:33 PM »


Quote

 apparently you didn't read it bowhtr:

As a companion wish to my Universal perk pool wish, I would like to see a perked ordnance system introduced that was teased by Pyro a long time ago.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Volron on July 08, 2017, 03:58:31 PM
-1. Try taking off in a 51D w/ 2x1000 and 6 rockets. You'll barely be 8k by the time you get to the enemy field.

That is because I take off from a field a bit further back.  If there isn't one close enough of my liking, I circle the field I take off from before proceeding.

And dropping individual 1000lbers on GVs can cause your plane to spin out if you don't manage the dive recovery correctly. F4/P47 and P38 handle it better, however the overall decrease in performance is penalty enough for flying w/ the bigger bombs.

This is true for any aircraft, regardless.  You don't manage your dive, you go splat in one way or another, especially if you "forget" about bombs under your wings.

If you cannot wait to proceed more appropriately, then it's on you.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: atlau on July 08, 2017, 05:13:19 PM
If you cannot wait to proceed more appropriately, then it's on you.

Actually the 2nd part is for planes that depart due to asymmetric load outs.

For the 1st point... wasting the extra 5-10 minutes to use a base farther out is penalty enough. No need to perk ords.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 08, 2017, 09:49:40 PM
With M3 resupply the way it is...perking ORD would make it that much worse. -1

You didn't read my post did you?  You should go back and read it and you'll see how M3 resupplying bases has no effect on a perked ordnance system.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: BuckShot on July 09, 2017, 06:57:06 AM
+1

190 with mk103 gondolas
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Spikes on July 09, 2017, 08:26:46 AM
Nuke for b29!!!! Sorry I got excited...lol. We do need some expanded ord packages. The Japanese and German bombers have the largest variety and they are mostly hanger queens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obligatory:
(http://i.imgur.com/HvMCkFh.gif)
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Mister Fork on July 09, 2017, 11:51:22 AM
Obligatory:
That's such a classic!  :rofl
I'm for perked bombs and ordinance for two reasons.. and it should be cost like 1 perk per 250lbs, 2 perks per 500lb, 5 perks for 1000lbs, 10 perks for 2000lbers +. 100lb bombs are free. Rockets 2 perks.

Reason one - it'll also stop the bomb-n-bail type of gameplay. Actually, it'll stop it cold. Take up a B-24 formation with 1000lbers, jumping before landing will cost you 120 perk points.

Two - it'll force more strategic gameplay. No more will you just up an attack plane and dive-n-dart to knock down a field radar. You will have to plan your approach, check radar, decide intercept for target, attack, egress out.

And no, I wouldn't let players buy perk points. You gotta earn them.

And aren't we tired of the same ole gameplay of bomb-n-jump and bomb-n-dart? Pilots now have to be careful and want to survive. Isn't this what we really want?
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Lusche on July 09, 2017, 12:16:39 PM
And aren't we tired of the same ole gameplay of bomb-n-jump and bomb-n-dart? Pilots now have to be careful and want to survive. Isn't this what we really want?


Not if it's all about the fight instead of the battle ;)

Take up a B-24 formation with 1000lbers, jumping before landing will cost you 120 perk points.

I'd predict massively raising average bomber altitudes.  :old:


Edit: This comment is not meant as a opposition the perked ords per se. Just a reminder you have to do some careful analysis of what you actually want to achieve and some unintended possible consequences.
I for one do believe such a perked system could work well, but there would be a detailed set of conditions & adjustements to be made.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: atlau on July 09, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
Would we perk bullets too by this logic? Reduce the number of low PK shots/spray and pray/HO's out there? How about fuel?

Decrease in performance is enough penalty for lugging around ords.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: JunkyII on July 09, 2017, 12:36:43 PM
You didn't read my post did you?  You should go back and read it and you'll see how M3 resupplying bases has no effect on a perked ordnance system.
Don't perk anything that will make a town or field going down faster....so yes I read your post and your previous posts about perking 1000 pounders
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 09, 2017, 03:44:59 PM
Don't perk anything that will make a town or field going down faster....so yes I read your post and your previous posts about perking 1000 pounders

You should get one of your squadron mate to read to you what I posted originally slowly so can comprehend what I posted.  I never advocated perking 1,000 pound bombs or the current ordnance options.  I wished for a perked ordnance system that would bring in new types of ordnance that would be perked, such at torpedoes for the B-26, etc.

Quote
With a perked ordnance system, it would allow the introduction of additional ordnance packages that we don't currently have in game.

I even posted an old comment by Pyro how it would work, notice no mention of perking current ordnance load outs?

Kidding aside, perk ordnance is what it sounds like- the ability to charge perks for specific ordnance loadouts.  It means that instead of having the 1C as a separate plane, I can just make 20mm cannons a perked loadout on the 1D and save space.  Beyond that, we could offer up some more exotic weapon choices without fear of them overrunning the arenas or having to add separate planes to do them.  57mm on your Mossie, Tiny Tims on your Corsair, whatever.  We're not going to do nukes so forget about that.  I don't know when this will be done so don't ask.

With the addition of perked ordnance, the player has more option and it opens up the game play.  There is nothing that negatively effects the game play with this wish.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: EagleDNY on July 09, 2017, 06:49:32 PM
Truthfully the perked ordnance I would likely use the most would be a decent late-war torpedo that can be dropped at high speed and altitude.  The improved Japanese type 91s could enter the water at 300-350 knots and that is something I would definitely spend the points on.  That and the Jill (B6N) or Grace (B7A) added to the game and you suddenly get an actual torpedo threat against the BB/CV groups.   Would make for one hell of an FSO. 
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: hitech on July 10, 2017, 09:31:45 AM
Patch notes from an update in 2006 (in which the F4U 3D model was updated) there was this interesting bit.

And a post from Pyro when he was still around to explain what HTC had in mind for a perked ordnance system.

Since a perked ordnance system was in the development plan back in 2006 and for whatever reason not implemented, is this because HTC has lost interest and didn't see a game play value or just a time management/resource kind and slipped off the priority list?

Just a time management/resource issue. Other things have been winning on the priority list.

HiTech
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: bozon on July 10, 2017, 12:16:15 PM
I think that the main argument in favor of perking 1000 lbs bombs on fighters is that this will make bombers and attack planes more attractive and effective.

Late war fighters with 1000 lbs carry more ordnance than dive bombers and close to the ordnance of light bombers. They are far more survivable after they release the bombs - so why fly dedicated attack planes? Perking 1000 lbs on fighters will also reduce their use as kamikaze, unless they are willing to lose a few perks. Bombers and dive bombers stay as they are.

Remember, everything is perk free if you land.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Saxman on July 10, 2017, 12:22:29 PM
I think that the main argument in favor of perking 1000 lbs bombs on fighters is that this will make bombers and attack planes more attractive and effective.

Late war fighters with 1000 lbs carry more ordnance than dive bombers and close to the ordnance of light bombers. They are far more survivable after they release the bombs - so why fly dedicated attack planes? Perking 1000 lbs on fighters will also reduce their use as kamikaze, unless they are willing to lose a few perks. Bombers and dive bombers stay as they are.

Remember, everything is perk free if you land.

And certain load configurations were definitely rare IRL. IE very few Corsair sorties actually flew with the two 1000lber and 8 HVAR loadout, (there was also the even rarer overload configuration which added a 2000lber on the center rack on short-range strikes) but guaranteed that's what you'll see 90% of F4U-1D on strike missions hauling in the game (the other 10% exchanges one bomb for a drop tank).
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 11, 2017, 01:21:12 PM
Just a time management/resource issue. Other things have been winning on the priority list.

HiTech


I hope that it gets revisited and put up higher on the priority list.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Tilt on July 12, 2017, 10:38:56 AM
big +1 for the OP and a slightly smaller +1 for the additional thought of perking bombs greater than 250kg on single engine fighters......

Perks are only lost if the AC does not land safely..............
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: Saxman on July 13, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
I'd also love to see this expanded to ammunition types. IE API for the US .50cals.
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: nugetx on July 15, 2017, 01:35:20 AM

I hope that it gets revisited and put up higher on the priority list.

+1

Please make gameplay improvements a top priority after steam or together with steam  :pray
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: atlau on July 15, 2017, 10:50:09 AM
big +1 for the OP and a slightly smaller +1 for the additional thought of perking bombs greater than 250kg on single engine fighters......

Perks are only lost if the AC does not land safely..............

Do we really need more bish B-38 raids?
Title: Re: Wish Revisit - Perked Ordnance
Post by: puller on July 15, 2017, 11:26:12 AM
+1

Please make gameplay improvements a top priority after steam or together with steam  :pray

You should play the game for more than 2 weeks before you start talking about game improvements...